Surviving in light armour

[cantgobacknow]

I have two characters.

The first is a Paladin-like character. Level 13. Heavy armour (skill: 47), shield, Block (38), and a sword (52)

The other is a rogue-like character. Level 16. Light armour (57), archery (42), two daggers (39), and sneak (47). I use the Dark Brotherhood armour.

The trouble I'm having is surviving with the rogue. I try to open with my bow as much as possible, use poisons/potions with my weapons, etc. But as soon as anything gets into melee with me, I die in just a few hits. Mots things seem to hit my rogue for at least 25% of my health. And out in the wilderness when creatures sometimes surprise me (big cats and bears for example), they tend to make very quick work of me.

On the other hand my Paladin can fight the same enemies with ease (without losing much health at all).

What advantages does the light armour user have over the heavy? It seems, sneaking excepted, that my Paladin can do anything my rogue can do only much easier. I recently fought the dragon south of Winterhold on both characters. With 3 or 4 attempts on my rogue I could not kill the dragon. With my Paladin, the dragon was overly simple, and easily killed on my first attempt.

Note that I'm playing on the same difficulty level with both characters.

I like the rogue as a concept, but the survivability is SO bad its hard not to justify playing a heavy-armoured type.

 

[cantgobacknow]

...and I realize that the rogue, having less armour, will take more damage with every hit. But is there any advantage/strategy in wearing light that allows me to make up for the lack of armour (that brings the survivability of the two characters closer)?

 

[dovakiihn@skyrim]

Use the shout Become Ethereal and minor squire potions.

 

[dovakiihn@skyrim]

...and I realize that the rogue, having less armour, will take more damage with every hit. But is there any advantage/strategy in wearing light that allows me to make up for the lack of armour (that brings the survivability of the two characters closer)?

For strategy; Have a follower and have them attack. Just keep flanking whilst they're distracted.

 

[Nighthiker77]

Light armor is much better at higher levels because damage reduction caps at 567 displayed for a whole set of heavy or light, and you get stamina regen from windwalker, additional damage and stagger avoidance from deft movement, and you can carry a few alternate pieces with different enchantments.

You are taking a lot of damage in the shrouded set because it doesn't respond to smithing perks. Get a dragonscale, scaled, or elven gilded chest piece and it will Smith a lot higher if you smith up the left side. If you smithed up the right, you can still get good light armor from dragonscale, the saviors hide, or light Stahlrim I think.

I would also switch the right dagger to a sword, and Windshear in particular once you finish the Dark Brotherhood. The stagger from windshear doesn't require a power attack, and works as good as a shield bash. Force Without Effort is good for a rogue/assassin too so you can keep dealing damage.

Windshear will also have more reach than a dagger. I would pair it with the Blade of Woe or a Dragonbone dagger in the left hand. Backstab with your left hand, and dual flurry in melee.

The dual flurry perks will make a world of difference, and so will dual savagery as long as you have stamina.

 

[Nighthiker77]

Also, if you aren't smithing, sneak and avoidance are going to be able lot more important.

With smithing, you can get close to the cap with elven gilded. Even closer or above with a smithing potion.

 

[High King of Skyrim]

Heavy armour is the easy route to take. Any old fool can wade into the thick of combat with an armoured, tank-like skin and not take too much damage obviously. Light Armour however, demands a different approach. Forget the stealth benefit for a moment and think in terms of where you're struggling, combat. Now with light armour you have a distinct advantage, speed and stamina. However, these advantages are rendered useless if you do not know how to utilise them. Your rogue character is primarily an offensive character as you've elected to dual wield. So you inflict mass damage but it comes at a cost, defence. Since you don't even have the ability to block you've made things harder for yourself than you need to. No shield, no blocking with your weapon and no thick armour to absorb damage. This is simply the build you've chosen. If you tweaked it just a little by using one weapon instead of two then you would gain the ability to block. The best perk in the tree is quick reflexes, which will enable you to avoid a power attack altogether. Perhaps adopt this tactic only if discovered and your initial duel wielding barrage fails to drop your foe. Rest assured as you progress through the light armour tree you'll be able to shrug off blows by even the strongest enemies and by this time no doubt your duel savagery will be lethal, you won't need to dodge/block. Good luck!

