Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

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DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
That is just your opinion Drunkenmage. It isn't facts. Ulfric is not a violent kind of man. He is driven to commit violent acts for the purpose to protect his homeland against a dying Empire... an Empire that essentially sold Skyrim out to the Dominion by allowing them to have anti-Talos patrols on the roads to root out Talos worshipers because of the WGC.

He isn't? And yet he wages war, he toys with Tullius' life to draw out the "dramatic moment". Violence is what he knows best.

"There is no progress without sacrifice. No wheat without threshing the chaff." - Ulfric about his people dying.

"Peace? When has any Nord ever known peace? Skyrim breeds warriors. It's who we are, it's in our blood."

No one forces Ulfric to do things but Ulfric. Aren't you Stormcloaks claiming to be these "True Nords" who never back down, worthy of the old Nords? Hm, I guess those boasts are hollow as violence was accepted and expected.

Galmar: "Balgruuf won't give us a straight answer."
Ulfric: "He's a true Nord. He'll come around."
Galmar: "Don't be so sure of that. We've intercepted couriers from Solitude. The Empire's putting a great deal of pressure on Whiterun."
Ulfric: "And what would you have me do?"
Galmar: "If he's not with us, he's against us."
Ulfric: "He knows that. They all know that."
Galmar: "How long are you going to wait?"
Ulfric: "You think I need to send Balgruuf a stronger message."
Galmar: "If by message you mean shoving a sword through his gullet."
Ulfric: "Taking his city and leaving him in disgrace would make a more powerful statement, don't you think?"
Galmar: "So we're ready to start this war in earnest then?"
Ulfric: "Soon."
Galmar: "I still say you should take them all out like you did Deadking Torygg."
Ulfric: "Torygg was merely a message to the other Jarls. Whoever we replace them with will need the support of our armies."
Galmar: "We're ready when you are."
Ulfric: "Things hinge on Whiterun. If we can take the city without bloodshed all the better. But if not..."
Galmar: "The people are behind you."
Ulfric: "Many I fear still need convincing."
Galmar: "Then let them die with their false kings."
Ulfric: "We've been soldiers a long time. We know the price of freedom. The people are still weighing things in their hearts."
Galmar: "What's left of Skyrim to wager?"
Ulfric: "They have families to think of."
Galmar: "How many of their sons and daughters follow your banner? We are their families."
Ulfric: "Well put, friend. Tell me, Galmar, why do you fight for me?"
Galmar: "I'd follow you into the depths of Oblivion, you know that."
Ulfric: "Yes, but why do you fight? If not for me, what then?"
Galmar: "I'll die before elves dictate the fates of men. Are we not one in this?"
Ulfric: "I fight for the men I've held in my arms, dying on foreign soil. I fight for their wives and children, who's [sic] names I heard whispered in their last breaths. I fight for we few who did come home, only to find our country full of strangers wearing familiar faces. I fight for my people impoverished to pay the debts of an Empire too weak to rule them, yet brands them criminals for wanting to rule themselves! I fight so that all the fighting I've already done hasn't been for nothing. I fight... because I must."
Galmar: "Your words give voice to what we all feel, Ulfric. And that's why you will be High King. But the day words are enough, will be the day when soldiers like us are no longer needed."
Ulfric: "I would gladly retire from the world were such a day to dawn."
Galmar: "Aye. But in the meantime, we have a war to plan."

Ulfric is playing that scene out. He knew Balgruuf wouldn't join him, the whole thing is a farce. He's not convinced about Balgruuf coming around, http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000e1af8

He he plays along the rest of the scene, seeing if Galmar gives him the responses he wants.

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000e1aff

The man is an egomaniac.

Ulfric didn't wanted to invade Whiterun, but was obligated to do it to gain more power in Skyrim over the Imperial legion as they were eying on Whiterun themselves. Do you not see how upset the man became when you return with his axe? The pure disappointment of finding out that Jarl Balgruuf sided with the Imperial legion.

Ulfric wanted Whiterun one way or another, it makes no difference. He wants to become the High King. The violence is what he knows, and completely comfortable with. Ulfric got all upset? He was angry, cause to refuse his claim is to be the Legion.

Ulfric was eying Whiterun before the Imperials were, him eying Whiterun and positioning was what caught the attention of the Legion. He was bringing up an army.

Once you return to the Palace of Kings along with Ulfric's axe, he will exclaim: "Then I was wrong about him." Ulfric will then begin to discuss an attack on Whiterun with Galmar:

Ulfric isn't an idiot, nor is he this peace loving, forced to be rebel. He is a skilled politician, and he is indeed a man who knows only violence. "With us or against us"

Stop taking his word at face value, everything Ulfric does has it's purpose. He isn't stupid, especially not stupid enough to actually believe that Balgruuf would accept his claim when threatened. Two of his own Jarls aren't even that dumb, nor is Ralof who hears things he doesn't like about Ulfric.

I honestly don't know how to really answer to that one. Seriously Drunkenmage. You need to stop pulling on my leg. I don't know if you're being serious with me, or trolling me. either way I will end it off by saying that Skyrim needs a strong ruler right now... a Ruler that will fight to protect her people, especially when the Great war v2.0 is not that far off, and with Skyrim in the crosshairs of the Thalmor swords are completely necessary to help protect those who can provide food, heal the sick, plant crops and help rebuilds shattered lives.

The Great War will be fought in the south, so you believe Skyrim needs to be ruled by the strong. Yet those strong will leave for war, and thus abandon Skyrim anyway.

You Stormcloaks have been constantly telling me that no Thalmor army can reach Skyrim, yet these swords are needed to protect you from the Thalmor?

Protect those people or to force them? A sword does not help.

You're becoming like Galmar now "Skyrim must be ruled by the strong" What is real strength? Fighting someone weaker than you, knowing you're sure to win? That is not strength, but slaughter.
 
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DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
He's a source of pride for the Nords, he's Skyrim personified in many ways.

Quite popular in Cyrodiil too. I wouldn't go as far as Skyrim personified, he changed his name to Tiber Septim and started that "evil racist Empire" you Stormcloaks have been going on and on about the last pages. Though Tiber Septim did actually want Imperials and himself ruling things directly in a way. He hated Orcs though. Be thankful it didn't go beyond his reign.

He was very different to the war-like being Nords like to paint him as, this God of War. Very much the politician and bookish, knew magic. Had lots of plots though.

He did speak about himself in third person, always said "we" and "us", so either he spent too much time with Khajiit or he was insane... Would stutter it, switching between we, us and then "I" after a bit of force. Your favorite God was probably like Golem from LoTR in life.

But Heimsker is right.

"Today they take away your faith, but what of tomorrow?"

