Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Jeremius]

What part of NO MONEY=NO SAFE TRAVEL do you not get? They do work, they pay taxes. They are not guests of Windhelm who can leave at any time for the Jarl NOT doing his DUTY to protect them. He focuses on the Civil War and if they leave, there is a high chance that they will get attacked and killed by bandits because every guard in every hold in the Stormcloak side is focused on fighting the Empire to do anything or corrupt (in the case of both Markarth and Riften). So even if they made it to Riften, they would likely not be able to get in because of that, making the whole trip pointless.

And what part of " too bad" don't you get? Like Vatonage said. Skyrim is a harsh place to live in and the nords don't owe the Dunmers anything. They're lucky enough to get shelter. What else do they want?

Ulfric does not even promise them anything. How can a man be trusted to think of all of Skyrim first when he does not even take care of the people in his hold first?

Jarl B would make a better High King than Ulfric.

Ulfric doesn't owe the Dunmers anything. The Dunmers should count their blessings that they were given free haven, and quit complaining.

No Jarl B would not make a better High King. Hes too addicted to Imperial coin and lying.

The Dunmer just want a chance to be treated fairly, to be given same chances as Nords. Nord can not be blind supporters of the Ulfric movement without being called imperial spies, but the Dunmer get discriminated because they cannot prove themselves except by bowing down to the Nord overlord and praising Talos and warring against the Empire for no real reason (the Thalmor have not attacked Dunmer culture).

Do you even have anything to prove they are guests/got the houses for free? That they did not work for them?

He looked at his hold first and tried to stay out of the war until forced. That seems like making the right choice.

 

[Vatonage]

Do you even have anything to prove they are guests/got the houses for free? That they did not work for them?

He looked at his hold first and tried to stay out of the war until forced. That seems like making the right choice.

Who said that there's no jobs? I didn't see posters around Windhelm with "We are out of jobs around the city. How convenient that the Dark Elves are now visiting!"

Like I said, there is a HIGH ELF (Race most associated with Thalmor, AKA Elf Nazis) that is respected in Windhelm. What, was there another poster that said

"P.S. We are now allowing High Elves in the workforce! No more racism for yoouuu!"

[Edit]Reply fail.

 

[Jeremius]

Do you even have anything to prove they are guests/got the houses for free? That they did not work for them?

He looked at his hold first and tried to stay out of the war until forced. That seems like making the right choice.

Who said that there's no jobs? I didn't see posters around Windhelm with "We are out of jobs around the city. How convenient that the Dark Elves are now visiting!"

Like I said, there is a HIGH ELF (Race most associated with Thalmor, AKA Elf Nazis) that is respected in Windhelm. What, was there a poster that said

"P.S. We are now allowing High Elves in the workforce! No more racism for yoouuu!"

[Edit]Reply fail.

Yet the Fact that you call the Dunmer Lazy when we see no one offering them jobs at all is telling;y racist against them.

Do you call beggars lazy for not working because they can't. After all, there has to be thousands of jobs that pay .1 gold a week for a hard day's work.

 

[Vatonage]

Yet the Fact that you call the Dunmer Lazy when we see no one offering them jobs at all is telling;y racist against them.

They're lazy for not just taking the Northern Maiden to Raven Rock, they'd be better off rather than rotting in Windhelm.

 

[Raijin]

In this situation, why not take the first step? Prove to the nords that you're valuable, and a great, worthwhile addition to the city? If a High Elf is treated with more respect than them (Arivyana, something like that) than doesn't that mean they are possibly doing it wrong?

I bet that if the Dunmer, say, found a Thalmor agent in Windhelm and reported it to the guards, they might get a little bit more respect and recognition. Or Maybe helping the Nords with farming or something. If they clearly see that they're in a "You help us, or get out" mentality, they're just hurting themselves by doing nothing.

Imagine, you're at war, with barely any resources that aren't going to the effort, and you suddenly have a bunch of foreigners dropped at your door, asking for your finest wine and cheeses right off the gate. Are you going to really be in a hospitable mood not only when they come out of nowhere, burdening you further, but then hardly work to help you, asking for you to help them?

The Dunmer are really going at this backwards. Really, I'm not sympathetic to most of them.

The Imperial supporters on this thread don't think like that. They believe that Ulfric should be giving the Dunmers anything that they ask and give in to their chronic complaining. I mean rebuilding their homes seems to be far more important then fighting a war. Fighting for freedom and for independence seems to be less important to the Windhelm Dunmers because it doesn't effect them. Funny how that works.

I don't know how it's even Ulfrics responsibility if the Dunmers purposely fail to keep maintenance to their homes. How on earth can they neglect such responsibility? Is it Ulfrics responsibility to hire janitors to pick up the trash from the Grey quarters? Has the Dunmers became so lazy from all of the slaves that they had back in Morrowind that they can't do a simple task? Can't the Dunmers do something without depending on the government? The Dunmers of Windhelm must be the liberals of Skyrim. No wonder the local Nords pick on them.

