Why do some People think Ulfric Stormcloak is Racist

[Lifts-Her-Tail]

OMG! I just noticed something ! Nordic Vampire Lord has the most negative ratings than any one else on the forums! even more than Jersey Dagmar! Holy s***!

 

[Crooksin]

I wasn't comparing Obama to anyone, I was comparing fallacies. You're right, actions do speak louder than words, you dismiss him as racist for what he hasn't done instead of what he has.

Yes, I understand that you were comparing fallacies but to compare one with Obama in it to counter someone's argument against Ulfric is a fallacy in itself. Vastly different circumstances, Ulfric has direct control over his people while Obama does not, so whatever Ulfric does or does not do reflects his own standards and/or beliefs. Not doing anything about it is considered doing something.

None of the Holds in Skyrim allow the Kajiit inside their walls, so does that make Elisif a racist? Balgruuf the Greater

That is a problem for Skyrim as a whole, concerning the entirety of the people, not just Ulfric. This thread is called "Why do you think Ulfric is racist", and that is why the Khajit and the Argonians are not brought up because he does not have direct control over all of Skyrim, does he?

The Thamor are practicing Eugenics, and yet somehow, they're not considered as racist, despite their stated goals to wipe out all of the Human Races, ruling over the lesser Elves, and enslaving the beast races.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone say positive things concerning The Thalmors policies and I certainly will agree 100% that they are by far the most racist faction in Tamriel. I can also see why its not brought up in a thread about Ulfric. Maybe you should make a new thread entitled, "Ulfric isn't that racist, the Thalmor are waaaaaaaay worse".

The Dunmer, the "victims" in this case enslaved the Argonians for centuries,

And this justifies the segregation of the Dunmer by Nords in what way? Two wrongs don't make a right, did they ever teach you that?

and their ancestors were at least complicit in the Genocide of the Dwemer (Ok, reports are fuzzy one what happened there) and yet the one man that is singled out as the Racist of Skyrim is also the one man who took in the Dunmer, because of their sub-standard living conditions

I don't know why you'd bring up the Dwemer like they were victims of anything considering they poisoned, blinded and enslaved Snow Elves (also fellow Mer to the Dunmer; now known as Falmor) until they were biologically unrecognizable. In any case, its silly to blame someone for something that there ancestors were responsible for.

He is singled out because that is what this thread is about, as it states and as I've reminded you. This thread is a troll product of discussion that was happening in the "Imperials vs Stormcloaks" thread, I'm not sure if you read that one at all but it also again explains why Ulfric is the one being "singled out". Comparing the Stormcloaks to the Empire, racism is bound to come up sometime.

stayed out of this debate for a while, knowing what a kneejerk irrational blame game it would be.

And clearly you've changed that pattern, huh?

Look at the rest of Windhelm, not just the Grey Quarter. This used to be the capitol of all of skyrim, the palace of the Kings was the official seat of all of the High kings. Now, it's just this side of Ruin. He's neglected his entire hold in his bid for the Jagged crown, all of his people are suffering, even the Nords. There's a serial killer snatching up young women, and leaving their bodies out in plain view. This is not Racism, it's neglect, otherwise the Dunmer would be singled out. And they are, by his men. He gave no such order. So again, what has he Done that is racist? All's I've seen him do actively concerning the Dunmer is let them in.

No doubt that Windhelm as a whole is a weak link amongst all the cities, at least in my perspective. Like I said earlier, this thread had come from the other Stormcloak vs Imperial thread and the OP was a Stormcloak sympathizer. As for being racist, he may not be directly, but he sure is indirectly. If you don't change a significantly racist policy in your own city, then you are just as racist as the person who put it there in the first place.

Now, I've said my peace, and I wash my hands of it. If apathy because "None of their problems affect the Nords" is considered high racism in a world of genocidal elves, and dragons enslaving all mortals for thousands of years, no amount of reason will convince you otherwise. Good day.

No one has said that Ulfric is more racist than the Thalmor, you'd have to be pretty dull to think that. What has been argued is that he is racist, the only comparison to him and the Thalmor has been from you and you alone. Like I said, the Thalmor/Dragons are extremely racist in their ideologies but also, this thread isn't about them. This would be one of them strawman arguments you were talking about earlier, yes?