 

[dovakiihn@skyrim]

The only time I uesed light armour was when you take over Windheln with the Empire. I used it than because it was an easy quest and I had just found it.

 

[shadowkitty]

What Nighthiker77 said.
Maybe do the Thieves guild quest and get the nightingale armour, and then upgrade it with void salts, but you do need to have your smithing up.
If you like the DB armour, then do the quest to get the ancient shrouded armour and it's cowl gives you 30% better archery and it can be upgraded (with leather).
Also try to find some armour like gauntlets, jewellery, that has archery enchantments on them, and upgrade your bow and use the best arrows for your levelled character.
Have patience, it takes a while to work up a light armour character to the point where you take very little damage.
I am doing my third play through with light armour and I would not go heavy at all. (Unless I decide to make a male warrior character at some stage) I don't even wear a helmet, as I have a circlet that improves bows by 40%.

 

[original_funk]

I've created two light armor characters and gotten one up to level 50 and have managed to slay Aldiun with her. So far and I've done pretty well with them, though you have to know how to use them. Here's how I do it:

• Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. Use your advantage of light-footedness to avoid swings, and make sure your one-hand skill is high as well as archery.
• Use a shield, and invest in the quick reflexes perk. When an enemy does a power attack the time will slow and instead of blocking it flank the enemy and get in as many quick jabs as possible.
• Make sure your most used shouts are Unrelenting force to keep them at bay, and slow time to help you avoid their attacks.
• Use the shield to bash them and get them staggering. This can help you get in some quick jabs.
• Fight melee fights in third-person. It helps you get a better picture of the fight and you can avoid the enemies attacks easier.
• When fighting dragons, use cover to avoid their thu'um, use power attacks and shield bash to keep the dragon from making attacks (Make sure you drink plenty of fortify and regen stamina potions before a dragon melee battle). Unrelenting Force can stop a dragon's thu'um in it's tracks if you can't find cover in time.
  
  Basically forget the way you fight with a heavy character and learn a new way of combat. Use those methods, but also try and find something that works for you. Remember that the enemies' sword can hurt you more, but you can move much faster and avoid those blows

 

[Daelon DuLac]

I go by the rule: Light Armor - sneak, backstab and avoid (slash & dash and ranged)/Heavy Armor - TANK!
Agree re followers, but, if a loner - be sure to use illusion, particularly frenzy & fury on them from a distance and watch the fun.

I just don't find light armor at low levels all that great for melee combat.

 

[MetalHeadManiac]

With your rogue i would stay sneaking the whole time. My assassin does that but to move faster i roll everywhere. For sabre cats and stuff i normally just run and search for a big rock and if i cant find one and their catching up i stagger them with a crossbow. As for which armor is better i go with heavy armor because of the less staggering and falling damage. I have the conditioning perk so i move as fast as i would with light armor and my armor that i wear doesn't weigh anything while im wearing it. Heavy armor takes a couple more perk points to fill but you probably wont need to fill them all for the armor cap. also at a high level i tend to not care very much about perks because i can reset them in a skill depending on the circumstances because i have dragonborn and more souls than i do shouts that i haven't discovered.

As for paladin, i feel like restoration would also be a skill. Idk why ive just associated the paladin with all things good so i do that and sorcerer as kinda the opposite.

The reason you couldnt beat the dragon is because you need to use stealth and dragons can be hard to sneak on ecspecially if they attack you first. Stealth characters are meant to kill in enemy in as little hits a possible.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

With your rogue i would stay sneaking the whole time. My assassin does that but to move faster i roll everywhere. For sabre cats and stuff i normally just run and search for a big rock and if i cant find one and their catching up i stagger them with a crossbow. As for which armor is better i go with heavy armor because of the less staggering and falling damage. I have the conditioning perk so i move as fast as i would with light armor and my armor that i wear doesn't weigh anything while im wearing it. Heavy armor takes a couple more perk points to fill but you probably wont need to fill them all for the armor cap. also at a high level i tend to not care very much about perks because i can reset them in a skill depending on the circumstances because i have dragonborn and more souls than i do shouts that i haven't discovered.

