Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Jeremius]

It doesn't work like that.

There is more to warfare than being a strategical genius. There is also the numbers game, and without the numbers that Mede had, could he have pulled off the strategy he did?

I'm talking about in-game racial preferences. There have been great Imperial Battlemages, even great Nord Battlemages. There are Altmer/Dunmer Legates in Skyrim.

There is more to the Legion than. Orcs/Nords smash. Dunmer assassinate. Redguards infantry. Bretons cast spells. Imperials command.

Yet they are all naturals at those areas specific to them. Nord and Orcs are strong/resistant fighters, so fit best when holding a fort or location of strategic importance. dunmer make great assassins, so using one to assassinate a key target is almost too easy. Bretons are natural spellcaster so they fit best as "shadow legions."

understand?

 

[Dradin]

The races each have an affinity, but it does not lock something into that race. A Nord can practice magic all his life, and he will be much better than a Breton who mastered Calvary. Once race isn't forced to be a certain class, in practice that would be racist. To generalize such a thing is indeed racist.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Yet they are all naturals at those areas specific to them. Nord and Orcs are strong/resistant fighters, so fit best when holding a fort or location of strategic importance. dunmer make great assassins, so using one to assassinate a key target is almost too easy. Bretons are natural spellcaster so they fit best as "shadow legions."

understand?

But it doesn't work like that.

Not every race is skilled in magic, stealth or fighting. Lore wise, everyone is basically the same until they've trained. Sure some races have a natural ability, in regards to resistances or natural magical reserves. But without the person training in those, they can't just be them.

It is why you see Nord Generals, why you see Altmer soldiers who aren't using magic. You see Dunmer heavy armored soldiers.

The Legion doesn't go "You, here" cause your race is this. Not all Bretons are magical, not all Dunmer are assassins.

 

[Jeremius]

Yet they are all naturals at those areas specific to them. Nord and Orcs are strong/resistant fighters, so fit best when holding a fort or location of strategic importance. dunmer make great assassins, so using one to assassinate a key target is almost too easy. Bretons are natural spellcaster so they fit best as "shadow legions."

understand?

But it doesn't work like that.

Not every race is skilled in magic, stealth or fighting. Lore wise, everyone is basically the same until they've trained. Sure some races have a natural ability, in regards to resistances or natural magical reserves. But without the person training in those, they can't just be them.

It is why you see Nord Generals, why you see Altmer soldiers who aren't using magic. You see Dunmer heavy armored soldiers.

The Legion doesn't go "You, here" cause your race is this. Not all Bretons are magical, not all Dunmer are assassins.

I understand, but strategy is all about efficiency, and you use all assets to pull each and every strategy off. This is where the numbers come in. Each race brings something to the table, and each race is needed, but not enough numbers, the racial affinities mean nothing. Not enough warriors? you battlemages mean squat. Not enough assassins to take out key targets? That means trouble for your men. Not enough soldiers for your currently planned strategy? better rethink it, because it probably won't end well for you.

Why was Jonna's army made up of mostly Nords?

 

[Dradin]

Yet they are all naturals at those areas specific to them. Nord and Orcs are strong/resistant fighters, so fit best when holding a fort or location of strategic importance. dunmer make great assassins, so using one to assassinate a key target is almost too easy. Bretons are natural spellcaster so they fit best as "shadow legions."

understand?

But it doesn't work like that.

Not every race is skilled in magic, stealth or fighting. Lore wise, everyone is basically the same until they've trained. Sure some races have a natural ability, in regards to resistances or natural magical reserves. But without the person training in those, they can't just be them.

It is why you see Nord Generals, why you see Altmer soldiers who aren't using magic. You see Dunmer heavy armored soldiers.

The Legion doesn't go "You, here" cause your race is this. Not all Bretons are magical, not all Dunmer are assassins.