I'm not "zeroed in" on the racism but when I see someone come in this thread and deny and justify Ulfric's blatant racist policies... its a little unsettling, especially with your particularly aggressive tone. Telling everyone that the Thalmor or the Dunmer have been proven to be more racist in their past doesn't magically make Ulfric's policies go away and is completely counter-productive in regards to the threads original purpose. However you may choose to perceive the racism is your choice, whether you don't think its that important is none of my concern in the context of this thread but to deny or justify its existence doesn't reflect positively on you.

Now, I certainly was not irrational in any of my posts and didn't attack you at any time so lets ease off the pretentiousness, shall we? I won't turn this "kneejerk irrational blame game" into a flame war which it seems is your focus.

 

[Raijin]

Yes, because every single Dark elf in windhelm is racist. One dunmer talks for all of them. Now you're blatantly assuming the worst in characters with no real backing on situations that don't happen. You're being ignorant if you think "Oh it's the dark elves fault everyone treats them like crap." That's like me saying all Nords deserve to be enslaved because galmar's brother represents them all and he'd not care if Ulfric died. The dark elves show support and respect to free winter, especially after the imperials take control and are overjoyed that things are now slowly improving.

I did not say that every single Dunmers of Windhelm are racist. Either you're intentionally putting words in my post or you simply misread what I wrote. I said "If you wanna see true racism in Windhelm go look at Ambarys Rendar." No I'm not ignorant. Rolff Stone-Fist asked the woman Dunmer why shes does not help the Stormcloaks and she response with "But we haven't taken a side because it's not our fight." to me that tells me that they're only concern is their own kind. Do you seriously think they give two plopss what the Thalmor are doing to the Nords? As long as they don't target the Dunmers they can rot for all they care.

 

[thatwudbryan]

Saying he isn't a racist just because he acts like one. Racism isn't all KKK and ranting hatred. If you could easily change the law to be more racially equal, but don't, it's racist. If you send guards to help your own people, but don't, it's racist. You acknowledge that Ulfric functions like this, yet it somehow it isn't racism to you.

Ulfric's neglect of the Dunmer and Argonians are no worse than the Empire's neglect of the deaths of those who openly worship Talos due to the Thalmor's gestapo-like actions. My bad though, Ulfric's a no-good-dirty-racist though right who only cares for himself and is why he's risking himself, his Hold and his people for their freedom and to bring Skyrim to what it once was. I hear ya

 

[thatwudbryan]

Yes, because every single Dark elf in windhelm is racist. One dunmer talks for all of them. Now you're blatantly assuming the worst in characters with no real backing on situations that don't happen. You're being ignorant if you think "Oh it's the dark elves fault everyone treats them like crap." That's like me saying all Nords deserve to be enslaved because galmar's brother represents them all and he'd not care if Ulfric died. The dark elves show support and respect to free winter, especially after the imperials take control and are overjoyed that things are now slowly improving.

Those first two sentences are what most against the Stormcloaks say in regards to Ulfric and his men. So can that stop being used as a debate point now???

 

[Raijin]

Ulfric's neglect of the Dunmer and Argonians are no worse than the Empire's neglect of the deaths of those who openly worship Talos due to the Thalmor's gestapo-like actions. My bad though, Ulfric's a no-good-dirty-racist though right who only cares for himself and is why he's risking himself, his Hold and his people for their freedom and to bring Skyrim to what it once was. I hear ya

Actually what the Mede II Empire did when they signed the treaty was far worst then what Ulfric is doing to the Dunmer and Argonians. At least the Dunmers and the Argonians aren't getting snatched up from their homes, and then taken to prisons over their religious beliefs. Their not getting murdered either. You would think that they would help out in the war, but no.

The dunmers and the Argonians all have work, and have shelters with beds to go to at night... What in the oblivion are they complaining about? How come nobody is making a big deal over the mistreatment of war veterans like Angrenor Once-Honored of windhelm, a former member of the Stormcloaks and Noster Eagle-Eye of Solitude, who was once a scout who fought in the great war , who both are now beggars and living in filth.

Something is terribly wrong with this picture.

 

[Star Gazer]

Ulfric doesn't like the dark elves because he is slightly paranoid, not racist. He seldom lets anyone other than nords take residence in Windhelm, and nobody likes the dark elves because they agree with/don't care about the outlawing of Talos worship. Talos is the god of man, and the mer think nothing of him.

Ulfric actually started out as a mercenary, looking to worship his own god. He served as a mercenary for Markarth because they were going to give him free worship in their hold. Ulfric held his part of the deal, but the thalmor wouldn't allow Markarth to give him free worship. It seems to me like Ulfric is just standing up for what he believes.

