Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[NENALATA]

Anouck


No I get it. That's kool. Have fun.

- However this is not me saying I agree with you because I assure you I don't. I do understand though. Also, having alot of knowledge about the Empire is great however Legionaires are better, if you truly care anything for the Empire.


To No One in Particular, you know... it's about time I pick a side here. Because I admit, I've been all over the board and my frequent flyer miles have earned me enough points I think to now choose a side.

But for reals this time. It's a hard thing to do and like Mr House said on the page before, Diplomacy is not an option. Well, we could say it's barely an option if one counts Season unending.

So... hmmm. I still think Jarl B is a pretty swell guy. I'm going to stick with him. If he thinks the Imperials are ok, then they're ok with me to. If he says to chop every tree down in Skyrim, then I'll just use my Excellently Excellent Dwarven Battle Axe of Fire and I'll never run out of firewood.

I guess that puts me still with the Empire and still on good terms with the Thalmor, which I entered this debate on the side of the Thalmor and still am. Whiterun's plight reminds me of the Dominion back in the day while trying to maintain their freedom from ol' Tiber Septim. The Reachmen also bare a resemblance to this.

I like Jarl B's philosophy ~ it's beautiful and perfect. At least as far as I can see. The unfortunate down side is it puts me into eternal conflict with the Stormcloaks but I'm ok with that. After all, Jarl B is for Freedom of Religion and Speech, it's a conflict of interest for Ulfric to even attack Whiterun.

Alas, Ulfric doesn't have Freedom in mind, he would like to make an example out of the Jarl. Something that I would never allow to happen. The Imperials try to actually convince Jarl B one way or the other without forcing him to do anything. Even the Legate offers to leave Whiterun if Jarl B isn't satisfied.

I think alot of people have got Jarl Balstein and the Empire painted all wrong. So if it's the war you're referring to, I'm on the side of Whiterun, the REAL Whiterun ~ not that watered down Greymain Whiterun. Give me real Black Briar Mead Fresh from Riften!!! MUHAHAHAHAHA ~ YEEAAAHHHH!!!

And it fits in well with the Thalmor's goals because Justiciars pass thru Whiterun hold all the time, so keeping the roads open throughout Whiterun hold is pivotal to the Justiciar's successful operations.

Anyways, I know a lot of things. Lot of things. And so, I'm starting to get a little nervous about the social order of things around here so I'm not going to say anymore. Because everything I say that's pro Empire (because at heart I am a true Imperial, Thalmor are Imperials in a way) is going to get chakked up and cataloged for the Stormcloaks to counter later and the truth will never be revealed or understood properly. So, hey, it's a pl*psty deal but at least the truth is still out there... waiting.

If you cared enough. And yes, I threw in with Mr House and/or Yes Man during New Vegas and saved everyone I could including the NCR. Well... saved all those who could be saved. Sometimes if you go too far, no matter the reason, you cross that magic line and are damned forever.

I guess you could call this "Dwarven" take on things. Because they were pretty solid and never really cared about what the 'minor' factions were squabbling about around them.

Take care guys.

 

[Raijin]

Ugh. When does it become Ulfric responsibility to deal with the situation that was going on in Hammerfell? Can someone here please explain it to me?

 

[Jorrvaskr]

I'll go into this more.

Who cares what this or that person said? That's their OPINION.

Your logic basically is, "I have no argument, so here are so links about what a bunch of NPCs said."

Never said they were false, just twisted.

I have no argument? My logic is to use in-game information, dialogue to support an argument. So when I use dialogue it is twisted, but when those who are against the Stormcloaks use dialogue it is accepted?

You're really making this easy. Why is it that when one Stormcloak sided Jarl says something, it is accepted to be used against us. But when an Imperial sided person says something, it's all of a sudden not counted because "It's just their opinion!"

Is this how those defending the Empire in debate justify themselves? By ignoring information, unless it supports their argument?

Not only that, but I believe DrunkenMage said something about Stormcloak supporters saying negative things about Ulfric, Including one JARL.

