Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

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Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
Anyway back to the debate. Ulfric only cares about himself, he's power hungry and merely wants the throne.

"With the Stormcloaks at his back, Ulfric's poised to rid Skyrim of the Empire's forces and invalidate our involvement with the White-Gold Concordat. Between you and I, I think his motivations are a bit more self-serving. He uses this holy war as leverage in order to pursue the throne. If he were to be crowned High King, I'm not so certain it would be the golden age his followers expect."

"I'm no man's fool. I know Ulfric Stormcloak's selfish and power-hungry, but he's the devil I know. Does that put it plain enough for you?"

Those two dialogues are quite something. ;)

I disagree and the only reason why you say that hes selfish and power hungry is because you took an opinion from a NPC seriously. Theirs no evidence whatsoever about him being this way. If he is selfish then why is he fighting so hard to get rid of the Empire's forces in Skyrim for the sole purpose to invalidate the White-Gold Concordat? Under Stormcloak victory benefits all and not just Ulfric. The Nord bard in Markarth will no longer be harassed by the Thalmor for doing nothing more than to worship Talos. Same goes for the Talos priest in Whiterun. With Imperial Victory (Playing a staunch Imperial) Not only Ondolemar is still walking about in Markarth and still harassing, but the Talos priest in Whiterun goes straight to jail!

The one who's selfish and power-hungry is Emperor Titus Mede II. It was his weaken Empire that brought so much animosity against the Empire. They lose Hammerfell and now Skyrim. If Titus was smart he would've downgrade and made an ally agreement with these two countries, High rock included. At least the Thalmor would have no jurisdiction over these two countries.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
Anyway back to the debate. Ulfric only cares about himself, he's power hungry and merely wants the throne.

"With the Stormcloaks at his back, Ulfric's poised to rid Skyrim of the Empire's forces and invalidate our involvement with the White-Gold Concordat. Between you and I, I think his motivations are a bit more self-serving. He uses this holy war as leverage in order to pursue the throne. If he were to be crowned High King, I'm not so certain it would be the golden age his followers expect."

"I'm no man's fool. I know Ulfric Stormcloak's selfish and power-hungry, but he's the devil I know. Does that put it plain enough for you?"

Those two dialogues are quite something. ;)

I disagree and the only reason why you say that hes selfish and power hungry is because you took an opinion from a NPC seriously. Theirs no evidence whatsoever about him being this way. If he is selfish then why is he fighting so hard to get rid of the Empire's forces in Skyrim for the sole purpose to invalidate the White-Gold Concordat? Under Stormcloak victory benefits all and not just Ulfric. The Nord bard in Markarth will no longer be harassed by the Thalmor for doing nothing more than to worship Talos. Same goes for the Talos priest in Whiterun. With Imperial Victory (Playing a staunch Imperial) Not only Ondolemar is still walking about in Markarth and still harassing, but the Talos priest in Whiterun goes straight to jail!

The one who's selfish and power-hungry is Emperor Titus Mede II. It was his weaken Empire that brought so much animosity against the Empire. They lose Hammerfell and now Skyrim. If Titus was smart he would've downgrade and made an ally agreement with these two countries, High rock included. At least the Thalmor would have no jurisdiction over these two countries.

Was going to respond, but then saw the poster name. Decided someone else would be better capable to being composed in responding.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
I disagree and the only reason why you say that hes selfish and power hungry is because you took an opinion from a NPC seriously.

Those are Stormcloak supporters, so it isn't just an 'opinion' shared by me, or Empire supporting NPCs. But Stormcloak supporters.

You really think they're lying? They know who Ulfric is, they supported him from the start. Dengeir (sp?) however was forced to step down after he sided with Ulfric. They know Ulfric rather well, all the Jarls know each other quite well.

You take the opinion of Ulfric seriously, when he calls the Empire weak. Yet won't dare make a move when the Emperor is in Skyrim. Because that 'weak' Empire would destroy him, they would crush his entire rebellion like it was an insect. So far Ulfric's rebellion isn't gaining much attention in the Empire, only that he killed the High King so the Emperor sent one man.

