Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[ShangTsung]

List one? I did that before, but you ignored me..
Let me see if I can find it again... Ah there it is..


You don't find this insulting? Attacking people because they don't agree with you?.. I don't even know what to say to that...

..And I also don't understand why you keep saying that he makes stuff up.. Especially because several people here posted links and information that back up his arguments. But yeah, you just ignore those people and keep using that same argument again.. Everything he said so far was true and based on facts..

wow miss... you really have it in for me.. lol
1. i took a look at the links which were posted and didn't bother commenting on them cause they prove absolutely nothing and are mostly off topic random facts, they mine as well be posted links explaining that grass is green..
2. that was an observation not an insult, the fact that anyone would be so hardcore in admiring a group which according to their story wishes to ban a commonly practiced religion must have something against it in real life as well.. for example if somebody burned a cross in their neighbors yard because they were black would you not assume that person was racist?
3. at least you have good tastes in tv programs, i love House! one of my favorite shows, too bad they stopped making episodes..

 

[Anouck]

wow miss... you really have it in for me.. lol

Haha, I don't have a problem with you. I can sound a little rude now and then because I lack the English vocabulary to add nuances to my opinion.. We're cool.

2. that was an observation not an insult

Insults are always subjective and based on ones interpretation. I know you didn't intend to insult anyone but in my humble opinion a few things you said crossed the line

3. at least you have good tastes in tv programs, i love House! one of my favorite shows, too bad they stopped making episodes..

...And we totally agree here...
Hugh Laurie is a legend

 

[Dagmar]

Moving on to Ulfric himself, a lot of the points previously described can be applied to his so called "racism" as well. First, Ulfric did not segregate the Dunmer, the High King during the time of the Red Mountain exploding did.

http://www.uesp.net/...ree_of_Monument

The Decree of the Monument has nothing to do with the segregation of the Dunmer. The Decree of the Monument memorializes Skyrim's acceptance of the Dunmer during the Red Year and the High King's cession of Solstheim to the Dunmer to serve as a refuge for the Dunmer "untithed to any thane or hold, and self-governed, with free worship, with no compensation to Skyrim or the Empire." The whole argument in the forum post you're relying on is fundamentally flawed because an essential premise for it's support is false.

It also flies in the face of common sense and game content and instead of acknowledging the content it dismisses it entirely by making the hollow claim that prominent dialogue and overwhelming content is just a mistake. The Dunmer do pay taxes. Claiming they are self-governed requires one to be delusional. Self-governed and untaxed again refers to Solstheim.

This is also a total straw man as it is completely irrelevant to the undeniable fact that the Dunmer are only allowed to reside in the Gray Quarter under the laws of Windhelm, again supported by everything one observes in the game by content and dialogue. Racial apartheid, no matter how limited, is categorically racist. Ulfric didn't create the policy but as Jarl of Eastmarch and Windhelm he enforces it when he could just as easily repeal it. That is why it's existence is indicative of a racist aspect of Ulfric that is particular to him in the game. It's not an extremely oppressive form of racism as the Dunmer are otherwise free to work and roam throughout the city, but it's still racism. It would be better if players in denial concede this fact rather than engage in psuedo-intellectual acrobatics in a fruitless attempt to support fallow arguments to the contrary. They always fail because the facts speak for themselves.

....Also keep in mind that Ulfric says nothing racist or prejudiced, and there's no actual evidence of his racism or prejudice anywhere.

The former observation in no way supports the latter conclusion. Actions speak louder than words. As the Jarl of Windhelm it is by his act and will that the Dunmer are segregated to the Gray Quarter.

Another piece of evidence against Ulfric is "The Bear of Markarth". http://www.uesp.net/...ear_of_Markarth

First, this book, while obvious propaganda to make Ulfric look very bad is filled with holes.

