Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Jeremius]

There is a lore reason for the empire side, as Uflric drained the Coffers. Uflric I guess just got too busy trying to be High King pre-moot to deal with his own hold.

OK, your point being that Ulfric should tell the Dunmer he'll help eventually.

OK, and...?

What big, momentous change will it bring? Will it cull all unrest? Will it liberate Skyrim?

No?

Then its not that important.

It would show the Dunmer that their issues have been heard, however, calm them down for a while.

Plus, if they calm down, he can focus on the Civil War more fully than having to hear the same update day in, day out.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I'm glad you've mention that scenario with Hadvar because his lack of action causing the death of his fellow comrades was on the borderline of treason. He just stood there and done nothing while his prisoner slaughtered them to bits. How can he say those words when he refuses to give a helping hand to his own? What kind of Legionnaire just stands there while his prisoner is slaughtering his kind? Unbelievable!

Just like how Ralof does nothing when you kill the two Stormcloaks? It is the tutorial Raijin, what do you expect?

One particular elven kind wants to turn Nords into slaves and take over their lands entirely.What are the Dunmer's doing to help fight this tyranny? Not their fight? Of course it is! The Stormcloaks are not just fighting the Imperials but also the Thalmor.

The Thalmor want to destroy the Empire, they're interested in taking Cyordiil. The Thalmor are in an embassy in Skyrim, they don't have an invasion force. So please spare me the "Fighting the Thalmor!" because their numbers aren't massive.

The Companions aren't fighting in the war either, why? Because it isn't their fight. Why should the Dunmer fight in a petty political power struggle?

Also the Dunmer are doing more for Windhelm that many Nords. They farm, sell goods, pay taxes. Stop riding on their case, they're civilians not soldiers. I wouldn't fight for people who treat me like plops either.

What other reason why the Dunmer has an Imperial legion shrine with an Imperial legion gear in his tavern inside the headquarters of the Stormcloaks if hes not an Imperial spy? Dunmers are joining the legion because they do not like the way Nords are treating them.

It doesn't make any sense. It's like having a secret nazi shrine with nazi officer uniforms inside of a Jewish temple. It just don't make any sense, and it's highly suspicious.

Still doesn't endorse Rolff's behavior.

Superstitions or not the evidence is right there and he failed to act out on it.

What evidence? There isn't any evidence pointing to Potema coming back to life. He made a decision that they don't have the resources or manpower to waste on a possible wild goose chase. Once he actually has proper evidence he is concerned and he acts the second time by sending a Courier for you.

We must have a geological differences because that is exactly how the law works in the United states. Not sure how things go in Australia. If you're going to professionally fight someone... prior to a fight both parties must sign an agreement, and a waver to avoid any legal conflicts, and to null any potential lawsuits from happening if an injury is caused, or even potential death.

... Does Tamriel look like the United States of America to you?

While it can not be proven that Ulfric purposely baited Torygg to a duel by invoking the Nordic traditions taboo.. It is the ultimate choice that Troygg decided to make knowing that it was against Imperial law. He was so worried about Ulfric demanding for a moot to reconvene that he forgot that Imperial law overrules any traditions that the Nords has... This is what Ulfric is fighting for... to restore the Nordic traditions, worship of talos, and full independence.

Torygg acted like a Nord when he accepted the challenge. Ulfric had questioned his honor, no Nord would back down from that. As Rikke says "Nords aren't always sensible, they follow their hearts" or something along those lines.

Imperial law is an Imperial law. What the man did by stealing the horse didn't warrant such such punishment by execution. You should know since you're a staunch Imperial supporter

Skyrim is under Martial Law, for all we know maybe crimes are more seriously punished during wartime. After all, I've had half of Skyrim try to kill me for harming a chicken...

 

[Vatonage]

(1)Just like how Ralof does nothing when you kill the two Stormcloaks? It is the tutorial Raijin, what do you expect?




The Thalmor want to destroy the Empire, they're interested in taking Cyordiil. The Thalmor are in an embassy in Skyrim, they don't have an invasion force. So please spare me the "Fighting the Thalmor!" because their numbers aren't massive.

The Companions aren't fighting in the war either, why? Because it isn't their fight. Why should the Dunmer fight in a petty political power struggle?