Technically they took away their faith two hundred years ago. Since you're all about "The Nine" and "The Eight".

Tiber himself tried too, wanted "the One" to be the religion it seemed, he was often praising "the One". That Alessian religion that the Nords fought against... But we just sweep that under the rug of ignorant blind faith. We were pretty cowardly, waited until he was dead to just add him to the main religion of the Cyrodiil.

It opens the door to anything. Letting the WGC go unpunished could lead to dark days under the Empire.

Skyrim is the Empire, as much as Cyrodiil is. The White-Gold Concordat go unpunished? Like the Empire wanted it in the first place. I'm sure High Rock and Cyrodiil have been plotting to create some No Nords Allowed areas and force some new policies to crush the Nords under the "Imperial machine" as Heimskr puts it.
 
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Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
He isn't? And yet he wages war, he toys with Tullius' life to draw out the "dramatic moment". Violence is what he knows best.

"There is no progress without sacrifice. No wheat without threshing the chaff." - Ulfric about his people dying.

"Peace? When has any Nord ever known peace? Skyrim breeds warriors. It's who we are, it's in our blood."

No one forces Ulfric to do things but Ulfric. Aren't you Stormcloaks claiming to be these "True Nords" who never back down, worthy of the old Nords? Hm, I guess those boasts are hollow as violence was accepted and expected.

He wages war because his people asked for it.

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000d1e18
General Trollius had information that could very well end the civil war regarding to the situation with the Thalmor, but did he stop? No. He kept on going and wasting good soldiers over this Civil war while the Thalmor is sitting back, and eating popcorn enjoying the entertainment that the Empire is giving them. There are none so blind as those who will not see. You dare call Ulfric a violent man while theirs a General out there that lust for violence.

Ulfric is playing that scene out. He knew Balgruuf wouldn't join him, the whole thing is a farce. He's not convinced about Balgruuf coming around, http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000e1af8

He he plays along the rest of the scene, seeing if Galmar gives him the responses he wants.

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000e1aff

The man is an egomaniac.

I don't know what you're trying to prove to me on the first URL, but it showed me absolutely nothing.

Theirs a difference between playing along and testing. Ulfric was testing to see if he gets the response he wants.

Ulfric wanted Whiterun one way or another, it makes no difference. He wants to become the High King. The violence is what he knows, and completely comfortable with. Ulfric got all upset? He was angry, cause to refuse his claim is to be the Legion.

Ulfric was eying Whiterun before the Imperials were, him eying Whiterun and positioning was what caught the attention of the Legion. He was bringing up an army.

General Trollius wanted whiterun too.

Rikke: "I'm telling you, Ulfric's planning an attack on Whiterun."
Tullius: "He'd be insane to try. He doesn't have the men."
Rikke: "That's not what my scouts report, sir. Every day more join his cause. Riften, Dawnstar, and Winterhold support him."
Tullius: "It's not a cause. It's a rebellion."
Rikke: "Call it whatever you like, General. The man's going to try to take Whiterun."
Tullius: "Jarl Balgruuf..."
Rikke: "Balgruuf refuses the Legion's right to garrison troops in his city. On the other hand, he also refuses to acknowledge Ulfric's claim."
Tullius: "Well, if he wants to stand outside the protection of the Empire, fine. Let Ulfric pillage his city."
Rikke: "General."
Tullius: "You people and your damn Jarls."
Rikke: "Sir? You can't force a Nord to accept help he hasn't asked for."
Tullius: "If Ulfric's making a move for Whiterun, then we need to be there to stop him. Draft another letter with the usual platitudes, but this time share some of your intelligence regarding Ulfric's plans. Embellish if you have to. We'll let it seem like it's his idea."
Rikke: "Yes, sir."
Tullius: "You Nords and your bloody sense of honor."
Rikke: "Sir."

---------------

Tullius: "Secure the door."
Rikke: "Already done, sir."
Tullius: "Ulfric Stormcloak! You are guilty of insurrection, murder of Imperial citizens, the assassination of King Torygg, and high treason against the Empire. It's over."
Galmar: "Not while I'm still breathing, it's not."
Rikke: "Step aside Galmar. We're here to accept Ulfric's surrender."
Ulfric: "I'll never surrender Skyrim into the hands of a corrupt and dying Empire."
Rikke: "Skyrim doesn't belong to you, Ulfric."
Ulfric: "No... But I belong to her."
Tullius: "Enough! You are traitors and will die traitors' deaths. Stand down and face public execution, or advance and face summary execution by my hands. It matters little to me. Either way I'll be sending your heads back to Cyrodiil."
Galmar: "Well? What are we waiting for?"

--------------
Tullius: "The rebellion is over. Ulfric Stormcloak is dead. His head will be sent to Cyrodiil where it will adorn a spike on the walls of the Imperial City. Let this day be a final warning to all who would still call themselves Stormcloaks. We are turning the city over to Brunwulf Free-Winter, an honorable and faithful man. Many of you will be staying in Windhelm to aid the Jarl in restoring order and stamping out any embers of rebellion that may still smolder here. In appreciation for your exemplary service, I am doubling your pay and compensation to the widows of your fallen comrades. I am proud of all of you. All hail the Emperor. All hail his Legionnaires!"

Yeah tell me more about how Ulfric is the violent one here LOL. At least Ulfric isn't obsessed with decapitations. Trollius has no problem whatsoever of allowing young fragile minded children in the Imperial city, or travelers to see such graphic detail on the walls of the Imperial city. I can almost understand why the Imperials aren't shocked at such graphic details... because they've been desensitized to the point where this kind of behavior is quite normal for them.

Trollius definitely reminds me of this video below


After all serial killers do have their little trophies that they keep as a prize.
 

Mithro'I

Well-Known Member
Its amazing to read this discussion going on almost 4 years after it all started. And here I am, a stupid noob, going "oh thats an interesting point!" with every post, and still have no idea which side to choose.
In the end I guess it doesn't really matter, since theyre both not exactly good.
My archer assasin went with the Imperials, because I thought it would be funny to take their side after executing the Emperor.
The warrior I'm playing now will probably pick the other side.

*hides*
 

Rimfaxe96

Well-Known Member
I've yet to see even a slight expansion they've been able to hold onto.

The only time the Dominion made an attempt at expansion was during the Interregnum in the 2nd Era. These are different Thalmor, not just a diplomatic arm of some Altmer Queen.

Really? And yet Esbern escape due to their underestimations, and Delphine escaped assassination due to underestimations. Arrogance is the foe of the Thalmor, who boast so much about victory that they're so desperate to get weapons for their armies.