And that one man nearly ended the rebellion, right then and there. Just shows how much of an amateur Ulfric really is, the man walks right into a Legion ambush? With just a handful of bodyguards. Then what does this man do? He surrenders to a 'weak' Empire? With his head down in shame, unable to make eye contact when they're lined up on the block?

If it wasn't for the Thalmor, Ulfric would of been dead long before Tullius arrived. So what makes you think, Ulfric is the man to lead Skyrim when he owes his life, and the continuation of his cause to the Thalmor?
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
I disagree and the only reason why you say that hes selfish and power hungry is because you took an opinion from a NPC seriously.

Those are Stormcloak supporters, so it isn't just an 'opinion' shared by me, or Empire supporting NPCs. But Stormcloak supporters.

You really think they're lying? They know who Ulfric is, they supported him from the start. Dengeir (sp?) however was forced to step down after he sided with Ulfric. They know Ulfric rather well, all the Jarls know each other quite well.

You take the opinion of Ulfric seriously, when he calls the Empire weak. Yet won't dare make a move when the Emperor is in Skyrim. Because that 'weak' Empire would destroy him, they would crush his entire rebellion like it was an insect. So far Ulfric's rebellion isn't gaining much attention in the Empire, only that he killed the High King so the Emperor sent one man.

And that one man nearly ended the rebellion, right then and there. Just shows how much of an amateur Ulfric really is, the man walks right into a Legion ambush? With just a handful of bodyguards. Then what does this man do? He surrenders to a 'weak' Empire? With his head down in shame, unable to make eye contact when they're lined up on the block?

If it wasn't for the Thalmor, Ulfric would of been dead long before Tullius arrived. So what makes you think, Ulfric is the man to lead Skyrim when he owes his life, and the continuation of his cause to the Thalmor?


Some people just do not understand. There is also the fact that the man Ulfric killed in a " legal duel" was not the man you surrendered Skyrim, but the man who inherited the province from his father, the man no one bothered to deal with.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
Those are Stormcloak supporters, so it isn't just an 'opinion' shared by me, or Empire supporting NPCs. But Stormcloak supporters.

You really think they're lying? They know who Ulfric is, they supported him from the start. Dengeir (sp?) however was forced to step down after he sided with Ulfric. They know Ulfric rather well, all the Jarls know each other quite well.

You take the opinion of Ulfric seriously, when he calls the Empire weak. Yet won't dare make a move when the Emperor is in Skyrim. Because that 'weak' Empire would destroy him, they would crush his entire rebellion like it was an insect. So far Ulfric's rebellion isn't gaining much attention in the Empire, only that he killed the High King so the Emperor sent one man.

And that one man nearly ended the rebellion, right then and there. Just shows how much of an amateur Ulfric really is, the man walks right into a Legion ambush? With just a handful of bodyguards. Then what does this man do? He surrenders to a 'weak' Empire? With his head down in shame, unable to make eye contact when they're lined up on the block?

If it wasn't for the Thalmor, Ulfric would of been dead long before Tullius arrived. So what makes you think, Ulfric is the man to lead Skyrim when he owes his life, and the continuation of his cause to the Thalmor?

LOL dude the Empire is weak and I'm not just saying that because Ulfric said it. I say that they're weak because the Lore of the Elders scrolls told me so. Of course Ulfric wouldn't dare assassinate the Emperor while hes in Skyrim. He has his boundaries and knows his limits. The Stormcloaks after all are a newly formed military that hasn't gotten big yet. As much as he hates the old bastard his primary target isn't to declare holy war against the Empire but to forcefully drive them out. By doing that will invalidate the White-Gold Concordat because Skyrim would no longer be in Imperial control. The Thalmor would be also be driven out too on top it off. You notice after Stormcloak victory you no longer see thalmor roaming the streets with prisoners, and that is because they were driven out.

