Politics, Politics, Politics

[Medea]

You mention that guns are also needed so that people can overthrow the government if needed. You see, that's what I'm actually worried about. Like I said, I don't know much about America, but here in Australia we have a system that is in no way perfect but is reasonably fair, and anyone who works hard can make a good life here and live freely. However there is a dark underbelly of far right-wing nutters, not unlike Timothy McVeigh, who would overthrow the government if they had the chance. I'm glad they do not have the opportunity to do this with legally purchasing firearms. And thankfully due to our constitution and our democratic system that goes beyond just two parties, it is extremely unlikely that any government would get so oppressive as to warrant a violent revolution. Our founding fathers, while not as famous as yours, they knew that the pen is mightier than the sword and wrote in checks and balances that allowed it to be this way.

Well, the U.S. isn't nearly bad enough to actually think about overthrowing the government yet. I like living here, and many people, especially the "right-wing nutters" as you said, try to make the government look drastically worse than it actually is. They actually call Obama a socialist, a fascist, a communist, a Muslim extremist, and anything else they can get away with. They even compare him to Hitler. If Obama was anything like Hitler, or Stalin, or Chairman Mao, or Kim Jong-il, he would have all of those people dragged out in the streets and executed, or imprisoned, for speaking out against him.

What I'm worried about, is losing our rights one-by-one. Once you start taking away people's rights, and know you can get away with it, the domino effect begins. I'm also worried about what the U.S. would look like in a few years after right-wing extremists managed to take over the government. We can't let that happen.

I don't know much about European and Australian politics, but the right-wingers here hate all of your governments. They claim that you all live in horrible, socialist countries where the government controls every aspect of your lives. They've actually turned the word "socialist" into a bad word and an insult to left-wingers. I'm not making this up. I was talking to a German friend of mine once, and he says that the U.S. Democratic party would actually be considered conservatives in Europe, while the Republicans would be considered fascists on the verge of Nazism.

 

[theoperation]

Well, the U.S. isn't nearly bad enough to actually think about overthrowing the government yet. I like living here, and many people, especially the "right-wing nutters" as you said, try to make the government look drastically worse than it actually is. They actually call Obama a socialist, a fascist, a communist, a Muslim extremist, and anything else they can get away with. They even compare him to Hitler. If Obama was anything like Hitler, or Stalin, or Chairman Mao, or Kim Jong-il, he would have all of those people dragged out in the streets and executed, or imprisoned, for speaking out against him.

What I'm worried about, is losing our rights one-by-one. Once you start taking away people's rights, and know you can get away with it, the domino effect begins. I'm also worried about what the U.S. would look like in a few years after right-wing extremists managed to take over the government. We can't let that happen.

I don't know much about European and Australian politics, but the right-wingers here hate all of your governments. They claim that you all live in horrible, socialist countries where the government controls every aspect of your lives. They've actually turned the word "socialist" into a bad word and an insult to left-wingers. I'm not making this up. I was talking to a German friend of mine once, and he says that the U.S. Democratic party would actually be considered conservatives in Europe, while the Republicans would be considered fascists on the verge of Nazism.

Whatever the right-wingers of your country claim, they're wrong. My American house-mate was actually surprised at all the freedoms here that you don't have in America. The government controls little aspects of our lives, the biggest impact is actually the help they deliver in the form of health-care and welfare for the disadvantaged. While our government is far from perfect they at least strive to help all Australians, not try to create class divides.

I also think rights are precious and should not be taken away. I guess where I disagree with you is whether or not owning firearms should be a right. I think they're far too dangerous to be considered a right, and should only be in the hands of law enforcement, who themselves should have laws against when they can be used. (Again, I'm not talking about hunting firearms for use against animals, only high-powered guns for use against humans.)

And I'm confused as to how Obama is called a Muslim extremist. How do they get away with it, when I was sure he was a big Christian. That's like calling me an Xbox fanboy. (BTW, I've never owned any Xbox console in my life). I'm not anti-Xbox but I suppose Obama is not anti-Muslim, and they must have this "you're with us or against us" mentaility.