If it hadn't been for the Dragonborn Esbern would be a goner. That 'hero' vanished after the main quest, no more aid for you.
Why wouldn't they spy on Imperial weaponry? What smart leader wouldn't want to know what tricks the enemy might have among its resources, and take advantage of it themselves? There's also been an expedition to retrieve some powerful Dragon mask; the Thalmor are likely searching for powerful relics and weapons all over Tamriel.

Empire has suffered far greater losses and still managed to conquer more than the Aldmeri Dominion.

The friggin' Empire tried to conquer sh!t since the beginning of its existence. The Dominion didn't. Give them Dominion a few centuries and you'll see what's left of it.

Yet their efforts in Skyrim work against them, Ulfric is no friend to the Thalmor. Stormcloak or Imperial, you turn them against you.

Their well-planned coup in Valenwood was planned for a very long time, I wonder how well they'll pull another out when they could barely control the one in Skyrim. Had it not been for the Dragon, the Legion would have won. They're onto the Thalmor's game.

Do you think Elenwen tortured Ulfric for a pen pal friendship? They knew he would be useful at some point and let him go. They wanted him to stir up sh!t and he did a wonderful job. The Stormcloaks certainly are no friends of the Thalmor, but their main focus is on the Imperials, which serves our cause.

They didn't plan a coup in Skyrim, why would they? It doesn't even make sense from the geographic point of view, Skyrim's on the other side of the continent and also relies on Cyrodiil's resources. You think they'd just start with continuous shipping from Alinor to Skyrim to feed a people that would likely rise up against them because there's still resentment over the Great War? They want to take over for real, not just take over the fancy titles and chairs.

Besides smuggle in weapons and aid the Blades?

And once more the Blades were aided by the Dragonborn. Delphine would have never dared to set foot there, as she already suspects she'd be recognized at the front door.

Please, you lot couldn't even find Delphine. They knew too much in Valenwood, to be sure. They're starting to make more and more mistakes due to arrogance and underestimation. Perhaps there is new leadership who are too inept to give commands.

Who cares about Delphine? She only escaped because she cut ties to all of her colleagues - who didn't have as much luck as she did. Now that she's recruiting she'll be an easier target because there'll be more people who know about her whereabouts.

Oh really? http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x00069f27

You're taken in too easily by words you wish to hear, has the art of politics become lost on you so? You believe a man to be friendly, when he's supplying the Imperial army with large numbers of weapons from the Argonians? He's also willing to sell to Stormcloaks if they can meet the price, so he's arming your foes.

Erikur: "Melaran, you lazy milk drinker, have you finished studying the imports from Black Marsh?"
Melaran: "Indeed I have, sir. Elven weapons for their armies, sir. Elven material, but poor workmanship, like most of what we get from them."
Erikur: "Scary, thinking of those boots with an army of Elven weapons at their command. Let's be thankful they're half a world away, eh?"
Melaran: "Even a fine weapon is only as good as its wielder, sir. But they should fetch a high price from the Imperial army."
Erikur: "Right you are, elf! Or even from the rebels, if they've got enough money to make a competitive offer."
Melaran: "As always, lord, your loyalty is a shining example to us all."

Low-quality crap. Your soldiers will damn your merchants to Oblivion when their swords break against Aldmeri shields. Although Imperials vs Stormcloaks with broken weapons make sense, knowing the true Nordic type they'd just shrug mid-fight and continue with their fists.

A fool who doesn't do anything around his Hold, where everything is controlled by his Steward and Housecarl.

He's still in power. He might be an idiot, but he's an Imperial idiot.

At this rate there will be no Dominion left. At your highest peak and you blew it on a gamble. A weak and unprepared Empire managed to make the costs so very high. Thalmor gained what? No lands, no expansion. Just a Talos Ban that only caused problems in Skyrim, and is barely enforced by the Empire.

No doubt the ones responsible for that stratgic error are dead by now when even ignorant diplomats get called back home for re-education. Just wait and see.

Oh? You Thalmor have made so many enemies. Nords, Imperials, Redguards... Even the Psijic Order wouldn't mind seeing your downfall. Wouldn't be the first time they could be convinced to destroy a certain fleet.

The Aldmeri navy isn't as invincible as they were.

The Psijic knew that Ancano would tamper with the Eye Of Magnus and still did nothing. They keep themselves out of politics.

Yeah, right. That's why they screwed the Imperials in Lake Rumare and along the Niben.

Where are the Direnni and Ayleids now? ;)

The Ayleids' power depended on Daedric help, they were also a very divided people.
The Direnni lost power because of the Alessian Order, which they might have defeated but in the meantime more Bretons came to power.
You can't compare either of those to Altmer society under Thalmor rule, which we know barely anything about.

They need time do they? Think they've had enough time, centuries you say? How long did it take the First, Second and Third Empires? Decades? Please, perhaps we'll give you some tips. Maybe a "Conquer Tamriel for Dummies"?

Pfft, humans just breed faster. Advantage through population.
Besides, your glorious Septim used a giant golem, couldn't even take the Aldmeri head-on. Pussy!

Though quite the commonplace of Tamriel. Prisoner turned hero? Oh, how the Thalmor will regret it... So close, yet so very far.

IT REMAINS SPECULATION. SHOO. >:C
Besides, if Bethesda makes a two-sided main quest available again, you might very well be able to make a human-hunting character. Ha!

At the very least Ulfric needs to meditate a bit, find inner peace. Learn to calm his Nordic tits.

Thank you for the mental image of Ulfric sitting on his throne with female hairy breasts. Was that really necessary, or just some Imperial tactic to confuse their opponents?
 

TheQahnaarin

Son of Skyrim
Tiber Wars did not go over completely smoothly. They lost the Imperial City probably from having resources tied up elsewhere, an inexperienced legion had to be sent in to put down the rebellion.

Does any war going over smoothly? Tiber's problems with the Moth Priests were an internal thing. Losing the Imperial City to internal revolt is different to not having resources to defend the city.

I'm saying Skyrim is likely to end up fending for itself anyway if the Empire is off fighting the Dominion, they'll have a small police force left so we might see another Forsworn incident, if not a second Nord rebellion. If Skyrim can't get access to the Empire's resources what's the point of having the Empire in charge?

Except your argument is the same on the Stormcloaks, they'll fend for themselves with little forces left behind as they went off to fight a war. Skyrim has access to the Empire's resources, and they will get more when the war dies down. If the war takes a turn for the worse, the Nords will be no different to how they are now.

I just don't see how Skyrim will be able to reap the benefits of being a part of the Empire during and especially in the aftermath of the next war (especially if the empire doesn't stand anymore).

They share resources, it is still better than standing alone. Skyrim reaps the benefits even now, in the middle of Civil War and while Cyrodiil was in ruins and rebuilding. Resources and food still came, wealth still came. Either bribes or compensation for lives lost, doesn't matter what the gold was for. Better to use it to make your people's lives better than to turn it away out of pride.

