Companions VS Thieves Guild VS College of Winterhold

[pkkveel]

Dark Brotherhood sneaks around and wipes out all parties left over from the main skirmishes and witness left behind. There is no one to contest their domination of Skyrim however as working in the background and subtlety directing the course of history is more to their MO they leave the ruling of the realm to which ever side the Dragon Born supported in the civil war (whats so civil 'bout war anyway!)

HAIL SITHIS !

P.

 

[KritikalPT]

Can we conclude everything by simply saying that the Mages Guild would simply tear everyone asunder with their spells in an all-out fight in a big open space, just like an arena?

 

[ShadowGambit]

You guys aren't even talking about a fight, you are saying that you're the only one trying to kill me, and I'm not trying to kill you. You are just talking about an assassination, not a versus, where all sides know they are in the fight. And last I checked, the thread does have a VS in it.

Assassination IS the way to fight for the DB.

i was explaining how the DB, as assassin, would get rid of the mages BEFORE the battle, or before coming face to face with anyone for that matter. The DB knows that face to face with the companion or a mage, they stand no chance. So they do "back to face" instead

Also, the video on this thread doesn't show a war, it shows a BATTLE. A war is about long term fighting, and not only face to face battle. Actually, face to face battle is only the VERY LAST thing that happen in a war.

You win a war by depleting enemy ressource before the battle, so when it comes to the actual fight, their capacity is strongly disminished and they are easier to beat. That's part of strategy.

War is not about being fair one on one: that's sport.

 

[Psiberzerker]

If the DBH is invincible, than why were they sent into hiding, burned out, had their numbers more than decimated, then halved again while they fled to their hidey hole? I love the DBH, I do, but at least in this game, they're extremely weakened.

 

[ShadowGambit]

I don't say that the DB is invincible, don't get me wrong.

I would say that a charge of the Companion or the Mage in the DB sanctuary would wipe them out entirely, in nearly 1 battle. As I said, they don't stand a chance face to face. But first, companion and Mage have to find and get access to the DB Sanctuary...

but the Thread was about WAR (note that the original thread didn't even mention the DB).

And for me, the DB are the best suited for a LONG TERM WAR, because of their way of assassination and treachery.

We don't have the history behind why the DB and the Thieve guild went down that much though.

Maybe they were becoming too powerful and the High Kind decided to wipe them out by pure force. A little bit like what the King of France, the most powerful monarch of that time, being jealous of the wealth and power of the Templar, did when he ordered the pope to wipe out all the Templar outposts in europe on Friday the 13th...

 

[Psiberzerker]

Yeah, but we do have first hand experience with how they were almost wiped out by the PO, who would quickly be wiped out by either the Companions, or CowH. I think that fairly clearly illustrates how they would do in a War with any faction. The only reason they would assassinate an entire faction would be if someone did multiple Black Sacraments to make it a series of Contracts, and that just isn't happening. I fear that the Thieves' Guild would fare no better. That just leaves the Companions, and the CoWH.

Again, Mages win. They've got superior numbers, and Magic, which the others have no defense against. Case closed.

 

[ShadowGambit]

Hummm... I wonder if the DB knows about the Atronach forge.

The Forge by itself is a good enough reason for a faction money oriented like the DB to go on war with the mages... or at least get them out of the College Castle.

I agree that they would see no financial benefits to go on war with the companion though

 

[Psiberzerker]

Hummm... I wonder if the DB knows about the Atronach forge.

The Forge by itself is a good enough reason for a faction money oriented like the DB to go on war with the mages... or at least get them out of the College Castle.

I agree that they would see no financial benefits to go on war with the companion though

Just for clarity, I use "DBH" for that questline, to differentiate from the "DB" which I confuse with DragonBorn (I.E. the main quest arc.) Not telling you to, just why I spell out DBH. I can usually tell the difference from Context, but this saves me the trouble.

There's all kinds of Profit in the College, if you just take, and sell what you can without stealing as a new apprentice, you can make hundreds of septims. There's treasure all over the place, but the Archmage's Quarters is the real payoff. I'd say the TG would be more interested in the profit aspect (Not to mention they've already infiltrated it) as the DBH are essentually a Cult of an Unliving Goddess.

Neither requires an all out War, which would draw unwanted attention to everything. A "War" of Assassins is something completely other, without a formal declaration. (Unless you're sticking to Kanly, which is a different Universe.) While yes, the DBH could Kill the Companions (easilly) or College (Much more difficultly) they wouldn't stand a chance in an all out War.

