Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[DrunkenMage]

By Tiber I meant Tiber's forces.

And? He would still have had some small garrisons. Stormcloaks aren't keeping their forces in Skyrim.

After, the war Skyrim can focus on Skyrim. Seems like a pretty good idea. There's probably a Nord wanting to join a militia every day, so they can probably manage themselves at least as well as the Legion would.

I'm sure they can, except it'll be longer without the aid of the entire Empire. Now if the Great War was to break out, Stormcloaks are still leaving Skyrim. Though I'm sure planning to enslave the Reachmen won't make issues worse, don't want to underestimate those bastards.

There is probably a Nord wanting to join the Legion everyday. Skyrim is split in a Civil War, and there isn't this "Well Nords would prefer the Stormcloak... They wouldn't join the Legion" That is just false. There are many Nords who support the Empire, and countless Nords still part of the Ruby ranks.

Skyrim has always focused on Skyrim. Though the free trade and resources given by the Empire are good for the people of Skyrim.

Who says we don't use mercanaries? The EETC, stationed in Windhelm, says there are no mercanaries availible because they're all fighting the war.

"We're not looking for sellswords." - Galmar

Yes, we can still import things, I'd imagine if not direct allies Hammerfell would at least increase trade with them, the EETC still operates.

You don't have much money, majority of the Holds have become quite poor due to the Civil War. The EETC makes money for the Empire, and Ulfric plans to rid Skyrim of all Imperial influence. Most likely he'd prefer to use the other shipping company owned by the Nord.

Without being part of the Empire, all those resources and food which was given for next to nothing and the benefits of free trade no longer happen. Higher taxes on trade, and prices raising. The Dunmer in the Dragonborn dlc make mention to the EETC draining them of every last coin.

I guess no ones reading it, because the bloody LEGATES don't know they're called jarls.
That was a joke, and you're right they call them "kings" correct?

The Legates do know they're called Jarls, they correct themselves. Jarls and Kings are interchangable, and throughout lore you will see mention to the Jarls being called Kings or Queens.

To clear things up (I thought it was obvious) when I say "Cyrodiil" I mean the Elder Council, Emporer, the Imperial Government in general.

So by Cyrodiil, you mean Imperial City?

Well I'm sure Maven has both of our best interests in mind.

She does plan to defend her city at least. She looks after her own interests, but her heirs are puppets. She is aging.

Though at least she isn't given potions to "fuel ambitions", the real head of the Silver-Bloods is given potions to influence him. Sure the Silver-Blood Jarl is head by title, but the power of the family comes from his brother.

We know for a fact Cyrodiil has come first for long time.

The protection of the Imperial City, royal family and Inner Council come first. Though you don't know for a fact, because I seem to recall it being mentioned during Oblivion that some Counts were very angry with the Elder Council because they cared nothing for Cyrodiil.

During the Great War the Legion and Emperor abandoned Cyrodiil to regroup in Skyrim for the winter, while they planned a last ditch offensive to recapture the Imperial City, else they would lose the war.

Just comparing cities in Oblivion to the other games you can see they're wealthier.

Really? Cyrodiil is bad because they're wealthy? That has nothing to do with coming first, that has everything to do with the location of the province and the landscape. Cyrodiil is a trade hub of Tamriel, it also has a lot of fertile lands. Imperials were smart enough to build proper roads, patrol and secure those roads with forts. Escorting trade and making money off the tariffs.

How else do you think Alessia got some Nord warriors on her side? She offered them fertile lands in exchange, and the Nords settled in the lands given to them. So even Nords could see that Cyrodiil was the better landscape back in the First Era.

You simply can't expect cities in Skyrim to truly compare, given they're in the northern most region of Tamriel, surrounded by a harsh climate and not all that much merchant traffic passes through Skyrim. Whiterun and Solitude would be quite wealthy, being that Solitude has a really good port and Whiterun is the trade hub of Skyrim. Riften used to be quite good too, until it was burnt to the ground in an uprising against the Jarl. They saw a lot of business, and their lake was used quite a lot by merchants etc.