I understand, but strategy is all about efficiency, and you use all assets to pull each and every strategy off. This is where the numbers come in. Each race brings something to the table, and each race is needed, but not enough numbers, the racial affinities mean nothing. Not enough warriors? you battlemages mean squat. Not enough assassins to take out key targets? That means trouble for your men. Not enough soldiers for your currently planned strategy? better rethink it, because it probably won't end well for you.

What he is saying is you classified each race as a certain position. You said all Bretons are mages, All Dunmer are assassins, etc.

That is not the case.

 

[Jeremius]

What he is saying is you classified each race as a certain position. You said all Bretons are mages, All Dunmer are assassins, etc.

That is not the case.

I did not say all. Bretons make great mages, so breton mages are best to handle Altmer mages. Orcs and Nords are great warriors, so Orc and Nord warriors are perfect for conquering and defending positions of importance.

I never said specific races had to be only one position. You have a Nord assassin and a Dunmer assassin. both are excellent choices for a problem you need dealt with. Who is more effective? The Nord who is more natural at the warrior, or the Dunmer who is more natural at the job?

 

[Dradin]

What he is saying is you classified each race as a certain position. You said all Bretons are mages, All Dunmer are assassins, etc.

That is not the case.

I did not say all. Bretons make great mages, so breton mages are best to handle Altmer mages. Orcs and Nords are great warriors, so Orc and Nord warriors are perfect for conquering and defending positions of importance.

I never said specific races had to be only one position.

But you said in a generalization that the Orcs and Nords are fighters, Bretons are mages and Dunmer assassins. That is not always to case. You are classifying it based on stereotypes of a race and not the individuals. There are more counters you can see in Skyrim to what you said then complements.

 

[Jeremius]

But you said in a generalization that the Orcs and Nords are fighters, Bretons are mages and Dunmer assassins. That is not always to case. You are classifying it based on stereotypes of a race and not the individuals. There are more counters you can see in Skyrim to what you said then complements.

Nord and Orc legion soldiers are much easier to train than Altmer or Breton ones, because they are natural fighters, and can pick it up much quicker. Of course there will be outliers. That does not mean they are not better soldiers than others.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Why was Jonna's army made up of mostly Nords?

Because they were coming from Skyrim? Which is filled with mostly Nords.

I did not say all. Bretons make great mages, so breton mages are best to handle Altmer mages. Orcs and Nords are great warriors, so Orc and Nord warriors are perfect for conquering and defending positions of importance.

Espionage has also proven to be one of their strong suits; Breton double agents, assassins, and spies have turned the tide of wars throughout recorded history. - Lore: Breton

I never said specific races had to be only one position. You have a Nord assassin and a Dunmer assassin. both are excellent choices for a problem you need dealt with. Who is more effective? The Nord who is more natural at the warrior, or the Dunmer who is more natural at the job?

You would use, who is the most skilled. If the Nord had the most experience, and has been doing it for years. I'd select the Nord.

Experience and training are what make people effective. Not race.

Nord and Orc legion soldiers are much easier to train than Altmer or Breton ones, because they are natural fighters, and can pick it up much quicker. Of course there will be outliers. That does not mean they are not better soldiers than others.

Where does it say Nords and Orcs are easier to train? Not all Nords are warriors, or are even fit to be warriors. It depends on their lifestyle, how they were raised. Many Orcs join the Legion not as warriors, but as smiths to master their craft.

A Breton or Altmer laborer would be easier to train than a Nord Noble, used to fine dining and easy living.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Race means nothing in terms of selection for what role.

Khajiit are considered thieves. So by your reasoning, they'd be spies to steal enemy documents. But Khajiit warriors are re known for their fighting ability, that even Legionnaires have said the Legion itself could learn from their styles.

Dunmer lore wise, aren't considered best super assassins.

Their combination of powerful intellects with strong and agile physiques produce superior warriors and sorcerers. - Lore: Dunmer

Imperials lore wise, aren't considered best commanders out of race.

Though physically less imposing than the other races, the Imperials have proved to be shrewd diplomats and traders, and these traits, along with their remarkable skill and training as light infantry - Lore: Imperial

Redguards while considered the best warriors, many aren't suited for rank and file soldiers.