Rikke is an individual. This is a pivotal moment for the Nordic people, and the Imperial government who first outlawed Talos, has deployed a general and legate who know almost nothing about the province they make claim to.

Rikke knows a lot about the province? As much as Galmar and Ulfric, they were all good friends. If she was Stormcloak, would you still claim she knows almost nothing?

General Tullius listens to Rikke, hears her advice and often follows through with it.

Rikke is "supporting the new governments". Doesn't exactly sound like she has a great ton of influence.

Second in Command of the Legion, while Skyrim is under Martial Law? Sounds like her influence is acting High Queen for those regions.

And Of course Cyrodiil has the final say.

In what? They don't have a say in the Moot, they don't really get involved in much. Skyrim runs itself, as does High Rock and all provinces there were in the Empire. Cyrodiil doesn't hand hold everything people do, not even close. Skyrim is not this bitch of Cyrodiil that you Stormcloaks try to make out, they've had the final say on things for Cyrodiil. They've had Cyrodiil by the balls in quite a few political situations.

No one in Cyrodiil is rebelling about it,

You have no idea what is going on in Cyrodiil, so it is hard to say what they're doing. There is unrest there, and Cyrodiil was very big on Talos.

and there is an abundunce of evidence Talos is much more important to Nords than Imperials.

The respect and admiration Imperials had for Tiber Septim is nothing compared to the veneration they have for him as a god of the Nine Divines, regardless of the heresies often espoused about him. His accomplishments inspired them to believe they could do anything they set their mind to. - Lore Imperial

It's a very basic freedom removed, and in the future it opens the door for Cyrodiil to do whatever they wish, because the WGC will have proven its all ok.

Skyrim's High King agreed to the White-Gold Concordat. There is no basic freedom, Skyrim isn't a democracy. Istlod's word was law, as is Ulfric's under the Stormcloaks.

Cyrodiil does not control what Skyrim does, they only served the Emperor. Not Cyrodiil. The Elder Council does do most treaties and legislation, but the provinces were represented and the Kings and Queens of the provinces had to agree.

You're really stripping away the interesting politics of Tamriel and of the Empire. You make out it is Cyrodiil telling them to jump and the provinces asking how high... Politics, especially medieval politics is not like that.

Cyrodiil may be the seat of the Empire, but they do not control the provinces. They all bicker and debate, bribe and arrange marriages. Jarls make blood alliances between Jarls, Counts between Counts etc.

What does it matter if Skyrim and Cyrodiil are united? You've said it yourself, the Empire doesn't plan to anything with Skyrim military wise.

What does it matter if Skyrim remains under the Empire? I'm sure the Legion's would still conscript and train those willing to join. The White-Gold Concordat will be out the window and the Talos ban lifted.

Don't allow Ulfric to use a valid cause for a power grab, instead of trying to do things the peaceful way and a political way. Ulfric starts a war, his first act is violence. Kills his High King to bring the Empire down upon Skyrim, and to make sure there is no going back for his supporters.

Skyrim should be ruled by the wise, not by the strength of your sword arm.

"Unfortunately, a sword can't repair damaged buildings, feed hungry people or undo years of prejudice."

And if Tiber wasn't in Hammerfell or High Rock at the time (im not totally clear on the timeline) the rebellion wouldn't have even happened. If the Forsworn rise up again, or one of your Skyrim doomsday scenarios comes true and the Dominion is all over Cyrodiil, who's there for Skyrim?

Exactly my point, except if Skyrim is independent none of its resources are diverted to an Imperial war effort.

I didn't claim Rikke knows nothing, the people they sent from Cyrodiil know nothing. The Imperials are damn lucky to have her because if it wasn't for Rikke I'd hate to see how badly the war would go for them.
"Sorry, which way is Winterhelm? You know, where Count Ulfric lives."

Yeah, exactly second in command. She still answers to Tullius and Cyrodiil. And of the new jarls, who is she going to influence? Brunwulf has his own plan, Brina probably already knows how Imperials run things, and Winterhold won't see any real change in her lifetime. Oh but I'm sure Maven will listen to whatever Rikke has to say.

You think Skyrim will be on the same level with Cyrodiil after they've gone through war and dragons? Not to mention they were in open rebellion against them, and thier entire government has just been hand-picked by the Empire.

There certainly isn't a Stormcloak rebellion in Cyrodiil.

I'm not sure how that quote proves Talos is more important to Imperials than Nords.

That's nice but I'm not supporting Istlod for High King. Any form of government that let the WGC happen is not something I want Skyrim to continue to be a part of.

Do you think that the actual banning of Talos is the only thing that makes the WGC so despised? While he's unimaginably important yes, the Empire stripped its people of freedom, put its people's fate in the hands of the enemy. And if they can do it once, why can't they do it again?

And if the legion isn't even actively campaigning to get a Nordic army together I don't see a lot of Nords ending up in the legion for the war.

Revolutions don't succeed through mildness. But after the war, Ulfric is no idiot, if you think he's gonna approach every problem by swinging an axe at it, you haven't paid that much attention to him.
 

TheQahnaarin

Son of Skyrim
He's a source of pride for the Nords, he's Skyrim personified in many ways.

Quite popular in Cyrodiil too. I wouldn't go as far as Skyrim personified, he changed his name to Tiber Septim and started that "evil racist Empire" you Stormcloaks have been going on and on about the last pages. Though Tiber Septim did actually want Imperials and himself ruling things directly in a way. He hated Orcs though. Be thankful it didn't go beyond his reign.

He was very different to the war-like being Nords like to paint him as, this God of War. Very much the politician and bookish, knew magic. Had lots of plots though.

He did speak about himself in third person, always said "we" and "us", so either he spent too much time with Khajiit or he was insane... Would stutter it, switching between we, us and then "I" after a bit of force. Your favorite God was probably like Golem from LoTR in life.

But Heimsker is right.

"Today they take away your faith, but what of tomorrow?"

Technically they took away their faith two hundred years ago. Since you're all about "The Nine" and "The Eight".

Tiber himself tried too, wanted "the One" to be the religion it seemed, he was often praising "the One". That Alessian religion that the Nords fought against... But we just sweep that under the rug of ignorant blind faith. We were pretty cowardly, waited until he was dead to just add him to the main religion of the Cyrodiil.

It opens the door to anything. Letting the WGC go unpunished could lead to dark days under the Empire.

Skyrim is the Empire, as much as Cyrodiil is. The White-Gold Concordat go unpunished? Like the Empire wanted it in the first place. I'm sure High Rock and Cyrodiil have been plotting to create some No Nords Allowed areas and force some new policies to crush the Nords under the "Imperial machine" as Heimskr puts it.

