Politics, Politics, Politics
- Thread starter Medea
- Start date
Janus3003
Skyrim Marriage Counselor
Better than waking up screaming "I HATE AMERICA!" every morning.Eww. Just kidding Janus, you can believe all the lies you want. LOL
Medea
The Shadow Queen
Don't worry, Janus. They make economics impossible for most people to understand for a reason. I try to stay as informed as I possibly can, or as long as I have the patience for it, but do we really know what they are doing behind our backs? They write the laws and policies in such a long, drawn-out confusing way it's like reading Shakespeare.
Janus3003
Skyrim Marriage Counselor
...I want Congress to speak in iambic pentameter now.
Medea
The Shadow Queen
I think we should get more of a perspective from normal citizens in this country, instead of these "privileged" putzes who think they're smarter than everyone else. I bet most of them don't know what iambic pentameter is! It would be good to have normal people given a spot to voice their own opinions on prime time news shows, for example. Maybe we should move all of our elections online and give everyone a chance to be a congressman, a senator, or president. God forbid we do that, though! "We gotta keep the riff-raff in line."
Teritus
Giving it to you straight since 1869
I'm not an American so which one's which?
Medea
The Shadow Queen
It's just a snarky way of saying that they are really the same thing. Not many from either side are doing as much as they can to make things any better.
The_Madgod
LordLlamahat
SHEOGORATH FOR PRESIDENT!
ALL PEOPLE SHOULD BE ABLE TO ENJOY THEIR RIGHTS. AND LEFTS. VOTE SHEOGORATH/SANGUINE THIS NOVEMBER!
Medea
The Shadow Queen
The imperials or stormcloaks thread under General Discussion got locked today. I don't know why, but I'm assuming the argument got so heated someone got insulted with vulgarities or threatened.
It's amazing how so many people care more about Skyrim politics than real life politics. Jeez Louise!
It's amazing how so many people care more about Skyrim politics than real life politics. Jeez Louise!
The_Madgod
LordLlamahat
Well, this does happen to be a Skyrim forum, not a politics forum. Sheogorath prefers it this way. After all, he's been to Skyrim, but he's never been anywhere called politics.
Pingu
a.k.a Charlie Goodvibes
My nations type of politics is slowly becoming American it seems. With only a couple of days away from elections, the biggest Liberal right party is starting to throw mud at the biggest left wing party. ''If you for vote them, Holland will be a less safer place.'' and comments of that nature. I've seen a couple of U.S. commercials that were blatant fear mongering campaigns and I'm just hoping they won't stoop to those terrible commercials that're made to smear their opponent in the years to come.
The_Madgod
LordLlamahat
Okay, in all seriousness, I'm not a fan of either of the major parties. I'm much closer to liberal democrat then any kind of Republican, that's for sure, but I dislike being represented by people who only agree with some of the things I do. But, it's not likely that someone who agrees with you completely will rise to a high position of power in anyones lifetime. As for the Holland post, I agree completely. America has turned into exactly that. Just fear mongering and insults. I like to believe that my favored candidate, Barack, has avoided doing so, but I find that quite doubtful, and even if he himself didn't orchestrate any, people who work for him have.
theoperation
Hero of Jorvasskr
1) If you take away people's guns, they cannot defend themselves against the government, corporations, or psycho killers.
2) Guns don't kill people. Psycho killers and insurance company death panels do. If you take away guns, people will still kill one another. I know, it sound CRAZY, right?
3) Taking guns away from people will NOT stop crime, or even slow it down. This is the biggest myth of all. Why? BECAUSE CRIMINALS DO NOT BUY GUNS LEGALLY!!!! You have to register all of your firearms. Criminals by guns from underground, illegal weapons dealers, because if they have a felony record, they can't buy a gun! So, if you take away all registered firearms, the only people left that will have guns, aside from the military and police, will be criminals.
Like you I'd consider myself quite liberal, and if I were American, I'd probably vote Democrat, although I don't completely understand American politics as much as Australian politics.
Now here's where I completely disagree with you. BTW I presume you're talking about guns that are designed to kill people, not hunting guns for animals. I'm ok with people owning hunting weapons but not hardcore weapons.
1). So you think people are supposed to carry guns on them at all times just incase something happens? I'm not cool with walking around a town where everyone's packing...
