Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

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Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
I try to leave this place, but Raijin's stupidity keeps dragging me in.
The Empire was regathering resources and troops to take the fight back to the Dominion, but there was this asshole who got in the way of that. I won't mention any names, but we all know who it was. And stop labeling the Empire as the enemy. They are not, it's the Dominion. Cryodiil and the Imperial City was in ruin, the Emperor did what he thought was best and I happen to agree with him. Temporary banning of a certain god being worshiped and IT NOT EVEN BEING ENFORCED isn't that big of a deal. Stop making it out to be.
And stop comparing a medieval game world to real world events. We've been through this, it doesn't work. Real world civil rights does not apply to a fictional game world. And as I've said numerous times in this joke of a thread, clearly the Empire didn't want to take any chances and wanted the war over and done with then and there. Which is why Ulfric and his Stormcocks were getting executed then and there. Only an idiot loving Ulfric's dick would think the man wasn't guilty of anything.

If my post is so stupid, as you claim it to be then why do you keep rebutting my posts? I suppose their not as stupid as you claim it to be :)

@11 Doctor you never ceases to amaze me, really! You get all upset over the fact that we bring real life into a medieval game, yet you do exactly that by bringing resources and troops... “Oh the empire lacks resources so therefor the empire continues to let the Thalmor slaughter their people” For fluff sakes if the empire is that fluffing weak to not put their foot down, and tell the A.D to fluff off, and to get off of their owned provinces then perhaps independence is the best way to go.

Lets face is the Dominion OWNS the EMPIRE. If they don't do exactly what they say they will get a spanking from their masters :)

Oh and get your face out of the empires ass already. It's evidently clear that you see nothing wrong with what the empire did, in spite of them allowing the Thalmor to invade provinces such as Skyrim; to start rounding up Talos worshipers, and have them imprisoned or worst, killed. Having these discussions with you is like talking to a brick wall.

And who are you to say she joined the wrong side? She joined the side she believes has the best chance of taking the fight to the Dominion.

Sorry, living to fight another day is way more respectable. I would never die for what I believe in. It's something a fool would do.


I'm sure Tiber Septim would understand, given what's happened. As I said in my other post, it would have only been temporary if Ulfric didn't get his anus in a knot.

No the empire is too weak to handle the wrath of the Dominion. They need more resources and troops to handle the elves, remember? I just wish Rikkie could understand that, after all her people are being slaughtered by the very same elves (Not by Ulfric) that her empire surrendered to. Even Rikke was there when the empire signed the treaty.

Yeah I can see Tiber Septim spinning from his grave watching his once proud and strong empire go down.
Battleforsolitude.png
 

Jersey Dagmar

Just in time for the fiyahworks show! BOOM!
If my post is so stupid, as you claim it to be then why do you keep rebutting my posts? I suppose their not as stupid as you claim it to be :)

You mean, "They are not as stupid as you claim to be." Please go back to grade school.

@11 Doctor you never ceases to amaze me, really! You get all upset over the fact that we bring real life into a medieval game, yet you do exactly that by bringing resources and troops... “Oh the empire lacks resources so therefor the empire continues to let the Thalmor slaughter their people” For fu** sakes if the empire is that f***ing weak to not put their foot down, and tell the A.D to fu** off, and to get off of their owned provinces then perhaps independence is the best way to go.

How is bringing resources and troops mentioning the real world? You were comparing a video game to real world events and practices. I didn't do anything of the sort. Or maybe you lack reading comprehension. Or you really are that stupid. I go for you are that stupid.

Clearly you understand nothing of war. Sometimes taking a breather and living to fight another day is the way to go. Just blindly allowing your armies to meet their evident death is not the sign of a good leader.

Lets face is the Dominion OWNS the EMPIRE. If they don't do exactly what they say they will get a spanking from their masters :)

Oh and get your face out of the empires ass already. It's evidently clear that you see nothing wrong with what the empire did, in spite of them allowing the Thalmor to invade provinces such as Skyrim; to start rounding up Talos worshipers, and have them imprisoned or worst, killed. Having these discussions with you is like talking to a brick wall.

The Thalmor wouldn't be in Skyrim if it wasn't for your Ulfric StormChrist stirring up plops by murdering the High King. How many times do the actually intelligent people have to tell you morons? It's getting old. I feel like a broken record.