It is not filled with holes and it is not propoganda. You're categorizing a lore document authored by a historical scholar that is not contradicted is only indicative of your bias. It is canon and lore and the fact that you and others don't like the insight it provides into Ulfric's character doesn't change that fact. It is certainly not contradicted by Tdroid's arguments. His arguments are no less convincing and no less flawed then the ones he made in this thread before he abandoned the cause. There is categorically nothing contradictory in what the Jarl Igmund says and what the Bear of Markarth says. That's a total fabrication on his part that for whatever reason went unchallenged. I have the entire dialogue paths for Igmund both from the CK and video. He clearly states that he and a faction of Nords promised free worship of Talos in the Hold in exchange for retaking it. The book states that Ulfric wouldn't yield the city to the Legion until they agreed as well which the Legion did because of the chaos within the city as more and more non-combatants were being executed with each day. There is no problem at all in reconciling the timeline of the book and the game dialogues. This is all a complete Ulfric fanboi fiction on Tdroid's part.

 

[Epic Keith]

Stormies better run....CUZ DAGMAR IS HERE!

 

[ShangTsung]

The Decree of the Monument has nothing to do with the segregation of the Dunmer. The Decree of the Monument memorializes Skyrim's acceptance of the Dunmer during the Red Year and the High King's cession of Solthsheim to the Dunmer to serve as a refuge for the Dunmer "untithed to any thane or hold, and self-governed, with free worship, with no compensation to Skyrim or the Empire." The whole argument in the forum post you're relying on is fundamentally flawed because of an essential premise for it's support is false.

It also flies in the face of common sense and game content and instead of acknowledging the content it dismisses it entirely by making the hollow claim that prominent dialogue and overwhelming content is just a mistake. The Dunmer do pay taxes. Claiming they are self-governed requires one to be delusional. Self-governed and untaxed again refers to Solsthheim.

This is also a total straw man as it is completely irrelevant to the undeniable fact that the Dunmer are only allowed to reside in the Gray Quarter under the laws of Windhelm, again supported by everything one observes in the game by content and dialogue. Racial apartheid, no matter how limited, is categorically racist. Ulfric didn't create the policy but as Jarl of Eastmarch and Windhelm he enforces it when he could just as easily repeal it. That is why it's existence is indicative of a racist aspect of Ulfric that is particular to him in the game. It's not an extremely oppressive form of racism as the Dunmer are otherwise free to work and roam throughout the city, but it's still racism. It would be better if players in denial concede this fact rather than engage in psuedo-intellectual acrobatics in a fruitless attempt to support fallow arguments to the contrary. They always fail because the facts speak for themselves.
The former observation in no way supports the latter conclusion. Actions speak louder than words. As the Jarl of Windhelm it is by his act and will that the Dunmer are segregated to the Gray Quarter.
It is not filled with holes and it is not propoganda. You're categorizing it an lore document authored by a historical scholar that is not contradicted is only indicative of your bias. It is canon and lore even and the fact that you and others may not like the insight it provides into Ulfric's character doesn't change that fact. It is certainly not contradicted by Tdroid's arguments. His arguments are no less convincing and no less flawed then the ones he made in this thread before he abandoned the cause. There is categorically nothing contradictory in what the Jarl Igmund says and what the Bear of Markarth says. That's a total fabrication on his part that for whatever reason went unchallenged. I have the entire dialogue paths for Igmund both from the CK and video. He clearly states that he and a faction of Nords promised free worship of Talos in the Hold in exchange for retaking it. The book states that Ulfric wouldn't yield the city to the Legion until they agreed as well which the Legion did because of the chaos within the city as more and more non-combatants were being executed with each day. There is no problem at all in reconciling the timeline of the book and the game dialogues. This is all a complete Ulfric fanboi fiction on Tdroid's part.

so let me get this strait.. Ulfric is the big bad villain cause he was tortured to the point of death by the thalmor? and cause he doesn't want his people to be their slaves? and cause he believes his people should be able to worship which ever gods they choose? and cause he chooses to fight, rather than bend to them like the imperials? so in a nut shell this is what yall are saying..
held captive against your will, physically and psychologically tortured and want justice? = BAD GUY
don't wish to be enslaved by an invading army? = BAD GUY
you want freedom of religion? = BAD GUY
you believe in fighting for your freedom instead of being a coward? = BAD GUY
seriously i could go on an on with this but hopefully you see what i'm getting at, my goodness! if this is truly what you all consider "evil" i'd hate to hear your real life political views.. and btw where can i find these books you speak of? i would very much like to read them myself.