 

[Mjoll Abuser]

Whatever the right-wingers of your country claim, they're wrong. My American house-mate was actually surprised at all the freedoms here that you don't have in America. The government controls little aspects of our lives, the biggest impact is actually the help they deliver in the form of health-care and welfare for the disadvantaged. While our government is far from perfect they at least strive to help all Australians, not try to create class divides.
.

That is just the thing though...the government is not there to babysit you and give you hand outs. At least that is not what my country (United States) was founded for. I hold traditional American values and I feel ALL people have both the opportunity and responsibility to better their lives by their own hard work. I work my butt off doing hard landscaping labor and I make very little. Guess what? I NEVER complain that my government should give me free stuff. I work hard and make my living and that is enough for me.

 

[Medea]

And I'm confused as to how Obama is called a Muslim extremist. How do they get away with it, when I was sure he was a big Christian. That's like calling me an Xbox fanboy. (BTW, I've never owned any Xbox console in my life). I'm not anti-Xbox but I suppose Obama is not anti-Muslim, and they must have this "you're with us or against us" mentaility.

They get away with it because our media/press has the right to free speech, even to the point where they can outright lie. You're not allowed to slander individuals in the U.S., but public figures (including celebrities, politicians, and the President) are fair game. Some would say our media is too free to say anything they want. I think the main problem is there are many gullible Americans that actually believe many of the outrageous things they say. Mitt Romney's (the Republican candidate for president) campaign ACTUALLY SAID THIS IN AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT this year: "We will not allow our campaign to be dictated by fact-checkers." This has got to be one of the worst examples of how the tide is turning in this country, not to mention it's a fluffing joke!

I might catch a lot of plops for saying this but it's true: Most foreigners are more well-informed than Americans when it comes to politics. The main reason is that your media isn't allowed to blatantly lie to the public. While they probably still "obscure the truth" or "don't tell the whole truth", they can't get away with lying. And foreign people in civilized countries aren't as ignorant of politics as people here. Again, it's mainly because they've been lied to for so long they don't know the truth from the lies.

Another reason our media corporations get away with this without getting sued is because of our broken justice system. A multi-billion dollar company like Fox News is so powerful, they will just get court dates extended until an individual bankrupts themselves from court costs. Therefore, they are rarely successfully sued. In our country, poor people go to jail for minor offenses and the rich buy their way out of prison. If they do go to jail, they almost always get the best lawyers money can buy and get their sentences reduced, and they get to go to white-collar resort jails instead of federal penitentiaries like everyone else.

Not to mention that under our laws, corporations are considered "people". Yes, they can actually be considered individuals under our "justice" system. This means that many class-action law suits can be thrown out of court, because it's not considered "fair" for multiple people to gang up on an "individual" in a law suit.

The U.S. is slowly turning away from a Democracy and becoming a Plutocracy, where everything is designed to benefit the rich over all others. And no matter what anyone says, it's the right-wing media and Republican extremists that are trying to make it happen. They say Obama has been ineffective as President, but they block everything he tries to do to make things better for our poor and middle-class. So they are the actual reason nothing is getting done. I don't hate republicans, but the right-wing extremists among them are hijacking the party and forcing everyone that doesn't agree with them down the line on everything to be ostracized.

 

[theoperation]

That is just the thing though...the government is not there to babysit you and give you hand outs. At least that is not what my country (United States) was founded for. I hold traditional American values and I feel ALL people have both the opportunity and responsibility to better their lives by their own hard work. I work my butt off doing hard landscaping labor and I make very little. Guess what? I NEVER complain that my government should give me free stuff. I work hard and make my living and that is enough for me.

I agree, the government shouldn't give handouts to those who don't need it. I was talking about assistance to those who need it, and my housemate believes that America doesn't do this as well as Australia does, especially when it comes to health care. I commend you that you want to work hard and make your own way, it's an honourable attitude. I'm not trying to criticise the way your welfare systems are set up as I don't really know, it's just from what I've heard by other Americans is that the poor are not given a fair opportunity to better their lives, and also that the rich actually seem to have more handed out to them than the poor, for example the giant bank bail-outs in 2009.