Skyrim does not profit off of Imperial victory because the Thalmor are still there and the Imperial legion refuses to help the people of Skyrim from getting slaughtered by the Thalmor for doing nothing more than to worship Talos.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
LOL dude the Empire is weak and I'm not just saying that because Ulfric said it. I say that they're weak because the Lore of the Elders scrolls told me so. Of course Ulfric wouldn't dare assassinate the Emperor while hes in Skyrim. He has his boundaries and knows his limits. The Stormcloaks after all are a newly formed military that hasn't gotten big yet. As much as he hates the old bastard his primary target isn't to declare holy war against the Empire but to forcefully drive them out. By doing that will invalidate the White-Gold Concordat because Skyrim would no longer be in Imperial control. The Thalmor would be also be driven out too on top it off. You notice after Stormcloak victory you no longer see thalmor roaming the streets with prisoners, and that is because they were driven out.

Skyrim does not profit off of Imperial victory because the Thalmor are still there and the Imperial legion refuses to help the people of Skyrim from getting slaughtered by the Thalmor for doing nothing more than to worship Talos.

If you knew even the smallest thing about the Thalmor, you'd know that Justiciars are but one tiny piece of what the Thalmor get up to. They're cloak and dagger, they don't need an official presence in Skyrim to cause damage.

They were infiltrating Cyrodiil 160+ years ago. Causing problems back then also. So please, do go on how kicking out a few Justiciars 'drives out' the Thalmor's influence?

Skyrim does indeed profit from Imperial victory, the Thalmor even mention it harms their overall position. They don't say that about the Stormcloaks, they just want to avoid it. How they even mention it, is more an after thought.

Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim. (NOTE: The coincidental intervention of the dragon at Helgen is still under scrutiny. The obvious conclusion is that whoever is behind the dragons also has an interest in the continuation of the war, but we should not assume therefore that their goals align with our own.) A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed.


Given the choices, I choose the option that keeps the Empire united and harms the Thalmor. Three provinces of the Empire stand a much better chance of success, than Skyrim going off on their own, with crap Jarls who get given their own armies by Ulfric. Not to mention their plans to rebuild Skyrim, alone? At least under the Empire, the Jarls are using the resources of a combined Empire to rebuild. Thus making it go faster.

Ulfric Stormcloak is considered a dormant asset while the Civil War rages, does he become an active asset after victory? The Thalmor seem to believe direct contact with him remains a possibility. Who knows what they programed into that little Nord brain of his, when they broke and remade him. The man is emotionally and selfishly motivated. Not once did he attempt a diplomatic approach, even two of his major followers consider him selfish and merely after the throne.

If his own followers believe he's selfish and power-hungry, why can't you see it? Are you saying you know Ulfric better than those who most likely knew him for over a decade? They have no reason to lie, or slander him. They're not Imperial supporters, one of them is an extreme devout Stormcloak believer, the other dislikes the Empire strongly. Even Ralof, one of the Stormcloak soldiers mentions he's heard things about Ulfric he doesn't like.
 

malcolmenell

New Member
Well you cant really say which one is best. I Think Imperial feels more like the law and Stormcloaks more like the outlaws. I Joined Imperials on my very succesful Dark Elf. That was really fun. Ulfric is pretty much a racist and power crazy (if you ask me) and also lie i said it feels more like an army in Imperials. Stormcloak, is sure good too but also one thing more that made me decide. Jarl Balgruuf is balliin. He wont be baliin anymore if you do the stormcloak quest. He will be replaced by a not ballin Jarl. So Go Empire and keep the balliin jarl. Enough said.
 

Anouck

Queen of Procrastination
Well you cant really say which one is best. I Think Imperial feels more like the law and Stormcloaks more like the outlaws. I Joined Imperials on my very succesful Dark Elf. That was really fun. Ulfric is pretty much a racist and power crazy (if you ask me) and also lie i said it feels more like an army in Imperials. Stormcloak, is sure good too but also one thing more that made me decide.

There's a lot more to it, on both sides. I am an Imperial myself, but not because they're the law and the Stormcloaks are 'outlaws'. I personally don't think that says anything about who is right in this conflict.

Jarl Balgruuf is balliin. He wont be baliin anymore if you do the stormcloak quest. He will be replaced by a not ballin Jarl. So Go Empire and keep the balliin jarl. Enough said.