 

[KritikalPT]

In the end, it would all depends how the stage would be set.
If it was an "unofficial" war, where they would kill each other as they would see the others around Skyrim, then the Dark Brotherhood would win easily, given their especiality of stealth and suberfuge. Plus, they have the patience to wait for a target to be in the best location. Also, anyone could hold a grudge against the Companions or the College for a reason or another, and thus, a Black Sacrament, or several, could be held, which would dwindle their (the College and Companions) numbers greatly.
However, if it was a war in an arena of sorts, the College would win easily. They have all the spells and they have the number advantage.

 

[darkblade382]

the war would be companions & thieves guild & cowh
so no dbh

so lets think a bout the allies of all the factions like in my list a page before
the thieves guild has allies like maven black biar and if the imperials had won it would be jarl maven blackbiar
maven would help the guild caus se can make profit out of it
so maven would contact the dbh to help the thieves guild


enthir is a meber of the guild so he could spy on cowh

that is only 2 of the many allies of the guild
for a full list of all allies view my post on the page before

so i say the thieves guild is going to win

becaus the influence of the guild a round skyrim

 

[nacman99]

bitch please what about the bards collegue?!!?

THEY ARE ANIMALS OF DESTRUCTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Haru17]

While mages are powerful, what people don't consider is that the college mages aren't battlemages; they're just scholars. This being said I think Companions beat Mages, Mages beat Thieves, and Thieves beat Companions, like rock, paper, scissors. The College could hold out with wards, but they would be a terrible invading army. The Companions would dominate the battlefield and conquer like the original 500. But, like all things, it comes down to cold, hard, coin. The thieves guild has the most influence throughout Skyrim, they can buy off anyone to join their side and assassinate the competition.

Speaking of assassinate, why aren't the dark brotherhood included in this?. Wh, they only have 2-3 senior members anyway, oh, and an old woman's corpse... greeeaaaat...

Anyway, the college is so feared that the very townsfolk would fight them. These common folk would likely side with the companions, at least until they saw their more bestial nature. However, once again, all of the Yarls and movers and shakers would be under the thumb of the thieve's guild and it's coin; and that's what you need to win.

 

[KritikalPT]

While mages are powerful, what people don't consider is that the college mages aren't battlemages; they're just scholars. This being said I think Companions beat Mages, Mages beat Thieves, and Thieves beat Companions, like rock, paper, scissors. The College could hold out with wards, but they would be a terrible invading army. The Companions would dominate the battlefield and conquer like the original 500. But, like all things, it comes down to cold, hard, coin. The thieves guild has the most influence throughout Skyrim, they can buy off anyone to join their side and assassinate the competition.

That ultimately depends on how the war would be done. Open battle field? Mages Win. Tight spaces, like inside a building? Companions win. Thieves Guild wouldn't do almost any killing since they try to avoid that, because they're thieves, not assassins, unless there's a good enough reason. The only reason that they could "join" this is to wait for both sides to go all-out on each other and then they would simply rob everything. Note, when I say Thieves Guild, I do mean the entire guild, with Nightingales involved.

Anyway, the college is so feared that the very townsfolk would fight them. These common folk would likely side with the companions, at least until they saw their more bestial nature. However, once again, all of the Jarls and movers and shakers would be under the thumb of the thieve's guild and it's coin; and that's what you need to win.

To my knowledge, not every Jarl is under the Thieves Guild influence, only the one in Riften, and that's because of Maven.
Oh, and quick correction, it's Jarl, or Yarl, and the pronunciation is the latter.

 

[Argonianale7]

I don't say that the DB is invincible, don't get me wrong.

I would say that a charge of the Companion or the Mage in the DB sanctuary would wipe them out entirely, in nearly 1 battle. As I said, they don't stand a chance face to face. But first, companion and Mage have to find and get access to the DB Sanctuary...

but the Thread was about WAR (note that the original thread didn't even mention the DB).

And for me, the DB are the best suited for a LONG TERM WAR, because of their way of assassination and treachery.

We don't have the history behind why the DB and the Thieve guild went down that much though.

Maybe they were becoming too powerful and the High Kind decided to wipe them out by pure force. A little bit like what the King of France, the most powerful monarch of that time, being jealous of the wealth and power of the Templar, did when he ordered the pope to wipe out all the Templar outposts in europe on Friday the 13th...

I doubt it, I got killed by the Brotherhood multiple times, The Penitus Oculatus had numbers the Companions have on average the same numbers as the Brotherhood, and considering how I killed the Companions so easily I doubt they would stand much of a chance against them.

 

[Osiris]

I think the Companions are getting too much credit here...In my experience, Mages are usually harder to fight when your a melee class because they can wear you down before you can even get close enough to wreck them. Believe me, the Companions are cool and everything, but I have to give this one to the College.