Diplomatic Immunity, you think those Imperial supporters are putting the Empire in positive light?

 

[NENALATA]

Nope.

I'm crazy lol

Yeah... Ulfric is right about everything and you guys should go ahead and just let that go because it makes Ulfric look bad. Hurts his image. And we wouldn't want that. MUHAHAHAHAHAHA

Hey, Image is everything to man.

 

[NENALATA]

NENALATA said: ↑

Who cares what this or that person said? That's their OPINION.​

​

Your logic basically is, "I have no argument, so here are so links about what a bunch of NPCs said."​

​

Never said they were false, just twisted.​

I have no argument? My logic is to use in-game information, dialogue to support an argument. So when I use dialogue it is twisted, but when those who are against the Stormcloaks use dialogue it is accepted?

You're really making this easy. Why is it that when one Stormcloak sided Jarl says something, it is accepted to be used against us. But when an Imperial sided person says something, it's all of a sudden not counted because "It's just their opinion!"

Is this how those defending the Empire in debate justify themselves? By ignoring information, unless it supports their argument?

lol - Well, it's worked pretty well for you so far so... not my fault?

Self Defense, man, it's self defense.

 

[Raijin]

NENALATA What is your bizarre fascination with Jarl Balgruuf if you don't mind me asking you? How can you still be a follower of the Empire when your Jarl is essentially slamming them saying that their weak by calling them milk drinkers, in front of their faces mind you? He essentially used the Imperial legion to deal with a personal matter with Ulfric instead of dealing it with himself, since he thinks so highly about the guards of his hold.

Jarl Balgruuf forces me to defend the Imperial Legion due to the fact that hes a sleazy little man with no backbone.

 

[Jorrvaskr]

lol - Well, it's worked pretty well for you so far so... not my fault?

Self Defense, man, it's self defense.

What information have I ignored?

'Stormcloaks going to enslave Forsworn' Evidence?

'Stormcloaks hate other races' Yet many races own shops in Windhelm, they live in Windhelm too. One Stormcloak Jarl also has an Argonian Housecarl?

There are lots of different races in the cities, under Stormcloak rule also.

 

[Jorrvaskr]

NENALATA What is your bizarre fascination with Jarl Balgruuf if you don't mind me asking you? How can you still be a follower of the Empire when your Jarl is essentially slamming them saying that their weak by calling them milk drinkers, in front of their faces mind you? He essentially used the Imperial legion to deal with a personal matter with Ulfric instead of dealing it with himself, since he thinks so highly about the guards of his hold.

Jarl Balgruuf forces me to defend the Imperial Legion due to the fact that hes a sleazy little man with no backbone.

I find it odd those who defend Jarl Balgruuf, have to attack Ulfric for needing Whiterun?

Ulfric had been reaching out to Jarl Balgruuf diplomatically, many times. Whiterun is the center location, that controls the most strategic spot in Skyrim.

Ulfric sends Balgruuf his axe in the end, because time was wasting. He needed an answer, Balgruuf however refused either out of dislike for Ulfric or from falsified Imperial reports. Ulfric tried the peaceful way for Balgruuf, waiting for quite sometime apparently. "How long are you going to wait?" - Galmar

Looking at the conversation between Ulfric and Galmar, Ulfric is faithful in Balgruuf.

"He's a true Nord. He'll come around."

"Things hinge on Whiterun. If we can take the city without bloodshed all the better. But if not..."

Ulfric doesn't want to take Whiterun by force, but he will if he has no choice.

When he finds Balgruuf has sided with the Empire, "Then I was wrong about him."

"I've toured our camps. We're ready, Ulfric... Whenever you are." -- "Is any man ever ready to give the order that will mean the deaths of many."

 

[NENALATA]

 

[Raijin]

Is Elisif the Fair good for Skyrim as High Queen? Lets examine what she is.

Ulfric: "And damn the Moot! We should risk letting those milkdrinkers put Thorryg's woman on the throne? She'll hand Skyrim over to the elves on a silver plate."