No the empire is too weak to handle the wrath of the Dominion. They need more resources and troops to handle the elves, remember? I just wish Rikkie could understand that, after all her people are being slaughtered by the very same elves (Not by Ulfric) that her empire surrendered to. Even Rikke was there when the empire signed the treaty.

Yeah I can see Tiber Septim spinning from his grave watching his once proud and strong empire go down.


And those Thalmor wouldn't be there if it wasn't for Ulfric. As I said before. I don't recall ever seeing the Priest from Whiterun getting hauled off. So your argument just falls flat on it's face.

ulfric_stormcloak_naked_by_lostangel1987-d4ku8rx.jpg
 

Docta Corvina

Well-Known Member
What I can't figure out is why referring to lore and history (concerning the war) is considered looking to real world parallels. That makes no sense to me. What 11th Doctor and others have said is that it's dangerous and problematic to look for direct comparisons upon which to map what's happening and what has happened in the game. Calling attention to in-game issues of manpower and warfare is not, in and of itself, looking to real world parallels. Unless we all somehow got sucked into Tamriel without knowing. Man, I'd love the chance to poke around in the game world once. Or twice. As long as I was sure not to get injured or worse, obviously.

Also, if one is arguing that the Empire in its current state is too weak still to fight the Dominion, why on Gaia's green earth would anyone think that the Stormcloaks sapping resources would improve the situation? And more so, why would anyone buy the notion that the Stormcloaks would be able to handle the fight with the Dominion on their own? I say the Stormcloaks because again, not every Nord in Skyrim is sympathetic to and fighting for them. And that situation is not likely to change any time soon, even if Ulfric won the war. The Stormcloak conflict is only diminishing the resources that had been being restocked since the Great War thirty years ago. It's further putting everyone's collective rear end on the line. And in the opinion of many, unnecessarily so.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
You mean, "They are not as stupid as you claim to be." Please go back to grade school.

Unless if you have a degree in PhD and major in English you have no right to play grammar Nazi with me.
How is bringing resources and troops mentioning the real world? You were comparing a video game to real world events and practices. I didn't do anything of the sort. Or maybe you lack reading comprehension. Or you really are that stupid. I go for you are that stupid.

Human reproduction. Since this is a game you can spawn more troops. Hell you can even go as far as to use the console code to spawn as many troops as you can possible can. If you want to abolish any real life contact with skyrim then perhaps you can shut up about lack of resources that the empire has.

Clearly you understand nothing of war. Sometimes taking a breather and living to fight another day is the way to go. Just blindly allowing your armies to meet their evident death is not the sign of a good leader.

I suppose you're an expert of war, and it's operation, right? Where do you get your expertise from? Military channel? Are you a war veteran? Do you have any military background? Again YOU'RE USING REAL WORLD to compare to a fictional video game. Remember that's a big no no.

The Thalmor wouldn't be in Skyrim if it wasn't for you Ulfric StormChrist stirring up pl*** by murdering the High King. How many times do the actually intelligent people have to tell you morons? It's getting old. I feel like a broken record.

For fluff sakes are you joking with me? I hope you're joking because this has to be a joke. Do you think for a moment that the Thalmor gives two plopss about what Ulfric did with High King Torygg? No they do not. The fact is that the Thalmor are there because of Jarl Igmund decisions for allowing free worship of talos (A clear violation of the White-Gold Concordat that the empire agreed with) in Markarth after Ulfric and his stormcloak army retook the reach back from the forsworn. The Thalmor put pressure on Igmund to arrest Ulfric.

And those Thalmor wouldn't be there if it wasn't for Ulfric. As I said before. I don't recall ever seeing the Priest from Whiterun getting hauled off. So your argument just falls flat on it's face.