 

[Dagmar]

so let me get this strait.. Ulfric is the big bad villain cause he was tortured to the point of death by the thalmor? and cause he doesn't want his people to be their slaves? and cause he believes his people should be able to worship which ever gods they choose? and cause he chooses to fight, rather than bend to them like the imperials? so in a nut shell this is what yall are saying..
held captive against your will, physically and psychologically tortured and want justice? = BAD GUY
don't wish to be enslaved by an invading army? = BAD GUY
you want freedom of religion? = BAD GUY
you believe in fighting for your freedom instead of being a coward? = BAD GUY
seriously i could go on an on with this but hopefully you see what i'm getting at, my goodness! if this is truly what you all consider "evil" i'd hate to hear your real life political views..

I fail to see the point of quoting my post since your post doesn't even address anything stated in it. I never stated anything about Ulfric being "the villain" of the game. I simply dispelled misinformation and misrepresentations about the game content and lore that was being posited to deny that he has aspects of his character that don't fit into a stereotypical paradigm of a protagonist. Whether that's a good thing or bad thing as far how one regards a fictitious character is up to each player to decide but anyone pretending that it's not there is arguably doing themselves a disservice by engaging in self-delusion.

and btw where can i find these books you speak of? i would very much like to read them myself.

You can find a copy inside Fellglow Keep on one of the bookshelves. There's also a copy on a bookshelf in Bloodlet Throne. Like many books, it also shows up sometimes in Urag gro-Shub's sales inventory in the Arcaneum at the College of Winterhold

 

[DrunkenMage]

Stormies better run....CUZ DAGMAR IS HERE!

Let them experience fear.

 

[ShangTsung]

Let them experience fear.

i fear no man.. or woman.

 

[ShangTsung]

I fail to see the point of quoting my post since your post doesn't even address anything stated in it. I never stated anything about Ulfric being "the villain" of the game. I simply dispelled misinformation and misrepresentations about the game content and lore that was being posited to deny that he has aspects of his character that don't fit into a stereotypical paradigm of a protagonist. Whether that's a good thing or bad thing as far how one regards a fictitious character is up to each player to decide but anyone pretending that it's not there is arguably doing themselves a disservice by engaging in self-delusion.

You can find a copy inside Fellglow Keep on one of the bookshelves. There's also a copy on a bookshelf in Bloodlet Throne. Like many books, it also shows up sometimes in Urag gro-Shub's sales inventory in the Arcaneum at the College of Winterhold

relax, i was just messin with the legion fanboys who obviously take this thing way too seriously and obsess over every post i make related to it.. its amusing to read their reactions.

 

[Delusional]

relax, i was just messin with the legion fanboys who obviously take this thing way too seriously and obsess over every post i make related to it.. its amusing to read their reactions.

So you're telling me...

Your entire position on this argument exists only to "mess with the legion fanboys", and responding to said "messing with legion fanboys" is "taking this thing way too seriously and obsessing over every post you make related to it"?





I believe this debate is concluded.

 

[ShangTsung]

So you're telling me...

Your entire position on this argument exists only to "mess with the legion fanboys", and responding to said "messing with legion fanboys" is "taking this thing way too seriously and obsessing over every post you make related to it"?





I believe this debate is concluded.

i was being mildly serious till all you imperial gang members verbally jumped me on here as if i'd commited some unforgivable crime by explaining why the legion is much worse than the stormcloaks, then once i realized how upset it made you guys that somebody would DARE to disagree with yall it just got funny to watch.. hell, look at you now! i rest my case.

 

[Delusional]

i was being mildly serious till all you imperial gang members verbally jumped me on here as if i'd commited some unforgivable crime by explaining why the legion is much worse than the stormcloaks, then once i realized how upset it made you guys that somebody would DARE to disagree with yall it just got funny to watch.. hell, look at you now! i rest my case.

Do you understand why "all us imperial hang members verbally jumped you as if you committed some unforgivable crime by explaining why the legion is much worse than the stormcloaks"?

Because we have lore evidence as to why you are wrong, and prefer to defend our position rather than have it torn apart by fantasy argumentative points and made-up lore.