In the Oblivion Crisis they pulled troops from Morrowind,

That happened under Ocato, and the Oblivion Crisis was chaos.

and in the Great War they tried to pull troops from Hammerfell (thank goodness Decianus had a heart).

To defeat the army that controlled the Imperial City. They didn't make Cyrodiil priority until the last ditch offense. Had Cyrodiil truly come first, Hammerfell would have been abandoned the moment Aldmeri forces invaded Cyrodiil.

And Cyrodiil was not even close to being as affected from the Concordat as the other provinces were.

Besides Cyrodiil in ruins, and everything nearly destroyed. Cyrodiil wasn't affected? The Talos Ban affects Cyrodiil, the bloody loved Talos.

Sorry, you'll have to convince me a little better than that that Talos is loved by Imperials as much as Nords.

... Are you serious? Play Oblivion if you don't believe the Imperials were religious and loved Talos. They speak about the Nine constantly, not to mention there is an entire section of a city called "Talos Plaza"

Wars have been fought in Tamriel for far less significant things than disposing of the Thalmor regime. I don't know what to say if Mede thought he needed the Concordat to open people's eyes.

Wars have been fought for a number of reasons, I'm sure independent Skyrim will enjoy all their wars.

He needed the Concordat to regain strength and rebuild.

Why would Ulfric need to keep doing things to better his image if he's already High King? The image thing is to attract jarls and soldiers. If he was really that concerned about image, why does he need so much convincing to go after the Jagged Crown?

He didn't believe it was there. He cares about his image, but not to the point of just chasing stuff he doesn't believe exists.

So every future Emporer and Elder Council member is a guaranteed angel? The next time something iffy is proposed, they'll look to the WGC and say, "well that worked out nicely, everyone went along with it,"

Not at all. However a single Elder Council member can't do much without the support of the rest. They're not all bad people, some members are quite good.

Really? They'll look at the WGC and decide to do bad plops? What are they pure evil? Skyrim has to agree to the bad plops, and so does High Rock. So if the Empire decides "Lets increase taxes 110%" then they will get those taxes, until revolts start happening. People will rise up against their Jarls/Kings and some rulers will go against the Empire.

The Empire can't just do whatever it wants. When it does, bad plops happens to them.

Oh come on, because those two disagree so often recently? How come we never hear about how the Council trying to reject the WGC?

Emperor and Council disagree a lot throughout history. Oh... the small detail how the hell would we even know about that? The Council and Emperors sessions are behind closed doors, in the Imperial City. Which person should tell us this information? The Emperor? Motierre? "Hey assassin, can I tell you my life story?"

Only person we get for Cyrodiil is Tullius who is only a Legion General, the Emperor who gets killed and Motierre who makes little hints about a change in policy.

The moot still exists, and that quote didn't really help you either.

"But now Skyrim is at Ulfric's mercy. The moot will meet and choose Ulfric as High King. With his troops in most of the cities, they have little choice."

"best interests of Skyrim"

"Whatever I decide is"

 

[DrunkenMage]

Just want to point out the "Ulfric can't handle a single murderer in his city" argument has zero credibility considering Solitude is home to Jaree-ra, and an entire boatload of Imperial supplies is lost from the extinguishing of a single fire.

That single fire was the lighthouse... Though it is good you mention this, as you've just destroyed your argument of how the Empire is only using Skyrim's supplies.

"With the war, many more ships come through these docks. Loaded with weapons and pay, but few people. And they pass through dangerous waters. We have an interest in one of those boats, the Icerunner." - Jaree-Ra

The ship was transporting passengers and cargo between Skyrim and Cyrodiil. - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Icerunner

Cheers, just proved that supplies are coming from Cyrodiil.

 

[Ancano]

The Empire provides Skyrim with economic and political power in much of Tamriel. Basically, the Empire is the driving force of the Nords and Imperials in which gives power to the two. An independent Skyrim means much smaller economic power, strength, and a weaker nation over all. As for the customs of Nords, well, of course the ban on Talos is an issue specific to the Aldmeri Dominion. The Stormcloaks should make their foolish selves useful, and instead bring a war to the Aldmeri Dominion. If that were to start a second Great War, than Skyrim is to stand by the Empire. The Empire is beneficial, the Aldmeri Dominion is not.

