J
Jeremius
Guest
Uh, aren't those soldiers all on the Border with the Dominion territories to prepare for the Great War?
Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?
- Thread starter EvilCrazyCows
- Start date
Uh, aren't those soldiers all on the Border with the Dominion territories to prepare for the Great War?
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
You'd think so, except it is quite strange. They can't spare any soldiers to give Tullius, but are more than willing to spare entire Imperial patrols to meet Maven's Mead shipments from Skyrim and personally escorting it to the destination. Skyrim's border being quite far from the Dominion's border.
GrumpyBadger
Article Writer
wow...
709 pages... I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who had a hard time choosing between the two. Both have pros and cons. Hence why I made two "Dovahkiins"
basically an "alt-universe" type dealio. Both are Nord, both are Lawful-Good, both are Paladins. Just one fights for the Stormcloaks, the other Imperials.
My Imperial was first. And that's where my question comes in. He became Thane of Whiterun, became friends with Farengar. And Whiterun, became his home. For that character - roleplay wise - he didn't choose Stormcloak or Imperial, he chose Whiterun.
In real life, I looked up the questlines with the battle of Whiterun, saw Jarl Balgruuf chose Imperial, no matter what (good on Bethesda btw) and then, knowing that, couldn't fight for the Stormcloaks! Initially, I made this character, Broc, as a Stormcloak - blue facepaint and everything, based of the movie Braveheart, and my historical reenactment of Medieval Scotland. His name is even Broc de Glasgu, a lowland Scot name. Yet, I knew the character - he chose to loyally follow Jarl Balgruuf. Did anyone else choose because of something like this?
also, according to the lore, it's the Thalmore that caused the civil war in Skyrim, using Ulfric's hatred of them against himself and his province. Quite tactically genius. Hence, why no matter what side, I'm not a fan of the Aldmeri Dominion in this game.
709 pages... I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who had a hard time choosing between the two. Both have pros and cons. Hence why I made two "Dovahkiins"
basically an "alt-universe" type dealio. Both are Nord, both are Lawful-Good, both are Paladins. Just one fights for the Stormcloaks, the other Imperials.My Imperial was first. And that's where my question comes in. He became Thane of Whiterun, became friends with Farengar. And Whiterun, became his home. For that character - roleplay wise - he didn't choose Stormcloak or Imperial, he chose Whiterun.
In real life, I looked up the questlines with the battle of Whiterun, saw Jarl Balgruuf chose Imperial, no matter what (good on Bethesda btw) and then, knowing that, couldn't fight for the Stormcloaks! Initially, I made this character, Broc, as a Stormcloak - blue facepaint and everything, based of the movie Braveheart, and my historical reenactment of Medieval Scotland. His name is even Broc de Glasgu, a lowland Scot name. Yet, I knew the character - he chose to loyally follow Jarl Balgruuf. Did anyone else choose because of something like this?
also, according to the lore, it's the Thalmore that caused the civil war in Skyrim, using Ulfric's hatred of them against himself and his province. Quite tactically genius. Hence, why no matter what side, I'm not a fan of the Aldmeri Dominion in this game.
NENALATA
Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
The good thing about the Stormcloaks is they bring out the worst in the Nords. Yes, this is a good thing. Because there are foreign soldiers, Elves no less, holding a large amount of power in Skyrim, Nord land, threatening the Nords culture and way of life. Sometimes in order to defeat Evil it take another kind of Evil, Ulfric and the Stormcloaks.
However, there is a problem with this. IF this were true then Ulfric would not have cooperated with the Thalmor. As GrumpyBadger said, the Thalmor manipulated Ulfric's hatred into killing their enemies but he also willingly cooperated with the Thalmor prior to and up to Markarth. There's also the problem of the last respected High King (Istlad) wanting to maintain cooperation with the Empire.
If I was an Imperial again, (which maybe I is and am in denial ) I would write this prescription for the Empire:
1) All Occupied Imperial Forts must cleansed, respectfully pillaged and returned to the Empire proper. (Like the Fort Greymoor? in Whiterun)
2) Stormcloaks/Thalmor must be engaged and eliminated anywhere they might be found. (Search and Destroy (SoD) in between carrying out other goals)
3) Northwatch Keep must be eliminated, prisoners released.