Lore:Flight from the Thalmor - UESPWiki
by Hadrik Oaken-Heart

Dearest reader: The work you are about to experience has been copied and duplicated, so that the story it relates can be spread throughout the Empire. But make no mistake - this is not a work of fiction. The events chronicled in this account are all true, were originally documented in a private journal (which now remains safely guarded in the House of Quills in Hammerfell) and occurred not more than a year before this book was printed.
- Ashad Ibn Khaled, High Scribe, House of Quills, Hammerfell
It's been nine days. Nine days since I slipped my bonds. Nine days since I strangled my captor with my own chains. And nine days since I rushed headlong into the night, always listening, but never looking back.
But in order to understand my current predicament, one must first understand where I came from, and just where this story began.
My name is Hadrik Oaken-Heart, and I am a proud Nord of Skyrim. I am a skald by trade, and received my formal training at the Bards College in Solitude. For years, I made my occupation as a traveling musician and minstrel, and even served several stints as war-bard in service to the armies of the various Jarls.
And it's fairly safe to say that if I weren't a bard, I never would have gotten into this mess to begin with.
My troubles began when I first started singing about Talos, the Ninth and greatest Divine, beloved of the people of Skyrim. Turns out, he's not so beloved by the Thalmor.
Ah yes, the Thalmor. As common as a head cold in Skyrim these days, and just as annoying. Or so I thought at the time, before their true power and inlfuence [sic] made itself known.
For those not in the know, the Thalmor are Skyrim's recently honored "guests" - high elves of the Aldmeri Dominion who were gracious enough not to wipe us all out during the Great War.
But, as every Nord of Skyrim knows, Thalmor graciousness comes at a terrible price. One of the stipulations of the White-Gold Concordat - the peace treaty between our peoples - was the abolishment of Talos worship. A man ascend to godhood? Preposterous, claim the Thalmor. And so, the open worship of Talos has been outlawed in Skyrim, and actively enforced in those cities where the Thalmor have a tangible presence. Cities, I might add, in which the Empire has the most secure foothold.
It was in one of these cities - Markarth, to be exact - where I made the conscious decision to defy the ban on Talos worship. And my defiance came in the form of - what else? - a song. For what bard who has spent time writing and rehearsing an original work can possible refrain from performing it? So perform it I did. Not once, not twice, but seven times. Once a day, for an entire week.
Now here's something most of my kinsman are unaware of: not all Thalmor in Skyrim are equal in station, or purpose. In fact, there is one group in particular that operates secretly, in the shadows - watching and waiting for those Nords who break the law, and continue their worship of almighty Talos. These are the Justiciars, and it is their job to enforce this, the most terrible of conditions of the White-Gold Concordat.
And so, I would have performed my song for an eighth time had I been given the opportunity. Sadly, I was not. For the Justiciars had been watching, had been waiting. Instead, I received a black sack over my head in the wee hours of the morning, a dreadfully uncomfortable wagon ride, and sinister promises that I would enjoy my "new home," which I came to realize was some sort of secret Thalmor prison or detention camp. One I was certain I would never leave alive.
It was at that moment I realized I needed to make my escape. No matter what - even if I died in the attempt - I had to slip the grasp of my captors. Better that than rot in some godsforsaken Thalmor jail until the end of time.
I finally got my chance when the wagon stopped, and we made camp for the night. One of my two Thalmor guards set off into the forest to hunt, leaving me alone with the other. And so, my account comes full circle.
It is now nine days later, and in that time, I have realized the true extent of my foolishness. I couldn't have sung the song just once? Or maybe twice? Or not at all? I couldn't have swallowed my stubborn Nord pride and realized just how much power and influence the Thalmor truly have over the Jarls?
No. I could not. So now I run. Like a hare from the hound, I run. Always moving, rarely resting, never sleeping. But the Thalmor dog my every move. Where will I go? How will I escape their grasp? I honestly don't know. The only thing I now understand for certain is this: if the agents of the Aldmeri Dominion cannot have your soul, then they will take your very life.
My name is Hadrik Oaken-Heart, and I am a proud Nord of Skyrim. Remember me. For soon I will be dead.
 

Jersey Dagmar

Just in time for the fiyahworks show! BOOM!
Unless if you have a degree in PhD and major in English you have no right to play grammar Nazi with me.

Why not? Learn the language and don't mix up the words.

Human reproduction. Since this is a game you can spawn more troops. Hell you can even go as far as to use the console code to spawn as many troops as you can possible can. If you want to abolish any real life contact with skyrim then perhaps you can shut up about lack of resources that the empire has.

This doesn't even make any sense. What does game mechanics have to do with anything? And clearly you don't understand reproduction in the slightest. Hell, we don't even know if reproduction is the same in the Elder Scrolls world. And what does it have to do with anything anyway? You mean more people should be fluffing and making more soldiers? Damn, YOU ARE DUMB.


