Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[General Charles Xander]

No. You cannot possibly justify an execution without a trial. Even Ulfric should have been taken back to the Imperial City. And karma got them for that, because if they had Ulfric wouldn't have escaped and they would have won the war.

That's my point. But Tullius did the smart thing and tried to execute him right then. If not, well, that's up in the air. Some could say that the Thalmor would have somehow released Ulfric if they continued, others would say that it's fate that they stopped their because the Elder Scrolls foretold it. Either way.

I don't know what Tullius was thinking. If the Thalmor really wanted to free Ulfric at Helgen they probably could have, but it probably wouldn't have been able to do it very discreetly and decided they had squeezed as much as they could out of the civil war and would let it go. Tullius could have killed Ulfric right on the spot at Darkwater Crossing, without having to parade Ulfric around and show off how great a general he is or something. Anyways, that pretty much shows me how corrupt and incompetent the current Empire is, as they have screwed pretty much everything they possibly could have up.

General Tullius knew that the Thalmor wanted Ulfric alive and as a spit to their faces, he wanted to formerly execute him in the Imperial city. Along the way however, Tullius thought about it and realized that the Thalmor would try to free him somehow. So instead of taking an unnecessary risk, he decided to just do it then and there. Elenwen found out about this and went to Helgen to intervene the execution. That's why you see her talking to Tullius, shes trying to persuade Tullius to do it in the Imperial City, but Tullius knows better. As a result of being distracted by Elenwen, he fails to hear about the mistake of a unknown prisoner. He refuses the Thalmor ambassador's advice with the little authority he had over her and went with the execution. Thennnnnnn Alduin.

 

[Jeremius]

Because the Thalmor needed a point man...

The thalmor only used Ulfric to demand power for their control over the ban. the Empire allowed them to have it by accepting the orders the Thalmor gave. All of this could have gone away if the Empire made Skyrim less of a province, and more of an ally of the Empire.

As a Federated ally you mean? Yes, that could have worked. Though we will never know because Ulfric chose a different road. An ally implies a sort of friendship, Ulfric doesn't want to be friends.

The Empire could have done it during the Markarth Incident, instead of even letting it get this far.

 

[TheQahnaarin]

That's my point. But Tullius did the smart thing and tried to execute him right then. If not, well, that's up in the air. Some could say that the Thalmor would have somehow released Ulfric if they continued, others would say that it's fate that they stopped their because the Elder Scrolls foretold it. Either way.

I don't know what Tullius was thinking. If the Thalmor really wanted to free Ulfric at Helgen they probably could have, but it probably wouldn't have been able to do it very discreetly and decided they had squeezed as much as they could out of the civil war and would let it go. Tullius could have killed Ulfric right on the spot at Darkwater Crossing, without having to parade Ulfric around and show off how great a general he is or something. Anyways, that pretty much shows me how corrupt and incompetent the current Empire is, as they have screwed pretty much everything they possibly could have up.

Go easy on the situation at Helgen. In the game files, Gen Tully's dialogue is missing however Elenwen's reaction is not. She reacts almost hostile to Gen Tullius refusing her demands. This is the conv on the way inside Helgen gate mind you.

Gen Tully is a good man. He is torn however, between the various forces at work in Skyrim. What probably happened, you know what I think happened? They were taking Ulfric to Cyrodil to answer to the Emperor until someone got word to him the Thalmor were waiting in route at Helgen. At that point, like he said, "Let's just get this over with". Whether he knew for certain the Thalmor were waiting to take custody of Ulfric or not, I feel like that was his thinking.

The Empire unfort, takes prisoners. So, if Ulfric surrendered, then Gen Tully had to accept. Yet, Ulfric would not allow Gen Tully to surrender. This does not mean however, the Empire can't still conduct a summary execution under martial law. It's all about the law and General's position is very political.

I don't hate Tullius, at the end of the day he doesn't have a lot of power, he's just directing the legion. I guess we'll never know exactly what happened at Helgen, but Tullius could've incarcerated Ulfric in Skyrim, no matter what I don't think you should execute a man without trial, and even if it was an effort to ensure the Thalmor wouldn't free him, why were they going to execute all the other Stormcloaks, and two men in rags? Why wouldn't they execute Ulfric first instead of the "for the love of Talos shut up" guy and the last dragonborn before him when you believe the Thalmor are circling like vultures? You're asking for trouble. And Ulfric doesn't accept Tullius' surrender because of what happened at Helgen, it was payback.