Also the Dunmer are doing more for Windhelm that many Nords. They farm, sell goods, pay taxes. Stop riding on their case, they're civilians not soldiers. I wouldn't fight for people who treat me like pl*** either.



Still doesn't endorse Rolff's behavior.




What evidence? There isn't any evidence pointing to Potema coming back to life. He made a decision that they don't have the resources or manpower to waste on a possible wild goose chase. Once he actually has proper evidence he is concerned and he acts the second time by sending a Courier for you.




... Does Tamriel look like the United States of America to you?



Torygg acted like a Nord when he accepted the challenge. Ulfric had questioned his honor, no Nord would back down from that. As Rikke says "Nords aren't always sensible, they follow their hearts" or something along those lines.



Skyrim is under Martial Law, for all we know maybe crimes are more seriously punished during wartime. (2)After all, I've had half of Skyrim try to kill me for harming a chicken...

Nice way of deflecting an issue with gameplay the first time, then doing the exact same thing in the same post. Bravo.

 

[Jeremius]

Nice way of deflecting an issue with gameplay the first time, then doing the exact same thing in the same post. Bravo.

I suggest staying out of their fight, Vatonage. Better, and you do not get DrunkenMage's scholarly side rammed down your throat.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Nice way of deflecting an issue with gameplay the first time, then doing the exact same thing in the same post. Bravo.

The chicken thing is a joke. Since the fact that Lokir was assumed to have been with the Stormcloaks seems to fall on deaf ears in this thread.

He's pleading with the Stormcloaks to denounce his and the players involvement with them. He isn't going "I'm just a thief!"

Imagine, you're at war, with barely any resources that aren't going to the effort, and you suddenly have a bunch of foreigners dropped at your door, asking for your finest wine and cheeses right off the gate. Are you going to really be in a hospitable mood not only when they come out of nowhere, burdening you further, but then hardly work to help you, asking for you to help them?

The Dunmer are really going at this backwards. Really, I'm not sympathetic to most of them.

Nice way of deflecting the fact the Dunmer have been in Windhelm for well over a hundred years and that they're not asking for the best things. They're asking that some basic needs are addressed, Ulfric is the Jarl of Windhelm they have to ask him.

They ask for more guard patrols to cover their area, they ask for the condition of buildings to be looked at and they ask that the Snow Quarter stops being called the Gray Quarter as a racial insult.

The Dunmer aren't asking for change this instant, they understand that real change takes time. But to say they're burdening Ulfric is just laughable, since basically all of the Dunmer work and it is even mentioned they pay taxes. If anyone is a burden in the city, it is the Nords who beg or do nothing.

 

[Daryl Dixon]

You guys have put over 830 pages into this, the devs put about 5 in when they created it.

 

[Raijin]

And complaints that are legitimate are annoying? OR are they annoying because you simply do not care about the situation. That is what I think Ulfric was trying to say about the Dunmer situation when he told his steward to tell them he "had more important things to deal with."

Ulfric does not have to do anything more that have the steward tell them that "Skyrim's freedom is the main situation right now as it encompasses more than just the hold, but Ulfric promises to help you out after the war when he can, if you are just patient." That might get them on his side more than "Shut up I am busy" or something much more similar.

What is so legitimate about their complaints? That theirs trash laying around? Why don't they pick up the trash themselves and and make their little compound a little more presentable to others instead of allowing it to look like a slum.

Yeah Ulfric doesn't care about minor complaints. He has bigger fish to fry instead of dealing with such minor cases. If the Dunmers can just be patient then perhaps Ulfric will hear them out.

 

[DrunkenMage]

That's right Ivory. Keep liking the Imperials posts. They need extra cheering and the encouragement after I've defeated them so many times.

Yeah like the time when you... Oh wait, I can't think of any?

 

[DrunkenMage]

What is so legitimate about their complaints? That theirs trash laying around? Why don't they pick up the trash themselves and and make their little compound a little more presentable to others instead of allowing it to look like a slum.

Yeah Ulfric doesn't care about minor complaints. He has bigger fish to fry instead of dealing with such minor cases. If the Dunmers can just be patient then perhaps Ulfric will hear them out.