2). Sure people kill people, but guns help kill many more people more efficiently than poisons, fire, knives and fists. and bombs are illegal for good reason, as guns should be as well. Anders Brievik would not have killed over 60 people with a sharp knife, but very easily with a gun. Sure more people are killed by cars than guns but cars are used for transport. Guns have 1 purpose and that is creating the death of another human being.
3). Port Arthur massacre (Australia) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This tragic event happened in my very own state. The perpetrator bought the weapon legally from a gun store that I lived about 5 minutes away from when I was a kid, which is now closed down. Back then we had gun laws similar to America, luckily things have changed and you can really only own low-powered hunting weapons. If the laws were in place back in 1996, the massacre would have never happened. If America had similar gun laws would Columbine have happened? The Virginia Tech massacre? Maybe, maybe not. All I understand is that Tasmanian lives would have been spared if we had our gun control laws sooner, and that's why I can never support "the right to bear arms".
Medea
The Shadow Queen
1) I'm not saying everyone should have firearms on them. Guns should be a personal choice like anything else. I'm just saying that I don't think it would be a good idea to take people's rights to own them away. If we did, we would be completely defenseless against the government and corporate security forces... then they could make any laws they wanted and there would be no way to stop them from enforcing those laws. It would be like if the British, long before the American Revolution happened, decided to confiscate all of our weapons. We wouldn't have been able to fight back, and therefore become an independent nation.
2 & 3) On the other side of the same token, if there were good, responsible citizens around with guns when a tragedy like the one you mentioned above happened, they could have shot him and prevented him from killing so many people. People crazy enough to go on shooting sprees would definitely think twice about it if they knew at least some of the people around them were packing too, wouldn't they?
And like I said in my opening post, if you take away guns the only people left that will have them would be criminals, because they don't buy guns legally. Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people and injured over 800 in the Oklahoma City bombing. He wasn't supposed to have a bomb. No one is, outside of intelligence and the military. The solution of taking away all the guns only leaves good citizens and families defenseless, because if a psycho wanted to get a gun, or make a bomb and kill as many people as he could with it, he or she would still buy a gun from an underground weapons dealer or make the bomb from scratch with chemicals.
I don't mean this as an insult to you, but this is the kind of mentality that existed in medieval times. The peasants in many feudal systems were not allowed to own weapons of any kind, and you saw how the peasants were controlled, and treated. In a country where the laws are supposed to be written to benefit the people over the "ruling classes", there should always at least be the hint of a threat, or the right to overthrow the system, if the system does not dole-out fairness and justice equally. It's written in our Constitution that we should have the right to bear arms for that purpose, because the founding fathers knew how corrupt the people in power can be.
theoperation
Hero of Jorvasskr
You're right that if good responsible people had guns on them, then he wouldn't have killed as many people, as he'd have been shot himself. The problem is that we had very little gun control and still the massacre happened, because no-one is allowed to carry firearms on their person in public. You'd have to change the law for that, and then you'd create a society where every second person is carrying a gun.
Now one time I (and a few of my friends) were threatened by someone holding a knife, who then chased after us for a short time. It was by far the scariest moment of my life, but luckily none of us were hurt. However if he had a gun, which he would have legally purchased and be legally carrying, he could have easily shot us, and I may not even be here to debate this with you. This is why you can't have everyone carrying guns.
I've said before I don't know much about American politics that much, but I do know a little bit about history. I know that when your founding fathers wrote into the constitution the right to bear arms it was the 1700's. Guns back then weren't even as powerful as crossbows, plus there was a genuine threat of invasion by British forces. America still faces threats now but everyone owning guns are not going to help.
You mention that guns are also needed so that people can overthrow the government if needed. You see, that's what I'm actually worried about. Like I said, I don't know much about America, but here in Australia we have a system that is in no way perfect but is reasonably fair, and anyone who works hard can make a good life here and live freely. However there is a dark underbelly of far right-wing nutters, not unlike Timothy McVeigh, who would overthrow the government if they had the chance. I'm glad they do not have the opportunity to do this with legally purchasing firearms. And thankfully due to our constitution and our democratic system that goes beyond just two parties, it is extremely unlikely that any government would get so oppressive as to warrant a violent revolution. Our founding fathers, while not as famous as yours, they knew that the pen is mightier than the sword and wrote in checks and balances that allowed it to be this way.
Believe me, Australia is a safer place now that guns are controlled. Whether or not America would be or not I am unsure about. But I know that there are a lot of gun massacres that happen over there, perhaps they might not have happened with gun control laws.