 

[Jeremius]

Yet the Fact that you call the Dunmer Lazy when we see no one offering them jobs at all is telling;y racist against them.

They're lazy for not just taking the Northern Maiden to Raven Rock, they'd be better off rather than rotting in Windhelm.

And I bet they would be a lot more willing to help the Nords IF the Rebel moron just offers them something in return. Ulfric refuses to even hear them, saying he is too busy. So the Dunmer are lazy for not being able to work because of a lack of jobs other than being slaves to the Nords fighting a war that they have no reason to get involved in.

 

[Jeremius]

In this situation, why not take the first step? Prove to the nords that you're valuable, and a great, worthwhile addition to the city? If a High Elf is treated with more respect than them (Arivyana, something like that) than doesn't that mean they are possibly doing it wrong?

I bet that if the Dunmer, say, found a Thalmor agent in Windhelm and reported it to the guards, they might get a little bit more respect and recognition. Or Maybe helping the Nords with farming or something. If they clearly see that they're in a "You help us, or get out" mentality, they're just hurting themselves by doing nothing.

Imagine, you're at war, with barely any resources that aren't going to the effort, and you suddenly have a bunch of foreigners dropped at your door, asking for your finest wine and cheeses right off the gate. Are you going to really be in a hospitable mood not only when they come out of nowhere, burdening you further, but then hardly work to help you, asking for you to help them?

The Dunmer are really going at this backwards. Really, I'm not sympathetic to most of them.

The Imperial supporters on this thread don't think like that. They believe that Ulfric should be giving the Dunmers anything that they ask and give in to their chronic complaining. I mean rebuilding their homes seems to be far more important then fighting a war. Fighting for freedom and for independence seems to be less important to the Windhelm Dunmers because it doesn't effect them. Funny how that works.

I don't know how it's even Ulfrics responsibility if the Dunmers purposely fail to keep maintenance to their homes. How on earth can they neglect such responsibility? Is it Ulfrics responsibility to hire janitors to pick up the trash from the Grey quarters? Has the Dunmers became so lazy from all of the slaves that they had back in Morrowind that they can't do a simple task? Can't the Dunmers do something without depending on the government? The Dunmers of Windhelm must be the liberals of Skyrim. No wonder the local Nords pick on them.

And how can they keep maintenance of their homes when all the resources are going to Ulfric's petty revenge against the empire?

 

[Raijin]

The Dunmer just want a chance to be treated fairly, to be given same chances as Nords. Nord can not be blind supporters of the Ulfric movement without being called imperial spies, but the Dunmer get discriminated because they cannot prove themselves except by bowing down to the Nord overlord and praising Talos and warring against the Empire for no real reason (the Thalmor have not attacked Dunmer culture).

Do you even have anything to prove they are guests/got the houses for free? That they did not work for them?

He looked at his hold first and tried to stay out of the war until forced. That seems like making the right choice.

And the Nords expect their new neighbors to be useful citizens. If you prove your worthiness you will gain respect.

 

[Jeremius]

The Dunmer just want a chance to be treated fairly, to be given same chances as Nords. Nord can not be blind supporters of the Ulfric movement without being called imperial spies, but the Dunmer get discriminated because they cannot prove themselves except by bowing down to the Nord overlord and praising Talos and warring against the Empire for no real reason (the Thalmor have not attacked Dunmer culture).

Do you even have anything to prove they are guests/got the houses for free? That they did not work for them?

He looked at his hold first and tried to stay out of the war until forced. That seems like making the right choice.

And the Nords expect their new neighbors to be useful citizens. If you prove your worthiness you will gain respect.

and how can you prove your worthiness when there is no way to do so unless you want to be a slave to a man who does not care about you at all, certainly not enough to at least promise to help them after the war?

there is no way Ulfric will accept the Dunmer because they do not want to get involved in the war, so them sudenly joining would not be them believing in his cause making them worthless allies. They are forced to be lazy because Ulfric wants them to blind want to help in a war they do not want because they see no reason for it.

 

[Vatonage]

and how can you prove your worthiness when there is no way to do so unless you want to be a slave to a man who does not care about you at all, certainly not enough to at least promise to help them after the war?

Exaggerated, much?

 

[Jeremius]

and how can you prove your worthiness when there is no way to do so unless you want to be a slave to a man who does not care about you at all, certainly not enough to at least promise to help them after the war?

Exaggerated, much?

That is all they can do. No jobs for them that we know of, and Ulfric will not even listen to them or offer to do anything to let them help themselves.

That is the truth.

 

[Raijin]

And how can they keep maintenance of their homes when all the resources are going to Ulfric's petty revenge against the empire?

The Dunmers don't live in apartments. They live in homes. It is their responsibility to keep maintenance. They should figure out where to find the resources without depending on Ulric.

If the Dunmers refuses to fight in the war because it isn't their war to fight then they need to back off with all of this request and demand because the priorities are set.

 

[Jeremius]

And how can they keep maintenance of their homes when all the resources are going to Ulfric's petty revenge against the empire?