He couldn't be more right.

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000bc16d

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000bc171

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000bc12b

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000bc12c

Elisif is so into herself that she thinks about nothing but her own self importance. Shes very narcissistic.

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000618b4

This is what the Empire wants ruling Skyrim.

 

[NENALATA]

Is Elisif the Fair good for Skyrim as High Queen? Lets examine what she is.

Ulfric: "And damn the Moot! We should risk letting those milkdrinkers put Thorryg's woman on the throne? She'll hand Skyrim over to the elves on a silver plate."

He couldn't be more right.

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000bc16d

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000bc171

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000bc12b

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000bc12c

Elisif is so into herself that she thinks about nothing but her own self importance. Shes very narcissistic.

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000618b4

This is what the Empire wants ruling Skyrim.

Yes because having someone sit on the throne who co-operates with Thalmor, is FUNDED by Thalmor in secret is a MUCH safer alternative for the Nord's Freedom. As opposed to someone who has a good heart and has compassion for her subjects. Not being overly knowledgeable yet, also not blinded by her own ambition. You never know... if Elisif simply asked the Thalmor to leave, they might just do that seeing how she's on such good terms with them. TMII is a tool and has painted himself into a corner. Thalmor got him by the balls.

Hey, lol, you know how us Thalmors are though... if you don't join the party we'll come get ya'.

 

[Raijin]

Is Elisif the Fair good for Skyrim as High Queen? Lets examine what she is.

Ulfric: "And damn the Moot! We should risk letting those milkdrinkers put Thorryg's woman on the throne? She'll hand Skyrim over to the elves on a silver plate."

He couldn't be more right.

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000bc16d

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000bc171

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000bc12b

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000bc12c

Elisif is so into herself that she thinks about nothing but her own self importance. Shes very narcissistic.

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000618b4

This is what the Empire wants ruling Skyrim.

Yes because having someone sit on the throne who co-operates with Thalmor, is FUNDED by Thalmor in secret is a MUCH safer alternative for the Nord's Freedom. As opposed to someone who has a good heart and has compassion for her subjects. Not being overly knowledgeable yet, also not blinded by her own ambition. You never know... if Elisif simply asked the Thalmor to leave, they might just do that seeing how she's on such good terms with them. TMII is a tool and has painted himself into a corner. Thalmor got him by the balls.

Hey, lol, you know how us Thalmors are though... if you don't join the party we'll come get ya'.

you're wrong and you can't prove it. You're making stuffs up.

 

[Jeremius]

Yes because having someone sit on the throne who co-operates with Thalmor, is FUNDED by Thalmor in secret is a MUCH safer alternative for the Nord's Freedom. As opposed to someone who has a good heart and has compassion for her subjects. Not being overly knowledgeable yet, also not blinded by her own ambition. You never know... if Elisif simply asked the Thalmor to leave, they might just do that seeing how she's on such good terms with them. TMII is a tool and has painted himself into a corner. Thalmor got him by the balls.

Hey, lol, you know how us Thalmors are though... if you don't join the party we'll come get ya'.

Clearly the Stormcloaks are so powerful, the words of the Empire are always and forever false. Let them win. IT's over for the Empire. I will remain out of the civil War.

ALL HAIL THE TRUE CHILDREN OF SKYRIM, AND ALL HAIL ULFRIC, THE TRUE HIGH KING! DOWN WITH THE EMPIRE, TRAITORS OF TAMRIEL!

 

[Jorrvaskr]

Yes because having someone sit on the throne who co-operates with Thalmor, is FUNDED by Thalmor in secret is a MUCH safer alternative for the Nord's Freedom.

How does he cooperate with the Thalmor? The Empire cooperates with the Thalmor, enforcing the Talos ban, what about the East Empire Company making trade deals with the Thalmor? Don't they make money for the Empire?