Redguards of Hammerfell seem born to battle, though their pride and fierce independence of spirit makes them more suitable as scouts or skirmishers, or as free-ranging heroes and adventurers, than as rank-and-file soldiers. - Lore: Redguard

Nords, while you say they're best suited for holding positions in the Legion. Many are actually found in coastal areas and are sailors.

Nords are also natural seamen, and have benefited from nautical trade since their first migrations from Atmora. They captain and crew many merchant fleets, and may be found all along the coasts of Tamriel. - Lore: Nord

In lore, and in all the TES games. You come across different races, doing all different things. It shows us that everyone, regardless of race can do everything the same as anyone else.

You see Dunmer Sailors, Nord Mages, Breton Soldiers, Imperial Scouts, Redguard smiths, Khajiit warriors, Orc bookshop owners etc.

 

[AS88]

Race means nothing in terms of selection for what role.

Khajiit are considered thieves. So by your reasoning, they'd be spies to steal enemy documents. But Khajiit warriors are re known for their fighting ability, that even Legionnaires have said the Legion itself could learn from their styles.

Dunmer lore wise, aren't considered best super assassins.

Their combination of powerful intellects with strong and agile physiques produce superior warriors and sorcerers. - Lore: Dunmer

Imperials lore wise, aren't considered best commanders out of race.

Though physically less imposing than the other races, the Imperials have proved to be shrewd diplomats and traders, and these traits, along with their remarkable skill and training as light infantry - Lore: Imperial

Redguards while considered the best warriors, many aren't suited for rank and file soldiers.

Redguards of Hammerfell seem born to battle, though their pride and fierce independence of spirit makes them more suitable as scouts or skirmishers, or as free-ranging heroes and adventurers, than as rank-and-file soldiers. - Lore: Redguard

Nords, while you say they're best suited for holding positions in the Legion. Many are actually found in coastal areas and are sailors.

Nords are also natural seamen, and have benefited from nautical trade since their first migrations from Atmora. They captain and crew many merchant fleets, and may be found all along the coasts of Tamriel. - Lore: Nord

In lore, and in all the TES games. You come across different races, doing all different things. It shows us that everyone, regardless of race can do everything the same as anyone else.

You see Dunmer Sailors, Nord Mages, Breton Soldiers, Imperial Scouts, Redguard smiths, Khajiit warriors, Orc bookshop owners etc.

Arse, I was just about to do this.

(Would rep but need to share with others first)

 

[DrunkenMage]

Arse, I was just about to do this.

(Would rep but need to share with others first)

Bullplops, you wish you were about to do it.

 

[NENALATA]

Errmmm

Doesn't it say it was the Nord Shield Wall that came down from Skyrim which won the Battle of Red Ring?

Furthermore, in general, Orcs and Nords are 'fighters'. Look at their racial make-up in the game. lol According to what I'm reading on here, everyone is the same and this is very wrong.

True, like all Orcs aren't fighters, there's Medicine Women, there's the ahhh well most of them are Smiths actually... but in general most of them are Warriors, that's why there were transformed into Orcs because Orcs revere Malacath. Malacath WAS a Warrior God. Therefore, City Orcs are looked down on because they don't honor the code of Malacath, (They're creator) to the extent that Orcs in their cities do. This doesn't mean an Imperial couldn't honor Malacath, however an Imperial is not an Orc. Just like my cousin thinks he's Jewish which he isn't, never really was and it took the local Synagogue to explain this to him when he wanted his son to have a ahh Barmitsa? He's fine now being just European in decent, as am I.

As for the other Elves, Thalmor and Bretons are not just good Mages but they're the best in Tamriel because Magic is in their blood. The game itself Oblivion & Skyrim at least confirms this. Although I'm sure there are other good Mages, but not like the Altmer or the Ayleids who practically wrote the book on Magic. Of course, Frathen Drathon was pretty good in Oblivion but he was privileged and had to work harder at it I'm sure.