Cut the guy a break. If the elves took away your right to worship freely, would you not also be hesitant to allow them into your town and use your resources during a time of war? I completely agree with Ulfric! Windhelm should show equality to it's community, but he should not be branded as racist for putting his attention elsewhere.

 

[Raijin]

Ra-Horakhty will decapitate an Imperial soldiers head for each time he sees someone spilling out the notion that Ulfric is a racist

 

[thatwudbryan]

Actually what the Mede II Empire did when they signed the treaty was far worst then what Ulfric is doing to the Dunmer and Argonians. At least the Dunmers and the Argonians aren't getting snatched up from their homes, and then taken to prisons over their religious beliefs. Their not getting murdered either. You would think that they would help out in the war, but no.

The dunmers and the Argonians all have work, and have shelters with beds to go to at night... What in the oblivion are they complaining about? How come nobody is making a big deal over the mistreatment of war veterans like Angrenor Once-Honored of windhelm, a former member of the Stormcloaks and Noster Eagle-Eye of Solitude, who was once a scout who fought in the great war , who both are now beggars and living in filth.

Something is terribly wrong with this picture.

What!? The deaths of people who pray to Talos worse than Ulfric's 'racist fueled' neglect of the Dunmer and Argonians!?!? Two races (dunmer argonians) who have a nasty past relationship (slavery? racism) kept away from eachother (greyquarter, the docks) and not being treated 'nicely' worse than the deaths of those praying in the name of Talos!?!? PREPOSTEROUS!!! "Won't someone PLEASE think of the children!!!" Ridiculous

 

[Raijin]

What!? The deaths of people who pray to Talos worse than Ulfric's 'racist fueled' neglect of the Dunmer and Argonians!?!? Two races (dunmer argonians) who have a nasty past relationship (slavery? racism) kept away from eachother (greyquarter, the docks) and not being treated 'nicely' worse than the deaths of those praying in the name of Talos!?!? PREPOSTEROUS!!! "Won't someone PLEASE think of the children!!!" Ridiculous

Oh the humanity!

Flight from the Thalmor
by Hadrik Oaken-Heart
A written epitaph of a Nordic skald.​

Dearest reader: The work you are about to experience has been copied and duplicated, so that the story it relates can be spread throughout the Empire. But make no mistake - this is not a work of fiction. The events chronicled in this account are all true, were originally documented in a private journal (which now remains safely guarded in the House of Quills in Hammerfell) and occurred not more than a year before this book was printed.​

- Ashad Ibn Khaled, High Scribe, House of Quills, Hammerfell​

It's been nine days. Nine days since I slipped my bonds. Nine days since I strangled my captor with my own chains. And nine days since I rushed headlong into the night, always listening, but never looking back.​

But in order to understand my current predicament, one must first understand where I came from, and just where this story began.​

My name is Hadrik Oaken-Heart, and I am a proud Nord of Skyrim. I am a skald by trade, and received my formal training at the Bards College in Solitude. For years, I made my occupation as a traveling musician and minstrel, and even served several stints as war-bard in service to the armies of the various Jarls.​

And it's fairly safe to say that if I weren't a bard, I never would have gotten into this mess to begin with.​

My troubles began when I first started singing about Talos, the Ninth and greatest Divine, beloved of the people of Skyrim. Turns out, he's not so beloved by the Thalmor.​

Ah yes, the Thalmor. As common as a head cold in Skyrim these days, and just as annoying. Or so I thought at the time, before their true power and inlfuence [sic] made itself known.​

For those not in the know, the Thalmor are Skyrim's recently honored "guests" - high elves of the Aldmeri Dominion who were gracious enough not to wipe us all out during the Great War.​

But, as every Nord of Skyrim knows, Thalmor graciousness comes at a terrible price. One of the stipulations of the White-Gold Concordat - the peace treaty between our peoples - was the abolishment of Talos worship. A man ascend to godhood? Preposterous, claim the Thalmor. And so, the open worship of Talos has been outlawed in Skyrim, and actively enforced in those cities where the Thalmor have a tangible presence. Cities, I might add, in which the Empire has the most secure foothold.​

It was in one of these cities - Markarth, to be exact - where I made the conscious decision to defy the ban on Talos worship. And my defiance came in the form of - what else? - a song. For what bard who has spent time writing and rehearsing an original work can possible refrain from performing it? So perform it I did. Not once, not twice, but seven times. Once a day, for an entire week.​