 

[ShangTsung]

Do you understand why "all us imperial hang members verbally jumped you as if you committed some unforgivable crime by explaining why the legion is much worse than the stormcloaks"?

Because we have lore evidence as to why you are wrong, and prefer to defend our position rather than have it torn apart by fantasy argumentative points and made-up lore.

if thats the case then why do yall avoid every fact i list? and theirs no actual story truth to this "lore" to back up your made up bs, wtf is that anyway? nvm.. i've been playing this game for years and can't understand for the life of me where yall are getting this nonsense from but whatever m8.. you prefer to be with the imperials on this game which is perfectly fine! but just cause thats your preference doesn't mean everyone else who prefers a different approach is horribly wrong and should be shunned ffs! i prefer to get my facts from the actual "game" so.. good luck with your "lore" whatever that is.. lol

 

[Delusional]

if thats the case then why do yall avoid every fact i list? and theirs no actual story truth to this "lore" to back up your made up bs, wtf is that anyway? nvm.. i've been playing this game for years and can't understand for the life of me where yall are getting this nonsense from but whatever m8.. you prefer to be with the imperials on this game which is perfectly fine! but just cause thats your preference doesn't mean everyone else who prefers a different approach is horribly wrong and should be shunned ffs! i prefer to get my facts from the actual "game" so.. good luck with your "lore" whatever that is.. lol

Do you reside in a fantasy world where direct links to lore on Elder Scrolls wikis are "bs lore"?

In fact, YOUR lore that YOU use to back up YOUR side is the lore that is hardly supportable. We do not "avoid every fact you list", we simply use real, tangible evidence to attempt to help you understand that your "sources" are false.

 

[ShangTsung]

Do you reside in a fantasy world where direct links to lore on Elder Scrolls wikis are "bs lore"?

In fact, YOUR lore that YOU use to back up YOUR side is the lore that is hardly supportable. We do not "avoid every fact you list", we simply use real, tangible evidence to attempt to help you understand that your "sources" are false.

*face palm* my sources which come from the game itself are wrong? lmao.. bro i am trying soooooo hard right now not to insult you but you are making it VERY hard to resist..
ok, lets try this again, now pay attention..
you say Ulfric and the stormies are big mean baddies, this is total bs for several reasons..
1. Ulfric was tortured to near death by the thalmor, the same thalmor your imperials are puppets to, evidence of this can be found at the embassy in the "diplomatic immunity" quest, who wouldn't be pissed after a traumatizing event like that? Ulfric is merely a victim and longs for justice, see.. if you read some of those books and journals instead of just collecting them to continue the quest you can learn key points to the story and get an understanding of who's right and who's wrong.
2. your imperials wish to ban the common religious practices in skyrim, "it even says this on the loading screen sometimes ffs!" so by calling them the "honorable hero's" in all of this you're basically saying that freedom of religion is wrong and shouldn't be allowed.. shame on you!
3. the stormcloaks follow Ulfric because his motives are there own, they wish to "fight back" at the thalmor who wish to conquer all of skyrim and make slaves of all nords, and that is also why they're at war with your precious legion, because the imperial army "unlike the stormies" are cowards who would rather take it in the pooper than risk an all out war with the thalmor, you don't even have to search hard it talks about this all throughout the game.. and if that means Ulfric being high king so be it! every army needs a king, its a requirement, and why not the very man who was kidnapped and so brutally victimized by the thalmor?
4. you damn right Ulfric murdered the previous high king! he was yet another thalmor puppet who needed to be removed from power before all of skyrim became thalmor ruled territory, in fact you could even say that by doing this Ulfric was trying to PREVENT the war before it started, afterall why do you think he was given the ability to shout? that gift is not freely given to just anyone.. and if the legion are such "do gooders" why was nobody in their army entrusted with such an ability? sure there are dragonborn like Miraak who use the ability for their own personal gain and become corrupted but IN THE BEGINING they are entrusted because their motives are pure.
5. the stormcloaks are NOT racist ffs! this is the simplest to debunk, if it were so then why is windhelm full of elves? and don't give me the excuse about how "they treat them badly" an all that shiz cause they do the same damn thing in imperial cities.. when Galmor stone fist used the phrase "pointy eared bastards" he was talking about the thalmor ffs!! and after all the pain they've caused in the land how the hell could you blame anyone for hating them!!?? thats like saying sadaam hussain and the taliban shouldn't be hated!! jeez man, make sense!
now if this doesn't at least turn on a few lightbulbs i give up.