The truth of the matter is, the shoulders of Skyrim lifted a man to the title of first Emporer of Tamriel, and eventually to godhood.

I wonder if he stuttered while shouting his enemies to dust. But I'd imagine if your special enough to become a god, you damn well better come off as a little different.

It's really no different than you saying segregating the Dunmer will cause the Stormcloaks to become Nazis.

If the Concordat happens, and is eventually tossed out but no one ever spoke up about it, the Empire will realize they can impose whatever they like, and their subjects will let them get away with it. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and all that.
 

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
Don't mind if I edit a Game of Thrones quote for a moment. :p

"Do you know what the Stormcloak belief is? It's the Many-Headed Talos, a story we agree to tell each other over and over, until we forget that it's a lie."

Tiber Septim, "Talos of Atmora" (Impossible as the last ship from Atmora came hundreds of years before) the founder of the Septim Dynasty that isn't even descended from him. Talos the Nord, Talos Stormcrown... With his Nord (Breton) brother Agnorith whom the Septim bloodline stems from. Funny enough, Tiber aged like a Breton and outlived his own son (people take on the race of the mother).

Talos who became the Ninth Divine for creating the Empire, yet to revere him, the Stormcloaks tear apart the very thing that made him a God.

So when you create your Nord, you must ask. Do you revere and respect the man, or blindly worship the lie that forced so many into service without question?

In a way the Thalmor are right, what we did was heresy. We're just too afraid to admit we ended up believing our own fabrication.
We respect and revere the man known as Talos, the Dragon of the North, Ysmir; He who withstood the Greybeard's voices and learned of their prophecy. A Dragonborn, a man who already earns godlike praise from the Nords by birth right. Talos, Hjalti Early-Beard, was a Nord who made the pompous Elves bend knee to an Empire of men, and ascended to Godhood. He's as much a Nordic god as he is a milkdrinker one. If he wasn't a Nord, then I'd happily welcome him into the pantheon all the same.
 

Ancano

High Justiciar
The thousands of Forsworn actively mobilizing for war in the hills surrounding Markarth might disagree with your 'assessment'. Perhaps if everyone on your side wasn't so busy providing Ulfric with 'lip service' all the time communication would improve.

Keep in mind, I really have no problem with your rebellion against the Empire, Empire needs to be taken to task. It's just painful to watch Ulfric continually embarrass himself and everyone else who signed on with him. He's too 'predictable' too clingy and his battered emotional state is holding him back. Galmar should be running things himself, however everyone has poured their heart into the thought of Ulfric.

For someone who heavily supports the Thalmor shouldn't really be talking about how it's painful to watch someone continuing to embarrass themselves when it's the Thalmor that does their fair share of embarrassing themselves throughout Tamerial. Theirs two high elves at the colleges who don't get along with each other, and theirs 2 high elves women siblings in solitude who I swear is suffers from a severe case of PMS 24/7. These high elven women in Skyrim is proof enough that you should never trust a woman that bleeds for a week and doesn't die.

No Galmar should not be running things himself as he has a military like mentality, and have little to no political background. Ulfric is the right man for the job regardless of what you think.


You can judge us all you like, however even you know that ultimately your fate will be sealed by the Thalmor. Furthermore, Stormcloaks have yet to kick the Empire out of Skyrim, let alone unite Skyrim's 'flock' behind your cause. Thalmor have already accomplished ALL of this and more, my Thrall.

As for the women, if you should see any in uniform my suggestion is to RUN or else you had damn well better do exactly what. they. says.
 
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Ancano

High Justiciar
He's a source of pride for the Nords, he's Skyrim personified in many ways.

Quite popular in Cyrodiil too. I wouldn't go as far as Skyrim personified, he changed his name to Tiber Septim and started that "evil racist Empire" you Stormcloaks have been going on and on about the last pages. Though Tiber Septim did actually want Imperials and himself ruling things directly in a way. He hated Orcs though. Be thankful it didn't go beyond his reign.

He was very different to the war-like being Nords like to paint him as, this God of War. Very much the politician and bookish, knew magic. Had lots of plots though.

He did speak about himself in third person, always said "we" and "us", so either he spent too much time with Khajiit or he was insane... Would stutter it, switching between we, us and then "I" after a bit of force. Your favorite God was probably like Golem from LoTR in life.

But Heimsker is right.

"Today they take away your faith, but what of tomorrow?"

Technically they took away their faith two hundred years ago. Since you're all about "The Nine" and "The Eight".

Tiber himself tried too, wanted "the One" to be the religion it seemed, he was often praising "the One". That Alessian religion that the Nords fought against... But we just sweep that under the rug of ignorant blind faith. We were pretty cowardly, waited until he was dead to just add him to the main religion of the Cyrodiil.

It opens the door to anything. Letting the WGC go unpunished could lead to dark days under the Empire.

Skyrim is the Empire, as much as Cyrodiil is. The White-Gold Concordat go unpunished? Like the Empire wanted it in the first place. I'm sure High Rock and Cyrodiil have been plotting to create some No Nords Allowed areas and force some new policies to crush the Nords under the "Imperial machine" as Heimskr puts it.

The truth of the matter is, the shoulders of Skyrim lifted a man to the title of first Emporer of Tamriel, and eventually to godhood.

I wonder if he stuttered while shouting his enemies to dust. But I'd imagine if your special enough to become a god, you damn well better come off as a little different.

It's really no different than you saying segregating the Dunmer will cause the Stormcloaks to become Nazis.

If the Concordat happens, and is eventually tossed out but no one ever spoke up about it, the Empire will realize they can impose whatever they like, and their subjects will let them get away with it. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and all that.


You are all subjects to the Dominion. Empire and Stormcloaks exist because we allow them to exist. Whatever power you have or whatever rights you lack is because we approved it. The Dominion rules absolutely, regardless of what you may think. So, no funny business now... you're already ourrrs. :D
 
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DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
He wages war because his people asked for it.

They're Nords, they always ask for war. The Stormcloak cause is valid, I won't deny that. Ulfric is using it.

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000d1e18
General Trollius had information that could very well end the civil war regarding to the situation with the Thalmor, but did he stop? No. He kept on going and wasting good soldiers over this Civil war while the Thalmor is sitting back, and eating popcorn enjoying the entertainment that the Empire is giving them. There are none so blind as those who will not see. You dare call Ulfric a violent man while theirs a General out there that lust for violence.

... Yet that information you say can end the war doesn't end it. After Ulfric hears this "important information" he kills Tullius and still wants any Legionaries killed on sight.

General Tullius is a Military General, I'm sure he understands violence too... Not sure where you're doing with that one.

I don't know what you're trying to prove to me on the first URL, but it showed me absolutely nothing.