 

[DrunkenMage]

View attachment 37331 It would be cool if the legion used this instead..

They did once. They wore Ebony and Daedric in their campaigns in Morrowind during the Second Empire. It is much harder to come by now, Morrowind was the major source of ebony and Daedric isn't in favor since the Oblivion Crisis. That was back in the days before the "Old Days"

 

[DrunkenMage]

All of this could have gone away if the Empire made Skyrim less of a province, and more of an ally of the Empire.

Except Skyrim did not want to leave the Empire. In fact, Ulfric was still loyal to the Empire a year or two after the White-Gold Concordat was signed. Even the talk of independence itself wasn't raised officially (Subtle hints really) until well over a decade after the treaty was in effect.

I don't hate Tullius, at the end of the day he doesn't have a lot of power, he's just directing the legion. I guess we'll never know exactly what happened at Helgen, but Tullius could've incarcerated Ulfric in Skyrim, no matter what I don't think you should execute a man without trial, and even if it was an effort to ensure the Thalmor wouldn't free him, why were they going to execute all the other Stormcloaks, and two men in rags? Why wouldn't they execute Ulfric first instead of the "for the love of Talos shut up" guy and the last dragonborn before him when you believe the Thalmor are circling like vultures? You're asking for trouble. And Ulfric doesn't accept Tullius' surrender because of what happened at Helgen, it was payback.

You have to look at how law is done in Tamriel. Since the First Era, every province operates under the phrase "All are guilty, until proven innocent"

Ulfric killed Torygg, and raised a rebellion against the Empire. He is being executed for that. A trial would be fairly pointless, since Ulfric isn't denying he killed the King. It is something he champions in his cause. If Ulfric did deny he killed Torygg, then you may have a trial. He's facing the exact same thing that happened to an Elder Council member, who was executed in the fashion Ulfric nearly had. Summary execution soon after arrest.

As for not executing Ulfric first, they weren't in a real rush. Ulfric was bound and gagged surrounded by an entire garrison, inside a Legion fortified village. No one was expecting a Dragon.

 

[General Charles Xander]

I don't know what Tullius was thinking. If the Thalmor really wanted to free Ulfric at Helgen they probably could have, but it probably wouldn't have been able to do it very discreetly and decided they had squeezed as much as they could out of the civil war and would let it go. Tullius could have killed Ulfric right on the spot at Darkwater Crossing, without having to parade Ulfric around and show off how great a general he is or something. Anyways, that pretty much shows me how corrupt and incompetent the current Empire is, as they have screwed pretty much everything they possibly could have up.

Go easy on the situation at Helgen. In the game files, Gen Tully's dialogue is missing however Elenwen's reaction is not. She reacts almost hostile to Gen Tullius refusing her demands. This is the conv on the way inside Helgen gate mind you.

Gen Tully is a good man. He is torn however, between the various forces at work in Skyrim. What probably happened, you know what I think happened? They were taking Ulfric to Cyrodil to answer to the Emperor until someone got word to him the Thalmor were waiting in route at Helgen. At that point, like he said, "Let's just get this over with". Whether he knew for certain the Thalmor were waiting to take custody of Ulfric or not, I feel like that was his thinking.

The Empire unfort, takes prisoners. So, if Ulfric surrendered, then Gen Tully had to accept. Yet, Ulfric would not allow Gen Tully to surrender. This does not mean however, the Empire can't still conduct a summary execution under martial law. It's all about the law and General's position is very political.

I don't hate Tullius, at the end of the day he doesn't have a lot of power, he's just directing the legion. I guess we'll never know exactly what happened at Helgen, but Tullius could've incarcerated Ulfric in Skyrim, no matter what I don't think you should execute a man without trial, and even if it was an effort to ensure the Thalmor wouldn't free him, why were they going to execute all the other Stormcloaks, and two men in rags? Why wouldn't they execute Ulfric first instead of the "for the love of Talos shut up" guy and the last dragonborn before him when you believe the Thalmor are circling like vultures? You're asking for trouble. And Ulfric doesn't accept Tullius' surrender because of what happened at Helgen, it was payback.