4) Empire must win the Civil War, Ulfric & Galmar's head should be sent back to Cyrodil.
5) SoD remaining Stormcloak camps.
6) Eliminate the Emperor and EVERYONE of his Officers including all PO Soldiers. (This discredits everything they've done and puts the Blades into position to be relevant again)
7) The Rep of Elder Council who makes #6 possible should be allowed to return home safely, minus his valuables, jewels cash, credit card, anything like that.
8) Deal with the Dragons as best as possible.
9) Stop Poteyma the Wolf Queen. (I saved her for last because this might be the hardest thing to do of all)
Personally, I think killing Gen Tullius and Leg Rikke is a huge mistake. They're worth far more alive than Ulfric and Galmar. They do seem to care and want to make things right again, not radically change the country out of emotion(s). Not to mention my great fondness for the Leadership and positive personality displayed by every Imperial Jarl.
A true leader is not guided by emotion and does not make decisions out of emotional pain.
However, there is a problem with this. IF this were true then Ulfric would not have cooperated with the Thalmor. As GrumpyBadger said, the Thalmor manipulated Ulfric's hatred into killing their enemies but he also willingly cooperated with the Thalmor prior to and up to Markarth. There's also the problem of the last respected High King (Istlad) wanting to maintain cooperation with the Empire.
If I was an Imperial again, (which maybe I is and am in denial
) I would write this prescription for the Empire:1) All Occupied Imperial Forts must cleansed, respectfully pillaged and returned to the Empire proper. (Like the Fort Greymoor? in Whiterun)
2) Stormcloaks/Thalmor must be engaged and eliminated anywhere they might be found. (Search and Destroy (SoD) in between carrying out other goals)
3) Northwatch Keep must be eliminated, prisoners released.
4) Empire must win the Civil War, Ulfric & Galmar's head should be sent back to Cyrodil.
5) SoD remaining Stormcloak camps.
6) Eliminate the Emperor and EVERYONE of his Officers including all PO Soldiers. (This discredits everything they've done and puts the Blades into position to be relevant again)
7) The Rep of Elder Council who makes #6 possible should be allowed to return home safely, minus his valuables, jewels cash, credit card, anything like that.
8) Deal with the Dragons as best as possible.
9) Stop Poteyma the Wolf Queen. (I saved her for last because this might be the hardest thing to do of all)
Personally, I think killing Gen Tullius and Leg Rikke is a huge mistake. They're worth far more alive than Ulfric and Galmar. They do seem to care and want to make things right again, not radically change the country out of emotion(s). Not to mention my great fondness for the Leadership and positive personality displayed by every Imperial Jarl.
A true leader is not guided by emotion and does not make decisions out of emotional pain.
GrumpyBadger
Article Writer
very well said Nenalata. Pisses me off that the camps have "unkillables" in them... just as much as the Thieves Guild for my paladins
basically for my paladin, Broc, he took care of the Dragons issue first - felt higher priority
then helped defend Whiterun
after defending Whiterun, he accepted "I'm in it now" and went full-bore as a commander and took out the rest of the Stormcloaks.
then while in Solitude, learned about Poteyma, and took her out next
yeah, paladin with a greatsword and light armor/negated heavy armor - Champion of Kyne... epically fun to fight with. At his fight with Alduin, he had 150 health, 100 magicka, 350 stamina (level 30) man that was a blast. Too bad most light armors look really bad. The Dragonscale is atrocious I think.
