Why do some People think Ulfric Stormcloak is Racist

[Captain Nagisus]

Not a winner. How are dunmer refugee's any different from RL immigrants who come to the US??? Do they just waltz over here, get treated as 'equals', live in nice fancy houses and have jobs that require little to no work and have great pay??? NO. Not at all. They struggle to get by, get treated like pl*** just from what stereotypes make them out to be and work hard manual labor jobs and get paid dirt while the higher ups bark orders and get to eat lobster for dinner. Thats just the way things are, terrible but true. On the flip side the truth is why should Ulfric care for the dunmer when they refuse to help the cause and secretly side with the Empire? Two sides to the coin, the dunmer and imperials aint saints, as most would like to believe. In regards to past standing policies against 'non-nords' in Windhelm, take those RL parralells as you will, see what you come up with. Terrible as it may be, it is justified (sorta). How bout the Khajiit??? NO ONE lets them in Holds. Why??? Their 'reputation' of being thieves and drug trafficers, being stereotyped basically. By EVERYONE not a Khajiit. Not just Ulfric. Again take the RL paralells with that and keep spouting that Ulfric is the only 'bad meanie racist' gunk. I agree with the Balgruuf part though, take out the neglect of the dunmer and argonians well-being and Ulfric is as close to Balgruuf than anyone in the empire could ever Hope to be. A F'in boss who has no allegience other than to his people. The Empire? "Awaiting your command sir." -No thanks

Quotes or it didn't happen.

 

[thatwudbryan]

Quotes or it didn't happen.

Ulfric's racism: Quotes or it didn't happen.

Lookin like Steve Nash in his primes there Captain.

 

[Captain Nagisus]

Ulfric's racism: Quotes or it didn't happen.

Lookin like Steve Nash in his primes there Captain.

Fine, let's change it to examples or it didn't happen. Because I have plenty of examples, if not direct quotes, of Ulfric's blatant racism. Give me one example of a Dark elf conspiring with the empire.

 

[thatwudbryan]

Fine, let's change it to examples or it didn't happen. Because I have plenty of examples, if not direct quotes, of Ulfric's blatant racism. Give me one example of a Dark elf conspiring with the empire.

Imperial officer gear in the home of a dark elf, in Stormcloak territory. Lucky Ulfric aint all gestapo and has his men regularly 'check' the homes of the dunmer that he 'hates' and distrusts, thats what I'd expect a paranoid KKK-esque racist to do if 'outsiders' lived in their town.

 

[Captain Nagisus]

Imperial officer gear in the home of a dark elf, in Stormcloak territory. Lucky Ulfric aint all gestapo and has his men regularly 'check' the homes of the dunmer that he 'hates' and distrusts, thats what I'd expect a paranoid KKK-esque racist to do if 'outsiders' lived in their town.

That Imperial Armour belongs to Adelaisa Vendicci. She stays at that Cornerclub, it's just her property. Ulfric seems perfectly fine with an East Empire Company employee in his city.

 

[Ivory]

Not a winner. How are dunmer refugee's any different from RL immigrants who come to the US??? Do they just waltz over here, get treated as 'equals', live in nice fancy houses and have jobs that require little to no work and have great pay??? NO. Not at all. They struggle to get by, get treated like pl*** just from what stereotypes make them out to be and work hard manual labor jobs and get paid dirt while the higher ups bark orders and get to eat lobster for dinner. Thats just the way things are, terrible but true.

Bud if you're going to compare real situations like I am, do your basics first. You -can not- compare two different forms of government by the same policies at all. There is no comparison when its easy to go between the different boarders of Tamriel compared to the US boarders. Considering I grew up about an hour if not less from the Texas Mexican border, there is no comparison to be made.

On the flip side the truth is why should Ulfric care for the dunmer when they refuse to help the cause and secretly side with the Empire?

Again. The Dunmer have NO alligence to either side. I made an example, don't take what I said as a truth that's not there.

Two sides to the coin, the dunmer and imperials aint saints, as most would like to believe. In regards to past standing policies against 'non-nords' in Windhelm, take those RL parralells as you will, see what you come up with. Terrible as it may be, it is justified (sorta). How bout the Khajiit??? NO ONE lets them in Holds. Why??? Their 'reputation' of being thieves and drug trafficers, being stereotyped basically. By EVERYONE not a Khajiit. Not just Ulfric

when did I ever say imperials and dunmer were saints? Imperials have done much wrong just as the dunmer have. Just as the Falmer did, just as the Nords did. Just as the Altmer did and dwemer and Argonians and Khajiit. Everyone has done wrong, by your logic then who my friend is deserving in this fantasy world of yours? This ideal of "Well they aren't worth anything because of a bad past" is what's wrong with people today.

