J
Jeremius
Guest
I meant about the Empire. The fact hat they are, essentially, part of the dominion for now, and incredibly weakened by the great war.
Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?
- Thread starter EvilCrazyCows
- Start date
I meant about the Empire. The fact hat they are, essentially, part of the dominion for now, and incredibly weakened by the great war.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Of course they were weakened by the Great War, but essentially part of the Aldmeri Dominion is a far stretch since only Thalmor and not the Dominion's soldiers may enter Imperial lands. It was a peace both sides desperately needed, just the Thalmor boast a lot.
Though on that subject of being part of the Dominion
Raijin no doubt likes to use the fact Tullius is at the embassy party as to why the Thalmor owns the Empire, but also conveniently doesn't mention Tullius himself says he would refuse, but doesn't want to cause an incident. (Since he is there in a political sense, and until his orders say attack the Dominion, he has to suck up his pride.)
But, in truth the only reason Elenwen forces Tullius to go there, is best said by Maven.
"That's General Tullius himself. He can't stand Elenwen, but she insists that he attend these parties. Just to piss him off, no doubt."
NENALATA
Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
Hmmm. I wouldn't say the Empire is part of the Dominion. We're not there yet. If the Dominion is getting ready for war like Mage said, then the Empire is the target.
Both sides made concessions in the WGC. Everyone just focuses heavily on what the Empire gave up as opposed to what the Dominion lost.
True, the WGC seems kind of one sided but the things the Empire lost won't stop it from winning next time. Well, in theory.
The sad truth in all this is that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Only difference is the Empire realizes this and the Stormcloaks have yet to see it.
NENALATA
Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
Furthermore, when the Dominion do come calling, I'd rather have Gen Tullius on my side as opposed to Jarl Ulfric.
Because Gen Tullius is always like, "Alright let's all sit around a kitchen table and figure this out..." as opposed to, "Skyrim needs to be free of an Empire that blah blah blah and everything is always someone else's fault and I'm the second coming of Talos and and and..."
When hell, death and the grave come calling for me, I'd rather have someone in my company who knows how to think instead of someone who knows how to run his mouth about what HE deserves and whose fault it is.
Because Gen Tullius is always like, "Alright let's all sit around a kitchen table and figure this out..." as opposed to, "Skyrim needs to be free of an Empire that blah blah blah and everything is always someone else's fault and I'm the second coming of Talos and and and..."
When hell, death and the grave come calling for me, I'd rather have someone in my company who knows how to think instead of someone who knows how to run his mouth about what HE deserves and whose fault it is.
NENALATA
Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
DrunkenMage said: ↑
DatKillDoe27 said: ↑
I chose the Imperials because they are the lesser of the 2 evils. I still I hate the Thalmor part of the Imperials, but the Stormcloaks are just too pretentious and elitist. They hate almost all races. The Thalmor think that they are elite as well. The Imperials, however, do not like the Thalmor , so I chose them.Some nice dialogue of people talking about Ulfric.
"Between you and I, I think his motivations are a bit more self-serving. He uses this holy war as leverage in order to pursue the throne. If he were to be crowned High King, I'm not so certain it would be the golden age his followers expect.""I've heard some things about Ulfric I don't like"
There are some things that the stormcloaks got right, though.
But that's the problem. Yes, you can be right and still be dead wrong. Just because Stormcloaks are right does not mean they're right for the right reason.
What kind of person who fights for freedom based on principle, will turn around and deny others the same freedom(s)? Especially for their own gain... LoL That sounds like a brigand to me.
And I'll be the first to agree... the Empire is WRONG.
However, sometimes the truth is so precious it must be guarded by an Legion of lies.
Rimfaxe96
Well-Known Member
Oh and hi everyone
Hi there, welcome to team Imperial. The "Winner" ratings go to DrunkenMage, the "Agree" ones to Anouck and I try to claim all of the "Funny" ratings.
Enjoy the forum
Seanu Reaves
The Shogun of Gaming
Oh and hi everyone
Hi there, welcome to team Imperial. The "Winner" ratings go to DrunkenMage, the "Agree" ones to Anouck and I try to claim all of the "Funny" ratings.
Enjoy the forum
Careful DKD... I think he wants one of your D's if you know what I am sayin'
Rimfaxe96
Well-Known Member
*she
Guys, if someone in a forum has horses as avatar and signature and they are not battlemounts or My Little Pony-horses then the user is most likely female!