I suppose you're an expert of war, and it's operation, right? Where do you get your expertise from? Military channel? Are you a war veteran? Do you have any military background? Again YOU'RE USING REAL WORLD to compare to a fictional video game. Remember that's a big no no.

It's called common sense. And I didn't compare anything to real world events. My statement was highly ambiguous. Don't try to use one of my own arguments against me Raijin. I'm far more intelligent then you.


For fu** sakes are you joking with me? I hope you're joking because this has to be a joke. Do you think for a moment that the Thalmor gives two plopss about what Ulfric did with High King Torygg? No they do not. The fact is that the Thalmor are there because of Jarl Igmund decisions for allowing free worship of talos (A clear violation of the White-Gold Concordat that the empire agreed with) in Markarth after Ulfric and his stormcloak army retook the reach back from the forsworn. The Thalmor put pressure on Igmund to arrest Ulfric.

That doesn't excuse the fact that the Empire AND the Thalmor would not be in Skyrim if Ulfric had not killed the High King.

Reading comprehension. Someone needs it.
 

Mr.Self Destruct

Chosen Undead
Unless if you have a degree in PhD and major in English you have no right to play grammar Nazi with me.

What kind of logic is that? Anybody with half a brain can call you out on your grammar.

Human reproduction. Since this is a game you can spawn more troops. Hell you can even go as far as to use the console code to spawn as many troops as you can possible can. If you want to abolish any real life contact with skyrim then perhaps you can shut up about lack of resources that the empire has.

If you really think a band of untrained militia has more supplies than the Empire, you need to get your head checked.

I suppose you're an expert of war, and it's operation, right? Where do you get your expertise from? Military channel? Are you a war veteran? Do you have any military background? Again YOU'RE USING REAL WORLD to compare to a fictional video game. Remember that's a big no no.

Stop being so naive and stupid, seriously, it doesn't take a military expert to know that a decimated force needs time to recover. And saying "HUR DUR UR USING REAL WORD HERE" is both incredibly dumb and a fallacy considering tactics and strategy exist in both worlds. It's not like "Oh, we can't decide to cut our losses and call a truce because this is Elder Scrolls logic and tactics and strategy don't exist here."


For fu** sakes are you joking with me? I hope you're joking because this has to be a joke. Do you think for a moment that the Thalmor gives two plopss about what Ulfric did with High King Torygg? No they do not.
Yes, they do. They encourage his rebellion because it causes more disorder and chaos in Tamriel.
The fact is that the Thalmor are there because of Jarl Igmund decisions for allowing free worship of talos (A clear violation of the White-Gold Concordat that the empire agreed with) in Markarth after Ulfric and his stormcloak army retook the reach back from the forsworn. The Thalmor put pressure on Igmund to arrest Ulfric.

I think you neglected to mention Ulfric killed and tortured people during the Markarth Incident.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
What kind of logic is that? Anybody with half a brain can call you out on your grammar.

If you really think a band of untrained militia has more supplies than the Empire, you need to get your head checked.

It's safe to say that Ulfric and his Stormcloak soldiers are pretty much well trained to handle the dead Empire :)

Stop being so naive and stupid, seriously, it doesn't take a military expert to know that a decimated force needs time to recover. And saying "HUR DUR UR USING REAL WORD HERE" is both incredibly dumb and a fallacy considering tactics and strategy exist in both worlds. It's not like "Oh, we can't decide to cut our losses and call a truce because this is Elder Scrolls logic and tactics and strategy don't exist here."

But why recover when you can use the console code to respawn new additional soldiers? (Says it in a sarcastic tone)

Player.placeatme “npc code #”
Stormcloak Archer: 45BE3
Stormcloak Soldier (2-Handed): 467BB
Stormcloak Mage: 4622B
Stormcloak General: 559DF
Stormcloak Field Commander:205C8
Imperial Archer: 45BE0
Imperial Soldier (2-Handed):47CBA
Imperial Soldier (Sword & Shield): 46794
Imperial Wizard: 4622A
Imperial General: 559E0
Imperial Field Legate:205C9
Taken off of: How to Make NPC Wars - Skyrim Wiki Guide - IGN

Yes, they do. They encourage his rebellion because it causes more disorder and chaos in Tamriel.

No they don't, however I'm sure their sitting in their Thalmor embassy thrones cooking up popcorn, and watching men fight against each other like some fools that they are.