I have a funny feeling he's exactly the kind of Dragonborn the Thalmore and Aldmeri Dominion would not get along with.
basically for my paladin, Broc, he took care of the Dragons issue first - felt higher priority
then helped defend Whiterun
after defending Whiterun, he accepted "I'm in it now" and went full-bore as a commander and took out the rest of the Stormcloaks.
then while in Solitude, learned about Poteyma, and took her out next
yeah, paladin with a greatsword and light armor/negated heavy armor - Champion of Kyne... epically fun to fight with. At his fight with Alduin, he had 150 health, 100 magicka, 350 stamina (level 30)
man that was a blast. Too bad most light armors look really bad. The Dragonscale is atrocious I think.I have a funny feeling he's exactly the kind of Dragonborn the Thalmore and Aldmeri Dominion would not get along with.
GrumpyBadger
Article Writer
Actually, he's a Nord. Way I see it, Priest/Priestesses aren't exactly mages. We start the game with healing. During a particularly low point in his story (fanfic coming I promise), he visits the Temple of Kynareth in Whiterun, basically wanting to call the Goddess out for making him "Dragonborn" and missing some key moments back home at Jorvaskrr. Instead, he sees his true potential.
His quest involves saving the tree (instead getting the sapling) and then better perfecting his healing arts with Danica.
It's the same with his illusion perks. To me, all his illusion abilities are exactly the same as any Gunnie I know that's boots-down in the USMC. Aka, no "magic" required there either. He's a Nord, named Broc. Broc means "badger" in Gaelic - aka, stubborn. So no matter what the "College" may say, he ain't no mage
make no mistake, Breton fits, racially. But then again, so does Altmer... but how does that work, roleplay wise, as Dovahkiin? My Battlemage is a Breton though, and a very tough one at that.
My three main characters are basically:
Broc - lawful good - Paladin/Dovahkiin - aka Superman-ish
Morgynna - neutral good - Battlemage - aka Catwoman-ish
Qa'bar - chaotic good - Demonhunter - aka Bats at his darkest-ish
His quest involves saving the tree (instead getting the sapling) and then better perfecting his healing arts with Danica.
It's the same with his illusion perks. To me, all his illusion abilities are exactly the same as any Gunnie I know that's boots-down in the USMC. Aka, no "magic" required there either. He's a Nord, named Broc. Broc means "badger" in Gaelic - aka, stubborn. So no matter what the "College" may say, he ain't no mage
make no mistake, Breton fits, racially. But then again, so does Altmer... but how does that work, roleplay wise, as Dovahkiin? My Battlemage is a Breton though, and a very tough one at that.
My three main characters are basically:
Broc - lawful good - Paladin/Dovahkiin - aka Superman-ish
Morgynna - neutral good - Battlemage - aka Catwoman-ish
Qa'bar - chaotic good - Demonhunter - aka Bats at his darkest-ish
NENALATA
Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
Jeremius said: ↑
Uh, aren't those soldiers all on the Border with the Dominion territories to prepare for the Great War?You'd think so, except it is quite strange. They can't spare any soldiers to give Tullius, but are more than willing to spare entire Imperial patrols to meet Maven's Mead shipments from Skyrim and personally escorting it to the destination. Skyrim's border being quite far from the Dominion's border.
Not so fast...
1) Mayven's an Imperial supporter. Whose to say she's not doing favors for the Empire?
2) As the future Jarl of Riften, she's a VIP, a political asset. Empire would have to cater to her.
3) Cyrodil is overwhelmed with violence, prob more of the Thalmor's dirty work, so more soldiers are needed to quell the Civil unrest.
NENALATA
Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
Ah for fluff sake...
I'm a Post Mede Imperial and shall live and die as such. I do still respect the Dominion however I don't like what the Thalmor are doing these days and DO NOT want to see the Dominion end up like Empire, conquering everyone, forgetting who they are because then... well you figure it out.
"Upon my honor I do swear undying loyalty to the Emperor, or Empress, and unwavering obedience to the officers of this great Empire. May those above judge me, and those below take me, if I fail in my duty. Long live the Emperor! Long live the Empire!"
I'm a Post Mede Imperial and shall live and die as such. I do still respect the Dominion however I don't like what the Thalmor are doing these days and DO NOT want to see the Dominion end up like Empire, conquering everyone, forgetting who they are because then... well you figure it out.
