Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

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DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
And while that's true, the Thalmor will also continue to do that on arguably more effective level in Cyrodiil.

Possibly.

If locals view it that way, than I can't imagine Cyrodiilics viewing it any differently.

Common folks might not, but Imperial leadership would.

Yes, they have their own troubles to deal with so losing Skyrim won't effect that many Imperials.

Yes, the Empire basically disbanding. That effects everyone.

He mentions Tullius "turning things around" so it suggests the Legion was present for while without Tullius. But like I said, where else would Tullius be?

Wherever the Emperor needs him, he's one General out of many.

But a Stormcloak/Dominion war would be more or less a continuation of a fight for Skyrim's freedom.

Be a short war if it was just Stormcloaks vs Dominion.

I don't think Motierre and his buddies' first order of buisness will be to go to war.

It will be if they want to keep the Empire together, the faster they act, the less time people begin to question Mede's death.

I'm talking about Imperials talking about NPCs, not the player character.

Not sure, have to go through a fair amount of dialogue.


The point is he's a Legionaire like how you said it didn't matter Cauis was Imperial. So even if it is because all the Nords are drunk out of their minds they still aren't respected by Imperials.

He is one man he doesn't speak for thousands of Legionaries or hundreds of thousands of citizens. Him being ex Legion doesn't mean anything, he's traumatised by events that took place in his service. He had his friends, his fellow soldiers killed in raids by Nords. How many Great War veterans speak fondly of elves?

Septims were in the same situation with the "veto" but it worked out well for them.

What? They had problems.
 
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General Charles Xander

General of the 11th Imperial Legion
really, the dragonborn need to take control, and dominate all of nirn. if anyone can do it the dragonborn can
The dragonborn will take no part in the Civil War. By the order of Bethesda!!!
 

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
He dies 50% of the time. So if you're going Stormcloak, I wouldn't rely on him leading you. Hopefully you like another Stormcloak Jarl enough to be your High King.
That's probably because he wears no armor. If Ulfric had worn a full cuirass and gauntlets and boots when he charged into battle, like this: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1420638923.880807.jpg he most likely wouldn't die at the hands of Rikke and Tulius
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
That's probably because he wears no armor. If Ulfric had worn a full cuirass and gauntlets and boots when he charged into battle, like this: he most likely wouldn't die at the hands of Rikke and Tulius

I wouldn't want to wear plate in the coldest city of Skyrim. Wouldn't the joints lock? Probably fall off his throne, unable to get up due to the weight.

"Well Ulfric, you can't escape from me this time. Hehehe"

"Shut up, I didn't think this through."

Edit: His outfit is armor though, just isn't classed as it.
 

TheQahnaarin

Son of Skyrim
And while that's true, the Thalmor will also continue to do that on arguably more effective level in Cyrodiil.

Possibly.

If locals view it that way, than I can't imagine Cyrodiilics viewing it any differently.

Common folks might not, but Imperial leadership would.

Yes, they have their own troubles to deal with so losing Skyrim won't effect that many Imperials.

Yes, the Empire basically disbanding. That effects everyone.

He mentions Tullius "turning things around" so it suggests the Legion was present for while without Tullius. But like I said, where else would Tullius be?

Wherever the Emperor needs him, he's one General out of many.

But a Stormcloak/Dominion war would be more or less a continuation of a fight for Skyrim's freedom.

Be a short war if it was just Stormcloaks vs Dominion.

I don't think Motierre and his buddies' first order of buisness will be to go to war.

It will be if they want to keep the Empire together, the faster they act, the less time people begin to question Mede's death.

I'm talking about Imperials talking about NPCs, not the player character.

Not sure, have to go through a fair amount of dialogue.


The point is he's a Legionaire like how you said it didn't matter Cauis was Imperial. So even if it is because all the Nords are drunk out of their minds they still aren't respected by Imperials.

He is one man he doesn't speak for thousands of Legionaries or hundreds of thousands of citizens. Him being ex Legion doesn't mean anything, he's traumatised by events that took place in his service. He had his friends, his fellow soldiers killed in raids by Nords. How many Great War veterans speak fondly of elves?

Septims were in the same situation with the "veto" but it worked out well for them.

What? They had problems.

Probably.

Tullius calls it a distraction, and he goes along with whatever the Emporer or Council says.

Might be a bit scary, but they can focus on themselves and get their own problems sorted out.

And right now, there's nothing to do but for him to be in Skyrim. If the Dominion or Empire were to attack each other, then recall him. There's no proof he's the best the Empire has either.

An invasion of Alinor by the Stormcloaks would fail, but so would a Dominion invasion of Skyrim. Not a long term solution by any means but it's not like the Thalmor are being overthrown anytime soon anyway.