I think you neglected to mention Ulfric killed and tortured people during the Markarth Incident.

I think you neglected to mention how Igmund failed to arrest Ulfric for these so called allegations of torture and murder of innocent people during the Markarth incident. If it truly happen then why aren't the citizens of Markarth protesting about it? After speaking with everyone in the city, nobody had anything to say regarding to what happen. Don't you find that bizarre? Where are these family of victims that were supposedly killed by Ulfric Stormcloak? Why aren't they furious over Igmund for not executing Ulfric for such crimes? Why only arrest him under the pressure of the Thalmor?
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
WHAT IF the Thalmor are not actually there because of Ulfric, but are already planning another invasion, hoping that they crush Cyrodil, and Elenwen and the Thalmor with her are part of a mission to study the layout of Skyrim? AND, they are using Ulfric and the ban on Talos worship to make it look like they are just doing their job?

If this is the case and the empire wins, then the Thalmor would have enough time to fully study the province and learn the lay of the lane, eliminating any local Nord resistance when they do invade full force.
 

Mr.Self Destruct

Chosen Undead

Your warped perceptions and ability to not take a hint amaze me, I thought you posting that South Park clip earlier would be as bad as it gets but nope.
It's safe to say that Ulfric and his Stormcloak soldiers are pretty much well trained to handle the dead Empire :)

In the same way any guerrilla fighter could take on an established force by hiding in the bushes and firing off an arrow at a passing patrol. Ulfric and his boys wouldn't stand a chance if they tried to take on Cyrodiil.
But why recover when you can use the console code to respawn new additional soldiers? (Says it in a sarcastic tone)

Player.placeatme “npc code #”
Stormcloak Archer: 45BE3
Stormcloak Soldier (2-Handed): 467BB
Stormcloak Mage: 4622B
Stormcloak General: 559DF
Stormcloak Field Commander:205C8
Imperial Archer: 45BE0
Imperial Soldier (2-Handed):47CBA
Imperial Soldier (Sword & Shield): 46794
Imperial Wizard: 4622A
Imperial General: 559E0
Imperial Field Legate:205C9
Taken off of: How to Make NPC Wars - Skyrim Wiki Guide - IGN


Right, I forgot, gameplay mechanics are totally legitimate lore and canon

9ab8633a9a43017d1e960345f5c29b60_view.jpg


HERE WE HAVE THE DOVAHKIIN FLYING ON AN INVISIBLE HORSE THIS IS TOTALLY LEGIT AND LORE BECAUSE ITS IN THE GAME IM SRS GAIS U R ALL STOOPID 4 DISGREEN
No they don't, however I'm sure their sitting in their Thalmor embassy thrones cooking up popcorn, and watching men fight against each other like some fools that they are.

It's stated several times throughout the game Ulfric is one of their pawns, he lives in fear of them because he's been lead to believe that the information he gave up was vital in the fall of the Imperial City. The incited rebellion is nothing but beneficial to them. And because you like to assume and neglect facts I'll post an excerpt from the Thalmor Dossier here.

The so-called Markarth Incident was particularly valuable from the point of view of our strategic goals in Skyrim, although it resulted in Ulfric becoming generally uncooperative to direct contact.
Operational Notes: Direct contact remains a possibility (under extreme circumstances), but in general the asset should be considered dormant. As long as the civil war proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off. The incident at Helgen is an example where an exception had to be made - obviously Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the change of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim. (NOTE: The coincidental intervention of the dragon at Helgen is still under scrutiny. The obvious conclusion is that whoever is behind the dragons also has an interest in the continuation of the war, but we should not assume therefore that their goals align with our own.) A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed.
~Thalmor Dossier: Ulfric Stormcloak, taken from the Elder Scrolls Wiki

I think you neglected to mention how Igmund failed to arrest Ulfric for these so called allegations of torture and murder of innocent people during the Markarth incident.
Igmund wasn't there, he told Ulfric to take back his city and would be rewarded with free worship of Talos. From there, it was Ulfric's bidding.
If it truly happen then why aren't the citizens of Markarth protesting about it? After speaking with everyone in the city, nobody had anything to say regarding to what happen. Don't you find that bizarre? Where are these family of victims that were supposedly killed by Ulfric Stormcloak? Why aren't they furious over Igmund for not executing Ulfric for such crimes? Why only arrest him under the pressure of the Thalmor?