I think the Aldmeri have *contributed* a great deal to Tamriel. If you can get over your blatant Elven bias, then perhaps you could learn to respect the fact the Aldmeri have earned the right to rule at least part of Tamriel. All man has done is drive us out and build their fake Empires on top of everything we made possible.

You would have no Empire if it weren't for the Ayleids and Direnni. That's ok though, it's alright. I still think Tamriel needs the Empire to keep the kingdoms of man in line and it needs the Dominion to protect the Elven Kingdoms.

There is peace now, and that peace will continue for as long as it suits our needs. But make no mistake, this is not a peace forged out of necessity between rival nations of equal strength. It is more like the calm between storms. And the next storm, I think, will be far deadlier than the last.

You are right sir, the Altermi Dominion has contributed to Tamriel, that have caused numerous wars and pointless deaths. And again, you are right, the Altmer have earned the right to rule at least part of Tamriel, it's called the Summerset Isles. As for our empires, well, they have reached the economic power that you elves are yet to match. You may stay a dagger in the back of men, and take our qualities, but you will not reach our organization or power.

And sir, what have you elves done for our Empire? Besides kill us, that is. The empires have kept all of us alive. I'm not sure what Morrowind could ever do for us, that is to exceed are own achievements.

And there is little peace to be had yet. Peace is on paper. Men and their blood are on the cold ground, slain to your Dominion. Our great Empire is suffering at your hands. We suffer because of your "peace." Mind you, one day the Empire will succeed, and the Dominion will tremble at the power of men and their empires.

ROFLMAO

Ok. If that's what you believe, help yourself. This is why we're going to need a Second Great War. Men are very stubborn... I see we have more work to do.

How low does the Thalmor have to drag you before you will see the light?

 

[Ancano]

Just want to point out the "Ulfric can't handle a single murderer in his city" argument has zero credibility considering Solitude is home to Jaree-ra, and an entire boatload of Imperial supplies is lost from the extinguishing of a single fire.

That single fire was the lighthouse... Though it is good you mention this, as you've just destroyed your argument of how the Empire is only using Skyrim's supplies.

"With the war, many more ships come through these docks. Loaded with weapons and pay, but few people. And they pass through dangerous waters. We have an interest in one of those boats, the Icerunner." - Jaree-Ra

The ship was transporting passengers and cargo between Skyrim and Cyrodiil. - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Icerunner

Cheers, just proved that supplies are coming from Cyrodiil.

Told you guys. I hate it when people waste my time *gives ugly look in Stormcloaks general direction*. Security system working out for ya is it?

 

[DrunkenMage]

ROFLMAO

Ok. If that's what you believe, help yourself. This is why we're going to need a Second Great War. Men are very stubborn... I see we have more work to do.

How low does the Thalmor have to drag you before you will see the light?

How many Thalmor Lords do we have to hang off towers for a month before they see the light?

I'm sure Thalmor leadership will look dashing in their fine outfits, dangling hundreds of feet in the air off the White-Gold Tower. The rest of you lowly ranked runts can all have your heads situated along the walls of the various districts. I've heard Altmer skin turns a lovely shade after rotting for a few days on a spike.

Amazing view and no rent to boot? Can't beat Imperial hospitality.

 

[Ancano]

ROFLMAO

Ok. If that's what you believe, help yourself. This is why we're going to need a Second Great War. Men are very stubborn... I see we have more work to do.

How low does the Thalmor have to drag you before you will see the light?

How many Thalmor Lords do we have to hang off towers for a month before they see the light?

I'm sure Thalmor leadership will look dashing in their fine outfits, dangling hundreds of feet in the air off the White-Gold Tower. The rest of you lowly ranked runts can all have your heads situated along the walls of the various districts. I've heard Altmer skin turns a lovely shade after rotting for a few days on a spike.

Amazing view and no rent to boot? Can't beat Imperial hospitality.

The cost was quite high yes? We made you pay for every. inch. of. Cyrodil. And the way in which you did Lord Naarifin is what all of you... can look forward to next time.