If Tullius incarcerated Ulfric in Skyrim, that would be ringing the dinner bell for Stormcloaks to come and save him or even if they failed, have many people needlessly die. I sure as Hell wouldn't want to risk that. You know I just thought about it but, just because you aren't on the list doesn't mean your innocent. You could have done something and they forgot to write your name down....or anything for that matter. My point is, you could have done anything. This is why I don't like the characters "innocence" subject, because I don't really count it. The developers made it that way so that you could make your own backstory, whether or not you did something is unknown, therefore I usually leave it as a stalemate.

They didn't execute him first, because Tullius wanted to see there plan crumble slowly apart. Besides, he had a whole calvary there and if the Thalmor tried something, he could easily wipe them out. In fact, I think he was probably waiting for that. Ulfric surrendered at Dark Water Crossing. When you surrender, you place your life at the mercy of your captors. Ulfric didn't even give him the satisfaction that Tullius did.

 

[Jeremius]

All of this could have gone away if the Empire made Skyrim less of a province, and more of an ally of the Empire.

Except Skyrim did not want to leave the Empire. In fact, Ulfric was still loyal to the Empire a year or two after the White-Gold Concordat was signed. Even the talk of independence itself wasn't raised officially (Subtle hints really) until well over a decade after the treaty was in effect.

I am not saying they did. All I am saying is that this issue is because of the Empire as much as the Stormcloaks, probably more-so because their choice to not do anything to prevent this is what led to this.

 

[TheQahnaarin]

All of this could have gone away if the Empire made Skyrim less of a province, and more of an ally of the Empire.

Except Skyrim did not want to leave the Empire. In fact, Ulfric was still loyal to the Empire a year or two after the White-Gold Concordat was signed. Even the talk of independence itself wasn't raised officially (Subtle hints really) until well over a decade after the treaty was in effect.

I don't hate Tullius, at the end of the day he doesn't have a lot of power, he's just directing the legion. I guess we'll never know exactly what happened at Helgen, but Tullius could've incarcerated Ulfric in Skyrim, no matter what I don't think you should execute a man without trial, and even if it was an effort to ensure the Thalmor wouldn't free him, why were they going to execute all the other Stormcloaks, and two men in rags? Why wouldn't they execute Ulfric first instead of the "for the love of Talos shut up" guy and the last dragonborn before him when you believe the Thalmor are circling like vultures? You're asking for trouble. And Ulfric doesn't accept Tullius' surrender because of what happened at Helgen, it was payback.

You have to look at how law is done in Tamriel. Since the First Era, every province operates under the phrase "All are guilty, until proven innocent"

Ulfric killed Torygg, and raised a rebellion against the Empire. He is being executed for that. A trial would be fairly pointless, since Ulfric isn't denying he killed the King. It is something he champions in his cause. If Ulfric did deny he killed Torygg, then you may have a trial. He's facing the exact same thing that happened to an Elder Council member, who was executed in the fashion Ulfric nearly had. Summary execution soon after arrest.

As for not executing Ulfric first, they weren't in a real rush. Ulfric was bound and gagged surrounded by an entire garrison, inside a Legion fortified village. No one was expecting a Dragon.

It isn't about whether or not Ulfric killed Torygg, it's about how Torygg accepted a challenge, had the chance to decline, a chance to defend himself, and was killed in 1 on 1 combat. Ulfric had a case. And apparantly how no one put any stock in Ulfric fairly winning the throne according to tradition, Torygg probably could have declined and the Empire would've said no to a moot and kept Torygg there anyway.

I know they weren't in a rush, we were discussing why Ulfric wasn't taken back to Cyrodiil, and the only reason that puts the Empire in the right is that the Thalmor were possibly skulking about, hoping to set Ulfric free. I argued that by saying they would've disposed of Ulfric sooner if they feared that.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Ulfric executing Tullius was stupid, his death gained nothing. Showing mercy and sparing him, would have been a far greater political move. Not only could it truly end the war, but it could have been a trade to make peace with Cyrodiil. Their General back for peace and a non-aggression pact. There is an entire new Imperial force gathering in Cyrodiil to march into Skyrim once they clear Pale Pass.