You do realize there're many individuals locked up in the mines for their involvement in the Markarth Incident right? And that each of them fit the bill perfectly in recounting the slaughters committed right? You also realize that I've said this to you twice now and I'm beginning to think you're purposely trying to appear stupid now, right?
 

azali100

Active Member
I think you neglected to mention how Igmund failed to arrest Ulfric for these so called allegations of torture and murder of innocent people during the Markarth incident. If it truly happen then why aren't the citizens of Markarth protesting about it? After speaking with everyone in the city, nobody had anything to say regarding to what happen. Don't you find that bizarre? Where are these family of victims that were supposedly killed by Ulfric Stormcloak? Why aren't they furious over Igmund for not executing Ulfric for such crimes? Why only arrest him under the pressure of the Thalmor?

Wut? Ulfric murdered and tortured Forsworn not Nords. That's why Igmund hasn't arrested him. He asked him to kill them. That's why Nords don't care or protest. They don't give a rats behind because they believe the land is thiers. The ones who do care get thrown in the mines. That's why Forsworn are murdering random Nords in the streets. That is their "protest" or retaliation. And the family members of the murdered? All thrown in the mines by the Jarl and the Silverbloods. Did you not get the point of the whole Forsworn conspiracy? It's a CONSPIRACY. Markarth is even more corrupt than Riften.


Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
Your warped perceptions and ability to not take a hint amaze me, I thought you posting that South Park clip earlier would be as bad as it gets but nope.
Oh well. I guess I'm so dumb that I'm unable to take a hint. I guess is because complaining about ones grammar on a debate thread indicates weakness. If my grammar is so bothersome then why bother replying to anything to what I said? Anyhow I just love playing along, to stir up more grammar bullplops from the grammar nazis on this thread. I guess me and 11th Doctor have something in common with each other :) Perhaps we can get married, and have online troll progeny of our own?

In the same way any guerrilla fighter could take on an established force by hiding in the bushes and firing off an arrow at a passing patrol. Ulfric and his boys wouldn't stand a chance if they tried to take on Cyrodiil.

With enough ambition and dedication Ulfric and his boys would do anything, even as far as to die, to make skyrim Independence from the empire.

And according to this
TESV2012-05-2115-39-07-41.jpg


The empire isn't looking to popular among their citizens. This tells me that Ulfric is gaining points in the popularly so perhaps Ulfric and his boys could possibly win?

Right, I forgot, gameplay mechanics are totally legitimate lore and canon

HERE WE HAVE THE DOVAHKIIN FLYING ON AN INVISIBLE HORSE THIS IS TOTALLY LEGIT AND LORE BECAUSE ITS IN THE GAME IM SRS GAIS U R ALL STOOPID 4 DISGREEN

That my friend is what you call a glitch :) It has nothing to do with the gameplay mechanics.

Oh and here's my funny picture :)
TESV2012-09-0221-55-56-19.jpg


It's stated several times throughout the game Ulfric is one of their pawns, he lives in fear of them because he's been lead to believe that the information he gave up was vital in the fall of the Imperial City. The incited rebellion is nothing but beneficial to them. And because you like to assume and neglect facts I'll post an excerpt from the Thalmor Dossier here.

The so-called Markarth Incident was particularly valuable from the point of view of our strategic goals in Skyrim, although it resulted in Ulfric becoming generally uncooperative to direct contact.
Operational Notes: Direct contact remains a possibility (under extreme circumstances), but in general the asset should be considered dormant. As long as the civil war proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off. The incident at Helgen is an example where an exception had to be made - obviously Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the change of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim. (NOTE: The coincidental intervention of the dragon at Helgen is still under scrutiny. The obvious conclusion is that whoever is behind the dragons also has an interest in the continuation of the war, but we should not assume therefore that their goals align with our own.) A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed.
~Thalmor Dossier: Ulfric Stormcloak, taken from the Elder Scrolls Wiki

Ahhhh that Jolly good Thalmor Dossier on Ulfric that people tend to drool over. To tell you the honest truth while I do find it intriguing, I just don't take it seriously like so many of you guys do. The fact to the matter is you're Dragonborn. You are the ultimate trump card of either side. If you side with the Imperials then the empire has the upper hand, and will 100% win the war against the A.D. Same goes if you side with the Stormcloaks. Whats the point of dragging this on?

