Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[DrunkenMage]

I'm pretty sure that it was more than just dangerous prisoners that they were thinking of and who are those most notorious criminals that she was speaking about? The Forsworn? Yeah they're criminals for fighting to regain back their region that the Empire had stolen from them by hiring Ulfric and his Talos worshiping men to take it back. The reach was quite peaceful under Forsworn control for 2 years up until the Empire forced their influences.

Except prisoners is all that is mentioned. So it's all we got.

Yet the Empire would rather stick to their steel made armor rather than to take an advantage of the Stalhrim material that can betterment of their overall armory and weapons.

Look at the weight and the ratings of both. It's safe to say that they do not know a whole lot about this material.

Mass production. Steel is far more common and easily shaped. The Empire has been known in the past to use ebony and even Daedric weapons and armor.

Why isn't the Empire desperate enough to betterment their weapons and armor? Arrogance do not win wars. Do they really have confidence over their steel made armor that they think they can use to win the second round of this great war? If I was the Emperor I would be doing exactly what the Thalmor are doing and try to discover new materials to use for my armies because I owe it to them, since they're willing to risk their lives to keep me on the throne.

They are mass producing weapons and armor, even in Skyrim. They're also buying weapons from Black Marsh.

Because you need things in bulk, and there is no point in kidnapping one smith, to make your weapons and armor. There is desperate and then there's Thalmor desperate.

Empire is smarter to use steel, it's far more common and is easier to work with as a material. Are you going to equip your soldiers with what is readily available or waste resources trying to get other things, that may or may not work out.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I don't really believe that the Empire knows about Stalhrim, but they haven't been desperate enough to run around begging, kidnapping or spying for it.

The EETC knew about it. No reason to assume the Empire wouldn't know.

 

[Raijin]

The Forsworn "stole" it first. It was not theirs to begin with. and it was Ingmund's family, not the Empire, that hired Ulfric and his boys. I doubt the Empire had any knowledge, considering the reachmen were trying to get the Empire to recognize "their kingdom" when that mess happened.

Their seems to be a lot of stealing going on around here because if I remember correctly Skyrim once belonged to the snow elves up until the Nords showed up (Reminds me when the white people first came to North America and stole the land from the native Indians) and essentially invaded it thus becoming the home of the nords.

The way I see it Skyrim rightfully belongs to Knight-Paladin Gelebor and Arch-Curate Vyrthur and other snow elves that might be around, somewhere.

 

[Jeremius]

The Forsworn "stole" it first. It was not theirs to begin with. and it was Ingmund's family, not the Empire, that hired Ulfric and his boys. I doubt the Empire had any knowledge, considering the reachmen were trying to get the Empire to recognize "their kingdom" when that mess happened.

Their seems to be a lot of stealing going on around here because if I remember correctly Skyrim once belonged to the snow elves up until the Nords showed up (Reminds me when the white people first came to North America and stole the land from the native Indians) and essentially invaded it thus becoming the home of the nords.

The way I see it Skyrim rightfully belongs to Knight-Paladin Gelebor and Arch-Curate Vyrthur and other snow elves that might be around, somewhere.

Technically, it was the Nord's ancestors who stole it, and the Snow elves are just two brothers, so I do not see how that is relevant.

 

[NENALATA]

Raijin


I may have said a negative comment or two in the past about Imperial (Cyrodillic) Gear, however, it's really not that bad. That Gladius is actually very useful when paired with a shield. I dunno... something about it makes it work perfectly. I think the Imperial Gladius swings a little faster than the Nord Longsword. Which is awesome too. I carry both.

Besides, you can always upgrade your Cyrodillic Gear and make it stronger. ALSO the Nords produce better variants of some Cyrodillic Gear like the Gauntlets and Boots and in theory, should also be more pieces of Cyrodillic Armor such as Cuirass, Helmets, Shields etc that are made by the Nords. Game doesn't include them. Doesn't make this any less a possibility.

Cyrodillic Gear is still pretty good for mass production. Nords take a little more 'artistic license' however the Imperial Gear still looks pretty good.

 

[Raijin]

The point that I'm trying to make here is that you said that the Forsworn "stole" it first. If were going to use that term we might want to discuss who truly stole the land. It was man that stole the land from the elves.

 

[NENALATA]

Jeremius said: ↑

The Forsworn "stole" it first. It was not theirs to begin with. and it was Ingmund's family, not the Empire, that hired Ulfric and his boys. I doubt the Empire had any knowledge, considering the reachmen were trying to get the Empire to recognize "their kingdom" when that mess happened.​

Their seems to be a lot of stealing going on around here because if I remember correctly Skyrim once belonged to the snow elves up until the Nords showed up (Reminds me when the white people first came to North America and stole the land from the native Indians) and essentially invaded it thus becoming the home of the nords.

The way I see it Skyrim rightfully belongs to Knight-Paladin Gelebor and Arch-Curate Vyrthur and other snow elves that might be around, somewhere.

Um... no. Nice try. It was actually alot more complicated than that. The Indians fought wars amongst each other too. Some Indians welcomed and allied with us evil 'white people'. Alot went on with that.

 

[NENALATA]

The point that I'm trying to make here is that you said that the Forsworn "stole" it first. If were going to use that term we might want to discuss who truly stole the land. It was man that stole the land from the elves.