I have to admit; this part made me laugh. :p
1386456379_cv0ryo_1too174.gif
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
If you knew even the smallest thing about the Thalmor, you'd know that Justiciars are but one tiny piece of what the Thalmor get up to. They're cloak and dagger, they don't need an official presence in Skyrim to cause damage.

Yes I know about the Thalmor and know that they've created a task force (Justiciars) to root out all Talos worshipers and either slaughter them on sight or take them to a Thalmor run prison where they're most likely be killed after their harsh interrogation.

They were infiltrating Cyrodiil 160+ years ago. Causing problems back then also. So please, do go on how kicking out a few Justiciars 'drives out' the Thalmor's influence?

It helps. It reduces the imprisonments and death of those who worship Talos.

Skyrim does indeed profit from Imperial victory, the Thalmor even mention it harms their overall position. They don't say that about the Stormcloaks, they just want to avoid it. How they even mention it, is more an after thought.


Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim. (NOTE: The coincidental intervention of the dragon at Helgen is still under scrutiny. The obvious conclusion is that whoever is behind the dragons also has an interest in the continuation of the war, but we should not assume therefore that their goals align with our own.) A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed.


Dreading over what was written in Ulfric's dossier does not benefit Skyrim under Imperial victory.The fact that the Thalmor are still in Skyrim even proves that doesn't "harm their overall position".

Given the choices, I choose the option that keeps the Empire united and harms the Thalmor. Three provinces of the Empire stand a much better chance of success, than Skyrim going off on their own, with crap Jarls who get given their own armies by Ulfric. Not to mention their plans to rebuild Skyrim, alone? At least under the Empire, the Jarls are using the resources of a combined Empire to rebuild. Thus making it go faster.

That's wishful thinking but it will never happen. The three provinces of the Empire doesn't exist. The Empire lost Hammerfell and they're losing Skyrim. Empire essentially have 1 province that will still back them up.

Even with Imperial victory I can't possibly see Hammerfell going back to being an Imperial province.

Ulfric Stormcloak is considered a dormant asset while the Civil War rages, does he become an active asset after victory? The Thalmor seem to believe direct contact with him remains a possibility. Who knows what they programed into that little Nord brain of his, when they broke and remade him. The man is emotionally and selfishly motivated. Not once did he attempt a diplomatic approach, even two of his major followers consider him selfish and merely after the throne.

If his own followers believe he's selfish and power-hungry, why can't you see it? Are you saying you know Ulfric better than those who most likely knew him for over a decade? They have no reason to lie, or slander him. They're not Imperial supporters, one of them is an extreme devout Stormcloak believer, the other dislikes the Empire strongly. Even Ralof, one of the Stormcloak soldiers mentions he's heard things about Ulfric he doesn't like.

Yeah theirs going to be direct contact with the Thalmor alright... a sword wielded by an angry Nord close to their necks.

If your friends started back stabbing you by spreading rumors about you... should I believe in what they tell me or should I examine the situation myself by personally speaking with you, and get to know you as a person? I tend to not believe what someone tells me without actually seeing it for my self.

Lets just say for all time sake that Ulfric is in fact nothing more than a selfish prick and power-hungry fool. Why would anyone want to be supporters of this man knowing that hes selfish and power-hungry? Or want anything to do with this man at all? To join his cause would be insane. The situation with Ralof is just gibberish and meaningless. Just because you heard a rumor doesn't mean that it's true.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
I just love seeing Imperial supporters loving up on the Greater Jarl of Whiterun. Not realizing that the Jarl of Whiterun is just using the Imperial legion to take care of a personal issue that he has with Ulfric. Do you honestly believe for a moment that Balgruuf is an actual Imperial supporter? Hell no.

Each time I see Imperial lovers showing their love for this jarl This line always popup in my head.

Quentin: "The men will be fighting in flames."
Balgruuf: "My men are fearless. It's the Imperial milk drinkers I'm worried about."
Quentin: "If you prefer I took my men and left..."
Balgruuf: "No. Of course not. Just - don't let me down Cipius. We'll need to set up water brigades to combat the flames."
Quentin: "Already taken care of."