I sure hope they don't go to war right away. Let's say the Stormcloaks have won, and they're the scapegoat. An invasion of Skyrim will be gruelling and if you win, you have the responsibility of rebuilding a now absolutley devasted province, as well as several more smaller rebellions on your hands. Now you're weakened with next war closer than ever. Let's say the Imperials win, you're still looking after a not-quite so devasted but still devasted province and still the chance for more rebellions, and the scapegoat is the Dominion. You can't just jump into a war with the Dominion to solidify your rule.

And I see where he's coming from and it's completely justified. It's a still a Legionaire with disdain for Nords.

They still had the Elder Council with same power the Mede's had and they never had the substantial problems with the Legions the Mede's have and they never had provinces breaking off left and right.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
And right now, there's nothing to do but for him to be in Skyrim. If the Dominion or Empire were to attack each other, then recall him. There's no proof he's the best the Empire has either.

No one said he was the best the Empire has, but he's the Emperor's go-to General for restoring order. Tullius himself mentions he's often sent to places that need fixing.

An invasion of Alinor by the Stormcloaks would fail, but so would a Dominion invasion of Skyrim. Not a long term solution by any means but it's not like the Thalmor are being overthrown anytime soon anyway.

The Dominion can't invade Skyrim, the Empire is blocking them. The Thalmor however, will make your life as hard as possible. Which is what Ulfric fears, them turning greater attention to Skyrim.

I sure hope they don't go to war right away. Let's say the Stormcloaks have won, and they're the scapegoat. An invasion of Skyrim will be gruelling and if you win, you have the responsibility of rebuilding a now absolutley devasted province, as well as several more smaller rebellions on your hands. Now you're weakened with next war closer than ever. Let's say the Imperials win, you're still looking after a not-quite so devasted but still devasted province and still the chance for more rebellions, and the scapegoat is the Dominion. You can't just jump into a war with the Dominion to solidify your rule.

Fighting in Skyrim isn't impossible, and rebuilding the province would be the same as the Stormcloaks. Overseeing construction, dealing with bandits, enforcing laws. Keeping order etc. The Imperials aren't preparing an invasion force in Skyrim, and if push comes to shove they can and will conscript you. If war broke out between the Empire and Aldmeri Dominion the White-Gold Concordat is void, the Ban on Talos is lifted. So why would they continue to rebel? You Stormcloaks have the harder task, you're rebuilding, but also preparing to invade the Aldmeri Dominion and if war broke out right after, the Empire is in the best position, while you Stormcloaks either abandon Skyrim to fight or miss out on the war. Stormcloak victory would have rebellions pop up, small skirmishes between the remaining forces and whatever little recruitment they can do. Unless the Great War 2 broke out, then hostilities will drop.

Of course you can, the Legions are already in position. The longer you wait, the more rebellions spring up, the more damage the Thalmor can cause.

And I see where he's coming from and it's completely justified. It's a still a Legionaire with disdain for Nords.

And? I'm sure there are countless ex Legionaries who hate High Elves and Bosmer. War and conflict does that to people, it isn't a disdain out of spite. But one that grows from first hand experience, unable to cope with the horrors. There could be some who simply hate others for the sake of it, but what can you do? You get that in our world. Tamriel isn't perfect, but the Empire worked together for the most part. So even if a few disliked each other, the majority were fine.

I could throw up a Nord in Oblivion who fled Skyrim to avoid service in the Legions. Use him as the example average. Wouldn't be fair to judge an entire society over one example.

They still had the Elder Council with same power the Mede's had and they never had the substantial problems with the Legions the Mede's have and they never had provinces breaking off left and right.

That is like arguing the Reman Dynasty never had the same problems as the Akaviri leadership. Medes and Septims had different problems, and you can't compare them since they never faced the same tests. The Septim Dynasty never had a Great War, unless you count the War of the Red Diamond where High Rock and Skyrim rebelled against the Empire and an Empress was killed, the Imperial City invaded and taken by the rebel forces.

What do you mean provinces breaking off left and right? Morrowind, Elsweyr and Black Marsh were lost under Ocato. Summerset Isle was lost since it was simply too far to maintain influence and authority due to the Stormcrown Interregnum. Valenwood was lost by a coup from the Thalmor and their allies, during the time the Empire was just trying to get stable under the Mede Dynasty. They were supporting the rebels for many years.

Hammerfell didn't want to leave the Empire, and was forced out to keep the peace. The only province trying to "break off" is Stormcloak half of Skyrim...
 