Now here's something most of my kinsman are unaware of: not all Thalmor in Skyrim are equal in station, or purpose. In fact, there is one group in particular that operates secretly, in the shadows - watching and waiting for those Nords who break the law, and continue their worship of almighty Talos. These are the Justiciars, and it is their job to enforce this, the most terrible of conditions of the White-Gold Concordat.​

And so, I would have performed my song for an eighth time had I been given the opportunity. Sadly, I was not. For the Justiciars had been watching, had been waiting. Instead, I received a black sack over my head in the wee hours of the morning, a dreadfully uncomfortable wagon ride, and sinister promises that I would enjoy my "new home," which I came to realize was some sort of secret Thalmor prison or detention camp. One I was certain I would never leave alive.​

It was at that moment I realized I needed to make my escape. No matter what - even if I died in the attempt - I had to slip the grasp of my captors. Better that than rot in some godsforsaken Thalmor jail until the end of time.​

I finally got my chance when the wagon stopped, and we made camp for the night. One of my two Thalmor guards set off into the forest to hunt, leaving me alone with the other. And so, my account comes full circle.​

It is now nine days later, and in that time, I have realized the true extent of my foolishness. I couldn't have sung the song just once? Or maybe twice? Or not at all? I couldn't have swallowed my stubborn Nord pride and realized just how much power and influence the Thalmor truly have over the Jarls?​

No. I could not. So now I run. Like a hare from the hound, I run. Always moving, rarely resting, never sleeping. But the Thalmor dog my every move. Where will I go? How will I escape their grasp? I honestly don't know. The only thing I now understand for certain is this: if the agents of the Aldmeri Dominion cannot have your soul, then they will take your very life.​

My name is Hadrik Oaken-Heart, and I am a proud Nord of Skyrim. Remember me. For soon I will be dead.​

Now tell me how bad the Dunmers and the Argonians has it in Windhelm while the nords are being slaughtered from left to right over worshiping talos.

 

[Janus3003]

ca;dr*

*center-aligned; didn't read

 

[Raijin]

The Dunmers (Except for the one that owns the farm) and the Argonians of Windhelm are nothing more than MOOOOOOOOOCHERS!

While Ulfric is trying to save his people from the thalmor their more concern about their living conditions.

I say Ulfric should evict everyone from their homes and give it to the Dunmers and the Argonian. That's the right thing to do.

 

[Veezara]

Hes the best guy with the best personality in the Game. His Bodyguard Galmar might be but Ulfric is not. Hes a Revolutionary fighting for his Country and Freedom hes like our Founding Fathers hes trying to get his Country to be free from a curropt and dying Empire also like our Founding Fathers did. There are ALOT of parallels between our Revolutionary war and Skyrims War, And The Revolutionary Militia and The Stormcloaks. All the Empire wants to do is take Skyrims Resources and tell them what to do and take away their Freedom also like the British did.

The reason why the Empire signed the treaty is because they were hurt they needed time to regroup and get more recources so they can defeat the Dominion.
Comparing Ulfric to the founding fathers is
not "right", all Ulfric wants is to be High King of Skyrim (that is all he talks about) The Founding Fathers wanted freedom from Great Britain because of all the nonsense they were throwing on to the colonies(unnecessary taxes and stuff). You try to compare the Skyrim Civil War with the American Civil War. The rebels wanted to depart from the union and to become their own country(like the stormcloaks) and the Empire is like the union, they are trying to stay together and be one big country in case they are attacked. My point is that Stormcloak just wants to be High King and hates everyone but Nords.

 

[Docta Corvina]

The Dunmers (Except for the one that owns the farm) and the Argonians of Windhelm are nothing more than MOOOOOOOOOCHERS!

While Ulfric is trying to save his people from the thalmor their more concern about their living conditions.

I say Ulfric should evict everyone from their homes and give it to the Dunmers and the Argonian. That's the right thing to do.

*looks through file cabinet of forum debate responses* .... *flips through tabbed folders* .... *after much flipping, stops* Ah yes, here it is! *grabs folder titled 'The Lazy Dunmer/Mooching Dunmer/Mooching Non-Nord Argument'*

So, what exactly constitutes 'mooching'? Because if you mean simply that they're not actively supporting his war, then there are certainly more 'moochers' in Windhelm than just the Dunmer and Argonians.