Perhaps I should just change my style into something more girly or make celebtrity references all the time... but all that research this would require, ugh...
Nah, I'll stick to the Imperial Library for now.
Ozan
the Magnificent Bastard
Same arguments, different day. #SCvImpThings
They who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. Which is why the same thing happens over and over and over. Though it may be a different universe, sharing different lore, the human element remains the same. In world history itself, we compare what happened to this civilization to a completely different one.
The fact that I can't compare what has happened in our timeline to the TES timeline dehumanizes TES and can make it less appealing. If there is no possibility, there is no interest. If there is no connection to what we know, what we are familiar with, then it seems far too odd to pursue. Hence why the Legion look like Romans, the Nords are called Nords, and even the Dark Elves refer to lords with the term "Ur", a Hungarian word.
Both sides of the argument HAVE used history in our world to compare what could possibly happen, not referencing the history or the circumstance, but the humanity of the occurrence. When I made my comparison, it was a reference of what very well could happen... because it happens more than you think.
Of course, you overlook the pont of what I post or miss it altogether.
The Legion tolerates more than they should and ignores who they shouldn't. The Legion quests often involved going out and rescuing someone who has been kidnapped. The Legion, however, has looked into certain murders and events.
My issue is, they don't maintain the consistency. If so and so was killed, how did the legion know about it and then demand the deed to Vibdas's property? Why do they even want the deed? Because she can't pay taxes?
"General Darius at the Madach Tradehouse in Gnisis will ask you to retrieve a land deed from the Widow Vabdas, whose husband died recently in the Gnisis Eggmine. The General wants Vabdas' land for a new dock and tells you not to take 'no' for an answer."
"Explore the lower mines until you find the ghost of Mansilamat Vabdas in the underground stream. It will tell you that Lugrub killed him to hide the fact that he was sleeping on the job when Vabdas entered. As evidence, he directs you to the broken axe (Lugrub's Axe) at the bottom of the pool nearby."
-UESP
Darius KNEW Vabdas died. But, there was no body. He wasn't a missing person, he was dead. His body had to be found and the axe to be retreaved before he would change his mind (and therefore taking "no" as an answer)
My entire point isn't to slander the legion because one low rank Orc killed a guy to hide his laziness, my entire point is to slander the Legion because the officers don't care about the people of their vast empire.
Now, that being said, Morrowind's 'treaty'. It said that they could keep slaves. If it said they gave up their slaves, Morrowind wouldn't sign. WGC said you must give up Talos, and the Imperials signed it anyways. Elves are better at diplomacy than Imperials, it seems. Just sayin'!
The Imperials allow slaves, the Imperials even allow which slaves (ie criminals who are enslaved and then sold to the player). So... slavery may be legal, and it may have to be by treaty. But that doesn't mean you can't make the slave trade illegal.
And concerning Ocato's response... actually, you have a very good point. I'll edit out that part, but it still stands you didn't have to mention his race and single him out. Thats like saying "What do you see with your Elven eyes?!" "I don't know. What do you see with your human ones?"
Anyways, I'll find that post and put a slash through that guy's name.
Anyways, the Imperial Watch cracking down on the Thieves Guild. Sure, nice to crack down on crime, but when you take over an ENTIRE section of the city while looking for one guy who just to try to get someone in the area to break and reveal the location of someone else, then it is a bit stepping over the line.
"S'Krivva in Bravil informs you that Hieronymus Lex has invaded the Waterfront District, moving a huge number of the City Watch to patrol there in hopes of finding and arresting the Gray Fox. Armand Christophe has once again been placed under house arrest and many of your fellow Thieves Guild members have either been arrested or forced into hiding."
-UESP
"The cubs grow hungry and some may break."
~S'Krivva
That would be like raiding the ghetto to arrest all the Bloods. I'd like very much to hear what charges some of the members have been arrested for, as there may be little evidence to prove an arrest was law-bound. This officer is over stepping his boundaries and abusing his power (hence why the Mage's Guild has him stop with this malarkey because of getting robbed and stuff. #Strategy).
Back to the slavery issue.
Again, my issue isn't that the Dunmer had slaves but they were ALLOWED slaves. Your issue with the Khajiit is that they have slaves too.
