Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Jeremius]

Markarth Incident? Let's just say that the Empire might have used a false accusation to cover up the fact that they were forced to revoke their deal with Ulfric concerning Talos Worship. THALMOR RULE THE EMPIRE!!!!

azali100, he could have been in fear for his life and that of his family in solitude (Extended), and opened the gate willingly, while conveniently leaving the fear part out.

 

[azali100]

Markarth Incident? Let's just say that the Empire might have used a false accusation to cover up the fact that they were forced to revoke their deal with Ulfric concerning Talos Worship. THALMOR RULE THE EMPIRE!!!!

azali100, he could have been in fear for his life and that of his family in solitude (Extended), and opened the gate willingly, while conveniently leaving the fear part out.

He says Ulfric Stormcloak is th high king. On the chopping block.

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[azali100]

The Dragonborn was tossed in jail for meddling in ones business that has nothing to do with him. How would you like it if a traveler, that just came into your city, started shoving his nose to business that doesn't belong to his, and started stirring up trouble within the community that's already having a forsworn problem as it is? The Dragonborn was warned by guards to back off, and yet he still ignored the warnings. What do you expect to happen? It's best to mind your own business or something bad may happen to you as a result of your curiosity

Dude that's not what happened at all. The guards murder Eltrys (the man who gives you the note). They then frame you for the murder and throw you in prison. The dragonborn isn't just "sticking his nose where it doesn't belong". He is exposing a corrupt government. That's why Eltrys gets killed. That's why you get thrown in the mines. It baffles me how you can justify this but the banning of Talos worship is worse to you. Ironically the Nords kicked the forsworn out of thier native lands and banned thier worship of the old gods...

The
If only Bethesda and Steam can hire me to play Skyrim I would be trilled Madanach is the enemy of the reach. He is the leader of the forsworn; the king of rags. What business did that guy had when he paid a visit to the man? It couldn't be just some social call. Funny how the NPC never got into any details of the reason behind it. Lets face it if an American was caught speaking with Osama bin laden, only once... no doubt will this American be arrested, and potentially executed for high treason. If you're caught talking to the enemy you're bond to get severely punished.

Remember the reach is at war with the forsworn.

Yes Madanach is the enemy of the Reach. And taking orders from the Silverbloods. I wonder why Thonar silverblood is never sent to the chopping block?

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[Jeremius]

Dude that's not what happened at all. The guards murder Eltrys (the man who gives you the note). They then frame you for the murder and throw you in prison. The dragonborn isn't just "sticking his nose where it doesn't belong". He is exposing a corrupt government. That's why Eltrys gets killed. That's why you get thrown in the mines. It baffles me how you can justify this but the banning of Talos worship is worse to you. Ironically the Nords kicked the forsworn out of thier native lands and banned thier worship of the old gods...



Yes Madanach is the enemy of the Reach. And taking orders from the Silverbloods. I wonder why Thonar silverblood is never sent to the chopping block?

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He is rich enough to get out of it? Plus his family owns the mine in Markarth, I doubt the empire would just execute the guy.

 

[Gunnbjorn]

Ulfric Stormcloak believes his race is of higher importance to every other race. Just by walking through the streets of Windhelm you can witness 2 Nords being racist towards a Dark Elf woman, and if you walk into Candlehearth Hall you can meet an Argonian that is also subject to discrimination because of her race.

In Windhelm, all Dark Elves are forced to live in a certain corner of the city, the only reason why they are even allowed in the city is because some Nord (sorry, I forget his name) likes the Dark Elves and reasoned with Ulfric to let them stay. He gained a lot of respect for fighting in the Great War or semething... I don't really remember, but you can find him if you walk around Windhelm for a bit.

Anyways, what I am getting at is if Ulfric, as the Jarl, discriminates all non-Nord in his city, then it is a given that he would do the same as High King of Skyrim. As an RPer, most 'good' players and non-Nords would put a stop to this.

I'm not saying don't side with him, because it's completely your choice, and maybe your character's opinions agree to that, but that is just how I see it, and disregarding my characters back-story and race, I would still choose to side with the Imperials because of this.