You trying to tell me that Ulfric is just letting a bunch of squatters hang about in his city, in those Gray Quarter residences no less? That would be one of the quickest ways to go after them, really. All legal-like. Or as close to legal-like as we could hope to get in a place like Tamriel. Plus, I hardly think he'd sooner allow Nord squatters and homeless persons (Silda, I'm looking at you) than Dunmer ones. In other words, if the Dunmer aren't paying rent or otherwise earning their keep with the measly wages they get in the jobs they're allowed to have, I highly doubt we'd even see them in the Gray Quarter at this point. Methinks there would have been some eviction notices signed. Toss out the Dunmer, put in people like Silda the Unseen or one of his own former men, Angrenor. He IS Jarl after all.

Bottom line is that there's nothing to indicate that they're not earning their keep there. Their presence in Windhelm predates the current conflict. You can choose to believe they inherited the fight and necessity to support it, but if that were truly the case, Windhelm itself wouldn't contain Nords with conflicting views on rightful allegiance.

 

[Ivory]

I did not say that every single Dunmers of Windhelm are racist. Either you're intentionally putting words in my post or you simply misread what I wrote. I said "If you wanna see true racism in Windhelm go look at Ambarys Rendar." No I'm not ignorant. Rolff Stone-Fist asked the woman Dunmer why shes does not help the Stormcloaks and she response with "But we haven't taken a side because it's not our fight." to me that tells me that they're only concern is their own kind. Do you seriously think they give two plopss what the Thalmor are doing to the Nords? As long as they don't target the Dunmers they can rot for all they care.

Must I really go back to my point with WWII? It's been stated by Malborn who you can find in windhelm after his quest that he plans to go to morrowind where he's safer from the Thalmor because they don't take kindly to the Thalmor. And spoiler here for the new DLC

Spoiler

There is a group of Thalmor you slaughter on solsthiem who are hiding out in morrowind and doing illegal acts there.

The truth is who cares if the Dark elves don't support or don't care about the war? It really isn't their fight. Against the Thalmor and a civil war between humans are two totally different wars. The dark elves are living their lives after the annihilation of their home by natural causes and argonian invasion. You really think dunmer who fled want to die for a Nordic war where the Jarl and leader of the rebellion neglects them? I'm sorry but that's not the way to win troops to your side. They are neither for nor against the empire. Like a certain Nord we all know. Balgruuf. Before the civil war questline he is neutral. He's on the side of Whiterun. Does tha make him a traitor to his own people? No. The people living in Whiterun are content with their lives and the guards are willing to protect that.

Even if the Dunmer joined the civil war, who's side do you think they will be on? In the US's own civil war, who's side did the African's take? If anything be greatful the dunmer haven't joined any side at all, that would mean more men for the empire.

 

[Docta Corvina]

Even if the Dunmer joined the civil war, who's side do you think they will be on? In the US's own civil war, who's side did the African's take? If anything be greatful the dunmer haven't joined any side at all, that would mean more men for the empire.

To linger briefly on the US Civil War point, we should also remember that even those slaves who fought for the South - perhaps having been promised freedom post-war - were technically free but many realistically still faced many barriers to living a basic, normal life. They faced local "legal" barriers, threats, intimidation and bodily injury (and yes, murder) from those who did not take too kindly at their change in status (as per the Emancipation Proclamation, the 13th amendment, and the end of the war). Some of the US population flatly rejected human equality of the Africans and their descendants on a strictly racial basis, and such attitudes didn't vanish even among some in the North just because some black men picked up arms and fought valiantly for the Union. As a result, Reconstruction was a violent, greatly tense period of our history. Some say it was merely "mismanaged" by the government, but the point still stands that even if the Dunmer were to take Ulfric's side, it promises them nothing. They have no historical basis to trust Ulfric and his administration. They do what they can where they are now to get by day to day, indeed some openly bitter and others keeping their heads down. They are making their way in the city the same way that Stormcloak sympathizers are making theirs in Imperial-siding towns.

 

[Captain Nagisus]

Actually what the Mede II Empire did when they signed the treaty was far worst then what Ulfric is doing to the Dunmer and Argonians. At least the Dunmers and the Argonians aren't getting snatched up from their homes, and then taken to prisons over their religious beliefs. Their not getting murdered either. You would think that they would help out in the war, but no.

The dunmers and the Argonians all have work, and have shelters with beds to go to at night... What in the oblivion are they complaining about? How come nobody is making a big deal over the mistreatment of war veterans like Angrenor Once-Honored of windhelm, a former member of the Stormcloaks and Noster Eagle-Eye of Solitude, who was once a scout who fought in the great war , who both are now beggars and living in filth.