Alright. So, Khajiit are just as bad as the Dunmer. Again, I won't be joining the Khajiit during this civil war. Nor will I be joining the Legion, however, because the Empire they serve allowed slavery in Morrowind for so long.
May I also get a link concerning the slavery committed by Stormcloaks, or rather, planned for by the Stormcloaks? If you're referring to Cidhna Mine, that isn't controlled by Stormcloak or Imperial.
And that reminds me, all this about how Ulfric was a petty tyrant and mass murderer when he took Markarth back, I agree again. Thing is, it was the local government who allowed it... I also didn't see the Empire mind too much, not until the Thalmor learned of it.
If the Thalmor didn't find out, it would be just another event that the Empire tolerated, passing no judgement and knowing no worry.
And finally, the Great War.
Lets do some historical comparisons, shall we? France and Germany is a good start, as there was a war that was considered great at that time.
France had set up a bunch of forts outside Alsace-Lorraine. Rather than fight those forts head on, they figured it would be easier to just march through Belgium, a neutral country. However, Belgium didn't want to be a part of it, so Germany invaded anyways (#GermanThings) and pushed well into France, an elaborate surprise invasion that would have worked if they had stuck to the original plan.
Well, the Thalmor attacked Imperial forces from hidden camps in Elsweyr.
It doesn't matter, Elsweyr became a satellite state and should practically be considered part of the Aldmeri Dominion. The fact that the troops were scattered throughout the empire rather than focused near borders of potential threats (ie the growing and quite ambitious Aldmeri Dominion) is a sign of poor leadership. France didn't build forts near the Pyrenees prior to WWI because they didn't have to. Spain wasn't a threat. They built them near where former territory once was.
Sort of like how Elsweyr and Valenwood were once part of the Empire. Just saying.
Oh, and my response to "Not even the Blades saw it coming!"
"On the 30th of Frostfall, 4E 171, the Aldmeri Dominion sent an ambassador to the Imperial City with a gift in a covered cart and an ultimatum for the new Emperor. The long list of demands included staggering tributes, disbandment of the Blades, outlawing the worship of Talos, and ceding large sections of Hammerfell to the Dominion. Despite the warnings of his generals of the Empire's military weakness, Emperor Titus Mede II rejected the ultimatum. The Thalmor ambassador upended the cart, spilling over a hundred heads on the floor: every Blades agent in Summerset and Valenwood. And so began the Great War which would consume the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion for the next five years."
Probably because they were dealt with, and dealt with thoroughly. Nice recon, there.))
They who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. Which is why the same thing happens over and over and over. Though it may be a different universe, sharing different lore, the human element remains the same. In world history itself, we compare what happened to this civilization to a completely different one.
The fact that I can't compare what has happened in our timeline to the TES timeline dehumanizes TES and can make it less appealing. If there is no possibility, there is no interest. If there is no connection to what we know, what we are familiar with, then it seems far too odd to pursue. Hence why the Legion look like Romans, the Nords are called Nords, and even the Dark Elves refer to lords with the term "Ur", a Hungarian word.
Both sides of the argument HAVE used history in our world to compare what could possibly happen, not referencing the history or the circumstance, but the humanity of the occurrence. When I made my comparison, it was a reference of what very well could happen... because it happens more than you think.
Forsworn don't fight for their people. Since they also attack Reachmen. They just want to kill all Nords, hardly a worthy or even political cause.
No it doesn't, especially when you're grasping at straws to put blame onto the Legion for everything.
Wow, so a soldier who committed murder over two hundred years ago means the Military are bad.
Because Morrowind was special. It wasn't taken by Military conquest, so a treaty had to be signed. Known as the Armistice Treaty. It protected many Dunmer customs, Great House Law etc.
No, go back and read what your other source said.
Are you seriously going to try compare Legion to US Army and Count's men at arms as National Guard?
There is a difference between Legionnaires and soldiers that Counts own. If you can't see it, then alright you're thick.
The soldiers in the various cities belong to the counts, as their men at arms. Bearing their sigils. Some of the soldiers are given to them by the Legion to serve them until their Imperial Contracts end, and it is up to the Count/Countess to keep them. As noted by Transfer Orders in Oblivion.
Also given Ocato's dialogue in Oblivion, city guards do not count as Legion soldiers.