Showed he wasn't convinced about Balgruuf.

Theirs a difference between playing along and testing. Ulfric was testing to see if he gets the response he wants.

Testing, playing, manipulating. It makes no difference, Ulfric likes what he wants to hear.


General Trollius wanted whiterun too.

Did I claim he didin't?


Yeah tell me more about how Ulfric is the violent one here LOL. At least Ulfric isn't obsessed with decapitations. Trollius has no problem whatsoever of allowing young fragile minded children in the Imperial city, or travelers to see such graphic detail on the walls of the Imperial city. I can almost understand why the Imperials aren't shocked at such graphic details... because they've been desensitized to the point where this kind of behavior is quite normal for them.

You're really under the assumption that I'm saying Ulfric is the only violent one. The men of violence are gathered here, in these halls whose very stones are dedicated to peace.

I don't give a plops about what Tullius does, he isn't trying to lead Skyrim. He's there doing his job, and he will remain for several years. During which the Moot will meet, and the Jarls will vote for their King or Queen.

Obsessed with decapitations? You're in a medieval setting, I'm sure the Jarls cut off the heads of certain criminals. Or they get the guard to do it, depends on the Jarl. I'm sure Ulfric is more the hands on type.

After all serial killers do have their little trophies that they keep as a prize.

You're right, Tullius is a serial killer...
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
The only time the Dominion made an attempt at expansion was during the Interregnum in the 2nd Era. These are different Thalmor, not just a diplomatic arm of some Altmer Queen.

Couldn't hold onto Hammerfell or Cyrodiil for the Great War.


If it hadn't been for the Dragonborn Esbern would be a goner. That 'hero' vanished after the main quest, no more aid for you.
Why wouldn't they spy on Imperial weaponry? What smart leader wouldn't want to know what tricks the enemy might have among its resources, and take advantage of it themselves? There's also been an expedition to retrieve some powerful Dragon mask; the Thalmor are likely searching for powerful relics and weapons all over Tamriel.

Right cause the Thalmor are going to figure out where the Blades are located? The temple had been hidden for Eras, and the only book showing the location Esbern has.

Imperials are hoarding powerful artifacts too, not sure what they're doing with it. Safe keeping or study? I don't know.

The friggin' Empire tried to conquer sh!t since the beginning of its existence. The Dominion didn't. Give them Dominion a few centuries and you'll see what's left of it.

This is the Third Empire, it took a decade or more to create. Second Empire had everything except Morrowind, and the First Empire well their borders were unknown given that regions and borders hadn't been set.


Do you think Elenwen tortured Ulfric for a pen pal friendship? They knew he would be useful at some point and let him go. They wanted him to stir up sh!t and he did a wonderful job. The Stormcloaks certainly are no friends of the Thalmor, but their main focus is on the Imperials, which serves our cause.

They didn't plan a coup in Skyrim, why would they? It doesn't even make sense from the geographic point of view, Skyrim's on the other side of the continent and also relies on Cyrodiil's resources. You think they'd just start with continuous shipping from Alinor to Skyrim to feed a people that would likely rise up against them because there's still resentment over the Great War? They want to take over for real, not just take over the fancy titles and chairs.

Both sides end up focusing on the Thalmor.

And once more the Blades were aided by the Dragonborn. Delphine would have never dared to set foot there, as she already suspects she'd be recognized at the front door.

Still managed to get her hands on an invitation.


Who cares about Delphine? She only escaped because she cut ties to all of her colleagues - who didn't have as much luck as she did. Now that she's recruiting she'll be an easier target because there'll be more people who know about her whereabouts.

Cause a bunch of Thalmor Justiciars are going to assault a fortress? Considering they don't read Akaviri, they're going to have a hard time getting the first bridge down. Then the pressure traps and finally if the Blades decide to close the front door... You need that Dragonborn's blood.

She is recruiting, but only people the Dragonborn brought.


Low-quality crap. Your soldiers will damn your merchants to Oblivion when their swords break against Aldmeri shields. Although Imperials vs Stormcloaks with broken weapons make sense, knowing the true Nordic type they'd just shrug mid-fight and continue with their fists.

Melaran: "Even a fine weapon is only as good as its wielder, sir.

Low-quality to an High Elf, and a sword is only as good as the person who uses it. I'm sure the weapons will be useful for Auxiliaries or Militia.

Between the standard Legions, Auxiliaries and thousands of mercenaries. Should be okay.

He's still in power. He might be an idiot, but he's an Imperial idiot.

And as easily removed. Well placed bribes by Imperial Agents and the nobles call for another Jarl...

No doubt the ones responsible for that stratgic error are dead by now when even ignorant diplomats get called back home for re-education. Just wait and see.

We will see, and we'll be taking those tailors over. Empire could use some nice coats.


The Psijic knew that Ancano would tamper with the Eye Of Magnus and still did nothing. They keep themselves out of politics.

They warned you, and named you Arch-Mage. They're not above destroying a fleet of ships, and I'm sure they wouldn't really care about the Thalmor dying.

Yeah, right. That's why they screwed the Imperials in Lake Rumare and along the Niben.

There were fierce battles, and yet these ships proved no help when the Legions wiped out Naarifin's host? Did the ships flee off home, or were they destroyed... Or were they silly and docked at the Imperial City and we have them.

Pfft, humans just breed faster. Advantage through population.
Besides, your glorious Septim used a giant golem, couldn't even take the Aldmeri head-on. Pussy!

Glorious Mede took the Aldmeri head-on, wiped out an entire main army. The other one was left weakened and on the run in Hammerfell.

Thank you for the mental image of Ulfric sitting on his throne with female hairy breasts. Was that really necessary, or just some Imperial tactic to confuse their opponents?

Unusual_ulfric.jpg


"As you can see, I have much that requires my attention. If you're inclined to gab, there are some nice prison guards you may like to meet..."
-
Ulfric Stormcloak
 
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DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
And if Tiber wasn't in Hammerfell or High Rock at the time (im not totally clear on the timeline) the rebellion wouldn't have even happened.

He was driven out of the city... He was there.

If the Forsworn rise up again, or one of your Skyrim doomsday scenarios comes true and the Dominion is all over Cyrodiil, who's there for Skyrim?

Who would be there for Skyrim if the Stormcloaks are all fighting in the South? I doubt there is much one can do for Skyrim if it happened during the War. After the war, then that is another matter.

Exactly my point, except if Skyrim is independent none of its resources are diverted to an Imperial war effort.

They'd just be diverted to a Stormcloak war effort? Who require more since they're not getting things from High Rock or other provinces. They don't use mercenaries, so be a more demand to have to field these armies and arm them.