Their racial profiles were generated by the game makers themselves.

I mean, anyone can do anything. I had a Redguard Mage one time. He wasn't bad. But he was Tier 1 next to my Altmer Mage who was Tier 3 and able to cast strong spells from the start of the game. Furthermore, Bretons Race was Engineered to be the ultimate Mage Warrior ie... Battlemage. They were Engineered by the Altmer who lived in Highrock ie Direeni.

So you could have an Imperial who wants to be a Mage and there's nothing wrong with that, however an Altmer or Breton mage might have more success due to their RACIAL affinity towards Magic in general. This does not make all Altmer Mages or Bretons Mages but it is a strength of their race over other races and is not something that should be ignored.

Imperials and Bretons are not the same just because they're both into Magic. You could enchant some armor and FORCE them to look them same, however under a microscope you have two completely different critters.


As for Titus Mede II, he's in the past. He represents a past of the Empire surrendering to the Aldmeri. He's a nice guy however that is how he shall always be perceived as.

I try not to hold onto the past if it prevents me from having a better future.

And that's what the Empire and the Imperials on here need to do. Let that man go, admit the mistake that was made by the WGC and show that it will not be repeated.

Otherwise, things won't change and the Empire will continue to just crumble into obscurity.

How many more Provinces will the Empire have to lose to understand this?

 

[DrunkenMage]

Errmmm

Doesn't it say it was the Nord Shield Wall that came down from Skyrim which won the Battle of Red Ring?

No? Perhaps you could show us where.

Furthermore, in general, Orcs and Nords are 'fighters'. Look at their racial make-up in the game. lol According to what I'm reading on here, everyone is the same and this is very wrong.

No one is the 'same' but people aren't one thing due to their race. What is being said, if you are indeed reading it. Is that races aren't limited to one set task. In general in-game yes, they're fighters suited for one general things. Lore wise, Nords have been extremely powerful in other aspects. Such as legendary Archmages, to being an Imperial Battlemage to an Empress.

There was a Nord enchanter who far surpassed elves.

Dunmer aren't all assassins. There was a 4000 year old Dunmer Master Wizard. He didn't look to be an assassin to me. The point of what I was saying, is that all races can do everything. Just because you're born a Nord, doesn't make you the best fighter there is. Take a good look at lore and in-game NPCs, you come across Nords who couldn't fight to save their lives. Training and experience make someone skilled in something, not birth.

True, like all Orcs aren't fighters, there's Medicine Women, there's the ahhh well most of them are Smiths actually... but in general most of them are Warriors, that's why there were transformed into Orcs because Orcs revere Malacath. Malacath WAS a Warrior God. Therefore, City Orcs are looked down on because they don't honor the code of Malacath, (They're creator) to the extent that Orcs in their cities do. This doesn't mean an Imperial couldn't honor Malacath, however an Imperial is not an Orc.

There have been Orc Mages, there is one in Winterhold who's been around since the Second Era. Not every Orc is a full warrior.

As for the other Elves, Thalmor and Bretons are not just good Mages but they're the best in Tamriel because Magic is in their blood.

But lore wise, not in-game wise. You have to learn how to tap into your magicka to cast spells, then you need training and spend years and years mastering it. You're not the top wizard on the block at the age of five and only know how to make a spark.

The game itself Oblivion & Skyrim at least confirms this. Although I'm sure there are other good Mages, but not like the Altmer or the Ayleids who practically wrote the book on Magic. Of course, Frathen Drathon was pretty good in Oblivion but he was privileged and had to work harder at it I'm sure.

Actually there was a Nord who bested all elves in the magical art of enchanting. Now he, wrote the book on enchanting. He took their book, threw it out the window.

Not all Altmer are Mages. Not all Altmer can be Mages, it takes training and constant practice.

Their racial profiles were generated by the game makers themselves.

So was the lore.

I mean, anyone can do anything. I had a Redguard Mage one time. He wasn't bad. But he was Tier 1 next to my Altmer Mage who was Tier 3 and able to cast strong spells from the start of the game.