Though in the end, it can't be any worse than the Dark Brotherhood framing the Stormcloaks with Vici's death and planting a letter saying the Emperor will die by Stormcloak hands.

"We're ready to march on Solitude, but the Emperor's cousin is getting married! If royal blood was spilt, all of Cyrodiil would be up in arms. We can't afford an all out war with the Empire. So we'll bide our time for now." - Ulfric

"We're ready to march on Solitude, but the Emperor's visiting! The goddamned Emperor! And, as much as I'd like to kill the man myself, we can't risk an all out war with the Empire. We'll bide our time for now..." - Ulfric

 

[General Charles Xander]

I believe it was "Any damage, whether intentionally or unintentionally, physical, psychological, or mental to an elevated sovereign will result in immediate death" or something along those lines Mage?

 

[TheQahnaarin]

Go easy on the situation at Helgen. In the game files, Gen Tully's dialogue is missing however Elenwen's reaction is not. She reacts almost hostile to Gen Tullius refusing her demands. This is the conv on the way inside Helgen gate mind you.

Gen Tully is a good man. He is torn however, between the various forces at work in Skyrim. What probably happened, you know what I think happened? They were taking Ulfric to Cyrodil to answer to the Emperor until someone got word to him the Thalmor were waiting in route at Helgen. At that point, like he said, "Let's just get this over with". Whether he knew for certain the Thalmor were waiting to take custody of Ulfric or not, I feel like that was his thinking.

The Empire unfort, takes prisoners. So, if Ulfric surrendered, then Gen Tully had to accept. Yet, Ulfric would not allow Gen Tully to surrender. This does not mean however, the Empire can't still conduct a summary execution under martial law. It's all about the law and General's position is very political.

I don't hate Tullius, at the end of the day he doesn't have a lot of power, he's just directing the legion. I guess we'll never know exactly what happened at Helgen, but Tullius could've incarcerated Ulfric in Skyrim, no matter what I don't think you should execute a man without trial, and even if it was an effort to ensure the Thalmor wouldn't free him, why were they going to execute all the other Stormcloaks, and two men in rags? Why wouldn't they execute Ulfric first instead of the "for the love of Talos shut up" guy and the last dragonborn before him when you believe the Thalmor are circling like vultures? You're asking for trouble. And Ulfric doesn't accept Tullius' surrender because of what happened at Helgen, it was payback.

If Tullius incarcerated Ulfric in Skyrim, that would be ringing the dinner bell for Stormcloaks to come and save him or even if they failed, have many people needlessly die. I sure as Hell wouldn't want to risk that. You know I just thought about it but, just because you aren't on the list doesn't mean your innocent. You could have done something and they forgot to write your name down....or anything for that matter. My point is, you could have done anything. This is why I don't like the characters "innocence" subject, because I don't really count it. The developers made it that way so that you could make your own backstory, whether or not you did something is unknown, therefore I usually leave it as a stalemate.

They didn't execute him first, because Tullius wanted to see there plan crumble slowly apart. Besides, he had a whole calvary there and if the Thalmor tried something, he could easily wipe them out. In fact, I think he was probably waiting for that. Ulfric surrendered at Dark Water Crossing. When you surrender, you place your life at the mercy of your captors. Ulfric didn't even give him the satisfaction that Tullius did.

Regardless of your character, what about Lokir? Chop a guys head off for stealing a horse? What about all the lower-ranked Stormcloaks? Some of them could have been healers, or smiths, or couriers. Off with their heads too though, I suppose.

So Tullius wanted to prove his superiority to a bunch of patriots who were dead anyways? Now your not making him sound like such a good guy. And whoops, you just broke rule number 1, underestimating the Thalmor.

And if you think about it, Ulfric treated Tullius' execution better than what would have happened at Helgen. Ulfric beat him in combat, and then instead of parading him around Skyrim, gagged, accusing him of stuff without him being able to defend himself, have him watch all of his comrades be decapitated and then himself, that's just degrading. Ulfric just did it quick and private.