Even the man himself admits that the Imperials are weak LOL

Keep it up Lovers of the legion.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Yes I know about the Thalmor and know that they've created a task force (Justiciars) to root out all Talos worshipers and either slaughter them on sight or take them to a Thalmor run prison where they're most likely be killed after their harsh interrogation.

Which was only limited to those who openly worshiped Talos. The people the Thalmor are rounding up are to keep the Civil War going, sending supporters flocking to the Stormcloaks.

They use the Civil War as an excuse to have a larger presence, once that is over. And the Legion (Which is onto the Thalmor's game) secures themselves, the Thalmor will have little choice but to back off.

It helps. It reduces the imprisonments and death of those who worship Talos.

Which will die down after Imperial victory, the Thalmor lose their reason for increased operations. They were grabbing those prisoners, so they could send supporters to Ulfric.

Dreading over what was written in Ulfric's dossier does not benefit Skyrim under Imperial victory.The fact that the Thalmor are still in Skyrim even proves that doesn't "harm their overall position".

Because the Thalmor are lying? In an intelligence document, that states Imperial victory will harm their overall position? Is not true? Of course it harms them, the Empire is back to focusing on the war with them.

That's wishful thinking but it will never happen. The three provinces of the Empire doesn't exist. The Empire lost Hammerfell and they're losing Skyrim. Empire essentially have 1 province that will still back them up.

Redguards never considered themselves subjects of the Empire, they were part of a treaty.

Skyrim will tear itself asunder, by themselves. Ulfric can unite them for a time, but the nature of Nords is conflict. Stormcloak Skyrim will never last, you can already see the Jarls differing thoughts of the cause, and of Ulfric.

Do you really not see a disaster in the making? Giving all those Jarls armies? You think upon Ulfric's death, they're going to still agree? Ulfric will unite them, but they're heading towards infighting between the Holds, bickering between the clans.

As bad as the Empire can be, saying they disrespect Nordic traditions... There are some traditions that should be left in the past.

"That's what started this whole war. The Empire couldn't ignore that. Once the jarls start killing each other, we're back to the bad old days."

Even with Imperial victory I can't possibly see Hammerfell going back to being an Imperial province.

Why? Cyrodiil and Hammerfell share a common goal, and there would be many Redguards who know without the Empire. They couldn't of pushed the Aldmeri out. Imperials can be diplomatic, and Ulfric isn't really good at diplomacy.

You think they'd ally with Skyrim? I'll give you a little task, name me one instance where Skyrim and Hammerfell united without the Imperials. They hate each other, fought against each other throughout history.

Hammerfell is going to side with a province, who has more of a history of fluffing them over than Cyrodiil?

Not to mention, what makes you even think Stormcloak Skyrim will even be ready when the next Great War begins? Chances are it'll begin soon after the Civil War ends, Skyrim was weakened by Civil War/Dragons.

So if I was Hammerfell, I'd choose to ally with those who are fighting vs those who are rebuilding and talking about leading Tamriel. I'd so love to see the Redguards siding with Nords who think they're going to lead them.

Yeah theirs going to be direct contact with the Thalmor alright... a sword wielded by an angry Nord close to their necks.

You underestimate the Thalmor.

If your friends started back stabbing you by spreading rumors about you... should I believe in what they tell me or should I examine the situation myself by personally speaking with you, and get to know you as a person? I tend to not believe what someone tells me without actually seeing it for my self.

Spreading rumors? You think they're just talking badly? They have no reason to lie or slander Ulfric Stormcloak, they gain nothing by it. Speaking with Ulfric, cause he's going to come out and say "I power-hungry give me throne!"

The man started a Civil War, because he simply wouldn't ask his King to declare independence.

Lets just say for all time sake that Ulfric is in fact nothing more than a selfish prick and power-hungry fool. Why would anyone want to be supporters of this man knowing that hes selfish and power-hungry? Or want anything to do with this man at all? To join his cause would be insane. The situation with Ralof is just gibberish and meaningless. Just because you heard a rumor doesn't mean that it's true.

Because what choice do many of them have? With us or against us, remember. Also many believe in the Stormcloak cause, it's a good cause. But Ulfric is using the cause to go for the throne.