I didn't claim Rikke knows nothing, the people they sent from Cyrodiil know nothing. The Imperials are damn lucky to have her because if it wasn't for Rikke I'd hate to see how badly the war would go for them.
"Sorry, which way is Winterhelm? You know, where Count Ulfric lives."

You really think the Legion are a bunch of idiots? http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Holds_of_Skyrim

They at least wrote a small guide for new Legion Officers for the Civil War.

"Which way is Winterhelm"? Considering Windhelm was once a Legion garrison prior to the Great War. They don't call Jarls "Counts" either.

Yeah, exactly second in command. She still answers to Tullius and Cyrodiil. And of the new jarls, who is she going to influence? Brunwulf has his own plan, Brina probably already knows how Imperials run things, and Winterhold won't see any real change in her lifetime. Oh but I'm sure Maven will listen to whatever Rikke has to say.

She still provides advice to Tullius which he listens to, and he's come to respect the Nords. They do not answer to Cyrodiil, they answer to the Emperor or the Grand Marshal of the Legion. The Imperial Legion do not swear loyalty to Cyrodiil, they swear to the Emperor and to the Officers of the Legion.

Maven isn't an idiot, more powerful people have been brought down by the Legion. She won't test them. She knows how to play along, and dance a tune.

You think Skyrim will be on the same level with Cyrodiil after they've gone through war and dragons? Not to mention they were in open rebellion against them, and thier entire government has just been hand-picked by the Empire.

Stormcloaks were in open rebellion, not Skyrim. Of course Skyrim will be on the same level as Cyrodiil, it doesn't matter what they suffered. Cyrodiil and Skyrim do not outrank each other. Think of the Imperial City as it's own kingdom. Cyrodiil, just like Skyrim can have problems with that little kingdom. Both are equally represented.


There certainly isn't a Stormcloak rebellion in Cyrodiil.

No, just a lot of unrest. Cyrodiil has their own issues with the Empire's orders too.

I'm not sure how that quote proves Talos is more important to Imperials than Nords.

They're about the same.

That's nice but I'm not supporting Istlod for High King. Any form of government that let the WGC happen is not something I want Skyrim to continue to be a part of.

Yet there are those who wish to remain part of the Empire. The White-Gold Concordat was done by Titus Mede II, and no one likes the damn thing.

Do you think that the actual banning of Talos is the only thing that makes the WGC so despised? While he's unimaginably important yes, the Empire stripped its people of freedom, put its people's fate in the hands of the enemy.

People are never free in Tamriel, and their fate is always at the hands of the enemy. The Thalmor have been killing these people for over a hundred and fifty years, the Empire just opened your eyes and you see them walking about.

And if they can do it once, why can't they do it again?

They probably could do it again, but why would they? This was not done by choice, and plops doesn't always work the way you want it to. Can't prance about demanding the good, and the moment the bad happens you throw a fit and get a new regime.

And if the legion isn't even actively campaigning to get a Nordic army together I don't see a lot of Nords ending up in the legion for the war.

Why is that? They're going to refuse to fight against the Thalmor after the White-Gold Concordat is gone? They don't need to join the Legion for that. Though the Legion's training may help.

There are many Nords in the Legion now. Stop confusing Stormcloaks with all Nords.

Revolutions don't succeed through mildness. But after the war, Ulfric is no idiot, if you think he's gonna approach every problem by swinging an axe at it, you haven't paid that much attention to him.

Truly? I'm sure he'll approach each problem depending if it increases his image. Though he won't be swinging an axe, he'll be using that fancy ancient royal blade he has his blacksmith creating.

If the Concordat happens, and is eventually tossed out but no one ever spoke up about it, the Empire will realize they can impose whatever they like, and their subjects will let them get away with it.

No they won't. The Empire would fracture if they decided to impose whatever they wanted. People do speak up about it, no one wants the White-Gold Concordat. The Empire didn't do it to test to see if they can do whatever they wanted.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and all that.

Perhaps that is why the Empire is ruled not by a single man, but an Emperor and two Councils.

"We will do whatever I decide is in the best interests of Skyrim. Are we clear?" - Ulfric Stormcloak
 
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Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
You can judge us all you like, however even you know that ultimately your fate will be sealed by the Thalmor. Furthermore, Stormcloaks have yet to kick the Empire out of Skyrim, let alone unite Skyrim's 'flock' behind your cause. Thalmor have already accomplished ALL of this and more, my Thrall.

As for the women, if you should see any in uniform my suggestion is to RUN or else you had damn well better do exactly what. they. says.

"Knowledge of the enemy mage's mind is of the foremost importance. Once you know his mind, you will know his weaknesses. " - Leros Chael

Sedd Mar: Master Arctus advised Tiber Septim before the battle of Five Bridges not to commit his reserves until the enemy was victorious. Tiber Septim said, “If the enemy is already victorious, what use committing the reserve?” To which Master Arctus replied, “Only in victory will the enemy be vulnerable to defeat.” Tiber Septim went on to rout an enemy army twice the size of his.


I'm so enjoying studying up your mind my little Thalmor friend :) It wont be for long until I exposed that vulnerability of yours, and crush you down like a little skeever that you are.

Arrogance will be your downfall. You can count on that.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
They're Nords, they always ask for war. The Stormcloak cause is valid, I won't deny that. Ulfric is using it.

What do you have against Nords? Stop being racist because Nords do not ask for war. They are put into the situation where they must go to war.

Ulfric: "I would gladly retire from the world were such a day to dawn."

... Yet that information you say can end the war doesn't end it. After Ulfric hears this "important information" he kills Tullius and still wants any Legionaries killed on sight.

General Tullius is a Military General, I'm sure he understands violence too... Not sure where you're doing with that one.

Because it was too late. Trollius only brought it up to save his own ass... to use this piece of information as collateral in hopes to spare his life while his remanding loyal soldiers outside Castle Dour are laying dead because of his irresponsible course of action. To that respects I can almost see why Emperor Titus Mede II refuse to give Trollius more soldiers at his disposal. I credit Titus Mede II for not giving in to such temptation of a blood thirsty General.

You're really under the assumption that I'm saying Ulfric is the only violent one. The men of violence are gathered here, in these halls whose very stones are dedicated to peace.

I don't give a pl*** about what Tullius does, he isn't trying to lead Skyrim. He's there doing his job, and he will remain for several years. During which the Moot will meet, and the Jarls will vote for their King or Queen.

Obsessed with decapitations? You're in a medieval setting, I'm sure the Jarls cut off the heads of certain criminals. Or they get the guard to do it, depends on the Jarl. I'm sure Ulfric is more the hands on type.

With Elisif's lack of political and military experience Trollius might as well lead Skyrim.