Igmund wasn't there, he told Ulfric to take back his city and would be rewarded with free worship of Talos. From there, it was Ulfric's bidding.

Of course he wasn't there because the Forsworn had full control. The fact to the matter is that this writer is accusing Ulfric of murdering innocent people...from children, elderly, businessmen/woman and farmers. If this was true then this is war crimes that needs to be dealt with. Any reasonable Jarl would overlook this, and arrest Ulfric for war crimes.

You do realize there're many individuals locked up in the mines for their involvement in the Markarth Incident right? And that each of them fit the bill perfectly in recounting the slaughters committed right? You also realize that I've said this to you twice now and I'm beginning to think you're purposely trying to appear stupid now, right?
You didn't even bother answering to my question and so I'm forced to ignore yours.

azali100 Please read the bear of Markarth. The writer is accusing Ulfric of murdering innocent people.
 

Mr.Self Destruct

Chosen Undead
Oh well. I guess I'm so dumb that I'm unable to take a hint. I guess is because complaining about ones grammar on a debate thread indicates weakness. If my grammar is so bothersome then why bother replying to anything to what I said? Anyhow I just love playing along, to stir up more grammar bullplops from the grammar nazis on this thread. I guess me and 11th Doctor have something in common with each other :) Perhaps we can get married, and have online troll progeny of our own?

Grammar is essential if you're trying to get a point across, given, if it turns into nitpicking and someone devotes several paragraphs over another's incorrect usage of the word "whom" then in that case it does indicate weakness.

With enough ambition and dedication Ulfric and his boys would do anything, even as far as to die, to make skyrim Independence from the empire.

And according to this
TESV2012-05-2115-39-07-41.jpg


The empire isn't looking to popular among their citizens. This tells me that Ulfric is gaining points in the popularly so perhaps Ulfric and his boys could possibly win?

Actually, Skyrim is torn over the issue of the Civil War and this is made obvious as members of all races and ethnicities openly state whether or not they support the Empire or Ulfric. It isn't like everyone in Skyrim hates the Empire, many of them do remember that Skyrim used to be part of the Empire and that the Empire was always good to the country. Ulfric and his boys need to get their priorities set straight and realize the Thalmor are the enemy, not the Empire.

Your picture implies the Empire is stretched thin on troop strength, not that they aren't popular in Cyrodiil. The thought that a ragtag group of untrained militia who specialize in guerrilla warfare could take the offensive to trained Legionaries wearing heavy armor is both applauding and flat out stupid. Don't be unrealistic, the Empire is still the strongest fighting force in Tamriel aside from the Aldmeri Dominion. There's a difference between fighting offense and defense, the former being much harder.


That my friend is what you call a glitch :) It has nothing to do with the gameplay mechanics.

A glitch is a part of gameplay, and the reason I brought it up was because you start throwing around "Well, Ulfric must be stronger because I can use console commands!" Do I really need to explain how backwards that thinking is? The fact of the matter was that gameplay mechanics have nothing to do with written lore.


Ahhhh that Jolly good Thalmor Dossier on Ulfric that people tend to drool over. To tell you the honest truth while I do find it intriguing, I just don't take it seriously like so many of you guys do. The fact to the matter is you're Dragonborn. You are the ultimate trump card of either side. If you side with the Imperials then the empire has the upper hand, and will 100% win the war against the A.D. Same goes if you side with the Stormcloaks. Whats the point of dragging this on?

Wat8.jpg


Did you seriously just disregard a written dossier which predates the Dragonborn joining whichever side on the basis that he can defeat the Thalmor?

Did that sentence make sense? Because whatever you posted really didn't.

Of course he wasn't there because the Forsworn had full control.

So how is he going to arrest Ulfric? It's not like he has a magic crystal ball connected to a camera hovering above Markarth.
The fact to the matter is that this writer is accusing Ulfric of murdering innocent people...from children, elderly, businessmen/woman and farmers. If this was true then this is war crimes that needs to be dealt with. Any reasonable Jarl would overlook this, and arrest Ulfric for war crimes.