If this... THIS is what drives your Empire to greatness with all the "Agrees" and such, then you deserve to be purged.

Cyrodil in ruins, Empire existing in name only, poor economy, lots of jobs maybe but heavy taxes. No friends either, well you sold them all out to cover Cyrodil's a$$ and now Skyrim is woken up and saying "insufficient funds". Petty little Civil War that you neither had the power to prevent or to stop amicably.

You won the war true, however at what cost? Talk about Arrogance. You'll see what I mean later on.

 

[Raijin]

Somehow I'm not so certain everyone else is playing by your rules.

You know, I do respect the fact that you Stormcloaks are willing to fight so hard for your Freedom(s). Fighting against the world it seems.

Hah you know Skyrim once ruled a good chunk of Tamriel and now, you've been reduced to subservient trolls to an Empire that's turned you into little second hand bastards and tells you to just go to your room whenever you try and discuss how bad things have gotten.

That would probably drive me to start offing people too. Hard to be reasonable with people whom you know don't want to reason with you.

Still... flff u guys I play to win... however that does not mean I'm the only winner.

You have it all wrong my dear Thalmor friend It is you that is fighting against the world because you're so unhappy about yourselves that you want others around you to suffer as well. We Stormcloaks are only fighting for Skyrim's independence and want to be left alone in peace, and the full right to worship whatever damn gods we want.

We don't need the Empire to governed us, and we especially don't want no damn golden skin knife ears telling us what we can and cannot do on our own land.

Now if you take your knife ears back to your small little country and piss off

 

[Ancano]

Looks like the Empire has defeated the Stormcloaks in this debate.

Somehow I'm not so certain everyone else is playing by your rules.

You know, I do respect the fact that you Stormcloaks are willing to fight so hard for your Freedom(s). Fighting against the world it seems.

Hah you know Skyrim once ruled a good chunk of Tamriel and now, you've been reduced to subservient trolls to an Empire that's turned you into little second hand bastards and tells you to just go to your room whenever you try and discuss how bad things have gotten.

That would probably drive me to start offing people too. Hard to be reasonable with people whom you know don't want to reason with you.

Still... flff u guys I play to win... however that does not mean I'm the only winner.

You have it all wrong my dear Thalmor friend It is you that is fighting against the world because you're so unhappy about yourselves that you want others around you to suffer as well. We Stormcloaks are only fighting for Skyrim's independence and want to be left alone in peace, and the full right to worship whatever damn gods we want.

We don't need the Empire to governed us, and we especially don't want no damn golden skin knife ears telling us what we can and cannot do on our own land.

Now if you take your knife ears back to your small little country and piss off

@Raijin

Yeah no. Shut down the PR Bullpl*ps.

Ulfric and Galmar BOTH Contradict you. They have no intention of being left in *peace*. Peace is not what they're after and you would understand if you were a Stormcloak. My Thalmor friend.

So you can't stand up to DrunkenMage, you're making excuses and God knows I don't have time for that. So please piss off yourself... or is it piss yourself off? Whatever.

 

[Ancano]

Was just looking at that picture from the College. Damm do I look good. FFS

Better than dressing up in a... kettle & teapot set or esp better than wearing some bear's arse over my head. If Raijin doesn't leave me alone I swear to Gawd I'll turn you into some kind of dumbass hat.​

 

[General Charles Xander]

Was just looking at that picture from the College. Damm do I look good. FFS

Better than dressing up in a... kettle & teapot set or esp better than wearing some bear's arse over my head. If Raijin doesn't leave me alone I swear to Gawd I'll turn you into some kind of dumbass hat.​

I don't know, the quality of that photo actually makes you look pretty ugly. Though, that's no excuse...

Sorry, you set yourself up for that one!

 

[DrunkenMage]

ROFLMAO

Ok. If that's what you believe, help yourself. This is why we're going to need a Second Great War. Men are very stubborn... I see we have more work to do.

How low does the Thalmor have to drag you before you will see the light?

How many Thalmor Lords do we have to hang off towers for a month before they see the light?