That is my opinion on Ulfric and the Rebels. Just something to think about. It also should not be your deciding factor.

EDIT:

After someone sent me a link on the Dark Elves, it turns out that the Nords have almost a reason to dislike them.

Skyrim:Scourge of the Gray Quarter - UESPWiki

Basically what it says is that the Dark Elves have found a way to involve themselves into the Skyrim lifestyle, in different towns they found work, and was able to contribute as a good citizen. In Windhelm, however, they did not feel any sense of responsibility of participating in Windhelm, and have thus chosen to live with their race in the Grey Quarter, the Guards don't patrol that part of the city, and the Dark Elves sort of run around and take matters into their own hands (or at least that's what I have come to understand of it.)

Please correct me if I took the article the wrong way, I'm not completely confident in the understanding on it, I think I got it right.

So, sure, the Nords have some reason to dislike the Dark Elves, but my argument on Ulfric and the Stormcloaks still treating all non-Nords as lesser beings still stands, and he would most definitely continue to treat them badly if he did win the Civil War and become High King.

 

[Raijin]

Dude that's not what happened at all. The guards murder Eltrys (the man who gives you the note). They then frame you for the murder and throw you in prison. The dragonborn isn't just "sticking his nose where it doesn't belong". He is exposing a corrupt government. That's why Eltrys gets killed. That's why you get thrown in the mines. It baffles me how you can justify this but the banning of Talos worship is worse to you. Ironically the Nords kicked the forsworn out of thier native lands and banned thier worship of the old gods...

And you think for a moment that “exposing a corrupted government” isn't going to come at a price? The guards found out who was behind this fiasco, and killed him, and since the Dragonborn knew too much of what was going on they took him to the mines. No I'm not justifying this. The government in Markarth is corrupted, but what good came out of this quest? If you let Madanach live, and allowed him to escape the mines, you now stir up even more chaos against the citizens of the reach by making the Forsworn even more powerful, since they now have their leader to lead again. Sure Thonar is dead, but you still have 1 remanding living Silverblood alive to take over the family business.

Wealthy + Power = Main ingredient for corruption.

Oh and one more thing

Ysgramor is the fabled hero that started the legendary group of warriors, the Companions. With his five hundred Companions and his great axe Wuuthrad, he drove the Elves from the harsh, vast land of Skyrim and claimed it for mankind. Taken off of Skyrim:Ysgramor - UESPWiki

The Forsworn, also known as the Reachmen, Witchmen of High Rock, and Madmen of the Reach, are a tribal group of racially-mixed (but primarily Breton) ancestry who inhabit the Reach in southwestern Skyrim. Taken off of Skyrim:Forsworn - UESPWiki

What does this tell you? The true natives of skyrim are the snow elves. The nords stole their land, and now Skyrim (all of it) is the home provinces of the nords. It's safe to say that the Forsworns aren't the true natives of skyrim, not even the reach. Since the Forsworns are primary Breton, why can't they go back to High Rock and declare a chuck of land from there theirs? The nords aren't going to let some group of bandits take over a region that they rightfully own.

Yes Madanach is the enemy of the Reach. And taking orders from the Silverbloods. I wonder why Thonar silverblood is never sent to the chopping block?
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LOL are you serious? The Silverbloods essentially owns Markarth. It's the same deal with Maven of Riften, and Erikur of Solitude. I highly doubt that Thonar will ever see the headmen Axe. All 3 have the guards and the Jarls in their pockets.

 

[azali100]

And you think for a moment that “exposing a corrupted government” isn't going to come at a price? The guards found out who was behind this fiasco, and killed him, and since the Dragonborn knew too much of what was going on they took him to the mines. No I'm not justifying this. The government in Markarth is corrupted, but what good came out of this quest? If you let Madanach live, and allowed him to escape the mines, you now stir up even more chaos against the citizens of the reach by making the Forsworn even more powerful, since they now have their leader to lead again. Sure Thonar is dead, but you still have 1 remanding living Silverblood alive to take over the family business.

Wealthy + Power = Main ingredient for corruption.