The Dunmers don't live in apartments. They live in homes. It is their responsibility to keep maintenance. They should figure out where to find the resources without depending on Ulric.

If the Dunmers refuses to fight in the war because it isn't their war to fight then they need to back off with all of this request and demand because the priorities are set.

and all of the resources are going to Ulfric's war. Where can they get the resources to maintain their homes? Force people to buy resources and cause more problems? leave with no where to go because they cannot pay for entrance to Riften? force the Maiden to take them to Solstheim and still be seen as bad?

 

[Vatonage]

That is all they can do. No leadership for them that we know of, and the Empire will not even listen to them or offer to do anything to let them help themselves.

That is the truth.

Unrelated, but isn't this the Stormcloaks cause?

Just sound similar. Heheh

Why not Dunmercloaks?

 

[Raijin]

and how can you prove your worthiness when there is no way to do so unless you want to be a slave to a man who does not care about you at all, certainly not enough to at least promise to help them after the war?

Exaggerated, much?

That is all they can do. No jobs for them that we know of, and Ulfric will not even listen to them or offer to do anything to let them help themselves.

That is the truth.

They own the pawn store (Which the city guard gives them advertisement to travelers), A Farm who has a Nord employee, tavern, shipping company, vendor.... yeah they have jobs and are doing well too. What do you mean that they have no jobs? They're working and collecting resources.

 

[Jeremius]

Exaggerated, much?

That is all they can do. No jobs for them that we know of, and Ulfric will not even listen to them or offer to do anything to let them help themselves.

That is the truth.

They own the pawn store (Which the city guard gives them advertisement to travelers), A Farm who has a Nord employee, tavern, shipping company, vendor.... yeah they have jobs and are doing well too. What do you mean that they have no jobs? They're working and collecting resources.

And they are still complaining and Ulfric still does not listen. That is them NOT being lazy. That is them having a legitimate gripe that the Stormcloaks call laziness for racism.

 

[Raijin]

And how can they keep maintenance of their homes when all the resources are going to Ulfric's petty revenge against the empire?

The Dunmers don't live in apartments. They live in homes. It is their responsibility to keep maintenance. They should figure out where to find the resources without depending on Ulric.

If the Dunmers refuses to fight in the war because it isn't their war to fight then they need to back off with all of this request and demand because the priorities are set.

and all of the resources are going to Ulfric's war. Where can they get the resources to maintain their homes? Force people to buy resources and cause more problems? leave with no where to go because they cannot pay for entrance to Riften? force the Maiden to take them to Solstheim and still be seen as bad?

Prove it.

 

[Raijin]

That is all they can do. No jobs for them that we know of, and Ulfric will not even listen to them or offer to do anything to let them help themselves.

That is the truth.

They own the pawn store (Which the city guard gives them advertisement to travelers), A Farm who has a Nord employee, tavern, shipping company, vendor.... yeah they have jobs and are doing well too. What do you mean that they have no jobs? They're working and collecting resources.

And they are still complaining and Ulfric still does not listen. That is them NOT being lazy. That is them having a legitimate gripe that the Stormcloaks call laziness for racism.

I tend to ignore people who are chronic complainers. Complaining doesn't get you anywhere. It will only annoy the person whom you're trying to get attention. It also annoys a person when you refuse to acknowledge the severity of what is currently going on.

 

[Jeremius]

They own the pawn store (Which the city guard gives them advertisement to travelers), A Farm who has a Nord employee, tavern, shipping company, vendor.... yeah they have jobs and are doing well too. What do you mean that they have no jobs? They're working and collecting resources.

And they are still complaining and Ulfric still does not listen. That is them NOT being lazy. That is them having a legitimate gripe that the Stormcloaks call laziness for racism.

I tend to ignore people who are chronic complainers. Complaining doesn't get you anywhere. It will only annoy the person whom you're trying to get attention. It also annoys a person when you refuse to acknowledge the severity of what is currently going on.

And complaints that are legitimate are annoying? OR are they annoying because you simply do not care about the situation. That is what I think Ulfric was trying to say about the Dunmer situation when he told his steward to tell them he "had more important things to deal with."

Ulfric does not have to do anything more that have the steward tell them that "Skyrim's freedom is the main situation right now as it encompasses more than just the hold, but Ulfric promises to help you out after the war when he can, if you are just patient." That might get them on his side more than "Shut up I am busy" or something much more similar.

 

[Vatonage]

And complaints that are legitimate are annoying? OR are they annoying because you simply do not care about the situation. That is what I think Ulfric was trying to say about the Dunmer situation when he told his steward to tell them he "had more important things to deal with."

Ulfric does not have to do anything more that have the steward tell them that "Skyrim's freedom is the main situation right now as it encompasses more than just the hold, but Ulfric promises to help you out after the war when he can, if you are just patient." That might get them on his side more than "Shut up I am busy" or something much more similar.

So the Dunmer are too thick to think that he just MIGHT be occupied with a war?