NoI didn't I simply pointed out that it's no less problematic
Yes, you did. You said,
Regardless of whether it is solely, partially, or not at all race based it's no less irrational and therefore no more laudable than racism and in the end it does little to differentiate how one evaluates the character of a person, especially if the xenophobia is partially or wholly based on race or ancestry.
I wasn't arguing with you about how to evaluate Ulfric morally; you mentioned how xenophobia, regardless of its basis (which is also debatable) is just as awful as racism as if to strengthen your points. The argument was
whether or not Ulfric was a racist or a xenophobe, not
whether or not he was morally righteous.
I'm observing actual things that go on in the game that support the notion that he's racist while the only things you attempt to rely upon are observations about the game that you can't even link to the situation of the Dunmer in Windhelm other than by using pure speculation with no sound logical basis to do so other than try to bridge that rather large gap to support a weak position refuted by the game lore.
I disagree. I don't think you observe actual things in the game that support the notion that he's racist, as much as you misunderstand the differences between the terms of "racism"; "xenophobia"; perhaps let's throw "nationalism" in the mix. By the way, that was a
long run-on sentence.
This does absolutely nothing to refute the fact that the Dunmer are the only group that have enforced segregated living arrangements and that it's based on their race.
It refutes that there is no other character in the game who can refute the basis on which the Dunmer were "segregated". It also refutes that there is an imaginary "population" of Altmer "in" the city (isn't she the only one "in" the city?). Are there any Bosmer, Orc, or anything besides human elements in that city for the most part besides the LARGE population of Dunmer refugees?
No it doesn't. The government in each hold is a feudal monarchy. Any policies and laws of the Hold other than those prevailing as Imperial law are by will of the Jarl and the Jarl alone and the acquisition of residence is also by will of the Jarl as illustrated by the fact that the Jarl or his or her Steward have the sole authority to grant your character a home in a capital city.
You become easily confused. Earlier you said that the Dunmer have lived in Windhelm for generations (I can't find this, but I can use it). Where did they originally live when they first arrived, generations before Ulfric was born? Did they live in the houses occupied by the other families of Windhelm or were they put in a part of the city unoccupied so that they could be protected as refugees? Now, if Ulfric was born
after they moved into the city, assuming that have always been relegated to the slums, why does it make
so much sense that when he become Jarl he suddenly elected to segregate them? It's much more likely that this segregation existed before he was Jarl, and he is just continuing to allow it, albeit ignoring them for the war and for Nords. Again, not racist as much as negligent of
anyone but Nords. Unfortunately for the Dunmer, they are the primary Non-nord race, and they are also refugees from Morrowind. This is why the "segregation" stands out so much.
She says nothing of the sort. All she is doing is expressing her opinion that if the Dunmer were more clever and practical they might find a way of turning around their situation.
She said
"The Dunmer are too proud and naive to see the way things truly are, and so they continue to dwell in that slum." Either way, she is
THE other elven citizen who potentially falls under "racism" category, and she describes how she avoided it prejudice, and how they did not. Whether this is opinion, or intelligent observation on her part is not understood no matter how much "lore" you gather (And we all know you are a champion of lore).
Elves of the Aldmeri Dominion are Altmer and Bosmer and the Thalmor are only Altmer. The actions of the Thalmor bear no relevance in how the Dunmer are perceived. The fact that the Altmer aren't treated with suspicion at all by the Nords of Windhelm also completely dismisses this notion as has been pointed out to you before.
My argument never mentioned the Aldmeri Dominion. Nords are distrustful of all elven kinds. Which Altmer? Niranye? She
was treated with suspicion.
I have presented as solid evidence as necessary and it's very tellng that you completely ignored the content of my post which does so. I have provided a dialogue which flatly states that the Dunmer are forced to live the Gray Quarter. I've also relied upon the fact that it predates any of the non-existent non race based reasons you've attempted to fabricate. I've also pointed out why it's existence can't be explained away by notions of suspicion or cultural contamination and can only be explained in terms of being based on their race.
You're right; Tamriel is a planet lolwhut and a lot of the other hypocritical speculation you draw from the game experience (and then insult me for my own observations) definitely belongs under "
solid evidence". Who forced them to live there? I already said Ulfric wasn't born when you claimed they reached the city. During that time they were obviously still ghetto-based. So, you can observe that as "Yeah, he doesn't care about them" or "Yeah he's a filthy racist for not caring about them" that latter of which is fallacious.
It does nothing of the sort. The fact that xenophobia in and of itself may be based on many things does absolutely nothing to support your flimsy argument that the xenophobia regarding the Dunmer of Windhlem is anything but race based.
I already explained why it does.... about twice. This doesn't do away with my premise at all.
That's a completely illogical position to take. You don't have to believe that Ulfric is a racist to accept the fact that if Ulfric was actually concerned with the Dunmer contaminating Nord culture he wouldn't allow them to roam freely in the city as forcing them to live in the Gray Quarter does nothing to address a concern about cultural contamination. Nor do you have to accept that he's a racist to accept the fact that there's no concern about the Altmer residents of Windhelm doing the same even though there's an undeniable concern by the people of the Empire in general that the Thalmor present a very real threat to the cultures of all the provinces of the Empire. What you do have to do to not accept these facts is engage in willful blindness to what the game presents to you which is why I accurately state that you ignore game content as part of your attempts to support your weak positions.
You also don't have to be convinced that Ulfric is a an "absolute filthy" racist. There's nothing in the game that indicates he is an extreme racist or that it's a dominant core aspect of his personality, but he owns the segregation policies that he enforces and it's inaccurate to claim that the game doesn't attribute that relatively mild racist characteristic to him.
He clearly continues the segregation policies but most likely because he doesn't care about the situation. Whereas that
depicts racism, it does not
make him racist. What can he do to influence the autonomy of his other
"racist" citizens?
You have yet to present any basis from the game that supports any of your notions. Your arguments to the exent that you've tried to point to game content are either distortions of game content or are generic and can't be linked to anything that's going on in Windhelm which renders them valueless as support for your positions, especially in light of the fact that there is game content that directly supports and establishes that the segregation of the Dunmer in Windhelm is based on their race.
If you had attended
all of my points instead of picking ones you thought you could run-on-sentence away, maybe you would be more inclined to understand the logical basis for my notions. Maybe you do understand and you're stubbornly insisting that there is only one absolute answer, or you misunderstand in general.
When you take unintelligent positions and they get picked apart as such that's not mockery of your intelligence but taking them as an affront to the same simply because they are not given undeserved reverence or respect is a characteristic of pretentiousness.
But your positions are even more unintelligent, and yet I am not foolishly and pretentiously mocking them as being "without intelligence" when I have understanding of the concept of unique experiences, and gray areas of potentially endless points-of-view thrown at each other. You attempt to insult those with whom you engage in E-video-game arguments because they have a difference of opinion. I'm
further impressed that you dare call me "pretentious" when it absolutely defines you from first letter to last end statement. Thank goodness you have an established cheering crowd for your classy debating methods full of content (half of which is a long run-on sentence attempting to deconstruct me as a character, rather than my argument) and
flawless arguments.