 

[Delusional]

1. Ulfric was tortured to near death by the thalmor, the same thalmor your imperials are puppets to, evidence of this can be found at the embassy in the "diplomatic immunity" quest, who wouldn't be pissed after a traumatizing event like that? Ulfric is merely a victim and longs for justice, see.. if you read some of those books and journals instead of just collecting them to continue the quest you can learn key points to the story and get an understanding of who's right and who's wrong.

Ulfric was tortured, yes. There is no denying that fact, I agree. However, how does that irrelevant fact justify a rebellion against the Empire, thus distracting the Empire against the real threat of the Dominion? He was a victim, and wanted justice... so he attacks the people NOT responsible for his torture? And how does that help your case against the Empire again? If he really wanted justice, he would find a way to bring the fight to those who actually tortured him (which would be the Thalmor, in case you forgot), and the only sensible way to do such is join with the Empire as a combined force, increasing Empire strength that is necessary to defeat the Aldmeri Dominion.

2. your imperials wish to ban the common religious practices in skyrim, "it even says this on the loading screen sometimes ffs!" so by calling them the "honorable hero's" in all of this you're basically saying that freedom of religion is wrong and shouldn't be allowed.. shame on you!

Have you ever heard of the Great War or the White-Gold Concordant? If you have heard of either of them, you would realize how ridiculous you sound. The Empire was not to blame for the outlaw on Talos worship. The Empire was forced to sign the treaty that outlawed the worship of Talos. The Empire did not willingly outlaw Talos, for heavens sake, he founded the Empire, but rather, they were forced to sign the treaty. We do not wish to ban any common religious practices, in fact, the Empire did not enforce the Talos ban in Skyrim until your boyfriend Ulfric agitated the entire situation, and gave the Thalmor reason to start enforcing it, and gave the Thalmor reason to start forcing the Empire to enforce it. It is simple really, if you read the lore.

3. the stormcloaks follow Ulfric because his motives are there own, they wish to "fight back" at the thalmor who wish to conquer all of skyrim and make slaves of all nords, and that is also why they're at war with your precious legion, because the imperial army "unlike the stormies" are cowards who would rather take it in the pooper than risk an all out war with the thalmor, you don't even have to search hard it talks about this all throughout the game.. and if that means Ulfric being high king so be it! every army needs a king, its a requirement, and why not the very man who was kidnapped and so brutally victimized by the thalmor?

Once again, heard of the Great War?

The Empire would be taking the fight to the Dominion if it didn't have to first deal with your silly rebellion. If you had any sense, you would realize that if Skyrim really becomes independent, you have just successfully ceded yourself to the Dominion. Being a part of the Empire is the only way that Skyrim can hope to "fight back at the thalmor". A house divided will only fall, I believe that is an accurate way to state this. The only way to defeat the Dominion is to unite as one, and rebelling against the only force united in Tamriel that opposes the Dominion sure seems counter-productive.

4. you damn right Ulfric murdered the previous high king! he was yet another thalmor puppet who needed to be removed from power before all of skyrim became thalmor ruled territory, in fact you could even say that by doing this Ulfric was trying to PREVENT the war before it started, afterall why do you think he was given the ability to shout? that gift is not freely given to just anyone.. and if the legion are such "do gooders" why was nobody in their army entrusted with such an ability? sure there are dragonborn like Miraak who use the ability for their own personal gain and become corrupted but IN THE BEGINING they are entrusted because their motives are pure.

Hold on, let me pull up some Torygg and Ulfric lore, considering you've probably never even looked at it.

Torygg a puppet of the Dominion? Alright, next joke. "Sybille Stentor even stated that he might have stood up against the Empire if Ulfric had asked him to [1]." (citation - elderscrolls.wikia.com) What was that about using the game as your evidence? Torygg respected Ulfric, and had Ulfric asked him for Skyrim's independence, he would have agreed, and it would have happened. That is complete fantasy, stating that Torygg is a Thalmor puppet... Ulfric did not 'prevent' any war by killing Torygg, he started it. If he would have sat down and talked with the High King, then Skyrim would have been able to secede from the Empire, without a silly rebellion. He wanted the throne, simple as that, even if Torygg would have withdrawn from the Empire without bloodshed.