Oh and one more thing

Ysgramor is the fabled hero that started the legendary group of warriors, the Companions. With his five hundred Companions and his great axe Wuuthrad, he drove the Elves from the harsh, vast land of Skyrim and claimed it for mankind. Taken off of Skyrim:Ysgramor - UESPWiki

The Forsworn, also known as the Reachmen, Witchmen of High Rock, and Madmen of the Reach, are a tribal group of racially-mixed (but primarily Breton) ancestry who inhabit the Reach in southwestern Skyrim. Taken off of Skyrim:Forsworn - UESPWiki

What does this tell you? The true natives of skyrim are the snow elves. The nords stole their land, and now Skyrim (all of it) is the home provinces of the nords. It's safe to say that the Forsworns aren't the true natives of skyrim, not even the reach. Since the Forsworns are primary Breton, why can't they go back to High Rock and declare a chuck of land from there theirs? The nords aren't going to let some group of bandits take over a region that they rightfully own.



LOL are you serious? The Silverbloods essentially owns Markarth. It's the same deal with Maven of Riften, and Erikur of Solitude. I highly doubt that Thonar will ever see the headmen Axe. All 3 have the guards and the Jarls in their pockets.

THATS THE POINT.

The corruption. That is why the Jarl didn't do anything about the innocent forsworn and Nords livin under the forsworn being tortured and killed. He doesn't care about them. He has no problem with this behavior. No problem with Ulfric killing innocents. No problem with Forsworn running free killing his people at the Silverbloods call. No problem with his own guards killing his people or imprisoning them on false charges to silence them. You get it now?

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[Mr.Self Destruct]

And you think for a moment that “exposing a corrupted government” isn't going to come at a price? The guards found out who was behind this fiasco, and killed him, and since the Dragonborn knew too much of what was going on they took him to the mines. No I'm not justifying this. The government in Markarth is corrupted, but what good came out of this quest? If you let Madanach live, and allowed him to escape the mines, you now stir up even more chaos against the citizens of the reach by making the Forsworn even more powerful, since they now have their leader to lead again. Sure Thonar is dead, but you still have 1 remanding living Silverblood alive to take over the family business.

Wealthy + Power = Main ingredient for corruption.

Oh and one more thing

Ysgramor is the fabled hero that started the legendary group of warriors, the Companions. With his five hundred Companions and his great axe Wuuthrad, he drove the Elves from the harsh, vast land of Skyrim and claimed it for mankind. Taken off of Skyrim:Ysgramor - UESPWiki

The Forsworn, also known as the Reachmen, Witchmen of High Rock, and Madmen of the Reach, are a tribal group of racially-mixed (but primarily Breton) ancestry who inhabit the Reach in southwestern Skyrim. Taken off of Skyrim:Forsworn - UESPWiki

What does this tell you? The true natives of skyrim are the snow elves. The nords stole their land, and now Skyrim (all of it) is the home provinces of the nords. It's safe to say that the Forsworns aren't the true natives of skyrim, not even the reach. Since the Forsworns are primary Breton, why can't they go back to High Rock and declare a chuck of land from there theirs? The nords aren't going to let some group of bandits take over a region that they rightfully own.

Before I move on, let me reply to this.

No, the Nords didn't steal anything, no, they didn't conquest Skyrim in a violent series of battles. No, they lived peacefully, coexisting with the Snow Elves in peace for many years. They had utmost respect for them, even naming the land Mereth in recognition of the mer who lived there. When the Nords discovered the Eye of Magnus in Saarthal the Elves launched a brutal assault, slaying every man, women and child in their attempt to obtain the ancient power for themselves. Ysgramor and his two sons barely survived, escaping back to Atmora. He returned with the 500 companions because he wanted vengeance for his people, betrayed by those hungry for power.

Get your facts straight.

Secondly, after the Nords occupied Skyrim after defeating the Snow Elves they settled in the Reach, and the intermingling between them and the neighboring Breton became the Forsworn. Saying they should just find another territory is redundant considering that IS there territory, the land there doesn't belong to the Snow Elves any more because they're a dead race. The Reachmen are descendants of the original Nord settlers, saying they should just "pack up and leave" is insurmountably stupid.