Dengeir mentions it well. "I'm no man's fool. I know Ulfric Stormcloak's selfish and power-hungry, but he's the devil I know. Does that put it plain enough for you?"

Just because they support the cause, it doesn't mean they have to naively believe Ulfric is a saint and not in it for himself.
Even Imperial supporters claim the cause is true, but the man is a lie. His followers think the same thing, even a devout Stormcloak like Laila.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
I just love seeing Imperial supporters loving up on the Greater Jarl of Whiterun. Not realizing that the Jarl of Whiterun is just using the Imperial legion to take care of a personal issue that he has with Ulfric. Do you honestly believe for a moment that Balgruuf is an actual Imperial supporter? Hell no.

Each time I see Imperial lovers showing their love for this jarl This line always popup in my head.

Quentin: "The men will be fighting in flames."
Balgruuf: "My men are fearless. It's the Imperial milk drinkers I'm worried about."
Quentin: "If you prefer I took my men and left..."
Balgruuf: "No. Of course not. Just - don't let me down Cipius. We'll need to set up water brigades to combat the flames."
Quentin: "Already taken care of."

Even the man himself admits that the Imperials are weak LOL

Keep it up Lovers of the legion.


Yet he still sides with them over the "strong & righteous" Stormcloaks. Why? Because Ulfric forced him. That is his policy, either force someone to join them or get them out of the way. IF he wasn't so focused on his stupid war, I worry about whay would happen to the Dunmer.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Not realizing that the Jarl of Whiterun is just using the Imperial legion to take care of a personal issue that he has with Ulfric.

It amazes me many Stormcloak supporters, go on about Balgruuf is biased against Ulfric. Over by one dialogue given by Ralof's sister...

"I don't think he likes either Ulfric or Elisif much. Who can blame him?" - Alvor

The man dislikes Elisif too. Unless of course you can show me where he states otherwise, until his city is threatened?
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
Not realizing that the Jarl of Whiterun is just using the Imperial legion to take care of a personal issue that he has with Ulfric.

It amazes me many Stormcloak supporters, go on about Ulfric is biased against Ulfric. Over by one dialogue given by Ralof's sister...

"I don't think he likes either Ulfric or Elisif much. Who can blame him?" - Alvor

The man dislikes Elisif too. Unless of course you can show me where he states otherwise, until his city is threatened?


I know I can't blame Jarl Ballin'. Mostly because the Civil War is a War of succession not a war of saving Skyrim.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
Which was only limited to those who openly worshiped Talos. The people the Thalmor are rounding up are to keep the Civil War going, sending supporters flocking to the Stormcloaks.

I don't think the Nord from Markarth was openly worshiping Talos. He didn't have an amulet of Talos around his neck. He kept it inside of his own home yet the Talmor was pursuing him.

They use the Civil War as an excuse to have a larger presence, once that is over. And the Legion (Which is onto the Thalmor's game) secures themselves, the Thalmor will have little choice but to back off.

Can you prove to me that this is a fact and not an opinion?

Which will die down after Imperial victory, the Thalmor lose their reason for increased operations. They were grabbing those prisoners, so they could send supporters to Ulfric.

I seriously doubt that.

Because the Thalmor are lying? In an intelligence document, that states Imperial victory will harm their overall position? Is not true? Of course it harms them, the Empire is back to focusing on the war with them.

Explain to me why it would overall harm their position in Skyrim if the Imperial legion won the war by defeating a bunch former legionnaires who gone rogue? What is stopping Ulfric from using the Greybeard training to benefit his army? To teach the Thu'um to his army? Granted it takes many years to accomplish this, but still that's a great improvement for his military.


Do you really not see a disaster in the making? Giving all those Jarls armies? You think upon Ulfric's death, they're going to still agree? Ulfric will unite them, but they're heading towards infighting between the Holds, bickering between the clans.

I don't see a problem with giving Jarls armies. Why is that such a bad thing? Upon Ulfrics death will be a successor to carry on his life long work to keep Skyrim to their old Nordic traditions. If for any reason Ulfric doesn't bare children the responsibilities will most likely be carried on to his next high general to become the new King once the moot declares it of course.