"Everyone knows General Tullius wields the real power Solitude. Elisif? Ah, she's a figurehead. A puppet." - Odar (The cook)

Like Trollius Ulfric also there to do his job as a proud Nord of Skyrim.

That is true. We are in a medieval setting, however from my observation tells me that the most common settings for execution is by starvation in a cell/cage and being tortured to death in the rack.

You're right, Tullius is a serial killer...
Might as well. He certainly has the aptitude of being one ;)
 

Ancano

High Justiciar
You can judge us all you like, however even you know that ultimately your fate will be sealed by the Thalmor. Furthermore, Stormcloaks have yet to kick the Empire out of Skyrim, let alone unite Skyrim's 'flock' behind your cause. Thalmor have already accomplished ALL of this and more, my Thrall.

As for the women, if you should see any in uniform my suggestion is to RUN or else you had damn well better do exactly what. they. says.

"Knowledge of the enemy mage's mind is of the foremost importance. Once you know his mind, you will know his weaknesses. " - Leros Chael

Sedd Mar: Master Arctus advised Tiber Septim before the battle of Five Bridges not to commit his reserves until the enemy was victorious. Tiber Septim said, “If the enemy is already victorious, what use committing the reserve?” To which Master Arctus replied, “Only in victory will the enemy be vulnerable to defeat.” Tiber Septim went on to rout an enemy army twice the size of his.


I'm so enjoying studying up your mind my little Thalmor friend :) It wont be for long until I exposed that vulnerability of yours, and crush you down like a little skeever that you are.

Arrogance will be your downfall. You can count on that.


Be careful what you wish for...


"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you."

- Friedrich Nietzsche
 

Rimfaxe96

Well-Known Member
"
Couldn't hold onto Hammerfell or Cyrodiil for the Great War.

We'll take it back, no worries.

Right cause the Thalmor are going to figure out where the Blades are located? The temple had been hidden for Eras, and the only book showing the location Esbern has.

Imperials are hoarding powerful artifacts too, not sure what they're doing with it. Safe keeping or study? I don't know.

They tortured it out of other Blades, the new ones won't be any different.

Chances are most of the artifacts hoarded by the Imperials are now in Alinor. White-Gold Tower was looted during the sack of the Imprial City; conquerors tend to grab everything that isn't nailed down.

This is the Third Empire, it took a decade or more to create. Second Empire had everything except Morrowind, and the First Empire well their borders were unknown given that regions and borders hadn't been set.

If you hadn't noticed, the Thalmor take their time. Elves tend to have longer lifespans, take things slow. So just wait it out and don't expect Tiber Septim 2.0 with pointed ears to happen.

Both sides end up focusing on the Thalmor.

And when does that happen? After the main quest the Imperials try to stabilize the area, same counts for the Stormcloaks who just began their rule (if you play their questline). Neither focus on the Thalmo, although Tullius a little more Ulfric while the latter is busy describing his life to the folk at the Bards College I guess. Boo flffing hoo, we're so afraid of listening to bad-written poetry.

Still managed to get her hands on an invitation.

Likely with someone's help. It's not like it's that hard to track an ill-gotten invitation, and even though they don't like the Thalmor they still won't mess things up too often. Wouldn't dare to;

I really shouldn't risk getting on Elenwen's bad side.
I don't think so. Sorry. I would love to help you, but Elenwen can be very vindictive. I wouldn't want to get on her bad side.


Cause a bunch of Thalmor Justiciars are going to assault a fortress? Considering they don't read Akaviri, they're going to have a hard time getting the first bridge down. Then the pressure traps and finally if the Blades decide to close the front door... You need that Dragonborn's blood.

She is recruiting, but only people the Dragonborn brought.

Sky Haven Temple has more entrances than just that, since after some time Esbern spends his time squatting somewhere outside. The only annoying thing about its location would be the Forsworn.

And as easily removed. Well placed bribes by Imperial Agents and the nobles call for another Jarl...

And who? His retired paranoia-plagued uncle?

We will see, and we'll be taking those tailors over. Empire could use some nice coats.

You can't expect those awesome robes to look good on the smaller races. Just look at those Altmer, they're like walking wardrobe-tanks.

They warned you, and named you Arch-Mage. They're not above destroying a fleet of ships, and I'm sure they wouldn't really care about the Thalmor dying.

Maybe, but then they might as well destroy the entire population of Alinor. They're all united under the Thalmor ideology, killing a few leaders won't change a thing. Even if someday the Empire would set foot on that island again they'd have to be "denazified"; you'd have to remove Thalmor influence from society completely.

There were fierce battles, and yet these ships proved no help when the Legions wiped out Naarifin's host? Did the ships flee off home, or were they destroyed... Or were they silly and docked at the Imperial City and we have them.

Can't tell because there's no report about it. Seeing how Runil escaped I wonder if what is called "whole main army" in the book "The Great War" was just the military force inside the Imperial City and its immediate surroundings, not all forces in Cyrodiil.

Glorious Mede took the Aldmeri head-on, wiped out an entire main army. The other one was left weakened and on the run in Hammerfell.

And would have left his civil population to die. Don't give Mede that much credit, those few smart generals he had did a few nice moves as well.

Unusual_ulfric.jpg


"As you can see, I have much that requires my attention. If you're inclined to gab, there are some nice prison guards you may like to meet..."
-
Ulfric Stormcloak

"Enjoy this while you can. Soon you will all be slaves."
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar

“Arrogance on the part of the meritorious is even more offensive to us than the arrogance of those without merit: for merit itself is offensive.”

Friedrich Nietzsche

Arrogance will be your downfall for sure my Thalmor friend. You will never get the meritorious attention that you so desire. You will never have the chance to rule Tamriel, especially Skyrim. It is nice to dream doesn't it? :)
 

Ancano

High Justiciar

“Arrogance on the part of the meritorious is even more offensive to us than the arrogance of those without merit: for merit itself is offensive.”

Friedrich Nietzsche

Arrogance will be your downfall for sure my Thalmor friend. You will never get the meritorious attention that you so desire. You will never have the chance to rule Tamriel, especially Skyrim. It is nice to dream doesn't it? :)


lmao. Didn't I tell u? Only High Elves belong on the High Ground. Sit down before u fall down. :)
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar

“Arrogance on the part of the meritorious is even more offensive to us than the arrogance of those without merit: for merit itself is offensive.”

Friedrich Nietzsche

Arrogance will be your downfall for sure my Thalmor friend. You will never get the meritorious attention that you so desire. You will never have the chance to rule Tamriel, especially Skyrim. It is nice to dream doesn't it? :)


lmao. Didn't I tell u? Only High Elves belong on the High Ground. Sit down before u fall down. :)

4d.gif


Oh please tell me more about the high elves.
 
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