GrumpyBadger
Article Writer
I hear ya Nenalata! "For the Empire!"
but seriously, Broc was my first character, started in 2012, and just did "greatweapons, light armor, and bunch of stamina sounds good.... oooh, and enchanting and smithing to pay the bills!" somehow, by the time he reached level 80, post 1.9... both his armor levels were still below 45!! Things just never really hit him!
Aednat (little fire in old Gaelic), my alternate Dragonborn, is a paladin lawful-good Nord as well. Heavy armor, sword and shield... and Stormcloak. She sees the Aldmeri Dominion as a threat, and the Empire as their puppets. She also feels Ulfric is as well, but his cause - a strong, centralized and protected Skyrim, is not.
far as "racism" is concerned in the game - it can be taken against both sides. No matter which major hold one visits, either Imperial or Stormcloak, Khajiit stay outside the walls. Hence why Qa'Bar wears Dwarven armor hides his purrrdy face
but seriously, Broc was my first character, started in 2012, and just did "greatweapons, light armor, and bunch of stamina sounds good.... oooh, and enchanting and smithing to pay the bills!" somehow, by the time he reached level 80, post 1.9... both his armor levels were still below 45!! Things just never really hit him!
Aednat (little fire in old Gaelic), my alternate Dragonborn, is a paladin lawful-good Nord as well. Heavy armor, sword and shield... and Stormcloak. She sees the Aldmeri Dominion as a threat, and the Empire as their puppets. She also feels Ulfric is as well, but his cause - a strong, centralized and protected Skyrim, is not.
far as "racism" is concerned in the game - it can be taken against both sides. No matter which major hold one visits, either Imperial or Stormcloak, Khajiit stay outside the walls. Hence why Qa'Bar wears Dwarven armor
hides his purrrdy face
NENALATA
Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
Hey you ever heard of Requiem?
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/19281/
AWESOME mod, see this is what I thought Skyrim would have been like out of the box.
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/19281/
AWESOME mod, see this is what I thought Skyrim would have been like out of the box.
Rimfaxe96
Well-Known Member
Because mead is far more important than a few citizens of Skyrim. You'd have to be German to understand this.
J
Jeremius
Guest
In the end, if you just pay attention to the game and what it is telling you, Skyrim is far better off under the Empire than it is under the irrational, hot-headed rebellion.
This is what makes the Empire the right choice over the Stormcloaks. The rebels are never going to think clearly, and are obviously going to destroy Skyrim all in the name of "religious freedom" that comes with the oppression of other races, who are more important than some god.
This is what makes the Empire the right choice over the Stormcloaks. The rebels are never going to think clearly, and are obviously going to destroy Skyrim all in the name of "religious freedom" that comes with the oppression of other races, who are more important than some god.
Anouck
Queen of Procrastination
Freedom = freedom. And as soon as you are going to say "We won't take away your freedom, except for your right to believe in whatever God you want", you are not understanding the concept of freedom. Now, I am the last person not to understand why Skyrim is in the situation it is currently in. The Empire had to sign the WGC, and this happened to be one of the conditions. Since they were losing the war, they didn't have the luxury to decline this demand by the Aldmeri Dominion. Hence why the worship of Talos is now banned.
Do I morally agree with it? No. But that doesn't mean it is realistic to now say we are going to raise a rebellion against the Empire. The ban of Talos is a temporary thing. It is part of a peace treaty the Empire had to sign in order to get time to rebuild forces and to regain strength. Soon the Imperial Legion and the Aldmeri Dominion will fight each other once more. And the stronger the Empire is, the bigger the chance of victory. And the bigger the chance of victory, the bigger the chance you get your Talos back.
The question: "Imperials or Stormcloaks" is basically the question: "Do you want temporary satisfaction right now and join a rebellion (Stormcloaks)? Or do you want to go for the long term solution and be patient for now (Imperials)?".
By raising a rebellion you weaken the Empire. They have to wage a war on two fronts: one of them is a civil war in Skyrim and the other one is the upcoming second round of the Great War. You are only decreasing the chance of victory, and thus indirectly helping the Aldmeri Dominion. Something NENALATA is probably happy with.