Hammerfell is going to side with a province, who has more of a history of fluffing them over than Cyrodiil?

Hammwerfell is most likely going to side with Ulfric rather than the Imperial milk drinkers who surrenders so easily.

Not to mention, what makes you even think Stormcloak Skyrim will even be ready when the next Great War begins? Chances are it'll begin soon after the Civil War ends, Skyrim was weakened by Civil War/Dragons.

And what makes you think the Imperial Legion is ready to continue with the great war? 500 nords manage to fought and won the war against the snow elves, and Skyrim became the homeland of the Nords. What makes you think history will repeat itself? The Stormcloaks are already getting a lot of support, and Legate rikke can acknowledge it.


You underestimate the Thalmor.

And you're sadly underestimating Nords.

Spreading rumors? You think they're just talking badly? They have no reason to lie or slander Ulfric Stormcloak, they gain nothing by it. Speaking with Ulfric, cause he's going to come out and say "I power-hungry give me throne!"

Ulfric has no other choice but to fight for the thorne. He was obligated to do it for the love of his homeland. The Empire king wasn't doing a damn thing to what was going on in Skyrim. He was weak and couldn't even defend himself... how on earth can he defend all of Skyrim when he couldn't defend himself in battle?

The man started a Civil War, because he simply wouldn't ask his King to declare independence.

He started a war because he had to. The Thalmor put essentially put on a shock collar over the Empires neck, and as a result all of the provinces under the Empires rulings also had to suffer from the treaty that the Emperor had signed.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
Hammerfell is going to side with a province, who has more of a history of fluffing them over than Cyrodiil?

Hammwerfell is most likely going to side with Ulfric rather than the Imperial milk drinkers who surrenders so easily.


I feel the need to play history teacher here. The land that was going to the Dominion was already in Dominion hands by the time the White-Gold Concordant was signed. The Redguards got ticked that the Emperor would hand something that was not even under the control of the Redguards or Empire at the time. Mede had to "let them go" in order to keep the peace.

If I remember correctly, the resulting war in that area destroyed any possibility of being able to live there, making the fighting pointless.
 

NENALATA

Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
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Raijin said:
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DrunkenMage said:
Hammerfell is going to side with a province, who has more of a history of fluffing them over than Cyrodiil?​
Hammwerfell is most likely going to side with Ulfric rather than the Imperial milk drinkers who surrenders so easily.

I feel the need to play history teacher here. The land that was going to the Dominion was already in Dominion hands by the time the White-Gold Concordant was signed. The Redguards got ticked that the Emperor would hand something that was not even under the control of the Redguards or Empire at the time. Mede had to "let them go" in order to keep the peace.

If I remember correctly, the resulting war in that area destroyed any possibility of being able to live there, making the fighting pointless.


This is correct. Just like how the entire Empire turned their back on Talos, yet the Empire had fallen, got lost in the woods somewhere... so it didn't matter anyways. Keeping the Empire alive to come back one day with a Vengeance and set pl*ps right was more important to the Imperials, most important of all to the High King of Skyrim at the time. And I agree with them.

I remember back in the day... when I was first getting my start in Skyrim. My High Elf was killing Thalmor by the piles and doing odd jobs for Jarl B on the side. One day, I was on my way to visit the Jarl, opened the door and he and all his people attacked me. Ran to Windhelm. Listened to Ulfric for about 5 mins and while grateful for having a refuge to goto, I very quickly realized that Ulfric was in the wrong. In the wrong for what he said about the Jarl, even though he had just tried to kill me. :p

So eventually I went back to Whiterun and the guards had a talk with me about murdering people. Oops. My bad. :cool:

And from then on the Thalmor either attacked me or they became agitated and attacked me, either way they died. The Empire was ok with this, so was Jarl B. In fact, once I joined the Empire, the Whiterun Guards and others assisted me as well against the Thalmor when they would either attack me outright or during very bad, very one-sided conversation.

I learned everything I ever needed to know about the Empire and Jarl B and Ulfric from that experience.


LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE​
 

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