City Guards maintain law in the cities. Legionnaires patrol the country side and protect the capital city.
Lol, I'm racist now? You're getting pathetic, even more so than I remember. I was pointing out his race and class because in the game Oblivion, Legionnaires in Cyrodiil are Imperial. But I guess you knew that? No, didn't think so.
Yet Legionnaires can be arrested themselves, so they're not above the law.
You don't even know what oppression is, the Imperial Watch doing an investigation being hard on the Thieves Guild and they're oppressors for doing so.
No one agrees with Elderscrollswiki. They're poorly maintained and hold incorrect information. If I'm bad for wanting you to use correct information, not just the summary of someone's own words. Then yeah, sorry for being bad, poor Ozan.
No one is saying someone is doing something makes it right. You say Dunmer are bad for slavery, well Khajiit are just as bad. Stormcloaks also plan to do slavery in the Reach.
Can't condemn one without the others.
The Empire wasn't prepared for an invasion, they just had some defenses on Valenwood. The entire Great War was a surprise. If you're unable to see that, you either don't understand tactics, or just are blind. Especially since many people mention it being a surprise, even the Blades.
You're just naturally ignorant. Always have been.
Of course, you overlook the pont of what I post or miss it altogether.
The Legion tolerates more than they should and ignores who they shouldn't. The Legion quests often involved going out and rescuing someone who has been kidnapped. The Legion, however, has looked into certain murders and events.
My issue is, they don't maintain the consistency. If so and so was killed, how did the legion know about it and then demand the deed to Vibdas's property? Why do they even want the deed? Because she can't pay taxes?
"General Darius at the Madach Tradehouse in Gnisis will ask you to retrieve a land deed from the Widow Vabdas, whose husband died recently in the Gnisis Eggmine. The General wants Vabdas' land for a new dock and tells you not to take 'no' for an answer."
"Explore the lower mines until you find the ghost of Mansilamat Vabdas in the underground stream. It will tell you that Lugrub killed him to hide the fact that he was sleeping on the job when Vabdas entered. As evidence, he directs you to the broken axe (Lugrub's Axe) at the bottom of the pool nearby."
-UESP
Darius KNEW Vabdas died. But, there was no body. He wasn't a missing person, he was dead. His body had to be found and the axe to be retreaved before he would change his mind (and therefore taking "no" as an answer)
My entire point isn't to slander the legion because one low rank Orc killed a guy to hide his laziness, my entire point is to slander the Legion because the officers don't care about the people of their vast empire.
Now, that being said, Morrowind's 'treaty'. It said that they could keep slaves. If it said they gave up their slaves, Morrowind wouldn't sign. WGC said you must give up Talos, and the Imperials signed it anyways. Elves are better at diplomacy than Imperials, it seems. Just sayin'!
The Imperials allow slaves, the Imperials even allow which slaves (ie criminals who are enslaved and then sold to the player). So... slavery may be legal, and it may have to be by treaty. But that doesn't mean you can't make the slave trade illegal.
And concerning Ocato's response... actually, you have a very good point. I'll edit out that part, but it still stands you didn't have to mention his race and single him out. Thats like saying "What do you see with your Elven eyes?!" "I don't know. What do you see with your human ones?"
Anyways, I'll find that post and put a slash through that guy's name.
Anyways, the Imperial Watch cracking down on the Thieves Guild. Sure, nice to crack down on crime, but when you take over an ENTIRE section of the city while looking for one guy who just to try to get someone in the area to break and reveal the location of someone else, then it is a bit stepping over the line.
"S'Krivva in Bravil informs you that Hieronymus Lex has invaded the Waterfront District, moving a huge number of the City Watch to patrol there in hopes of finding and arresting the Gray Fox. Armand Christophe has once again been placed under house arrest and many of your fellow Thieves Guild members have either been arrested or forced into hiding."
-UESP
"The cubs grow hungry and some may break."
~S'Krivva
That would be like raiding the ghetto to arrest all the Bloods. I'd like very much to hear what charges some of the members have been arrested for, as there may be little evidence to prove an arrest was law-bound. This officer is over stepping his boundaries and abusing his power (hence why the Mage's Guild has him stop with this malarkey because of getting robbed and stuff. #Strategy).
Back to the slavery issue.
Again, my issue isn't that the Dunmer had slaves but they were ALLOWED slaves. Your issue with the Khajiit is that they have slaves too.