Night of Tears - The Elder Scrolls Wiki

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

While I do agree with you that grammar is an essential to the English language, the fact to the matter is this is a gaming forum where even Rayven said on the shoutbox not that long ago that 13 year old's are welcome here. Not everyone specializes in the English language, or was taught in a good productive school. That is the reason why she removed the “Bad Grammar” pin because it was adding a false negative reputation on people who otherwise cannot help it.

If you're truly concern about ones grammatical errors then for mara's sake show your concerns in private. Be a mentor; a teacher, and do the humane thing. While it may not embarrass me, it could very well embarrass others for pointing their mistakes out in public, and not in private.

You don't need to have an omnipotent grasp on literacy and grammar to be here, I'm not condoning whatever she said to you because your grammar skills are perfectly adequate. However in any situation, good grammar is always a good thing.

Many people in Skyrim want to be free from the shackles of the empire. They want to rule Skyrim with their Nordic traditions and laws. It is the reason why their fighting. The Titus Mede empire is severely weak, and the people in skyrim sees it. Only the strong has the right to rule, not the weak. If you listen to what Galmar says he even acknowledges that the true threat isn't the empire, but the elves themselves.

If Nordic traditions and laws translates to Ulfric's bleak, warped and otherwise backwards views on diplomacy and governance than Skyrim is heading down a dark path. Ulfric is an incompetent leader, this has been proven by the fact he's unable to set aside his differences at the council because he lets power and influence corrupt his outlooking on things. No matter how you put it, Ulfric is a Nord supremacist, how he treats other races is proof of this.


If Galmar acknowledges the true threat is the Thalmor he's a total bloke because he's the top lieutenant in an army that is doing everything but fighting the real threat.

A picture is worth a thousands of words. The fact to the matter is that the legate said it himself that the recruitment is scarce with very few reinforcements.

How does this imply they are unpopular in Cyrodiil as you said?

They have to depend on local recruitment. If this was Tiber Septims empire then yeah, I would agree with you that they would be the strongest fighting task force in tamriel, but in fact their not because they surrendered to the A.D by signing the treaty to ban the worship of Talos. In fact they made the Aldmeri Dominion even more arrogant since they have bragging rights.

They're depending on local recruitment because trying to recover from a war the size and scope of the Great War while dealing with the Civil War is ravaging the Empire. The fact of the matter is that they are still the most organized conventional fighting force in Skyrim, the best equipped, the best trained. They signed the treaty because they needed time, otherwise there wouldn't be a Skyrim left to fight over.

Oh, because bragging rights matter here? This is war, not a schoolyard fight.

Not really a glitch is cause by incorrect script writing.

And script writing isn't the core mechanics of the game? A glitch is an error in the mechanics, but it's still a part of them.

It has nothing to do with the gameplay. Perhaps if Bethesda waited a bit longer to release the game, and focused on getting their pl*** together then maybe the company wouldn't have to put down so much money in creating patches. As far as Ulfric and his strength ability has nothing to do with the console commands, not sure why you bought that up since it's evidently clear that he successfully made the forsworn go packing when he unleashed his thu'um at them.

Ranting.

You brought up the console commands.

Ulfric was fighting with a trained, conventional fighting force of Windhelm guards. Now they've been reduced to a ragtag group of militia struggling to survive in a city cut off from the rest of the world.

If we were discussing about the book then I would take the dossier more seriously, but the fact is this is a game. With the next expansion that the company is going to publish with the war against the A.D whatever team the Dragonborn is on that team will win the war.

That's nothing but blind, uneducated assumptions and still has nil to do with the dossier. The fact is that Ulfric is an asset to the Thalmor, speculating on potential DLC doesn't change that.

Knowing that whichever side you'd pick would win, wouldn't it make sense to go with the Empire?

Also nowhere does it say in the Dossier anything regarding to the dragonborn. I'm not sure they even know what a dragonborn is, and the potential danger that it can inflict on their operation. Instead of capturing the dragonborn they blatantly order their Justiciars to hunt down the dragonborn, and kill him.

Okay? And this has what to do with Ulfric?