Ulfric learned the Way of the Voice, which, if you didn't know, is the peaceful use of the Voice to praise Kynareth for their gift. However, Ulfric forsake that 'gift' by using it in ways that did not follow the Way of the Voice. It is completely ridiculous to claim that the Stormcloaks are better simply because their leader has the gift of the Voice and the Empire does not. The worth of an army is most definitely not based on if their leader has the power of the Voice. That's just ignorant. Besides, Ulfric is not worthy of knowing the Voice anyways, considering that he disregards the Way and uses it for personal gain.

5. the stormcloaks are NOT racist ffs! this is the simplest to debunk, if it were so then why is windhelm full of elves? and don't give me the excuse about how "they treat them badly" an all that shiz cause they do the same damn thing in imperial cities.. when Galmor stone fist used the phrase "pointy eared bastards" he was talking about the thalmor ffs!! and after all the pain they've caused in the land how the hell could you blame anyone for hating them!!?? thats like saying sadaam hussain and the taliban shouldn't be hated!! jeez man, make sense!
now if this doesn't at least turn on a few lightbulbs i give up.

Their leader is blatantly racist, by continuing to leave the Dunmer confined to the Grey Quarter, and continuing to leave the Argonians out on the docks, and continuing to only care about issues with Nords. Ulfric is racist. Did I ever say the entirety of the Stormcloak rebellion is racist? No, I did not, in fact. But it should be understood that by having a racist leader, it is very likely that the ideals and beliefs of said leader would have rubbed off onto their followers. Otherwise, why would they follow him, if they did not share values, ideals or beliefs?

 

[Zodiac Killer]

Ulfric was tortured, yes. There is no denying that fact, I agree. However, how does that irrelevant fact justify a rebellion against the Empire, thus distracting the Empire against the real threat of the Dominion? He was a victim, and wanted justice... so he attacks the people NOT responsible for his torture? And how does that help your case against the Empire again? If he really wanted justice, he would find a way to bring the fight to those who actually tortured him (which would be the Thalmor, in case you forgot), and the only sensible way to do such is join with the Empire as a combined force, increasing Empire strength that is necessary to defeat the Aldmeri Dominion.



Have you ever heard of the Great War or the White-Gold Concordant? If you have heard of either of them, you would realize how ridiculous you sound. The Empire was not to blame for the outlaw on Talos worship. The Empire was forced to sign the treaty that outlawed the worship of Talos. The Empire did not willingly outlaw Talos, for heavens sake, he founded the Empire, but rather, they were forced to sign the treaty. We do not wish to ban any common religious practices, in fact, the Empire did not enforce the Talos ban in Skyrim until your boyfriend Ulfric agitated the entire situation, and gave the Thalmor reason to start enforcing it, and gave the Thalmor reason to start forcing the Empire to enforce it. It is simple really, if you read the lore.



Once again, heard of the Great War?

The Empire would be taking the fight to the Dominion if it didn't have to first deal with your silly rebellion. If you had any sense, you would realize that if Skyrim really becomes independent, you have just successfully ceded yourself to the Dominion. Being a part of the Empire is the only way that Skyrim can hope to "fight back at the thalmor". A house divided will only fall, I believe that is an accurate way to state this. The only way to defeat the Dominion is to unite as one, and rebelling against the only force united in Tamriel that opposes the Dominion sure seems counter-productive.



Hold on, let me pull up some Torygg and Ulfric lore, considering you've probably never even looked at it.

Torygg a puppet of the Dominion? Alright, next joke. "Sybille Stentor even stated that he might have stood up against the Empire if Ulfric had asked him to [1]." (citation - elderscrolls.wikia.com) What was that about using the game as your evidence? Torygg respected Ulfric, and had Ulfric asked him for Skyrim's independence, he would have agreed, and it would have happened. That is complete fantasy, stating that Torygg is a Thalmor puppet... Ulfric did not 'prevent' any war by killing Torygg, he started it. If he would have sat down and talked with the High King, then Skyrim would have been able to secede from the Empire, without a silly rebellion. He wanted the throne, simple as that, even if Torygg would have withdrawn from the Empire without bloodshed.