The Stormcloaks are funded by the Thalmor in secret? Source? They're funded by Ulfric, and the Jarls that support them. Why else do you think caravans from Riften with gold, and weapons are sent to Windhelm?

You have nothing to back this claim.

As opposed to someone who has a good heart and has compassion for her subjects. Not being overly knowledgeable yet, also not blinded by her own ambition.

She's a puppet of the Empire. She has no authority and any decision she makes, she doesn't stand by it if someone in her Court disagrees. She's blinded by the fact that she is clueless, she goes on about parades, and then complains politics isn't fair.

You never know... if Elisif simply asked the Thalmor to leave, they might just do that seeing how she's on such good terms with them. TMII is a tool and has painted himself into a corner. Thalmor got him by the balls.

The Thalmor might leave because Elisif asked? Tullius doesn't even refuse the Thalmor, because it might cause a diplomatic incident, but suddenly Elisif who has no power, is going to ask the Thalmor to leave?

Titus Mede II, was part of a politically weak dynasty. He was a tool of the Elder Council, until one decided to remove him from power. When talking about the death of Titus Mede II, and going on about policy change. Those of you defending the Empire, are hoping Motierre's intentions are right.

For all we know it is Titus Mede II's policy of preparing for war that will change. Mede's are a line of politically weak Emperors, the Elder Council had them on a leash. You keep blaming Titus Mede II, without realizing that it was him and his Dynasty that was trying to keep the Empire together. The Elder Council was opposed to the Mede Dynasty, until they were convinced by the Prime Minister they could control them.

 

[Jorrvaskr]

I am not And if someone can tell me something I wasn't aware of before

"Altmer. They act all high and mighty until you leave them in a pool of their own blood." Owyn

Does that count?

you're wrong and you can't prove it. You're making stuffs up.

They can't prove much of anything; just lies, speculation and evasion of facts.

One Jarl who doesn't know Ulfric personally, says something bad about him? His word is fact, and is reason against the Stormcloaks.

Imperial sided Jarls/Nobles putting the Empire in bad light? Bah just their mere opinions... Imperial hypocrisy, the forums reek with it.

 

[Jeremius]

I am not And if someone can tell me something I wasn't aware of before

"Altmer. They act all high and mighty until you leave them in a pool of their own blood." Owyn

Does that count?

you're wrong and you can't prove it. You're making stuffs up.

They can't prove much of anything; just lies, speculation and evasion of facts.

One Jarl who doesn't know Ulfric personally, says something bad about him? His word is fact, and is reason against the Stormcloaks.

Imperial sided Jarls/Nobles putting the Empire in bad light? Bah just their mere opinions... Imperial hypocrisy, the forums reek with it.

And Elisif being Jarl is not because Ulfric killed Torygg. That much is also false. Many in the Empire fight for them because it is their opinion that it is right. Stormcloaks win, that is the truth. DrunkenMage does not come here anymore. They lost,we won.

 

[Jorrvaskr]

And Elisif being Jarl is not because Ulfric killed Torygg.

Elisif is Jarl by right, only because she was recently married to Torygg. Her actions as Jarl, are her own, or those of her court. It doesn't matter she became Jarl, because Ulfric killed High King Torygg, the point you were making is moot. You were blaming Ulfric Stormcloak for her incompetency.

 

[DrunkenMage]

DrunkenMage does not come here anymore

I don't?

 

[Jeremius]

And Elisif being Jarl is not because Ulfric killed Torygg.

Elisif is Jarl by right, only because she was recently married to Torygg. Her actions as Jarl, are her own, or those of her court. It doesn't matter she became Jarl, because Ulfric killed High King Torygg, the point you were making is moot. You were blaming Ulfric Stormcloak for her incompetency.

She likely would not do those actions had Torygg lived, so technically her actions are the fault of Ulfric for her being in that position in the first place. She may make them on her own, but she could not do so without being Jarl, as it would not help her.

 

[Jeremius]

DrunkenMage does not come here anymore

I don't?

This thread is now property of the rebellion, leave imperial liar.