Their complaints have nothing to do with trash. Windhelm would have supplies if Ulfric could learn basic management like sending two or three good men to work the lumber mill in his Hold.

Where is Windhelm's steward for all of this? Daily duties of the Hold are the job of the Court Steward, if Ulfric is so busy with fighting the war, why can't the steward handle it? Perhaps if Ulfric spent less time being self absorbed in his own image, he could assign his steward to handle the minor complaints.

Edit: Ulfric is facing a major problem, he has civil unrest in an entire district. Unchecked that could turn into revolt overtime, with the Argonians working the docks unhappy too it could easily mean weapons and gear smuggled into the city. They already rally behind Free-Winter, there is only so much plops you can take before you fight back. Did the Nords learn nothing from the native uprising in the Reach?

Maybe that Imperial 'shrine' is just the first step, it could mean they're able to smuggle things into the city.

So now, "children of Skyrim," you have the truth of it. You may call this province home, but you can no sooner claim to own it than a cow can claim to own its master's field. You are just another breed of domestic animal, grazing stupidly while higher beings plot your slaughter.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dunmer_of_Skyrim

Yeah, I'd say you're screwed. Shouldn't have ignored them. Stormcloak Skyrim is looking at some interesting issues with the Forsworn when you try to enslave them and a could be Dunmer rebellion in the future.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Nice way of deflecting an issue with gameplay the first time, then doing the exact same thing in the same post. Bravo.

The chicken thing is a joke. Since the fact that Lokir was assumed to have been with the Stormcloaks seems to fall on deaf ears in this thread.

He's pleading with the Stormcloaks to denounce his and the players involvement with them. He isn't going "I'm just a thief!"

Imagine, you're at war, with barely any resources that aren't going to the effort, and you suddenly have a bunch of foreigners dropped at your door, asking for your finest wine and cheeses right off the gate. Are you going to really be in a hospitable mood not only when they come out of nowhere, burdening you further, but then hardly work to help you, asking for you to help them?

The Dunmer are really going at this backwards. Really, I'm not sympathetic to most of them.

Nice way of deflecting the fact the Dunmer have been in Windhelm for well over a hundred years and that they're not asking for the best things. They're asking that some basic needs are addressed, Ulfric is the Jarl of Windhelm they have to ask him.

They ask for more guard patrols to cover their area, they ask for the condition of buildings to be looked at and they ask that the Snow Quarter stops being called the Gray Quarter as a racial insult.

The Dunmer aren't asking for change this instant, they understand that real change takes time. But to say they're burdening Ulfric is just laughable, since basically all of the Dunmer work and it is even mentioned they pay taxes. If anyone is a burden in the city, it is the Nords who beg or do nothing.

They want everything Handed to them. Think about it, They went from Great Houses and monumental Fame to plops and Poverty. I'd want my mansions back too. Unfortunately they'll have to live with it.

 

[Rimfaxe96]

You are just another breed of domestic animal

Nords being domestic... can't help but laugh at that part. Guess the author didn't spend a lot of time in Nord taverns.
On the other hand, I guess if that Dunmer was from Windhelm, there never was a chance to get a proper view from the typical Nord evening at a typical Nordic inn anyway. Or at least not without having a pack of drunk Nords tackle you down.

A few lines from Hulda, the innkeeper at Whiterun at this point; Well, the Stormcloak guards drink a lot more than the Imperials did, so I've been making more money lately. On the other hand, they're a violent bunch. Every night a fight breaks out and I end up with a smashed chair or a broken table. So, not much has changed, really.

Or how about Carlotta Valentia's experiences (also in Whiterun) with the new "true Sons of Skyrim" in the neighbourhood; Four of the guards have already decided they're in love with me. Two of the guards got into a fight over me at the tavern. Must be mating season.

 

[Raijin]

Just like how Ralof does nothing when you kill the two Stormcloaks? It is the tutorial Raijin, what do you expect?

I don't remember this particular scene you're discussing here. I always follow Ralof and I was never in the position where it was necessary to kill these 2 Stormcloaks whom you're bringing up. I don't recall ever seeing a Stormcloak torturing an Imperial solider. On the other hand you brought up the quote of where Hadvar said "These bastards call themselves Imperial Legionnaires..." and you clearly ignored my comment about Hadvar's lack of loyalty to the Legion by not doing a damn thing, and brought up some lame excuse to try to debunk what I originally said.