Ulfric learned the Way of the Voice, which, if you didn't know, is the peaceful use of the Voice to praise Kynareth for their gift. However, Ulfric forsake that 'gift' by using it in ways that did not follow the Way of the Voice. It is completely ridiculous to claim that the Stormcloaks are better simply because their leader has the gift of the Voice and the Empire does not. The worth of an army is most definitely based on if their leader has the power of the Voice. That's just ignorant. Besides, Ulfric is not worthy of knowing the Voice anyways, considering that he disregards the Way and uses it for personal gain.



Their leader is blatantly racist, by continuing to leave the Dunmer confined to the Grey Quarter, and continuing to leave the Argonians out on the docks, and continuing to only care about issues with Nords. Ulfric is racist. Did I ever say the entirety of the Stormcloak rebellion is racist? No, I did not, in fact. But it should be understood that by having a racist leader, it is very likely that the ideals and beliefs of said leader would have rubbed off onto their followers. Otherwise, why would they follow him, if they did not share values, ideals or beliefs?

You sir, deserve a medal. Alas, I cannot do such a thing, instead I give you Reputation points. Just goes to show you need to know the facts before you go flapping your jaws about topics you know nothing about.

 

[Epic Keith]

i fear no man.. or woman.

Not yet.....

 

[Epic Keith]

*face palm* my sources which come from the game itself are wrong? lmao.. bro i am trying soooooo hard right now not to insult you but you are making it VERY hard to resist..
ok, lets try this again, now pay attention..
you say Ulfric and the stormies are big mean baddies, this is total bs for several reasons..

1. Ulfric was tortured to near death by the thalmor, the same thalmor your imperials are puppets to, evidence of this can be found at the embassy in the "diplomatic immunity" quest, who wouldn't be pissed after a traumatizing event like that? Ulfric is merely a victim and longs for justice, see.. if you read some of those books and journals instead of just collecting them to continue the quest you can learn key points to the story and get an understanding of who's right and who's wrong.

2. your imperials wish to ban the common religious practices in skyrim, "it even says this on the loading screen sometimes ffs!" so by calling them the "honorable hero's" in all of this you're basically saying that freedom of religion is wrong and shouldn't be allowed.. shame on you!

3. the stormcloaks follow Ulfric because his motives are there own, they wish to "fight back" at the thalmor who wish to conquer all of skyrim and make slaves of all nords, and that is also why they're at war with your precious legion, because the imperial army "unlike the stormies" are cowards who would rather take it in the pooper than risk an all out war with the thalmor, you don't even have to search hard it talks about this all throughout the game.. and if that means Ulfric being high king so be it! every army needs a king, its a requirement, and why not the very man who was kidnapped and so brutally victimized by the thalmor?

4. you damn right Ulfric murdered the previous high king! he was yet another thalmor puppet who needed to be removed from power before all of skyrim became thalmor ruled territory, in fact you could even say that by doing this Ulfric was trying to PREVENT the war before it started, afterall why do you think he was given the ability to shout? that gift is not freely given to just anyone.. and if the legion are such "do gooders" why was nobody in their army entrusted with such an ability? sure there are dragonborn like Miraak who use the ability for their own personal gain and become corrupted but IN THE BEGINING they are entrusted because their motives are pure.

5. the stormcloaks are NOT racist ffs! this is the simplest to debunk, if it were so then why is windhelm full of elves? and don't give me the excuse about how "they treat them badly" an all that shiz cause they do the same damn thing in imperial cities.. when Galmor stone fist used the phrase "pointy eared bastards" he was talking about the thalmor ffs!! and after all the pain they've caused in the land how the hell could you blame anyone for hating them!!?? thats like saying sadaam hussain and the taliban shouldn't be hated!! jeez man, make sense!
now if this doesn't at least turn on a few lightbulbs i give up.

OH GOD!!!!