I'm sure Thalmor leadership will look dashing in their fine outfits, dangling hundreds of feet in the air off the White-Gold Tower. The rest of you lowly ranked runts can all have your heads situated along the walls of the various districts. I've heard Altmer skin turns a lovely shade after rotting for a few days on a spike.

Amazing view and no rent to boot? Can't beat Imperial hospitality.

The cost was quite high yes? We made you pay for every. inch. of. Cyrodil. And the way in which you did Lord Naarifin is what all of you... can look forward to next time.

If this... THIS is what drives your Empire to greatness with all the "Agrees" and such, then you deserve to be purged.

Cyrodil in ruins, Empire existing in name only, poor economy, lots of jobs maybe but heavy taxes. No friends either, well you sold them all out to cover Cyrodil's a$$ and now Skyrim is woken up and saying "insufficient funds". Petty little Civil War that you neither had the power to prevent or to stop amicably.

You won the war true, however at what cost? Talk about Arrogance. You'll see what I mean later on.

You Thalmor think you can bring the Imperials down? Cyrodiil has been ruined again and again, and yet it rises from the rubble. You elves made the mistake of enslaving the Imperials, because for all that torture and endless labour you didn't break them... You only made them stronger.

The Dominion had one chance, the Empire was weak, unprepared and complacent in their limited holdings. One hundred and seventy years of plotting and preparing... Yet the Empire, given days to prepare for a full-scale invasion is still standing.

Stormcloak rebellion or not, Cyrodiil has awoken, reborn in the fires of the Great War. The Empire proved it would not simply roll over without a blooding, and don't forget that the Legion is coming. Thalmor can boast, they can walk around speaking ill of the Empire, but it won't last.

So enjoy it while you can. For when the Imperials are done with you, the Thalmor and the Aldmeri Dominion of the Fourth Era will be nothing but a footnote in some dusty book found next to the toilet bucket in a bandit controlled fort.

 

[Raijin]

Looks like the Empire has defeated the Stormcloaks in this debate.



@Raijin

Yeah no. Shut down the PR Bullpl*ps.

Ulfric and Galmar BOTH Contradict you. They have no intention of being left in *peace*. Peace is not what they're after and you would understand if you were a Stormcloak. My Thalmor friend.

So you can't stand up to DrunkenMage, you're making excuses and God knows I don't have time for that. So please piss off yourself... or is it piss yourself off? Whatever.

What is your strong obsession with DrunkenMage? Why must you use him to make your point across? If you want to know... Yes. I can stand up to him, and I have in the past.

Green skin knife ears should learn their place in the packing order.

 

[Raijin]

Oh my goodness... what is Ancano doing to his lover, Estormo, at the college? Take it easy there tiger.

Save it for the honeymoon

 

[Ancano]

Was just looking at that picture from the College. Damm do I look good. FFS

Better than dressing up in a... kettle & teapot set or esp better than wearing some bear's arse over my head. If Raijin doesn't leave me alone I swear to Gawd I'll turn you into some kind of dumbass hat.​

I don't know, the quality of that photo actually makes you look pretty ugly. Though, that's no excuse...

Sorry, you set yourself up for that one!

Don't be hatin'

 

[Ancano]

Oh my goodness... what is Ancano doing to his lover, Estormo, at the college? Take it easy there tiger.

Save it for the honeymoon

Yeah you're weird. You keep that to yourself and stay far away from me.

 

[Ancano]

How many Thalmor Lords do we have to hang off towers for a month before they see the light?

I'm sure Thalmor leadership will look dashing in their fine outfits, dangling hundreds of feet in the air off the White-Gold Tower. The rest of you lowly ranked runts can all have your heads situated along the walls of the various districts. I've heard Altmer skin turns a lovely shade after rotting for a few days on a spike.

Amazing view and no rent to boot? Can't beat Imperial hospitality.

The cost was quite high yes? We made you pay for every. inch. of. Cyrodil. And the way in which you did Lord Naarifin is what all of you... can look forward to next time.

If this... THIS is what drives your Empire to greatness with all the "Agrees" and such, then you deserve to be purged.