Something is terribly wrong with this picture.

I don't think you've ever been inside the Argonian Assemblage. They take the locks off around 8 pm, you can get inside if you're quick. It's a massive. Bloody. Pile. Of crap. And have you ever just spent a day looking at the schedule of the Argonians there? Get up horribly early. Start work at 6 am and work for the next 14 hours. Go into the hell-hole that's barely nice enough to be an Assemblage. Work some more keeping the Assemblage looking even slightly nice. Sleep. Repeat. There's one of them I bet you've never seen. He's a skooma addict wearing rags who never even leaves, he just spends all his time feeling sorry for his eggbrothers and keeping the fire burning. If you had just left your house, which had burned down in a fire, and went to your neighbours - because they're the nearest place to go to - to ask for help, and they threw you into a cellar, forcing you to work all day and sleep on horrible beds - and then they asked for your signature on a petition that would not help you, but would only help them - would you sign it?

And I assume, from what you've said next, you're basically the opposite of one of the Thalmor. "Argonians working long, tireless hours in unfair conditions? Bah, let them figure it out for themselves. But oh my goodness! VETERAN HUMANS are begging on the streets! LET'S GIVE THEM ALL OUR MONEY!" The Argonians live in filth too. There's not much difference between the Assemblage, and the streets of Windhelm at night. Both are dank, disgusting, and scary.

 

[Stigweard Ruadhan]

Nords are the superior race...it's not as cogent or eloquent an argument as many have ventured thus far, but it is my opinion.

Being a Nord and all...

 

[Captain Nagisus]

Nords are the superior race...it's not as cogent or eloquent an argument as many have ventured thus far, but it is my opinion.

Being a Nord and all...

And in my opinion, Argonians are the best race. Though we do look wimpy when we punch. It looks a bit like a slap, when in reality, it's a scratch, because of our claws.

 

[thatwudbryan]

Must I really go back to my point with WWII? It's been stated by Malborn who you can find in windhelm after his quest that he plans to go to morrowind where he's safer from the Thalmor because they don't take kindly to the Thalmor. And spoiler here for the new DLC

Spoiler

There is a group of Thalmor you slaughter on solsthiem who are hiding out in morrowind and doing illegal acts there.

The truth is who cares if the Dark elves don't support or don't care about the war? It really isn't their fight. Against the Thalmor and a civil war between humans are two totally different wars. The dark elves are living their lives after the annihilation of their home by natural causes and argonian invasion. You really think dunmer who fled want to die for a Nordic war where the Jarl and leader of the rebellion neglects them? I'm sorry but that's not the way to win troops to your side. They are neither for nor against the empire. Like a certain Nord we all know. Balgruuf. Before the civil war questline he is neutral. He's on the side of Whiterun. Does tha make him a traitor to his own people? No. The people living in Whiterun are content with their lives and the guards are willing to protect that.

Even if the Dunmer joined the civil war, who's side do you think they will be on? In the US's own civil war, who's side did the African's take? If anything be greatful the dunmer haven't joined any side at all, that would mean more men for the empire.

Not a winner. How are dunmer refugee's any different from RL immigrants who come to the US??? Do they just waltz over here, get treated as 'equals', live in nice fancy houses and have jobs that require little to no work and have great pay??? NO. Not at all. They struggle to get by, get treated like plops just from what stereotypes make them out to be and work hard manual labor jobs and get paid dirt while the higher ups bark orders and get to eat lobster for dinner. Thats just the way things are, terrible but true. On the flip side the truth is why should Ulfric care for the dunmer when they refuse to help the cause and secretly side with the Empire? Two sides to the coin, the dunmer and imperials aint saints, as most would like to believe. In regards to past standing policies against 'non-nords' in Windhelm, take those RL parralells as you will, see what you come up with. Terrible as it may be, it is justified (sorta). How bout the Khajiit??? NO ONE lets them in Holds. Why??? Their 'reputation' of being thieves and drug trafficers, being stereotyped basically. By EVERYONE not a Khajiit. Not just Ulfric. Again take the RL paralells with that and keep spouting that Ulfric is the only 'bad meanie racist' gunk. I agree with the Balgruuf part though, take out the neglect of the dunmer and argonians well-being and Ulfric is as close to Balgruuf than anyone in the empire could ever Hope to be. A F'in boss who has no allegience other than to his people. The Empire? "Awaiting your command sir." -No thanks