Alright. So, Khajiit are just as bad as the Dunmer. Again, I won't be joining the Khajiit during this civil war. Nor will I be joining the Legion, however, because the Empire they serve allowed slavery in Morrowind for so long.
May I also get a link concerning the slavery committed by Stormcloaks, or rather, planned for by the Stormcloaks? If you're referring to Cidhna Mine, that isn't controlled by Stormcloak or Imperial.
And that reminds me, all this about how Ulfric was a petty tyrant and mass murderer when he took Markarth back, I agree again. Thing is, it was the local government who allowed it... I also didn't see the Empire mind too much, not until the Thalmor learned of it.
If the Thalmor didn't find out, it would be just another event that the Empire tolerated, passing no judgement and knowing no worry.
And finally, the Great War.
Lets do some historical comparisons, shall we? France and Germany is a good start, as there was a war that was considered great at that time.
France had set up a bunch of forts outside Alsace-Lorraine. Rather than fight those forts head on, they figured it would be easier to just march through Belgium, a neutral country. However, Belgium didn't want to be a part of it, so Germany invaded anyways (#GermanThings) and pushed well into France, an elaborate surprise invasion that would have worked if they had stuck to the original plan.
Well, the Thalmor attacked Imperial forces from hidden camps in Elsweyr.
It doesn't matter, Elsweyr became a satellite state and should practically be considered part of the Aldmeri Dominion. The fact that the troops were scattered throughout the empire rather than focused near borders of potential threats (ie the growing and quite ambitious Aldmeri Dominion) is a sign of poor leadership. France didn't build forts near the Pyrenees prior to WWI because they didn't have to. Spain wasn't a threat. They built them near where former territory once was.
Sort of like how Elsweyr and Valenwood were once part of the Empire. Just saying.
Oh, and my response to "Not even the Blades saw it coming!"
"On the 30th of Frostfall, 4E 171, the Aldmeri Dominion sent an ambassador to the Imperial City with a gift in a covered cart and an ultimatum for the new Emperor. The long list of demands included staggering tributes, disbandment of the Blades, outlawing the worship of Talos, and ceding large sections of Hammerfell to the Dominion. Despite the warnings of his generals of the Empire's military weakness, Emperor Titus Mede II rejected the ultimatum. The Thalmor ambassador upended the cart, spilling over a hundred heads on the floor: every Blades agent in Summerset and Valenwood. And so began the Great War which would consume the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion for the next five years."
Probably because they were dealt with, and dealt with thoroughly. Nice recon, there.))
Ozan
the Magnificent Bastard
Hi there, welcome to team Imperial. The "Winner" ratings go to DrunkenMage, the "Agree" ones to Anouck and I try to claim all of the "Funny" ratings.
Enjoy the forum
Power through superior "agree with this" buttons.
I remember when Stormcloaks used to come in here, but they were chased off. Ah, well.))
Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
Hi there, welcome to team Imperial. The "Winner" ratings go to DrunkenMage, the "Agree" ones to Anouck and I try to claim all of the "Funny" ratings.
Enjoy the forum
Power through superior "agree with this" buttons.
I remember when Stormcloaks used to come in here, but they were chased off. Ah, well.))
They weren't chased off they (Pro Stormcloaks) just prevented all of this insanity from leaking inside their heads.
You know how insane it is to keep repeating the same damn debate about the Imperials and the Stormcloaks over and over again, and expect something different to come out of it? That's crazy.
Ozan
the Magnificent Bastard
That game was stupid overrated. I got my hopes high, but its just an FPS of AssCreed.))
Seanu Reaves
The Shogun of Gaming
G.I.R.L. Is a key part of internet protocol, but doesn't excuse my own laziness. I suppose this is my formal apology, which is a rarity in this thread I assure you, in that I am sorry for not checking your profile for gender.
And since I am apologizing won't be all passive aggressive. Either way. I am sorry my good lady.
NENALATA
Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
NENALATA said: ↑
Also using World History on here is great and all, but can't relate exactly the same as what's going on in Tamriel. I've seen Stormcloaks try this all the time. Well such and such happened to this or that country so the Empire is evil and dead, all this stuff.But this is not this or that country. This is Tamriel and while some of the real world countries are similar to say European nations, the problem with relying heavily on real world content is that what's actually going on in Tamriel gets overlooked, left out of the batch.They who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. Which is why the same thing happens over and over and over. Though it may be a different universe, sharing different lore, the human element remains the same. In world history itself, we compare what happened to this civilization to a completely different one.