If you know how to play the game, any character can be just as powerful.

Furthermore, Bretons Race was Engineered to be the ultimate Mage Warrior ie... Battlemage. They were Engineered by the Altmer who lived in Highrock ie Direeni.

In-game they're great Battlemages. Lore wise, not many of them. Imperials Eastern Cyrodiil were some of the first Battlemages, which is how the Legions were formed. From Colovian soldiers to the Battlemages of the Nibenese.

You can't decide battles based on race. Which is what I was saying. If you have an Altmer soldier, who's never studied magic, has no idea on how to safely cast a spell without killing himself and his fellow soldiers around him. Are you going to task him with fighting with magic, cause he's an Altmer?

So you could have an Imperial who wants to be a Mage and there's nothing wrong with that, however an Altmer or Breton mage might have more success due to their RACIAL affinity towards Magic in general. This does not make all Altmer Mages or Bretons Mages but it is a strength of their race over other races and is not something that should be ignored.

No one is ignoring natural racial births. But lore wise, not every Breton can cast a spell. You don't plan something cause of race, "Bretons Battlemage duty" "Dunmer, you go assassinate this person" that is rather stupid. One can't ignore experience and skill. I'd take a Nord Mage who's practiced for decades, over an Altmer who's studied Magic for a day.

Imperials and Bretons are not the same just because they're both into Magic. You could enchant some armor and FORCE them to look them same, however under a microscope you have two completely different critters.

No one is saying every race is the same in that aspect. I'm saying every race is the same in that they can do different things. Not every Breton is a Master Wizard, not every Imperial is a General and not every Nord is a two handed, super ownage berserker.

Lifestyle and training. To be honest, I can't even believe this had needed to be even discussed.

"He's assassin cause he's Dunmer" that is like saying "He's math genius, cause he's Asian."

 

[Anouck]

Some builds are more suitable for some races; like a High Elf is more suitable for a Mage than a Berserker. However, that doesn't mean the race 'High Elf' will limit you in your pursuit to become a Berserker. It just means some racial abilities can give you an advantage when you pick a certain path.

To me, these abilities are comparable to people in our everyday society. You have kids who study easily and kids who have a hard time studying. However, the underachiever who could easily get better grades but doesn't do plops, won't get more successful in life than the other kid who might be less talented but who just works very hard. It is not just talent - it is what you do with it.

Certain things you are born with. Call it talent, call it racial ability. But that doesn't mean it limits or labels you. There are great Bosmer blacksmiths and Argonian hunters.

Saying: 'He is a Dunmer, therefor a great assassin'. Is like saying: 'He is Asian, therefor good at maths'. The Empire can't just sort people based upon their race. Not only because less people would join (it is always better to have a Dunmer willing to become a warrior for the legion than no candidate applying at all) but also because not everyone decided to develop their racial skills to the fullest. That Dunmer maybe didn't use his advantage on assassin - related skills, so he would be a poor assassin. And a Nord who did train his sneaking skills, might be much better.

It's really not that complicated.

 

[NENALATA]

NENALATA said: ↑

Errmmm​

​

Doesn't it say it was the Nord Shield Wall that came down from Skyrim which won the Battle of Red Ring?​

No? Perhaps you could show us where.

"While the Eighth Legion fought a desperate (and doomed) rearguard action on the walls of the city, Titus II broke out of the city to the north with his main army, smashing through the surrounding the Aldmeri [sic] forces and linking up with reinforcements marching south from Skyrim under General Jonna."​

​

"The second army, largely of Nord legions under General Jonna, took up position near Cheydinhal"​

​

"An attempt by the Aldmeri to break out of the city to the south was blocked by the unbreakable shieldwall of General Jonna's battered legions."​

​

​

General Jonna STOPPED the Aldmeri Army in IC from being reinforced from the South, STOPPED the Aldmeri in the city from retreating/regrouping which enabled the Emperor to win the city.​

​

​

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Great_War​

NENALATA said: ↑

Furthermore, in general, Orcs and Nords are 'fighters'. Look at their racial make-up in the game. lol According to what I'm reading on here, everyone is the same and this is very wrong.​

No one is the 'same' but people aren't one thing due to their race. What is being said, if you are indeed reading it. Is that races aren't limited to one set task. In general in-game yes, they're fighters suited for one general things. Lore wise, Nords have been extremely powerful in other aspects. Such as legendary Archmages, to being an Imperial Battlemage to an Empress.

