Ysgramor, Hero or Murderous Savage?

[Mookie]

You act like Falmer and Snow Elves are the same thing. Time has gone on so long they arent't at least in my mind. For example Falmer fill normal soul gems. Yup that means they are no longer "Sentient" Basically the Falmar are de-evolved to the point they are lower level than say cave man to a modern human. Falmar are how they are do to Dewmer torture and experimentation the Falmer don't hate people because they remember what caused them to be like this. They are basically aggressive animals.
Though the slaves bring up an interesting question. Are these Beastial falmer somehow smart enough similar to ants and other "civilization" creatures that they might be slowly re-evolving back?

The soul gems have a lot to do with sentience. And considering that falmer are still taking in those glowing mushrooms then that might have influence. They are curently an equivalent to homo erectus in our evolutionary line. But they seem to actualy develop.
My guess is that they are getting adapted to effects of the mushrooms and as such the loss of cognitive skills is lowering with each passing day.
As for slaves, idk why would they defend the falmer to death, even though they are being fed to the chaurus or in some cases eaten by falmer themselves.
My guess is magic

 

[Kory Stukenborg]

Hero because how can you progress without war. War is the building block of progression (except in Hitler's case.)
Would the English Colonists ever progressed into the U.S. without killing many of Native Americans (God bless their souls.)

 

[Daelon DuLac]

You act like Falmer and Snow Elves are the same thing. Time has gone on so long they arent't at least in my mind. For example Falmer fill normal soul gems. Yup that means they are no longer "Sentient" Basically the Falmar are de-evolved to the point they are lower level than say cave man to a modern human. Falmar are how they are do to Dewmer torture and experimentation the Falmer don't hate people because they remember what caused them to be like this. They are basically aggressive animals.
Though the slaves bring up an interesting question. Are these Beastial falmer somehow smart enough similar to ants and other "civilization" creatures that they might be slowly re-evolving back?

You should ride the train home with me some days. I'm not sure if "modern humans" could even fill a common soul gem in many of their cases.

 

[Seanu Reaves]

You should ride the train home with me some days. I'm not sure if "modern humans" could even fill a common soul gem in many of their cases.

Even if they are stupid they are sentient.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

Even if they are stupid they are sentient.

I'll take your word for that.

 

[Acid Raindrops]

He probably took vengeance a little too far.

 

[Mookie]

He basicaly prevented any further conflicts between men and falmer

 

[Gearuvagen]

He basicaly prevented any further conflicts between men and falmer

Through genocide how heroic. He took it too far.

 

[Mookie]

Through genocide how heroic. He took it too far.

More men and elves would die trough conflicts in 4000 years since.
One of them would become exactly like forsworn and fight non-stop for what they believe is theirs

 

[Gearuvagen]

for what was theirs (the Falmer's) .
and you can't say definitively that they would have fought forever there could have been peace, prosperity maybe even a new race. Like Bretons only better.

 

[Mookie]

for what was theirs (the Falmer's) .
and you can't say definitively that they would have fought forever there could have been peace, prosperity maybe even a new race. Like Bretons only better.

I doubt that. The nords would be suspicious of any peace or alliance, because elves stabed them in the back and killed every nord they could get their hands on.
There would be peace for 20 years and then war, and then 20 years peace and war and it would go on and on for 4000 years with more casualties and anihilation of one or the other

 

[Gearuvagen]

Supposition, we can't draw a full conclusion as we don't know nearly enough, We know that Elves attacked Saarthal over the Eye of Magnus, we don't know why the Nords had it or how they "found" it. We don't know if the Nords were protecting the Eye or attempting to do what Ancano did and the Elves were attempting to stop its misuse. All we can do is posit these hypotheticals. All I can say is hatred very rarely lasts eons and time heals all wounds, an alliance between the Nords and Falmer would have been a right powerful thing.

 

[Mookie]

Supposition, we can't draw a full conclusion as we don't know nearly enough, We know that Elves attacked Saarthal over the Eye of Magnus, we don't know why the Nords had it or how they "found" it. We don't know if the Nords were protecting the Eye or attempting to do what Ancano did and the Elves were attempting to stop its misuse. All we can do is posit these hypotheticals. All I can say is hatred very rarely lasts eons and time heals all wounds, an alliance between the Nords and Falmer would have been a right powerful thing.

I dont see the evidence of missuse or anything. If the nords wanted to use it they could have. But they didnt which means that elves were after power. They were allies and it would be good to say something like, hey lets not use that, lets burry it somewhere instead of

 

[Acid Raindrops]

 

[Pretty Vampires]

Akatush: I wuv you so much!

*catches a disease*

Akatush: Aw fk off

 

[Blackwhite1223]

Although I play as a Nord, I'd still say Ysgramor was a Savage. Fighting in defense of his people, I can see as okay, but not wiping out most, if not all of a species, forcing them underground, and to a point, forcing them into the pathetic creatures they are today. If Ysgramor hadn't been so caught up with trying to get 'vengeance' for Saarthal,I can't see four thousand years of warfare going on. Eventually both sides would have been forced to come to a compromise, like it or not. Realistically, no race in Tamriel would be able to, nor want to wage endless war. It simply isn't possible. Ysgramor did what he did out of hatred for the Snow elves. I won't say the snow elves didn't equally hate the Nords, but still. Genocide wasn't the answer. Definite savage.

 

[Mookie]

Although I play as a Nord, I'd still say Ysgramor was a Savage. Fighting in defense of his people, I can see as okay, but not wiping out most, if not all of a species, forcing them underground, and to a point, forcing them into the pathetic creatures they are today. If Ysgramor hadn't been so caught up with trying to get 'vengeance' for Saarthal,I can't see four thousand years of warfare going on. Eventually both sides would have been forced to come to a compromise, like it or not. Realistically, no race in Tamriel would be able to, nor want to wage endless war. It simply isn't possible. Ysgramor did what he did out of hatred for the Snow elves. I won't say the snow elves didn't equally hate the Nords, but still. Genocide wasn't the answer. Definite savage.

Look at some conflict points in the world. The Balkans are the best examples of such a conflict.
You have Bosnians and Albanians as descendants of Illyrians who lived there since time before rome and greek states.
(Bosnians are slavicised though so they speak slavic language)
And you have serbs and croats, slavs who came to that area in 8th century. There is a constant state of conflict even during peace. Exactly because there was no clear winner in any of the wars there.

 

[Blackwhite1223]

So genocide is the best way to get a clear winner?

 

[Mookie]

So genocide is the best way to get a clear winner?

Not in todays terms. But 4000 years ago in our world it would be acceptable. And would stop war

 

[Blackwhite1223]

Obviously, we aren't talking about what they thought was acceptable 4,000 years ago. The Nords were out to claim Skyrim, no matter the cost. Ysgramor is made to look like a hero because he effectively allowed that to happen. The Nords, being who they are, didn't give a damn about anything else. And if it would have been acceptable, why aren't there more genocides in TES lore? Why didn't the Argonians wipe out the Dark Elves, or vice versa?