Like I said before, and I will c/p what I wrote on my previous thread...

I'm glad you've mention that scenario with Hadvar because his lack of action causing the death of his fellow comrades was on the borderline of treason. He just stood there and done nothing while his prisoner slaughtered them to bits. How can he say those words when he refuses to give a helping hand to his own? What kind of Legionnaire just stands there while his prisoner is slaughtering his kind? Unbelievable!

The Thalmor want to destroy the Empire, they're interested in taking Cyordiil. The Thalmor are in an embassy in Skyrim, they don't have an invasion force. So please spare me the "Fighting the Thalmor!" because their numbers aren't massive.

The Companions aren't fighting in the war either, why? Because it isn't their fight. Why should the Dunmer fight in a petty political power struggle?

Also the Dunmer are doing more for Windhelm that many Nords. They farm, sell goods, pay taxes. Stop riding on their case, they're civilians not soldiers. I wouldn't fight for people who treat me like pl*** either.

Maybe so but the Thalmor is highly interested in taking over Skyrim at this very moment, as they clearly indicated in their battle dialogue. They also want to enslave the Nords by making them as thralls.

The companions aren't fighting this war because they're not into the political aspects of Skyrim, and to be quite frank I don't understand why you're bringing them up when were clearly discussing about the Dunmers in Windhelm. The Companions are very valuable in the contribution to society. What has the Dunmers of windhelm ever did to Skyrim that deserve such respect? What have they done to Windhelm that requires Ulfrics top attention? Can you tell me that?

Like I said before the Dunmers should count their blessings for getting this far, and to be safe and secured inside of a strong walled city.

Still doesn't endorse Rolff's behavior.

I differ that.

What evidence? There isn't any evidence pointing to Potema coming back to life. He made a decision that they don't have the resources or manpower to waste on a possible wild goose chase. Once he actually has proper evidence he is concerned and he acts the second time by sending a Courier for you.

I've already pointed it out. If you want to see the evidence go back to my previous post. I don't feel like repeating myself at this time. The evidence was right there.

... Does Tamriel look like the United States of America to you?

Does Tamriel look like Australia to you? What gives you the right to lecture me about what is proper law?

Torygg acted like a Nord when he accepted the challenge. Ulfric had questioned his honor, no Nord would back down from that. As Rikke says "Nords aren't always sensible, they follow their hearts" or something along those lines.

While Torygg did acted like a true Nord when he accepted Ulfrics terms, that doesn't give him the excuse to break Imperial law by accepting it. No matter what their hearts tells them they must go by what the law dictates for as long as their province are under Imperial jurisdiction.

 

[Jeremius]

And complaints that are legitimate are annoying? OR are they annoying because you simply do not care about the situation. That is what I think Ulfric was trying to say about the Dunmer situation when he told his steward to tell them he "had more important things to deal with."

Ulfric does not have to do anything more that have the steward tell them that "Skyrim's freedom is the main situation right now as it encompasses more than just the hold, but Ulfric promises to help you out after the war when he can, if you are just patient." That might get them on his side more than "Shut up I am busy" or something much more similar.

What is so legitimate about their complaints? That theirs trash laying around? Why don't they pick up the trash themselves and and make their little compound a little more presentable to others instead of allowing it to look like a slum.

Yeah Ulfric doesn't care about minor complaints. He has bigger fish to fry instead of dealing with such minor cases. If the Dunmers can just be patient then perhaps Ulfric will hear them out.

And why don't they pick up and work at a mill that takes time to get to? Why don't they make their own power and actually become slaves to the Nords doing the Nords' will because they live in their city? Why don't they fight for Skyrim when the rebellion has nothing for them as they do not worship Talos like ALL true citzens of Skyrim do? /sarcasm

Is that it Raijin? Because the Dunmer are not Nord, they do not deserve an actual promise or something? Their complaints are not legitimate because they are not worshipers of a god they do not care about?

 

[Raijin]

I suggest staying out of their fight, Vatonage. Better, and you do not get DrunkenMage's scholarly side rammed down your throat.