Again take the RL paralells with that and keep spouting that Ulfric is the only 'bad meanie racist' gunk. I agree with the Balgruuf part though, take out the neglect of the dunmer and argonians well-being and Ulfric is as close to Balgruuf than anyone in the empire could ever Hope to be. A F'in boss who has no allegience other than to his people. The Empire? "Awaiting your command sir." -No thanks

Again, when did I say Ulfric was entirely evil? Never. Stop assuming. I played for the stormcloaks for my very first play through on skyrim. As a Khajiit no less. I can see the passion of freedom, the urge of safety in his heart. But his bias views of the other races makes him an intolerant leader and horrible one at that. Ulfric is not evil, but he's no saint either. Nobody is a saint in this universe unless they've never killed in their life.

Also, just because somebody agrees with me, don't take it as an insult because my post got a winner. These are all opinions and if someone rates me winner or disagree, what's it matter? Chill out buddy. This is a discussion/debate. Not a personal attack on anyone here.

 

[Prometheus100c]

That Imperial Armour belongs to Adelaisa Vendicci. She stays at that Cornerclub, it's just her property. Ulfric seems perfectly fine with an East Empire Company employee in his city.

About that, i've never understood what's really going on there. What are those imperials doing down the corner of windhelm?

 

[thatwudbryan]

That Imperial Armour belongs to Adelaisa Vendicci. She stays at that Cornerclub, it's just her property. Ulfric seems perfectly fine with an East Empire Company employee in his city.

Well money does talk. How are you sure thats her gear though? Since were playing the 'proof or it never happened' game, I'd like written proof of such

 

[Captain Nagisus]

Well money does talk. How are you sure thats her gear though? Since were playing the 'proof or it never happened' game, I'd like written proof of such

An East Empire Company employee who wears Imperial Heavy Armour is staying at the Cornerclub.

There is a set of Imperial Heavy Armour in the Cornerclub.

Can YOU manage on one set of clothes?

 

[Chowder138]

Racism is natural!
And i think the creators of the game created that hatred against others from basic human psychology.
'' This is mine, go away or i'll kill you'' thinking - The reptilian complex.
We can all sit here and discuss whether racism is a bad thing or good, but the thing is if stormcloacks weren't racists they wouldn't keep much longer as a people. They needed that bounding - the people.
Just as Hitler used to tell that all germans speaking countries - people should ''group up'' against the real enemy!


Funny thing is that Stormcloacks don't mind using other races as their slaves but they hate to obey to the empire. Smells WW2 enthusiasm from the game creators. Maybe we will see german tanks rolling in the field next time?


Die germanische volk bist zu mächtig!

What the hell did I just read?

 

[Captain Nagisus]

About that, i've never understood what's really going on there. What are those imperials doing down the corner of windhelm?

It's the East Empire Company, they're a trading company who, quite obviously, specialise in the East of Tamriel e.g. Morrowind, Black Marsh, Skyrim, etc. Since they're a (mostly, I mean, just look at Rise in the East, those buggers were tough) non-aggressive trading company who are only taking SUPPLIES to Windhelm and nothing more, I don't think Ulfric has any quarrels.

 

[thatwudbryan]

An East Empire Company employee who wears Imperial Heavy Armour is staying at the Cornerclub.

There is a set of Imperial Heavy Armour in the Cornerclub.

Can YOU manage on one set of clothes?

Yeah but I'm a dirty bum

 

[Captain Nagisus]

Yeah but I'm a dirty bum

I have no valid response, therefore I rest my case.

 

[thatwudbryan]

Bud if you're going to compare real situations like I am, do your basics first. You -can not- compare two different forms of government by the same policies at all. There is no comparison when its easy to go between the different boarders of Tamriel compared to the US boarders. Considering I grew up about an hour if not less from the Texas Mexican border, there is no comparison to be made.


Again. The Dunmer have NO alligence to either side. I made an example, don't take what I said as a truth that's not there.

when did I ever say imperials and dunmer were saints? Imperials have done much wrong just as the dunmer have. Just as the Falmer did, just as the Nords did. Just as the Altmer did and dwemer and Argonians and Khajiit. Everyone has done wrong, by your logic then who my friend is deserving in this fantasy world of yours? This ideal of "Well they aren't worth anything because of a bad past" is what's wrong with people today.

Again, when did I say Ulfric was entirely evil? Never. Stop assuming. I played for the stormcloaks for my very first play through on skyrim. As a Khajiit no less. I can see the passion of freedom, the urge of safety in his heart. But his bias views of the other races makes him an intolerant leader and horrible one at that. Ulfric is not evil, but he's no saint either. Nobody is a saint in this universe unless they've never killed in their life.

Also, just because somebody agrees with me, don't take it as an insult because my post got a winner. These are all opinions and if someone rates me winner or disagree, what's it matter? Chill out buddy. This is a discussion/debate. Not a personal attack on anyone here.