 

[theoperation]

They get away with it because our media/press has the right to free speech, even to the point where they can outright lie. You're not allowed to slander individuals in the U.S., but public figures (including celebrities, politicians, and the President) are fair game. Some would say our media is too free to say anything they want. I think the main problem is there are many gullible Americans that actually believe many of the outrageous things they say. Mitt Romney's (the Republican candidate for president) campaign ACTUALLY SAID THIS IN AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT this year: "We will not allow our campaign to be dictated by fact-checkers." This has got to be one of the worst examples of how the tide is turning in this country, not to mention it's a f***ing joke!

I might catch a lot of pl*** for saying this but it's true: Most foreigners are more well-informed than Americans when it comes to politics. The main reason is that your media isn't allowed to blatantly lie to the public. While they probably still "obscure the truth" or "don't tell the whole truth", they can't get away with lying. And foreign people in civilized countries aren't as ignorant of politics as people here. Again, it's mainly because they've been lied to for so long they don't know the truth from the lies.

Another reason our media corporations get away with this without getting sued is because of our broken justice system. A multi-billion dollar company like Fox News is so powerful, they will just get court dates extended until an individual bankrupts themselves from court costs. Therefore, they are rarely successfully sued. In our country, poor people go to jail for minor offenses and the rich buy their way out of prison. If they do go to jail, they almost always get the best lawyers money can buy and get their sentences reduced, and they get to go to white-collar resort jails instead of federal penitentiaries like everyone else.

Not to mention that under our laws, corporations are considered "people". Yes, they can actually be considered individuals under our "justice" system. This means that many class-action law suits can be thrown out of court, because it's not considered "fair" for multiple people to gang up on an "individual" in a law suit.

The U.S. is slowly turning away from a Democracy and becoming a Plutocracy, where everything is designed to benefit the rich over all others. And no matter what anyone says, it's the right-wing media and Republican extremists that are trying to make it happen. They say Obama has been ineffective as President, but they block everything he tries to do to make things better for our poor and middle-class. So they are the actual reason nothing is getting done. I don't hate republicans, but the right-wing extremists among them are hijacking the party and forcing everyone that doesn't agree with them down the line on everything to be ostracized.

haha, Mitt Romney sounds like our conservate opposition leader Tony Abbott. I guess some things are universal accross all countries.

I might be one of the few foreigners who knows little about US politics. It's pretty much limited to whatever my housemate tells me, whatever I read on the internet (which isn't much as most internet adventures are either study-related or video-game related). I know that Barrack Obama is a left-leaning politician who can drain a 3-pointer and looks damn good in a suit, and Mitt Romney is a smug-looking Mormon, and Mormons are the annoying religion who knocks on your door early on Saturday morning when you've spent the last night drinking 20 bottles of Black-Briar mead till 5 am. I don't think you need to worry about Obama losing .

The same applies here, where corporations are treated as individuals. I've only studied first-year university level Business Law so I'm no expert, but the main purpose for this was to separate the shareholders from the company, so if the company broke the law or wound up bankrupt, the shareholders would only have to pay back their share of the company, not money that belongs to them. It also was supposed to make a company sue-able, as before these laws if you were wronged by a company it was very hard to get recompense because responsibilty was hard to trace. It was really designed to help shareholders and consumers. Problem is, it's gone out of control for reasons you said. Since the spirit of the law is supposed to be fairness and justice, perhaps a change of law is in order?

 

[Medea]

I don't think you need to worry about Obama losing

I hope not. Recent polls suggest that if everyone in the country actually voted, Obama would get over 50% of the votes and Romney would get 44%. However, among likely voters (the people that ACTUALLY go out and vote every election) the race is a dead heat at 49% for Obama and 48% for Romney. I think the main reason it's so close is because many of our potential young voters don't care enough to actually vote, and most of them would vote for Obama. Wish us luck, mate.

 

[Pingu]

People that don't vote because they're either uninformed or lazy... I just can't fathom why you wouldn't take the right to vote seriously. It is part of your freedom and rights, and all over the world people are dying as I'm typing this to attain that freedom for themselves and the coming generations. What the hell do they think the civil war in Syria is about? A cheese sandwich?

 

[The_Madgod]

Wait, is everyone forgetting about Sheogoraths 0.000000001 percent of voters? He's running under the insane ticket.