Cyrodil in ruins, Empire existing in name only, poor economy, lots of jobs maybe but heavy taxes. No friends either, well you sold them all out to cover Cyrodil's a$$ and now Skyrim is woken up and saying "insufficient funds". Petty little Civil War that you neither had the power to prevent or to stop amicably.

You won the war true, however at what cost? Talk about Arrogance. You'll see what I mean later on.

You Thalmor think you can bring the Imperials down? Cyrodiil has been ruined again and again, and yet it rises from the rubble. You elves made the mistake of enslaving the Imperials, because for all that torture and endless labour you didn't break them... You only made them stronger.

The Dominion had one chance, the Empire was weak, unprepared and complacent in their limited holdings. One hundred and seventy years of plotting and preparing... Yet the Empire, given days to prepare for a full-scale invasion is still standing.

Stormcloak rebellion or not, Cyrodiil has awoken, reborn in the fires of the Great War. The Empire proved it would not simply roll over without a blooding, and don't forget that the Legion is coming. Thalmor can boast, they can walk around speaking ill of the Empire, but it won't last.

So enjoy it while you can. For when the Imperials are done with you, the Thalmor and the Aldmeri Dominion of the Fourth Era will be nothing but a footnote in some dusty book found next to the toilet bucket in a bandit controlled fort.

Yeah probably right. Don't get too flustered my friend until you can at least leave your hospital bed. I'll send you a card once in a while. Maybe.

 

[DrunkenMage]

What is your strong obsession with DrunkenMage? Why must you use him to make your point across? If you want to know... Yes. I can stand up to him, and I have in the past.

Why am I always used as some argument point, it has happened several times.

Raijin and I have disagreed since day once, but even though we get into heated debates. We still friends, always willing to jump to my defense if someone starts throwing personal insults... I LOVE YOU BRO! I promise I'll cry a little while I stab you to end the Stormcloak regime.

Green skin knife ears should learn their place in the packing order.

"You are the best and the brightest warriors in Tamriel. Professional soldiers, fearless and devastating."

 

[DrunkenMage]

So that is how the Imperial shield works, the points dig into the ground for a phalanx formation.

Damn, I wish Bethesda kept closer to their concept artwork for the Legion. Now that is a beast.

 

[Raijin]

Why am I always used as some argument point, it has happened several times.

Raijin and I have disagreed since day once, but even though we get into heated debates. We still friends, always willing to jump to my defense if someone starts throwing personal insults... I LOVE YOU BRO! I promise I'll cry a little while I stab you to end the Stormcloak regime.

You're absolutely right We may have our little disagreements, but at the end of the day we are friends that will back jump into each other defense if theirs any personal insults being thrown.

I LOVE YOU TOO BRO!

"You are the best and the brightest warriors in Tamriel. Professional soldiers, fearless and devastating."

Ulfric: "Secure the door."
Galmar: "Already done."
Rikke: "Ulfric. Stop."
Ulfric: "Stop what? Taking Skyrim back from those who'd leave her to rot?"
Rikke: "You're wrong. Ulfric. We need the Empire. Without it Skyrim will assuredly fall to the Dominion."
Galmar: "You were there with us. You saw it. The day the Empire signed that damn treaty was the day the Empire died."
Ulfric: "The Empire is weak, obsolete. Look at how far we've come and with so little. When we're done rooting out Imperial influence here at home, then we will take our war to the Aldmeri Dominion."
Rikke: "You're a damn fool."
Galmar: "Stand aside woman. We've come for the General."
Rikke: "He has given up. But I have not."
Ulfric: "Rikke. Go. You're free to leave."
Rikke: "I'm also free to stay and fight for what I believe in."
Ulfric: "You're also free to die for it."
Rikke: "This is what you wanted? Shield brothers and sisters killing each other? Families torn apart? This is the Skyrim you want?!"
Galmar: "Damnit woman, stand aside."
Rikke: "That's not the Skyrim I want to live in."
Ulfric: "Rikke. You don't have to do this."
Rikke: "You've left me no choice... Talos preserve us."

Yeah only if you're Nord.

 

[Raijin]

Yeah you're weird. You keep that to yourself and stay far away from me.

Don't be too ashamed for your endless dying love for your own comrades now. No need to be embarrassed