There was a Nord enchanter who far surpassed elves.

Dunmer aren't all assassins. There was a 4000 year old Dunmer Master Wizard. He didn't look to be an assassin to me. The point of what I was saying, is that all races can do everything. Just because you're born a Nord, doesn't make you the best fighter there is. Take a good look at lore and in-game NPCs, you come across Nords who couldn't fight to save their lives. Training and experience make someone skilled in something, not birth.

Well, yeah however it's like everywhere I go, I keep hearing this stuff over and over again how there are no differences between folks and we're all the same... blah blah blah. Which isn't true. I don't mean like being 'better' than someone, I'm talking about common sense. Yes, a Khajit could be a really powerful Warrior however in that book which talks about their victory against the Wood Elves, the Khajit told their Nords advisors to go home because what worked for the Nords (ie Heavy Armor and Weapons) was totally inappropriate for use by the Khajit. Because they were cats, they were not Nords.

NENALATA said: ↑

True, like all Orcs aren't fighters, there's Medicine Women, there's the ahhh well most of them are Smiths actually... but in general most of them are Warriors, that's why there were transformed into Orcs because Orcs revere Malacath. Malacath WAS a Warrior God. Therefore, City Orcs are looked down on because they don't honor the code of Malacath, (They're creator) to the extent that Orcs in their cities do. This doesn't mean an Imperial couldn't honor Malacath, however an Imperial is not an Orc.​

There have been Orc Mages, there is one in Winterhold who's been around since the Second Era. Not every Orc is a full warrior.

Right. But what is a "Full Warrior"? They're God is a Warrior, majority of them revere him so all those True Orcs who follow Malacath are Warriors to some degree. You cannot follow Malacath and not at least understand what it means to be a warrior, because he is. Although his followers are technically Outcasts but he is a Warrior Demi-God. And his Code, which again, is a cultural thing but his Code is very reminiscent of militaristic standards. Like a Warrior's Code.

NENALATA said: ↑

As for the other Elves, Thalmor and Bretons are not just good Mages but they're the best in Tamriel because Magic is in their blood.​

But lore wise, not in-game wise. You have to learn how to tap into your magicka to cast spells, then you need training and spend years and years mastering it. You're not the top wizard on the block at the age of five and only know how to make a spark.

The game is based on lore. You can't separate them because I'm drawing generalizations ~ Not talking stats which very per game. No where in here did I imply that an adolescent person was auto super skilled and all powerful. (If you are indeed reading this) Basically what I am saying is that when you have races Descended from Aedra or (basically Gods by any other name), their genetic makeup brings the magic to them, it's in their blood. See? Having Magic ability and being skilled is completely separate things. However, I'm of errmmm Nordic/Germanic descent. So I can withstand the cold. I LOVE Cold Weather baby yeaahhh!!! See what I mean? It's the same with the Elves or whoever. Whether they're smart and choose to benefit from their gifts is on them. However, they have them regardless. For example, I have an African friend of mine... who DOES NOT like the cold. At all. He's miserable. He might could FORCE himself to tolerate it, however he'll most likely never be accustomed to it like me. He is tall and can play basketball well. I am not as tall and though I could become good at ~ There are limits to the game that I will NEVER be able to break because I do not have his height. Anyone whose played sports knows exactly what I'm talking about.