Everyone forgive me but I have to go full caps

THE EMPIRE HAD NO FLUFFING CHOICE!! THEY HAD TO BAN THE WORSHIP OF TALOS!! DO YOU EVEN KNOW HOW WEAKENED THE EMPIRE WERE IN THE GREAT WAR? IF THEY DIDN'T ACCEPT THE WGC THEN WE WOULD HAVE ELVES ANYWAYS. I SEE YOU LIKE TO LIVE AS A SLAVE IN SKYRIM THAN A FREE NORD WHO CAN'T WORSHIP ONE GOD! BESIDES EVERYONE WAS ALREADY WORSHIPING TALOS DESPITE THE CONCORDAT. "We didn't pay much attention to it as a child. Everyone still has their own shrine to Talos. Until Ulfric and his 'sons of skyrim' came along" EVER SINCE ULFRIC CAME THE THALMOR HAS BEEN MORE ACTIVE BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE WORSHIPING MORE OPENLY!

I SAY HE GOT TORTURED THAN IT WAS GOOD WORK. BEFORE ULFRIC WAS TORTURED HE MURDERED EVERY MAN WOMAN AND CHILD CAPABLE OF HOLDING A WEAPON IN MARKARTH. WHY? BECAUSE "THEY WERE AGAINST SKYRIM". HAVE YOU READ THE BEAR OF MARKARTH?

Every official who worked for the Forsworn was put to the sword, even after they had surrendered. Native women were tortured to give up the names of Forsworn fighters who had fled the city or were in the hills of the Reach. Anyone who lived in the city, Forsworn and Nord alike, were executed if they had not fought with Ulfric and his men when they breached the gates. "You are with us, or you are against Skyrim" was the message on Ulfric's lips as he ordered the deaths of shopkeepers, farmers, the elderly, and any child old enough to lift a sword that had failed in the call to fight with him.

THIS IS THE SKYRIM YOU WANT? WHERE WOMEN ARE TORTURED AND TEENAGERS ARE KILLED FOR NO REASON?

LEGION ARE COWARDS? LET'S SEE ULFRIC AND HIS PALS MARCH RIGHT INTO VALENWOOD AND GET SLAUGHTERED. A GUERRILLA FORCE CAN NEVER BEAT THE ARMY. SINCE IT IS KNOWN YOU KNOW NOTHING OF THE GREAT WAR THEN THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO FOR YOU. YOU WILL SIMPLY SAY, "Herp Derp that is bs"

YOU DON'T KNOW THE MIGHT OF THE DOMINION.

ULFRIC BROKE KYNARETH'S HOLY CODE. HE USED THE THUÚM WHEN HE CANNOT. LOOK WHAT HAPPENED TO PREVIOUS USERS OF THUÚM. THE NORD ARMY RECKLESSLY USED IT WHEN THEY INVADED MORROWIND AND KYNE PUNISHED THEM BY GIVING THEM DEFEAT. TALOS ALSO MISUSED IT AND HIS THROAT WAS SLIT.

AND NOW YOU JUST CONFESSED ULFRIC MURDERED A YOUNG MAN. YOU MIND IS VERY SCREWED. NOW HE IS GUILTY OF TREASON AND MURDER! THE ONLY PUPPET HERE IS ULFRIC. YOU SHOULD READ THE DOSSIER BUT YOU IGNORED IT TWICE.

AND YET YOU ARE GOING TO IGNORE MY ARGUMENT ONCE MORE. GO INTO THE GREY QUARTER AND SEE THE BAD CONDITIONS. NORDS ARE ABUSING ELVES AND THE ELVES ARE BEING OPPRESSED. WE LEGIONNAIRES FIGHT FOR RACIAL EQUALITY. PLEASE NAME ONE IMPERIAL CITY WHERE WE ARE SLANDERING ELVES AND GIVING THEM HORRIBLE LIVING CONDITIONS? EVERY SINGLE ARGUMENT OF YOURS IS WEAK AND WHEN WE COUNTER IT YOU GIVE AN EXCUSE THAT WE ARE HOPELESS. THE ONLY HOPELESS ONE HERE IS YOU.

Phew!

 

[Delusional]

Sweet mother of Talos, Keith, calm yourself...