 

[Psiberzerker]

While mages are powerful, what people don't consider is that the college mages aren't battlemages; they're just scholars. This being said I think Companions beat Mages, Mages beat Thieves, and Thieves beat Companions, like rock, paper, scissors. The College could hold out with wards, but they would be a terrible invading army. The Companions would dominate the battlefield and conquer like the original 500. But, like all things, it comes down to cold, hard, coin. The thieves guild has the most influence throughout Skyrim, they can buy off anyone to join their side and assassinate the competition.

Wait, what? The College aren't Battlemages, but I've fought with them against Dragons, including Elders, and Bloods. They do more than enough damage to take them down in under a minute. The Thieves' Guild is not an army, they specifically don't kill, because it draws too much attention, and yet this logic doesn't apply to them, because they're your favorite. At least keep your logic consistent. We've already Eliminated the DBH because they're not in the OP, but now we can include all the allies of the Thieve's guild? (Which indirectly includes the DBH.) What about the allies of the Companions, like the entire city of Whiterun? (Not to mention, they are, in fact Warriors.) The College already has superior numbers, and they can summon Atronachs for reinforcements, (and do in every battle I've seen them in.)

Even if you change the rules, and apply double standards, the College still wins.

 

[KritikalPT]

Wait, what? The College aren't Battlemages, but I've fought with them against Dragons, including Elders, and Bloods. They do more than enough damage to take them down in under a minute. The Thieves' Guild is not an army, they specifically don't kill, because it draws too much attention, and yet this logic doesn't apply to them, because they're your favorite. At least keep your logic consistent. We've already Eliminated the DBH because they're not in the OP, but now we can include all the allies of the Thieve's guild? (Which indirectly includes the DBH.) What about the allies of the Companions, like the entire city of Whiterun? The Colloge already has superior numbers, and they can summon Atronachs for reinforcements, (and do in every battle I've seen them in.)

Even if you change the rules, and apply double standards, the College still wins.

Yup, College vs Companions vs Thieves, the College will come on top easily. Even if you pit them in an arena and let the AI fight.

 

[Haru17]

Wait, what? The College aren't Battlemages, but I've fought with them against Dragons, including Elders, and Bloods. They do more than enough damage to take them down in under a minute. The Thieves' Guild is not an army, they specifically don't kill, because it draws too much attention, and yet this logic doesn't apply to them, because they're your favorite. At least keep your logic consistent. We've already Eliminated the DBH because they're not in the OP, but now we can include all the allies of the Thieve's guild? (Which indirectly includes the DBH.) What about the allies of the Companions, like the entire city of Whiterun? (Not to mention, they are, in fact Warriors.) The College already has superior numbers, and they can summon Atronachs for reinforcements, (and do in every battle I've seen them in.)

Even if you change the rules, and apply double standards, the College still wins.

Well I'm speaking about lore, not game mechanics, which are not indicative of the story. Ex: Tiber Septim didn't have a 60 second cool down on his Thu'um. I'm considering Skyrim as the battleground, not some arbitrary little arena in the game, not a random dungeon, the real thing.

As to your insights as to my preference, I really don't have much of one. I'm the listener, harbinger, arch mage, and thieve's guild master. I'm a werewolf, sword swinger, mage, and a thief. I enjoyed all of the guilds (I especially loved the college's librarian, lol), but the thieve's guild annoyed me because they always seemed to favor the winners and pick on the peasants and 'little people'.

I included the dark brotherhood because I'm considering Skyrim as the battlefield, and I'm considering the inhabitants as well. The thieve's guild would win the influence, and has in the story, of all of the cities and dark under workings of ruling. And as to my point as how the College of Winterhold isn't a battling group; they aren't! They send the Dohvahkiin to do all of their dangerous work, which is always research and not battling, and an entire wave of their apprentices died from minor dangers in their research (see Lost Apprentices). They don't train for battle in the Battlespire, where battlemages (a specific faction) reside, they are not battlemages!

So regardless of all of your opinions, you can't discredit mine as it is perfectly valid.

 

[Neveraine]

Aren't you guys forgetting that the Thieves Guild has the best weapon ... WEALTH!!!
It is called bribe all of the guards to arrest the Companions and the College of Winterhold or the thieves guild would frame them for doing something (would be easy with the College seeing as the city of Winterhold and its inhabitants hate the College).

 

[Haru17]

Aren't you guys forgetting that the Thieves Guild has the best weapon ... WEALTH!!!
It is called bribe all of the guards to arrest the Companions and the College of Winterhold or the thieves guild would frame them for doing something (would be easy with the College seeing as the city of Winterhold and its inhabitants hate the College).

THANK YOU, at least someone else recognizes the influence of greed and economy.