You're using real world logic here, when in fact these are times when people are still beheaded for treason. Ulfric mopped everything up, the only survivors of the incident live out in the prison of Markarth. It's not like the jarls were hosting a picnic around Markarth at the time, they weren't there. And furthermore they have little power over someone who isn't in their hold. Other jarls acknowledge what Ulfric did.

You didn't even bother answering to my question and so I'm forced to ignore yours.

>"Why aren't the Nords protesting?"
>Because those who did are now in the mines.
>"Nobody says anything, don't you find that bizzare?"
>Check out the mines.
>"Where are the families of those killed by Ulfric?"
>In the mines or forced out of Markarth and into the hills. I see a pattern emerging.
>"Why aren't they furious at Igmund for not arresting Ulfric."
>Implying jarls have power over other jarls. And they are, they're just in the mines.

All of your questions, answered.

azali100 Please read the bear of Markarth. The writer is accusing Ulfric of murdering innocent people.[/quote]
 

Sothiss

New Member
Well, I chose Stormcloak. Primarily because I can't overlook the fact that the imperials were going to cut my head off even though they had no idea who I was.
And then there's the fact that they have no guts. Why not try to unite Skyrim, and the lands already taken by the Aldmeri Dominion, then launch a full on revolution? Even if you don't win, at least you fought hard to protect your home and beliefs.
Now yes, people often bring up the fact that the Stormcloaks are racist, but not all of them are. And I think even less of them would be if Ulfric would stop spewing his "Nord only" nonsense. And if I had my way, I would have killed the man in Solitude and taken his place.
 

Jersey Dagmar

Just in time for the fiyahworks show! BOOM!
Well, I chose Stormcloak. Primarily because I can't overlook the fact that the imperials were going to cut my head off even though they had no idea who I was.
And then there's the fact that they have no guts. Why not try to unite Skyrim, and the lands already taken by the Aldmeri Dominion, then launch a full on revolution? Even if you don't win, at least you fought hard to protect your home and beliefs.
Now yes, people often bring up the fact that the Stormcloaks are racist, but not all of them are. And I think even less of them would be if Ulfric would stop spewing his "Nord only" nonsense. And if I had my way, I would have killed the man in Solitude and taken his place.

And do you honestly think that the Stormcloaks would have just let you go if you were captured among Imperial troops? Chances are not taken during war, and mistakes happen. But, before you sit there and condemn the Legion because of it, try and reverse the situation.

And what do you mean they have no guts? Do you have any idea what it's like to run a country? As I've said before, blindly charging into a battle with exhausted troops and resources and sending them to their death doesn't earn respect from me. That's a sign of a poor leader. Sitting back and looking at the options, and sometimes having to make compromises so you can live to fight another day is way more honorable.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
Why not? Learn the language and don't mix up the words.



This doesn't even make any sense. What does game mechanics have to do with anything? And clearly you don't understand reproduction in the slightest. Hell, we don't even know if reproduction is the same in the Elder Scrolls world. And what does it have to do with anything anyway? You mean more people should be f***ing and making more soldiers? Damn, YOU ARE DUMB.




It's called common sense. And I didn't compare anything to real world events. My statement was highly ambiguous. Don't try to use one of my own arguments against me Raijin. I'm far more intelligent then you.




That doesn't excuse the fact that the Empire AND the Thalmor would not be in Skyrim if Ulfric had not killed the High King.

Reading comprehension. Someone needs it.

I know this was not meant for me but:

THE EMPIRE HAS ALWAYS BEEN IN SKYRIM!!!! At least, I think that is what most of the soldiers say. IF it was someone else, Say Balgruuf, who killed the high king, and did everything Ulfric is doing, the exact same thing would be happening. INCLUDING THE THALMOR ROUNDING UP TALOS WORSHIPERS.

In other words, the event of the CW brought them both there, not the man who started the war. Plus how would this play out If Ulfric had the jagged crown at the time of the Duel?
 

azali100

Active Member
azali100 Please read the bear of Markarth. The writer is accusing Ulfric of murdering innocent people.

I've read it. Being Forsworn doesn't mean you aren't innocent. They have women and children too. And civilians. Igmund asked Ulfric to kill them thats why he doesn't do anything about it. Think US government and Native Americans. The local Nords, even if they cared, which they don't seem to do, can't do anything about it. They'll get thrown in jail.

You know this isn't a democracy right? The Jarl has absolute power over his subjects.
 
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