NENALATA said: ↑

The game itself Oblivion & Skyrim at least confirms this. Although I'm sure there are other good Mages, but not like the Altmer or the Ayleids who practically wrote the book on Magic. Of course, Frathen Drathon was pretty good in Oblivion but he was privileged and had to work harder at it I'm sure.​

Actually there was a Nord who bested all elves in the magical art of enchanting. Now he, wrote the book on enchanting. He took their book, threw it out the window.

Not all Altmer are Mages. Not all Altmer can be Mages, it takes training and constant practice.

Yes because it takes work on the part of the individual to train. However, every Altmer has GREATER potential to excel at Magic because of their heritage. And you know, you don't even have to Master it. You could be like a... Nightblade or Spellsword. And once that ability is unlocked, just like sports, on avg the Altmer can hold a Ward for significantly longer amount of time than say an Imperial on the same skill lvl.

NENALATA said: ↑

Their racial profiles were generated by the game makers themselves.​

So was the lore.

Yep

NENALATA said: ↑

I mean, anyone can do anything. I had a Redguard Mage one time. He wasn't bad. But he was Tier 1 next to my Altmer Mage who was Tier 3 and able to cast strong spells from the start of the game.​

If you know how to play the game, any character can be just as powerful.

Not necessarily and I'm going to show you why. Alright. So... let's take a Breton. Any Breton Mage. Now, the Breton Mage has the unique ability to Absorb Magicka Dmg for 60secs. The Atronach sign provides 50% Mag Res. This makes the BRETON the ONLY race in Skyrim that has the potential to be immune to Magicka for a short time, but that does not matter because this is a feat that no other race can possibly reach. Unless you can enchant absorb magicka which I don't think is even possible. Magic Res yes, but that's diff and it's also capped at 85%.

However this example is platform specific and is crude in that respect. Probably the best example is the Argonian.

Argonians in Oblivion and Skyrim can breather underwater. This is because of their unique physiology. Now, you might be able to wear something that grants water breathing but that is an item. No other race can breathe Underwater by enhancing their physiology.

NENALATA said: ↑

Furthermore, Bretons Race was Engineered to be the ultimate Mage Warrior ie... Battlemage. They were Engineered by the Altmer who lived in Highrock ie Direeni.​

In-game they're great Battlemages. Lore wise, not many of them. Imperials Eastern Cyrodiil were some of the first Battlemages, which is how the Legions were formed. From Colovian soldiers to the Battlemages of the Nibenese.

You can't decide battles based on race. Which is what I was saying. If you have an Altmer soldier, who's never studied magic, has no idea on how to safely cast a spell without killing himself and his fellow soldiers around him. Are you going to task him with fighting with magic, cause he's an Altmer?

No you can't decide for people what their occupation in life will be. Well, unless you believe in Communism... Hahaha... Anyways.

They don't all have to be skilled at Magic to have the potential. Neither of us can argue for what choices people make. Here's another example:

Probably the best of all IMHO...

​

Passionate, eccentric, poetic, flamboyant, intelligent, willful, and excellent cooks, the Bretons feel an inborn, instinctive bond with the mercurial forces of magic and the supernatural world. Many great sorcerers have come out of their home province of High Rock, and in addition to their quick and perceptive grasp of spellcraft, enchantment, and alchemy, even the humblest and least prominent Breton can boast a high resistance to destructive and dominating magical attacks they encounter.​

​

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Breton​

You guys are welcome to try to argue about that coming from a Wiki but doesn't matter because the fact the Bretons have PASSIVE MAGIC RESISTANCE is based on lore and is an quality that does NOT require Skill. virtually all of them have it by birth. Hahaha Even 5 yr olds have the Magic Resistance. It's in their blood, it's unique to them. Imperial 5 yr old don't have this resistance. It's not something they can learn until they're older.

NENALATA said: ↑

So you could have an Imperial who wants to be a Mage and there's nothing wrong with that, however an Altmer or Breton mage might have more success due to their RACIAL affinity towards Magic in general. This does not make all Altmer Mages or Bretons Mages but it is a strength of their race over other races and is not something that should be ignored.​

No one is ignoring natural racial births. But lore wise, not every Breton can cast a spell. You don't plan something cause of race, "Bretons Battlemage duty" "Dunmer, you go assassinate this person" that is rather stupid. One can't ignore experience and skill. I'd take a Nord Mage who's practiced for decades, over an Altmer who's studied Magic for a day.