The fact that I can't compare what has happened in our timeline to the TES timeline dehumanizes TES and can make it less appealing. If there is no possibility, there is no interest. If there is no connection to what we know, what we are familiar with, then it seems far too odd to pursue. Hence why the Legion look like Romans, the Nords are called Nords, and even the Dark Elves refer to lords with the term "Ur", a Hungarian word.
Both sides of the argument HAVE used history in our world to compare what could possibly happen, not referencing the history or the circumstance, but the humanity of the occurrence. When I made my comparison, it was a reference of what very well could happen... because it happens more than you think.
Fair enough. As long as it's understood there are other races in Tamriel other than humans. World history on our end doesn't have Elves and Kahjits and such.
I would keep that in mind.
Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
If you talk to Darius about the deed afterwards, it will turn out that the Legion has started a donation fund for the widow, to which you can contribute if you want. - UESP
The Legion wants the deed to create a new dock.
White-Gold Concordat was signed after a destructive war, that nearly destroyed the Empire.
The Armistice was signed cause Tiber Septim wanted Numidium, also he got Black Marsh out of it too.
Slavery was ended in Morrowind, all the slaves were returned home. The Empire doesn't allow slavery in it's borders.
I mentioned his race, because in the game Oblivion all the Legionnaires are Imperial for some reason.
He didn't know where the Gray Fox was, but he could have either been there or someone knows where he is. He's doing his job, to the extremes yes. Which is exactly why the Grey Fox wants him to protect his wife.
"For reasons unknown to this one, the Gray Fox has extended his protection to the Umbranox family and Lady Umbranox in particular. While Lex is a problem for the guild, his unwavering loyalty and resolve make him the perfect protector for Lady Umbranox."
Also Lex is a good Officer, which is why the Gray Fox also wants him to serve as Captain of the Guard in his own city. He's not an oppressor, but a man with strong resolve and won't stop to uphold the law.
Where did escaped slaves run to?
It is controlled by the Silver-Bloods. Stormcloak supporters, the head of the family becomes Jarl? Therefor they're Stormcloaks, politically also.
The Imperial Defenses on Valenwood could of been there for hundreds of years, ever since Valenwood was lost.
Poor leadership because the Empire was maintaining order in the provinces? So you suggest the Empire should of kept their entire army on the Aldmeri Dominion's border for... 160+ years?
Except that the Thalmor had been preparing for well over a hundred years. So the fact the Blades didn't notice anything going on, how was the Empire supposed to?
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
It's not too bad. I enjoyed the stealth aspect of the game, taking over compounds completely undetected. Using my machete, throwing pebbles to distract.
Anyway back to the debate. Ulfric only cares about himself, he's power hungry and merely wants the throne.
"With the Stormcloaks at his back, Ulfric's poised to rid Skyrim of the Empire's forces and invalidate our involvement with the White-Gold Concordat. Between you and I, I think his motivations are a bit more self-serving. He uses this holy war as leverage in order to pursue the throne. If he were to be crowned High King, I'm not so certain it would be the golden age his followers expect."
"I'm no man's fool. I know Ulfric Stormcloak's selfish and power-hungry, but he's the devil I know. Does that put it plain enough for you?"
Those two dialogues are quite something.
J
Jeremius
Guest
Anyway back to the debate. Ulfric only cares about himself, he's power hungry and merely wants the throne.
"With the Stormcloaks at his back, Ulfric's poised to rid Skyrim of the Empire's forces and invalidate our involvement with the White-Gold Concordat. Between you and I, I think his motivations are a bit more self-serving. He uses this holy war as leverage in order to pursue the throne. If he were to be crowned High King, I'm not so certain it would be the golden age his followers expect."
"I'm no man's fool. I know Ulfric Stormcloak's selfish and power-hungry, but he's the devil I know. Does that put it plain enough for you?"
Those two dialogues are quite something.
Who said these? Also, all hail the emperor.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
That is the beauty of it. Two Stormcloak Jarls said them, the first being Laila Law-Giver and the second is of Dengeir of Stuhn.