Do I morally agree with it? No. But that doesn't mean it is realistic to now say we are going to raise a rebellion against the Empire. The ban of Talos is a temporary thing. It is part of a peace treaty the Empire had to sign in order to get time to rebuild forces and to regain strength. Soon the Imperial Legion and the Aldmeri Dominion will fight each other once more. And the stronger the Empire is, the bigger the chance of victory. And the bigger the chance of victory, the bigger the chance you get your Talos back.
The question: "Imperials or Stormcloaks" is basically the question: "Do you want temporary satisfaction right now and join a rebellion (Stormcloaks)? Or do you want to go for the long term solution and be patient for now (Imperials)?".
By raising a rebellion you weaken the Empire. They have to wage a war on two fronts: one of them is a civil war in Skyrim and the other one is the upcoming second round of the Great War. You are only decreasing the chance of victory, and thus indirectly helping the Aldmeri Dominion. Something NENALATA is probably happy with.
NENALATA
Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
So that's the way you wanna play it huh? That's fine.
I know I've done MORE than my fair share of defending the Empire while on here and before. Long enough to know that you cannot trust Emperor Mede or his "Officers". Right?
Also done more than my fair share of defending the Thalmor too.
That's all well and fine with me Anouck. Except you're forgetting about something.
An Emperor and Admin whom thinks it's ok to surrender the Freedom(s) of his 'subjects' is not fit to rule and must be dealt with. Emperor Mede II and his entire Admin need to be purged.
The Civil War and the Thalmor are more or less challenges that the Imperial Citizens should never have had to deal with, these things should have been handled properly by the Emperor, Legion and left at that.
Alas, they were not.
And that's really, the main reason the Empire is having so many problems. The Legion STOPPED FIGHTING the War. So, now it's the Citizens problem.
The Citizens suffer in ways befit of war criminals, drug off in the middle of the night, tortured, TAXED insufficient to their rank in society and all the while the Legion, the GUARDS are standing on the sidelines in approval.
I know I've done MORE than my fair share of defending the Empire while on here and before. Long enough to know that you cannot trust Emperor Mede or his "Officers". Right?
Also done more than my fair share of defending the Thalmor too.
That's all well and fine with me Anouck. Except you're forgetting about something.
An Emperor and Admin whom thinks it's ok to surrender the Freedom(s) of his 'subjects' is not fit to rule and must be dealt with. Emperor Mede II and his entire Admin need to be purged.
The Civil War and the Thalmor are more or less challenges that the Imperial Citizens should never have had to deal with, these things should have been handled properly by the Emperor, Legion and left at that.
Alas, they were not.
And that's really, the main reason the Empire is having so many problems. The Legion STOPPED FIGHTING the War. So, now it's the Citizens problem.
The Citizens suffer in ways befit of war criminals, drug off in the middle of the night, tortured, TAXED insufficient to their rank in society and all the while the Legion, the GUARDS are standing on the sidelines in approval.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Maven does, what benefits Maven. Be it having someone assassinated or getting cozy with Thalmor.
What good is an political asset, if you don't have the province because you don't have enough soldiers there to end the rebellion.
Cyrodiil hasn't been mentioned to have violence in over twelve years. Tullius is dealing with open rebellion.
If you actually paid attention to the game, you'd actually see Skyrim under the Empire is bad too.
The White-Gold Concordat oppresses Nords, the Thalmor dragging them off in the night at will? How many Nord prisoners do you think were actually caught breaking the Concordat, when the Thalmor attack you for just speaking to them.
Agents of the high elven Aldmeri Dominion are known as Thalmor. They maintain an embassy in Skyrim, and have been known to secretly capture and imprison any Nords who question their doctrines or beliefs. - Loading Screen
Talos isn't considered 'some god'. He was viewed as the greatest Divine to so many, he was man and became god. It gave humanity the hope and the question, could they do it also. Could all men strive and reach divine hood.