 

[theoperation]

I hope not. Recent polls suggest that if everyone in the country actually voted, Obama would get over 50% of the votes and Romney would get 44%. However, among likely voters (the people that ACTUALLY go out and vote every election) the race is a dead heat at 49% for Obama and 48% for Romney. I think the main reason it's so close is because many of our potential young voters don't care enough to actually vote, and most of them would vote for Obama. Wish us luck, mate.

I keep forgetting that voting is not compulsory in America. Many people are surprised to find out that voting is compulsory in Australia. I'd vote even if it weren't compulsory though, as I want at least some say as to who should represent my local area in the house of parliament. I don't get the mentality of not voting, especially the ones who do not vote then complain about the government.

And good luck!

 

[The_Madgod]

I pride myself in caring about politics much more than most people in college, and I think it is despicable that anyone would not vote, especially if they complain about it afterwards. As for gun control, I'm torn. There is a lot of swaying evidence on both sides. My parents were both for gun control, and I've mostly adopted their ideals, though there are quite a few benefits for owning guns. I also believe that people should have lots of personal freedom, which includes firearms. You have to remember, though, that most criminals may buy guns illegaly, but who's to say the people that sold them the guns didn't buy them legally? As for Sheogoraths standpoint, he believes all guns should be built so that they fire fish. The world would be a much safer and more interesting place.

 

[Mjoll Abuser]

Wait, is everyone forgetting about Sheogoraths 0.000000001 percent of voters? He's running under the insane ticket.

He has my vote. Obama and Romney's flip-flopping make Sheogorath's record look steady and logical.

 

[Soloquendi]

"When nothing is owed, deserved, or expected.
Your life doesn't change by the man that's elected.
If you're loved by someone, you're never rejected.
So decide what to be and go be it."
- Head Full of Doubt, Road Full of Promise
The Avett Brothers

 

[Medea]

I like how the Republicans have gone from calling Obama's vision a "socialist regime" to an "entitlement society." I guess calling people socialist doesn't have the pop it used to.

It's funny how they think we are all lazy bums just waiting for a hand-out when the ones who are REALLY entitled are the wealthy. No matter how hard you work in the U.S., you're more likely to be struck and killed by lightning or eaten by sharks than to ever become rich. Most of the wealthy in the U.S. are born into money. They inherit what they have. People who ACTUALLY built this country's spoiled little brat children get everything handed to them, and then they scream and cry when someone suggests they pay the same tax rates as everyone else. Romney puts his money into off-shore accounts to avoid paying taxes. Talk about entitled....

This "let them eat cake" attitude got heads put on pikes before, and if the rich want to keep suggesting that class warfare is on the horizon, I suggest we humor them.

 

[Pingu]

One of my favorite illustrators, Han Hoogerbrugge, posts a short cartoon every day of current events. Here's todays entry; a summary of Mitt Romneys speech.

Hur!

 

[Crooksin]

Being Canadian, I think we hear about American politics more than any other country in the world and A LOT of my online friends are American. Even if you do not like America as a country, you should be at least a little informed because they are the sole major superpower in the world today and are the unofficial leader of Democratic nations.

From what I have seen, Mitt Romney is a joke. He is that stereotypical American you see who is ignorant to everything but his own ambitions and greed, just with a better smile. I think it would be a grand mistake to elect him and America's international reputation would degrade even farther than it already has, amongst many other things. I've seen a video where he was at a restaurant going around to everybody and introducing himself, doing what politicians do and trying to win them over with a brief conversation. He came to a table with two gay men, one being a Vietnam war vet who asked him why his partner isn't entitled to his benefits or pension. Mitt Romney blatantly told him that marriage is between a man and a woman only, and he doesn't think the gay couple should be entitled to anything a straight couple would be. A country with as much power as America has does not need ignorance for leadership like that. I mean come on, most countries have gotten over the gay thing and allowed it. People who let their religion speak for them are the worst kind of people, imo. Not only that but his whole campaign is based on insults, fabricated truths or straight up lies. PolitiFact | All False statements involving Mitt Romney, here's an informative website on all those. As you can see, I fluffing hate him and I'm not even gay. I am so glad that people like that aren't in any position of power in Canada.