I'm going to take away your amulet of DrunkenMage if you keep talking like that. Don't make me pull a Thalmor on you

Yeah like the time when you... Oh wait, I can't think of any?

???????????????????????

 

[Raijin]

Their complaints have nothing to do with trash. Windhelm would have supplies if Ulfric could learn basic management like sending two or three good men to work the lumber mill in his Hold.

Where is Windhelm's steward for all of this? Daily duties of the Hold are the job of the Court Steward, if Ulfric is so busy with fighting the war, why can't the steward handle it? Perhaps if Ulfric spent less time being self absorbed in his own image, he could assign his steward to handle the minor complaints.

Edit: Ulfric is facing a major problem, he has civil unrest in an entire district. Unchecked that could turn into revolt overtime, with the Argonians working the docks unhappy too it could easily mean weapons and gear smuggled into the city. They already rally behind Free-Winter, there is only so much pl*** you can take before you fight back. Did the Nords learn nothing from the native uprising in the Reach?

Maybe that Imperial 'shrine' is just the first step, it could mean they're able to smuggle things into the city.

So now, "children of Skyrim," you have the truth of it. You may call this province home, but you can no sooner claim to own it than a cow can claim to own its master's field. You are just another breed of domestic animal, grazing stupidly while higher beings plot your slaughter.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dunmer_of_Skyrim

Yeah, I'd say you're screwed. Shouldn't have ignored them. Stormcloak Skyrim is looking at some interesting issues with the Forsworn when you try to enslave them and a could be Dunmer rebellion in the future.

The Dunmers are complaining that they live in small houses and live in poverty, and if the Dunmers don't like Skyrim they can free to leave the state and go else where. Perhaps Cyrodill can welcome them, and put up with their attitudes.

Like what Mikulas Black-Blade said in quote:

They want everything Handed to them. Think about it, They went from Great Houses and monumental Fame to pl*** and Poverty. I'd want my mansions back too. Unfortunately they'll have to live with it.

 

[Jeremius]

I suggest staying out of their fight, Vatonage. Better, and you do not get DrunkenMage's scholarly side rammed down your throat.

I'm going to take away your amulet of DrunkenMage if you keep talking like that. Don't make me pull a Thalmor on you

Wow, that is insulting. And wrong. I do not have an amulet of DrunkenMage, as they do not exist.

 

[Raijin]

And why don't they pick up and work at a mill that takes time to get to? Why don't they make their own power and actually become slaves to the Nords doing the Nords' will because they live in their city? Why don't they fight for Skyrim when the rebellion has nothing for them as they do not worship Talos like ALL true citzens of Skyrim do? /sarcasm

Is that it Raijin? Because the Dunmer are not Nord, they do not deserve an actual promise or something? Their complaints are not legitimate because they are not worshipers of a god they do not care about?

"The best way for us to win the Nords' respect is through hard work."

"Too many dark elves in Windhelm complain about the way we're treated. What good does complaining do?"

"I'm proud of my farm. It takes no small effort to grow crops in this part of Skyrim."

There is at least 1 decent Dunmer living in Windhelm.

 

[Jeremius]

The Dunmers are complaining that they live in small houses and live in poverty, and if the Dunmers don't like Skyrim they can free to leave the state and go else where. Perhaps Cyrodill can welcome them, and put up with their attitudes.

If they do not like Skyrim, they can complain it as they do not have the money to do anything but complain about the most basic of needs.

Seriously, Ulfric refuses to even promise to listen to them after the war, which makes it sound like to them that he simply either does not care about his own people, meaning he would not be a good High King, or he is too blind to what is really important as a Jarl, which means he would not be a good High King.

Simply being nice often goes along way in making people like you.

 

[Vatonage]

"The best way for us to win the Nords' respect is through hard work."

"Too many dark elves in Windhelm complain about the way we're treated. What good does complaining do?"

"I'm proud of my farm. It takes no small effort to grow crops in this part of Skyrim."

There is at least 1 decent Dunmer living in Windhelm.

He deserves Thaneship, he actually had some common sense! His brothers must be jealous.

 

[Raijin]

Wow, that is insulting. And wrong. I do not have an amulet of DrunkenMage, as they do not exist.

Are you certain?