Yep and Ulfric stole it from the 'Reachmen'. Who then became the Forsworn. After the Markarth Incident.

In fairness, the Jarl of Markarth signed off on it however, Ulfric and the rest of the Freedom Fighters agreed to it. If your principles are guided by Freedom and mutual respect, then you would implicitly NOT desire to deny others same Freedom(s), due to mutual principles.

 

[Raijin]

Um... no. Nice try. It was actually alot more complicated than that. The Indians fought wars amongst each other too. Some Indians welcomed and allied with us evil 'white people'. Alot went on with that.

The white people stole North America and force them to live in Indian reservations, which is not a whole lot, and are among the poorest places in America. I don't think the Indians wanted to live in poverty.

 

[Raijin]

The point that I'm trying to make here is that you said that the Forsworn "stole" it first. If were going to use that term we might want to discuss who truly stole the land. It was man that stole the land from the elves.

Yep and Ulfric stole it from the 'Reachmen'. Who then became the Forsworn. After the Markarth Incident.

Ulfric didn't steal it. He was hired by the Empire under false promise of religious worship to seize the city, and he did. When push comes to shove when Ulfric started demanding his Talos worship the Thalmor heard about it and demanded to have him arrested.

 

[Jeremius]

The point that I'm trying to make here is that you said that the Forsworn "stole" it first. If were going to use that term we might want to discuss who truly stole the land. It was man that stole the land from the elves.

Yep and Ulfric stole it from the 'Reachmen'. Who then became the Forsworn. After the Markarth Incident.

Ulfric didn't steal it. He was hired by the Empire under false promise of religious worship to seize the city, and he did. When push comes to shove when Ulfric started demanding his Talos worship the Thalmor heard about it and demanded to have him arrested.

Again, it was Ingmund's family. you have no evidence to show that the Empire was involved in the deal making at all.

 

[NENALATA]

Like I said. Empire is in bad shape but trying, however Ulfric could do far worse with an charismatic army of zealots.

Empire seems mad enough itself about the WGC.

Something to think about.

 

[Jeremius]

Like I said. Empire is in bad shape but trying, however Ulfric could do far worse with an charismatic army of zealots.

Empire seems mad enough itself about the WGC.

Something to think about.

Agreed, seems the Empire wants war with the Thalmor as much as, or more than, the Stormcloaks do.

 

[Raijin]

Again, it was Ingmund's family. you have no evidence to show that the Empire was involved in the deal making at all.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_"Madmen"_of_the_Reach

"You want to know who the Forsworn are? We are the people who must pillage our own land. Burn our own ground. We are the scourge of the Nords. The axe that falls in the dark. The scream before the gods claim your soul. We are the true sons and daughters of the Reach. The spirits and hags have lived here from the beginning, and they are on our side. Go back. Go back and tell your Empire that we will have our own kingdom again. And on that day, we will be the ones burying your dead in a land that is no longer yours."

Igmund family is and are part of the Empire. They're suppose to make sure that Imperial laws are followed in their cities (Including the rest of the Jarls in Skyrim), and not to be broken, since Skyrim is indeed the provinces of the Empire. They're suppose to be a Nord representation of the Empire.

 

[Jeremius]

Again, it was Ingmund's family. you have no evidence to show that the Empire was involved in the deal making at all.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_"Madmen"_of_the_Reach

"You want to know who the Forsworn are? We are the people who must pillage our own land. Burn our own ground. We are the scourge of the Nords. The axe that falls in the dark. The scream before the gods claim your soul. We are the true sons and daughters of the Reach. The spirits and hags have lived here from the beginning, and they are on our side. Go back. Go back and tell your Empire that we will have our own kingdom again. And on that day, we will be the ones burying your dead in a land that is no longer yours."

Igmund family is and are part of the Empire. They're suppose to make sure that Imperial laws are followed in their cities (Including the rest of the Jarls in Skyrim), and not to be broken, since Skyrim is indeed the provinces of the Empire. They're suppose to be a Nord representation of the Empire.

Still does not prove that the Empire actually had anything to do with the deal, just that the Forsworn blame the Empire for not giving them sovereignty of that area. And Ingmund's family may have been representatives of the Empire, but that does not mean a thing. They lost it, had no power in that area, so are they really representing the Empire?

As far as I know, losing control of your hold=losing the power and authority of the Empire.

 

[DrunkenMage]

"It's the whole reason Ulfric revolted against the Empire. Well, the first reason anyway. Forsworn had taken over Markarth, and Ulfric and his men drove them out. Empire promised they'd be free to worship Talos afterwords. Pity no one told the Elves. Whole group of those Thalmor came and they demanded Ulfric's arrest."

 

[Jeremius]

"It's the whole reason Ulfric revolted against the Empire. Well, the first reason anyway. Forsworn had taken over Markarth, and Ulfric and his men drove them out. Empire promised they'd be free to worship Talos afterwords. Pity no one told the Elves. Whole group of those Thalmor came and they demanded Ulfric's arrest."

Y'know, DrunkenMage, I am just going to leave you to deal with Raijin from now on. I am getting a headache from this.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Raijin

Imperials colonize into space. Other than that, Stormcloaks are the way to go.

 

[Raijin]

Raijin

Imperials colonize into space. Other than that, Stormcloaks are the way to go.

 

[Jorrvaskr]

Stormcloaks, they're the better option.