 

[TheQahnaarin]

Ulfric executing Tullius was stupid, his death gained nothing. Showing mercy and sparing him, would have been a far greater political move. Not only could it truly end the war, but it could have been a trade to make peace with Cyrodiil. Their General back for peace and a non-aggression pact. There is an entire new Imperial force gathering in Cyrodiil to march into Skyrim once they clear Pale Pass.

Though in the end, it can't be any worse than the Dark Brotherhood framing the Stormcloaks with Vici's death and planting a letter saying the Emperor will die by Stormcloak hands.

"We're ready to march on Solitude, but the Emperor's cousin is getting married! If royal blood was spilt, all of Cyrodiil would be up in arms. We can't afford an all out war with the Empire. So we'll bide our time for now." - Ulfric

"We're ready to march on Solitude, but the Emperor's visiting! The goddamned Emperor! And, as much as I'd like to kill the man myself, we can't risk an all out war with the Empire. We'll bide our time for now..." - Ulfric

And I'm sure it was great for Empire/Dominion tensions to HANG Lord Naarifin from the White-Gold Tower for over a MONTH. Probably made the dominion real happy. Bet it helped during the Concordat. And plus it's just inhumane, I don't even care he was Thalmor.

 

[DrunkenMage]

It isn't about whether or not Ulfric killed Torygg, it's about how Torygg accepted a challenge, had the chance to decline, a chance to defend himself, and was killed in 1 on 1 combat. Ulfric had a case. And apparantly how no one put any stock in Ulfric fairly winning the throne according to tradition, Torygg probably could have declined and the Empire would've said no to a moot and kept Torygg there anyway.

I know they weren't in a rush, we were discussing why Ulfric wasn't taken back to Cyrodiil, and the only reason that puts the Empire in the right is that the Thalmor were possibly skulking about, hoping to set Ulfric free. I argued that by saying they would've disposed of Ulfric sooner if they feared that.

It doesn't matter if Torygg accepted a challenge or not. Old Nord tradition doesn't translate over to Third Empire politics or law. Ulfric didn't win the throne, killing Torygg doesn't make him King. The Moot elects the King when there is no heir (Or when there is a challenge), Ulfric still needed Eight other Jarls to vote him in or at least a majority.

The Empire can't say no to the Moot, they have no authority over the Moot. How the Moot works hasn't changed since the First Era's Pact of Chieftains after the First War of Succession. It isn't the case of the Imperials saying "Jump!" and Skyrim yelling "How high?"

The Nords don't always do things that align with Imperial interests, they've stolen land from the Redguards and Bretons. They've even annexed fiefdoms that belonged to the Emperor directly. Skyrim is unique in many political freedoms, that if another province tried it... Legion would probably put them back into place. There are limits, however.

Killing the King and open rebellion crosses that line.

 

[DrunkenMage]

And I'm sure it was great for Empire/Dominion tensions to HANG Lord Naarifin from the White-Gold Tower for over a MONTH. Probably made the dominion real happy. Bet it helped during the Concordat. And plus it's just inhumane, I don't even care he was Thalmor.

After what he did during his invasion of Cyrodiil? Entire villages destroyed, women and children slaughtered like animals? Being burnt alive with magic? The countless atrocities on civilians he oversaw during his occupation of the Imperial City?

They should have tortured him for a month, then left him in the cage hanging off the tower.

 

[General Charles Xander]

I don't hate Tullius, at the end of the day he doesn't have a lot of power, he's just directing the legion. I guess we'll never know exactly what happened at Helgen, but Tullius could've incarcerated Ulfric in Skyrim, no matter what I don't think you should execute a man without trial, and even if it was an effort to ensure the Thalmor wouldn't free him, why were they going to execute all the other Stormcloaks, and two men in rags? Why wouldn't they execute Ulfric first instead of the "for the love of Talos shut up" guy and the last dragonborn before him when you believe the Thalmor are circling like vultures? You're asking for trouble. And Ulfric doesn't accept Tullius' surrender because of what happened at Helgen, it was payback.