As for paladin, i feel like restoration would also be a skill. Idk why ive just associated the paladin with all things good so i do that and sorcerer as kinda the opposite.

The reason you couldnt beat the dragon is because you need to use stealth and dragons can be hard to sneak on ecspecially if they attack you first. Stealth characters are meant to kill in enemy in as little hits a possible.

The only way I've ever been able to sneak up on a dragon is to come down from above.

 

[MetalHeadManiac]

With your rogue i would stay sneaking the whole time. My assassin does that but to move faster i roll everywhere. For sabre cats and stuff i normally just run and search for a big rock and if i cant find one and their catching up i stagger them with a crossbow. As for which armor is better i go with heavy armor because of the less staggering and falling damage. I have the conditioning perk so i move as fast as i would with light armor and my armor that i wear doesn't weigh anything while im wearing it. Heavy armor takes a couple more perk points to fill but you probably wont need to fill them all for the armor cap. also at a high level i tend to not care very much about perks because i can reset them in a skill depending on the circumstances because i have dragonborn and more souls than i do shouts that i haven't discovered.

As for paladin, i feel like restoration would also be a skill. Idk why ive just associated the paladin with all things good so i do that and sorcerer as kinda the opposite.

The reason you couldnt beat the dragon is because you need to use stealth and dragons can be hard to sneak on ecspecially if they attack you first. Stealth characters are meant to kill in enemy in as little hits a possible.

The only way I've ever been able to sneak up on a dragon is to come down from above.

Exactly which pretty much only happens with a sleeping dragon at their lair IF its next to a mountain

 

[Lightningfalcon]

This helped me ALOT when being an assassin. 2 words: Paralysis Poison!

Buy a plot of land and get a garden and maybe a greenhouse and grow one side "Canis root" and one side "Imp stool"

Wait a day or 2 and harvest them then go to an alchemy table and make paralysis poisons!

You'll have tons and you can poison your weapon to paralyze them and they'll be down on the ground and they'll take a short while to get up while then you're slashing away at them.

Get some good alchemy gear though cause then your paralyze poisons will last longer. This also levels alchemy quickly.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

Heavy armour is the easy route to take. Any old fool can wade into the thick of combat with an armoured, tank-like skin and not take too much damage obviously. Light Armour however, demands a different approach. Forget the stealth benefit for a moment and think in terms of where you're struggling, combat. Now with light armour you have a distinct advantage, speed and stamina. However, these advantages are rendered useless if you do not know how to utilise them. Your rogue character is primarily an offensive character as you've elected to dual wield. So you inflict mass damage but it comes at a cost, defence. Since you don't even have the ability to block you've made things harder for yourself than you need to. No shield, no blocking with your weapon and no thick armour to absorb damage. This is simply the build you've chosen. If you tweaked it just a little by using one weapon instead of two then you would gain the ability to block. The best perk in the tree is quick reflexes, which will enable you to avoid a power attack altogether. Perhaps adopt this tactic only if discovered and your initial duel wielding barrage fails to drop your foe. Rest assured as you progress through the light armour tree you'll be able to shrug off blows by even the strongest enemies and by this time no doubt your duel savagery will be lethal, you won't need to dodge/block. Good luck!

No one, on higher difficulties, "shrugs off blows from the strongest of opponents". That's a fact, and I would never count on such a stradegy on a Master or Legendary playthrough. That said, it isn't impossible to shrug off attacks from, let's say a Legendary Dragon, but it is extremely difficult, with either heavy or light armour.