Ok​

NENALATA said: ↑​

Imperials and Bretons are not the same just because they're both into Magic. You could enchant some armor and FORCE them to look them same, however under a microscope you have two completely different critters.​

No one is saying every race is the same in that aspect. I'm saying every race is the same in that they can do different things. Not every Breton is a Master Wizard, not every Imperial is a General and not every Nord is a two handed, super ownage berserker.​

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Lifestyle and training. To be honest, I can't even believe this had needed to be even discussed.​

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"He's assassin cause he's Dunmer" that is like saying "He's math genius, cause he's Asian."​

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This is speculation however ~ When I was in the military, I had this weird little Chinese dude who was in my outfit. Ok, this guy would tell us stories about how SERIOUSLY Asian parents take Math. And thus, their children, thus it's a part of the CULTURE. Understand? Race can mean anything but when you have a culture of excellence in math, then you can safely reach a conclusion that a very large percentage of that culture group will be good at math.​

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This is also why the Ayleids and Altmer are so good at magic, it's part of their culture. Part of their history and one main reason why they gave the Empire such a fit during the Great War.​

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Which is why the Nord Stormcloaks are so angry. They would rather save their culture than save a loose cooperation with the Empire. And as a Thalmor, I don't necessarily blame them for this because if you CANNOT or REFUSE to accept my tradition(s) and culture then how can we have a fruitful cooperation? Because I have to honor your culture but you for some reason can dishonor mine and everything is just fine... esp when you need me much more than I need you.​

 

[NENALATA]

Some builds are more suitable for some races; like a High Elf is more suitable for a Mage than a Berserker. However, that doesn't mean the race 'High Elf' will limit you in your pursuit to become a Berserker. It just means some racial abilities can give you an advantage when you pick a certain path.

To me, these abilities are comparable to people in our everyday society. You have kids who study easily and kids who have a hard time studying. However, the underachiever who could easily get better grades but doesn't do pl***, won't get more successful in life than the other kid who might be less talented but who just works very hard. It is not just talent - it is what you do with it.

Certain things you are born with. Call it talent, call it racial ability. But that doesn't mean it limits or labels you. There are great Bosmer blacksmiths and Argonian hunters.

Saying: 'He is a Dunmer, therefor a great assassin'. Is like saying: 'He is Asian, therefor good at maths'. The Empire can't just sort people based upon their race. Not only because less people would join (it is always better to have a Dunmer willing to become a warrior for the legion than no candidate applying at all) but also because not everyone decided to develop their racial skills to the fullest. That Dunmer maybe didn't use his advantage on assassin - related skills, so he would be a poor assassin. And a Nord who did train his sneaking skills, might be much better.

It's really not that complicated.

"It's really not that complicated" - So as a gamer or let's say as an NPC in the game, I should not pay attention to the Racial differences between races. That doesn't matter. I'm making things too complicated.

Let's say combat. If I'm a Breton and I'm being threatened by Altmer Thalmor... before the Battle begins I'm trying to decide whether to run or fight, I know that I have a good chance of winning because I have good Mag Res and chances are good that they know how to use Magic to some extent, but I know that I can survive it. See what I mean?

Even Sun Tzu (whom I've quoted even before coming here) would agree that in Combat you need to know who you are and you need to know who your enemy is. Because all war is deception.

 

[Crooksin]

Yup, this dude talkin to himself

 

[NENALATA]

Yup, this dude talkin to himself

I try to be personable to people when I'm explaining things.

A negative opinion towards me does not harm my argument.

 

[Jeremius]

Yup, this dude talkin to himself

NENALATA does that, remove the person s/he quoted for some reason.

Still, Imperials have the cooler armor, so they will win because the Stormcloaks look like garbage.