If Tullius incarcerated Ulfric in Skyrim, that would be ringing the dinner bell for Stormcloaks to come and save him or even if they failed, have many people needlessly die. I sure as Hell wouldn't want to risk that. You know I just thought about it but, just because you aren't on the list doesn't mean your innocent. You could have done something and they forgot to write your name down....or anything for that matter. My point is, you could have done anything. This is why I don't like the characters "innocence" subject, because I don't really count it. The developers made it that way so that you could make your own backstory, whether or not you did something is unknown, therefore I usually leave it as a stalemate.

They didn't execute him first, because Tullius wanted to see there plan crumble slowly apart. Besides, he had a whole calvary there and if the Thalmor tried something, he could easily wipe them out. In fact, I think he was probably waiting for that. Ulfric surrendered at Dark Water Crossing. When you surrender, you place your life at the mercy of your captors. Ulfric didn't even give him the satisfaction that Tullius did.

Regardless of your character, what about Lokir? Chop a guys head off for stealing a horse? What about all the lower-ranked Stormcloaks? Some of them could have been healers, or smiths, or couriers. Off with their heads too though, I suppose.

So Tullius wanted to prove his superiority to a bunch of patriots who were dead anyways? Now your not making him sound like such a good guy. And whoops, you just broke rule number 1, underestimating the Thalmor.

And if you think about it, Ulfric treated Tullius' execution better than what would have happened at Helgen. Ulfric beat him in combat, and then instead of parading him around Skyrim, gagged, accusing him of stuff without him being able to defend himself, have him watch all of his comrades be decapitated and then himself, that's just degrading. Ulfric just did it quick and private.

Like Mage said, these are medieval times. Crime in general is punishable by death. If that wasn't enough, he attempted to escape so he essentially sealed his fate. It doesn't matter what you are or what you had been, if you side with the enemy and take up arms against your country, they have the obligation to kill you.

I was reffering to the Thalmor's plans. Also the entire fort was guarded and only 3 Thalmor Justiciars were inside. Even if they did have a surprise siege, Tullius could just kill Ulfric then and there.

Tullius never "paraded him" he's not that kind of person. His description says that he "plays by the books" and "just wants to end the war".

 

[TheQahnaarin]

And I'm sure it was great for Empire/Dominion tensions to HANG Lord Naarifin from the White-Gold Tower for over a MONTH. Probably made the dominion real happy. Bet it helped during the Concordat. And plus it's just inhumane, I don't even care he was Thalmor.

After what he did during his invasion of Cyrodiil? Entire villages destroyed, women and children slaughtered like animals? Being burnt alive with magic? The countless atrocities on civilians he oversaw during his occupation of the Imperial City?

They should have tortured him for a month, then left him in the cage hanging off the tower.

And Tullius looked the other way as Thalmor dragged off faithful Nords for torture. And the Imperials don't have a great past of treating conquered nations, Senchal, Stros M'kai. Either way, you said it was politically stupid to execute Tullius, Im saying it was equally politically stupid to torture Naarifin when you know that youre planning on signing the concordat.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Regardless of your character, what about Lokir? Chop a guys head off for stealing a horse?

Martial law. Punishment for crimes are more harsh, especially in warzones.

 

[TheQahnaarin]

If Tullius incarcerated Ulfric in Skyrim, that would be ringing the dinner bell for Stormcloaks to come and save him or even if they failed, have many people needlessly die. I sure as Hell wouldn't want to risk that. You know I just thought about it but, just because you aren't on the list doesn't mean your innocent. You could have done something and they forgot to write your name down....or anything for that matter. My point is, you could have done anything. This is why I don't like the characters "innocence" subject, because I don't really count it. The developers made it that way so that you could make your own backstory, whether or not you did something is unknown, therefore I usually leave it as a stalemate.

They didn't execute him first, because Tullius wanted to see there plan crumble slowly apart. Besides, he had a whole calvary there and if the Thalmor tried something, he could easily wipe them out. In fact, I think he was probably waiting for that. Ulfric surrendered at Dark Water Crossing. When you surrender, you place your life at the mercy of your captors. Ulfric didn't even give him the satisfaction that Tullius did.

Regardless of your character, what about Lokir? Chop a guys head off for stealing a horse? What about all the lower-ranked Stormcloaks? Some of them could have been healers, or smiths, or couriers. Off with their heads too though, I suppose.