After he takes full control of Markarth, and after an investigation to the accusations of murdering innocent people, and no I don't believe for a moment that all of the victim of the families were sent to the mine for speaking out on behalf of their dead love ones that was killed by Ulfric Stormcloak. Where do you get this information from anyways?

Because he did a damn good job of silencing them? And because I actually did the Cidhna mine quest where you talk to the victims of the atrocities? Why are you so quick to support anything that goes in favor of Ulfric, but desperately defend him against any information that jeopardizes his position?

 

[R'alle]

Imperials all the way.


This is how I thought about it.
Ulfric=hitler Stormcloak=Axis
Gen. Tullius=truman Legion=Allies


Am I the only one who saw this?
I believe it was all a test.

 

[R'alle]

If you disagree please elaborate.

 

[Raijin]

If you disagree please elaborate.

I disagreed with your post because you've explained nothing. It would help if you actually wrote out a half way decent sentence base on your decisions of marking Ulfric as Hitler, and then pointing Tullius as some hero. You go as far as to use “Axis” and “Allies” It kind of reminds me back when I was playing Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory.

 

[R'alle]

I miss wolfeinstein...

Ulfric is a Nord supremacist. He is all about his race being superior and higher up. I don't think he ever bluntly said it but I may be wrong.(Skyrim break since last thursday) He brought up a rebbellion full of nords.

Tullius Is not the best example. In my eyes he's a leader just like Ulfric. The only difference is Tullius is more experienced and commands more troops. In my eyes Ulfric has more spirit but he's not fighting for the right reason. I understand He's fighting for his "Land" but his timing isn't great.

Ulfric should've realized he and the empire have a common enemy. But instead he attacks the legion rendering it weak. Ulfric did exactly what the Thalmor wanted. Now the elves will have no problem taking over skyrim.

Anyways back to the question posted by whoever started this thread.
I would pick the legion just becuase of their armor and Roman like fighting style.

But Lore wise I think a Khajiit would stay away from choosing sides.
Atleast I think you said your character was a Khajiit. I may be mistaken.

 

[Jeremius]

Both the legion and the stormcloaks are jerks. The empire indirectly kills its citizens because of the WGC, which allows the dominion free reign to arrest any and all Talos worshipers, killing those who resist, which is likely the majority of them.

Torture chambers and the markarth Incident show how evil the empire can be when it comes to "Protecting their citizens"

 

[Gunnbjorn]

Imperials all the way.


This is how I thought about it.
Ulfric=hitler Stormcloak=Axis
Gen. Tullius=truman Legion=Allies


Am I the only one who saw this?
I believe it was all a test.

I completely agree with the comparison of Ulfric to Hitler.

 

[azali100]

Both the legion and the stormcloaks are jerks. The empire indirectly kills its citizens because of the WGC, which allows the dominion free reign to arrest any and all Talos worshipers, killing those who resist, which is likely the majority of them.

Torture chambers and the markarth Incident show how evil the empire can be when it comes to "Protecting their citizens"

Eh, Stormcloak dungeons have torture chambers too thats just a medival thing. As for the Markarth incident, what does that have to do with the Empire? Igmund acted indipendantly and supported Ulfric before the Thalmor threatened him.

 

[Jeremius]

Eh, Stormcloak dungeons have torture chambers too thats just a medival thing. As for the Markarth incident, what does that have to do with the Empire? Igmund acted indipendantly and supported Ulfric before the Thalmor threatened him.

Fine, I guess the empire is the hero side and the Stormcloaks are the villains...

 

[azali100]

Fine, I guess the empire is the hero side and the Stormcloaks are the villains...

No its still neutral. I was just pointing out some errors.f

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[Docta Corvina]

I'm surprised I haven't yet had any dreams about this thread. Honestly. Pretty sure I'd wake up with a hammer in my hand if I did though.

It is interesting how long this debate has raged though. Well played, Bethesda.

 

[Jeremius]

Is the Dominion not an alliance between the Altmer and Bosmer? wouldn't a good Idea be to send a wood elf to split the alliance in half?

I do not think anyone thought of that.