I don't know much about Obama, but he is an amazing public speaker and has the ideal personality for a world leader, in fact I wish Stephen Harper (Canadian prime minister) had some of the personality traits he has. I think he over extends himself a little too far in what he promises and what he can actually provide (like all politicians, really) but he does what he can. Everyone who hates on him for putting more debt on the country fails to remember who came before him and the mess that he has to clean up; the Bush administration and the Iraq war fiasco that I have strong opinions against but I won't get into that. I also think that Obamacare is a step in the right direction. It seems that the general idea of it is Obama wants to convert the healthcare system in America into a universal one but that can only happen in baby steps, but I firmly support it. If you haven't, I suggest you check out the documentary called "Sicko" by Michael Moore which really drives home the horrifying things that happen due to how the healthcare system is set up now.

I seen gun control mentioned earlier in this thread and my firm opinion on it is that it wouldn't matter which way America goes with it. I don't think they should increase it but I also believe that people are a product of their environment. There are countries with less gun control and less violent crimes involving fire arms and there are countries with more gun control and still less violent crimes involving fire arms, so I think the main factor is the mentality of the American people. If they are exposed to as much violence, ignorance and hatred that the American society is heavily based on (media etc, don't mean to offend any of the decent Americans, but its from what I see here in Canada), gun control is merely limiting potential killers to other means of death-dealing. For example, the recent killings at the Batman movie in Aurora, that was so thought out and pre-meditated that I'm sure if he wasn't able to obtain the guns he had, he would simply make a bomb, which lets be honest, would have the potential to be much worse.

Every American presidential election I am always amazed at the lying, the insults, and just how different it really is from Canadian politics. It truly makes me thankful that Canada hasn't degraded to the level that American politics is at. Don't get me wrong, there are some god damn idiots in politics in every country but I do not see how a country, who claims to be so democratic and full of opportunity, would be right at the top of the moron scale in terms of politicians. I'm sure you've heard of the disgraceful statements made about the legal status of abortions involving rape in which a candidate had categorized rape with "legitimate" rape or another comment on how "the female body does things to prevent rape". How are these people getting votes or even allowed to run for leader of a country? I truly don't understand why everyone is not pro-choice on the issue and leave it at that, same with gay marriage, why is there a need to oppose it?

If Mitt Romney or any far right-wing republican ran in Canada, I don't even think he would get his foot through the door before the people threw him out. I think America is a great country and I hope for the best but the way it seems to be going, I'm skeptical.

 

[Mjoll Abuser]

Ever heard of the 35% death tax? If Obama gets elected again they are going to raise it to 55%. Fact. Do you think the government has the right to take YOUR money from you when you die? Money that you have earned with blood, sweat, and tears over your entire life? Liberals take your money even after your dead for crying out loud!!! This is NOT what the United States was founded upon. We are giving billions to countries in the Middle East who hate our guts and use the money for corrupt extremist controlled governments and arms spending.

Liberal mindset: "The role of the U.S. government is to give money to countries who do not support us, to people who do not pay taxes, and to people who do not respect the Constitution. We will tax the middle class and people with success, because they do not deserve it."

Fact.

 

[Mjoll Abuser]

Not only that but his whole campaign is based on insults, fabricated truths or straight up lies.

Wow, I could have sworn you were talking about Obama...

 

[Mjoll Abuser]

One of my favorite illustrators, Han Hoogerbrugge, posts a short cartoon every day of current events. Here's todays entry; a summary of Mitt Romneys speech.

Hur!

Obama:

Successful Americans!

fluff'm!

Applause!

 

[Crooksin]

Wow, I could have sworn you were talking about Obama...

Well, all politicians lie, this is a fact of life but I think between the two of them, Mitt takes the cake. Considering Mitt and Obama are the two most popular ones and most likely for anyone of them to be elected, its a question of who is the lesser evil.

Mitt Romney has stated he doesn't care for poor people and/or middle class so you have to wonder what he'll do when he is in power, I'm sure he'll give a boost to the rich while Obama is looking to tax upper class.

It all comes down to your personal beliefs, really. I, for one, would not want someone like Mitt Romney heading my country for the reasons I've stated above.

Barack Obama vs Mitt Romney - Difference and Comparison | Diffen

I found this, which is pretty good showing the differences and only reinforced my support for Obama.