I almost always start my characters off with light armour so they can carry more loot. I go with one sword so they can bash opponents on the move, but for enemies that hit harder I elect to take a shield. Either a large health pool or a large stamina pool can make or break your character. On the harder difficulties, having a lot of health is the only real defense you're going to have against stronger enemies, and stamina can dictate how many healing items you can carry, as well as how long you can keep the enemy staggered. I would not recommend going the dual wield route at a low level, as your damage output just doesn't cut it. Everything else has been covered extensively and extremely well, and I even repeated some of it. Good job people, for being brilliant.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

This helped me ALOT when being an assassin. 2 words: Paralysis Poison!

Buy a plot of land and get a garden and maybe a greenhouse and grow one side "Canis root" and one side "Imp stool"

Wait a day or 2 and harvest them then go to an alchemy table and make paralysis poisons!

You'll have tons and you can poison your weapon to paralyze them and they'll be down on the ground and they'll take a short while to get up while then you're slashing away at them.

Get some good alchemy gear though cause then your paralyze poisons will last longer. This also levels alchemy quickly.

I like Slow too. That way I can just pick 'em off if I want to. Where's the challenge in picking off something that can't even attempt to run away - run away, very, very slowly, yes, but still trying to escape! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

With your rogue i would stay sneaking the whole time. My assassin does that but to move faster i roll everywhere. For sabre cats and stuff i normally just run and search for a big rock and if i cant find one and their catching up i stagger them with a crossbow. As for which armor is better i go with heavy armor because of the less staggering and falling damage. I have the conditioning perk so i move as fast as i would with light armor and my armor that i wear doesn't weigh anything while im wearing it. Heavy armor takes a couple more perk points to fill but you probably wont need to fill them all for the armor cap. also at a high level i tend to not care very much about perks because i can reset them in a skill depending on the circumstances because i have dragonborn and more souls than i do shouts that i haven't discovered.

As for paladin, i feel like restoration would also be a skill. Idk why ive just associated the paladin with all things good so i do that and sorcerer as kinda the opposite.

The reason you couldnt beat the dragon is because you need to use stealth and dragons can be hard to sneak on ecspecially if they attack you first. Stealth characters are meant to kill in enemy in as little hits a possible.

The only way I've ever been able to sneak up on a dragon is to come down from above.

Exactly which pretty much only happens with a sleeping dragon at their lair IF its next to a mountain

Invisibility and muffle 100% of noise.

 

[Lightningfalcon]

The only way I've ever been able to sneak up on a dragon is to come down from above.

Exactly which pretty much only happens with a sleeping dragon at their lair IF its next to a mountain

Invisibility and muffle 100% of noise.

Illusion assassins are so overpowered, where's the challenge?

I've been one and it's just sneak, stab, cast invis, sneak, stab, cast invis.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

Exactly which pretty much only happens with a sleeping dragon at their lair IF its next to a mountain

Invisibility and muffle 100% of noise.

Illusion assassins are so overpowered, where's the challenge?

I've been one and it's just sneak, stab, cast invis, sneak, stab, cast invis.

It does make it pretty sad once your sneak is up there, I agree. I can stand directly in front of somebody with an arrow pointed at their face and they don't even notice me. I suppose I could bump in to them a few times to get them to notice me, but that probably would not be a good thing.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

You don't have to cast illusions for every enemy you come across, just dragons which have a ridiculous detection rating. You can limit yourself all you want, but unless you have alot of sneaking bonuses it's exceedingly difficult to sneak up on a dragon.

 

[cantgobacknow]

Perhaps adopt this tactic only if discovered and your initial duel wielding barrage fails to drop your foe.

I'm lucky if that "opening barrage" does much more than 4% damage to the one I'm attacking.

<edit>To the more powerful critters which *I* run in to thus far</edit>

 

[cantgobacknow]

I've created two light armor characters and gotten one up to level 50 and have managed to slay Aldiun with her. So far and I've done pretty well with them, though you have to know how to use them. Here's how I do it:

• Use a shield, and invest in the quick reflexes perk. When an enemy does a power attack the time will slow and instead of blocking it flank the enemy and get in as many quick jabs as possible.

A shield seems so un-rogue like to me. Is it the only viable way to go?