So Tullius wanted to prove his superiority to a bunch of patriots who were dead anyways? Now your not making him sound like such a good guy. And whoops, you just broke rule number 1, underestimating the Thalmor.

And if you think about it, Ulfric treated Tullius' execution better than what would have happened at Helgen. Ulfric beat him in combat, and then instead of parading him around Skyrim, gagged, accusing him of stuff without him being able to defend himself, have him watch all of his comrades be decapitated and then himself, that's just degrading. Ulfric just did it quick and private.

Like Mage said, these are medieval times. Crime in general is punishable by death. If that wasn't enough, he attempted to escape so he essentially sealed his fate. It doesn't matter what you are or what you had been, if you side with the enemy and take up arms against your country, they have the obligation to kill you.

I was reffering to the Thalmor's plans. Also the entire fort was guarded and only 3 Thalmor Justiciars were inside. Even if they did have a surprise siege, Tullius could just kill Ulfric then and there.

Tullius never "paraded him" he's not that kind of person. His description says that he "plays by the books" and "just wants to end the war".

There was a surprise siege of sorts, and Tullius didnt "just kill Ulfric then and there". Maybe the Thalmor can't rain fire from the sky but if they wanted to keep Ulfric alive they would.

How did Tullius not parade him? He made it a waaaay bigger deal than it needed to be. What was the point of the "but a hero doesn't use a power like the voice to murder his King blah blah blah" speech? Ulfric can't even say anything to defend himself. And then they insult his religion nice and subtly, and then have him watch all his comrades be executed, one at a time.

 

[TheQahnaarin]

Regardless of your character, what about Lokir? Chop a guys head off for stealing a horse?

Martial law. Punishment for crimes are more harsh, especially in warzones.

And there was no reason to execute anyone but Ulfric.

 

[General Charles Xander]

Regardless of your character, what about Lokir? Chop a guys head off for stealing a horse? What about all the lower-ranked Stormcloaks? Some of them could have been healers, or smiths, or couriers. Off with their heads too though, I suppose.

So Tullius wanted to prove his superiority to a bunch of patriots who were dead anyways? Now your not making him sound like such a good guy. And whoops, you just broke rule number 1, underestimating the Thalmor.

And if you think about it, Ulfric treated Tullius' execution better than what would have happened at Helgen. Ulfric beat him in combat, and then instead of parading him around Skyrim, gagged, accusing him of stuff without him being able to defend himself, have him watch all of his comrades be decapitated and then himself, that's just degrading. Ulfric just did it quick and private.

Like Mage said, these are medieval times. Crime in general is punishable by death. If that wasn't enough, he attempted to escape so he essentially sealed his fate. It doesn't matter what you are or what you had been, if you side with the enemy and take up arms against your country, they have the obligation to kill you.

I was reffering to the Thalmor's plans. Also the entire fort was guarded and only 3 Thalmor Justiciars were inside. Even if they did have a surprise siege, Tullius could just kill Ulfric then and there.

Tullius never "paraded him" he's not that kind of person. His description says that he "plays by the books" and "just wants to end the war".

There was a surprise siege of sorts, and Tullius didnt "just kill Ulfric then and there". Maybe the Thalmor can't rain fire from the sky but if they wanted to keep Ulfric alive they would.

How did Tullius not parade him? He made it a waaaay bigger deal than it needed to be. What was the point of the "but a hero doesn't use a power like the voice to murder his King blah blah blah" speech? Ulfric can't even say anything to defend himself. And then they insult his religion nice and subtly, and then have him watch all his comrades be executed, one at a time.

Alduin Fus Ro Dahd everyone into the ground, that gave Ulfric and the others time to escape. You seem to hold the Thalmor as this perfect intelligence agency, they are not. Even the Thalmor can be tricked and loose.

He was announcing the reasoning for Ulfric's execution. He does the same thing when he enters the Palace Of Kings during the Battle for Windhelm. Again Ulfric doesn't need to defend himself, he admits that he killed the High King and he even caused a rebellion that looked to kill people and soldiers of the Empire. There is no defense, he had every right to die by Imperial Law. They don't insult their religion, the priest "commends their souls to Atherius". She does say "Blessings of the eight divines upon you", would you say nine if the Thalmor were right behind you?