The Thalmor move about the Empire with impunity. Are you sure about religious freedom? Twenty six years, and are you certain the Empire is would restore worshiping Talos?
"They can defile our shrine, they can arrest our people and they can silence our voices, but the Empire will never destroy our spirit."
That would depend, the Empire has been on an steady rate of decline for the last 200 years. It only has the provinces of High Rock and Skyrim left as part of their Empire.
Skyrim is in open rebellion and High Rock hasn't made a move to either aid the Empire or the Rebellion. So High Rock is going to wait and see.
Titus Mede II, gets assassinated and we're not even sure why. That is a pretty big question mark on the Empire's future.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
NENALATA
Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
NENALATA said: ↑
Not so fast...1) Mayven's an Imperial supporter. Whose to say she's not doing favors for the Empire?Maven does, what benefits Maven. Be it having someone assassinated or getting cozy with Thalmor.
I would think the ways things are going the Empire needs all the allies it can find. Turn Lemons into Lemonade.
NENALATA said: ↑
2) As the future Jarl of Riften, she's a VIP, a political asset. Empire would have to cater to her.What good is an political asset, if you don't have the province because you don't have enough soldiers there to end the rebellion.
Exactly why they need her. She's got lots of influence OVER the Province in dispute. It's a risk but the closer you are to danger, the further you are from harm.
NENALATA said: ↑
3) Cyrodil is overwhelmed with violence, prob more of the Thalmor's dirty work, so more soldiers are needed to quell the Civil unrest.Cyrodiil hasn't been mentioned to have violence in over twelve years. Tullius is dealing with open rebellion.
No? Cicero's Journal is a good read. Bandits killing DB Assassins in broad daylight... Violence spreading to city after city...
Jeremius said: ↑
In the end, if you just pay attention to the game and what it is telling you, Skyrim is far better off under the Empire than it is under the irrational, hot-headed rebellion.If you actually paid attention to the game, you'd actually see Skyrim under the Empire is bad too.
I dunno every Imperial table I see is LOADED with food and money.
Jeremius said: ↑
This is what makes the Empire the right choice over the Stormcloaks. The rebels are never going to think clearly, and are obviously going to destroy Skyrim all in the name of "religious freedom" that comes with the oppression of other races, who are more important than some god.The White-Gold Concordat oppresses Nords, the Thalmor dragging them off in the night at will? How many Nord prisoners do you think were actually caught breaking the Concordat, when the Thalmor attack you for just speaking to them.
Agents of the high elven Aldmeri Dominion are known as Thalmor. They maintain an embassy in Skyrim, and have been known to secretly capture and imprison any Nords who question their doctrines or beliefs. - Loading Screen
Talos isn't considered 'some god'. He was viewed as the greatest Divine to so many, he was man and became god. It gave humanity the hope and the question, could they do it also. Could all men strive and reach divine hood.
No one was oppressed (except for the blades) before Ulfric's Markarth incident. Which really was none but a PR campaign for him.
NENALATA said: ↑
Whereas if everyone was doing what they were supposed to do to start with, they'd either be a lot better off or have religious freedom restored by now.The Thalmor move about the Empire with impunity. Are you sure about religious freedom? Twenty six years, and are you certain the Empire is would restore worshiping Talos?
"They can defile our shrine, they can arrest our people and they can silence our voices, but the Empire will never destroy our spirit."
The Empire has had it's ups and downs. During these times, it was a different question being asked. Answer does not change just because the question changes.
Anouck said: ↑
Or do you want to go for the long term solution and be patient for now (Imperials)?".That would depend, the Empire has been on an steady rate of decline for the last 200 years. It only has the provinces of High Rock and Skyrim left as part of their Empire.
Skyrim is in open rebellion and High Rock hasn't made a move to either aid the Empire or the Rebellion. So High Rock is going to wait and see.
Titus Mede II, gets assassinated and we're not even sure why. That is a pretty big question mark on the Empire's future.
Sure we know why. It's the Elder Council, they want to make CHANGES to Imperial policy. And it's clear the Emperor opposes change. That alone is more than sufficient reason for him to step down.