Haha lets throw that political/policies mumbojumbo out the window, thats just used to dillude the Truth anyway, in RL or in virtual reality. We're talkin how immigrants are treated in RL and in Skyrim, not the policies, the similar conditions in how they are treated. You don't see similarities??? Must be blinded by policies and laws and what your told. There is a comparison to be made, immigrants are universally treated like garbage, you may or may not know or understand this, thats fine. The nords POV is 'you're with Skyrim, or against it." The dunmer are taking the latter. My bad, most make the SC's out to be undisputed villains and the empire an unblemeshed 'love everyone' type a deal, I call BS on that. Yes everyone has done wrong, you just gotta dig deep and see whose cause is just and pure. N don't take that so personally man, I'm just stating my POV's like you said, one of which was that post wasn't a winner. 'Tuck Rule' mentality I wanna see a real win know what I mean?

 

[Ivory]

Haha lets throw that political/policies mumbojumbo out the window, thats just used to dillude the Truth anyway, in RL or in virtual reality. We're talkin how immigrants are treated in RL and in Skyrim, not the policies, the similar conditions in how they are treated. You don't see similarities??? Must be blinded by policies and laws and what your told. There is a comparison to be made, immigrants are universally treated like garbage, you may or may not know or understand this, thats fine. The nords POV is 'you're with Skyrim, or against it." The dunmer are taking the latter. My bad, most make the SC's out to be undisputed villains and the empire an unblemeshed 'love everyone' type a deal, I call BS on that. Yes everyone has done wrong, you just gotta dig deep and see whose cause is just and pure. N don't take that so personally man, I'm just stating my POV's like you said, one of which was that post wasn't a winner. 'Tuck Rule' mentality I wanna see a real win know what I mean?

I do see similarities. Not enough to justify a comparison for one basic reason that you cannot deny.

Everyone in Tamriel is a citizen of Tamriel. They are unified under the empire created by Tiber Septim. There is no 'immigrant' in Tamriel or skyrim. Outsiders yes, but they are still Citizens and should be treated as such. They are only outsiders in the way a Texan like myself is an outsider of Utah. Refrain from insulting my intelligence by saying I believe everything I'm told. You're far too heated right now in this debate and until you relax, I'll see fit to ignore your posts. You're not going to even help your own side if you keep delving into personal attacks.

 

[Docta Corvina]

Thing is, "immigrants" aren't universally treated "like garbage" in Skyrim. The only ones who are universally treated a certain way as far as barriers based on race alone are the Khajiit - unless I'm overlooking someone. Well, them and the Falmer, which seem to be reviled by pretty much everyone. But in any case, Windhelm is the only city in Skyrim to have the race-based segregation of Dunmer and Argonians on the books, as far as I know. If I'm honestly missing something in the lore that runs counter to that, then someone please point me to it so I am aware.

Even Riften, which is run (until the Imperials win) by Stormcloak-sympathizing Laila Law-Giver does not have such laws on the books regarding the Dunmer "immigrants". Let's not forget Riften lies on the eastern side of Skyrim and as such, it was one of the first places escaping Dunmer would have encountered. The geography informs the situation to some degree. Some of the Dunmer there complain that their lives aren't great and would like to maybe return to Mournhold, etc. But they're not the only ones in the town complaining about the bleak economic situation there.

Windhelm is unique - and for unfortunately not-so-great reasons.

 

[Prometheus100c]

What the hell did I just read?

I'm a romantic

 

[Chowder138]

Haha lets throw that political/policies mumbojumbo out the window, thats just used to dillude the Truth anyway, in RL or in virtual reality. We're talkin how immigrants are treated in RL and in Skyrim, not the policies, the similar conditions in how they are treated. You don't see similarities??? Must be blinded by policies and laws and what your told. There is a comparison to be made, immigrants are universally treated like garbage, you may or may not know or understand this, thats fine. The nords POV is 'you're with Skyrim, or against it." The dunmer are taking the latter. My bad, most make the SC's out to be undisputed villains and the empire an unblemeshed 'love everyone' type a deal, I call BS on that. Yes everyone has done wrong, you just gotta dig deep and see whose cause is just and pure. N don't take that so personally man, I'm just stating my POV's like you said, one of which was that post wasn't a winner. 'Tuck Rule' mentality I wanna see a real win know what I mean?

You're right. In real life, there is no good or bad. There is only a grey area.

 

[Prometheus100c]

It's the East Empire Company, they're a trading company who, quite obviously, specialise in the East of Tamriel e.g. Morrowind, Black Marsh, Skyrim, etc. Since they're a (mostly, I mean, just look at Rise in the East, those buggers were tough) non-aggressive trading company who are only taking SUPPLIES to Windhelm and nothing more, I don't think Ulfric has any quarrels.

Well i know, i've done the quest. But what i really don't understand is why Ulfric doesn't take over the east empire company. He could then stop the empire from geting resources.
And the resources could then go to Winhelm, or sold to others, more money for Ulfric?

I just don't see the logic..

 

[Ivory]

Well i know, i've done the quest. But what i really don't understand is why Ulfric doesn't take over the east empire company. He could then stop the empire from geting resources.
And the resources could then go to Winhelm, or sold to others, more money for Ulfric?

I just don't see the logic..

It's main base is in solitude.