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Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
I wouldn't want to wear plate in the coldest city of Skyrim. Wouldn't the joints lock? Probably fall off his throne, unable to get up due to the weight.

"Well Ulfric, you can't escape from me this time. Hehehe"

"Shut up, I didn't think this through."

Edit: His outfit is armor though, just isn't classed as it.
Yeah, if the stats were actually there, he might live longer on the field of battle
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Yeah, if the stats were actually there, he might live longer on the field of battle

He's a good warrior, but I bet both sides wouldn't actually walk into the Palace/Castle by themselves.

Be perfect for an ambush.

Ulfric: "Secure the door."
Galmar: "Already done."
Rikke: "Archers Ready!"
Ulfric: "Oh plops."
Galmar: "Ysmir's beard!"
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
He dies 50% of the time. So if you're going Stormcloak, I wouldn't rely on him leading you. Hopefully you like another Stormcloak Jarl enough to be your High King.

In the mean time your General gives up and hides behind a woman! Even Legate Rikkie admits it.

The Imperial legion sucks!
The Imperial legion sucks!
The Imperial legion sucks!
The Imperial legion sucks!
The Imperial legion sucks!
The Empire can blow me!
The Empire can blow me!
The Empire can blow me!
The Empire can blow me!
 

HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
TES lore has always been a great fixation of mine. But, the role of Imperials vs. Stormcloaks has never really captured my interest. I like to pop in here every now and then to get a little scoop though.

On a broader horizon this dismissal is most likely due from. The rebels taking back their homeland seems unwarranted. They have their homeland-- they're living in it. I realize it's the ideology that separates the true state, but that's how I see it. The rebels, unless under the most severe circumstances, will not chase out the empire. Sure, we could put the DB on their side, but golly people! He's not a god!

Sorry. Trying not to rant. Would you entertain a single question for me? Surely the Dominion would have more trouble striding through Skyrim if a well-known Nord were brought into council. Obviously there are issues with custom, but what if?

Perhaps the conquering of Skyrim is inevitable and the Dominion is bound to reign supreme. So what? They'll have to fall sometime. When the world sees the tyranny (if such exists), it's in their best interest to work together. Some similar happenings have happened in our own past. (Don't let this statement think I'm proud of our path to equality.) Braving the storm isn't enough. It is the destruction of the storm and the aftermath that is so dooming.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
He dies 50% of the time. So if you're going Stormcloak, I wouldn't rely on him leading you. Hopefully you like another Stormcloak Jarl enough to be your High King.

In the mean time your General gives up and hides behind a woman! Even Legate Rikkie admits it.

The Imperial legion sucks!
The Imperial legion sucks!
The Imperial legion sucks!
The Imperial legion sucks!
The Imperial legion sucks!
The Empire can blow me!
The Empire can blow me!
The Empire can blow me!
The Empire can blow me!

tumblr_mwwdkkGVwj1smn1tbo1_500.jpg


At least Tullius nearly won the war without the Dragonborn.

I have word of a new Imperial force assembling in the south, ready to advance on our position as Pale Pass is clear.

"Soon enough I'll have you back under the headsman's axe, and this time there won't be any dragon to save you."​
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
He dies 50% of the time. So if you're going Stormcloak, I wouldn't rely on him leading you. Hopefully you like another Stormcloak Jarl enough to be your High King.

In the mean time your General gives up and hides behind a woman! Even Legate Rikkie admits it.

The Imperial legion sucks!
The Imperial legion sucks!
The Imperial legion sucks!
The Imperial legion sucks!
The Imperial legion sucks!
The Empire can blow me!
The Empire can blow me!
The Empire can blow me!
The Empire can blow me!

tumblr_mwwdkkGVwj1smn1tbo1_500.jpg


At least Tullius nearly won the war without the Dragonborn.

I have word of a new Imperial force assembling in the south, ready to advance on our position as Pale Pass is clear.

"Soon enough I'll have you back under the headsman's axe, and this time there won't be any dragon to save you."​

What kind of a fetish crap is Tullius into? Got Ulfric all tied and gagged up. I never knew he was into bondage. Poor Ulfric was going to be another victim of his until Alduin showed up to save the day.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
There is hope for High Queen Elisif yet.

"Steward Falk, I have a task for you. I want to begin stockpiling food and water in the event we come under siege, and I would like you to oversee this work personally."

"As you know, Solitude's coffers are much depleted by the war efforts. Thane Erikur, you have a strong head for business. What do you suggest?"

"Thane Bryling, what do you have to report about the state of Haafingar's defenses?"

"I will empower my Steward to seek out capable individuals to secure Haafingar. Thank you, my Thanes."

While she is young and inexperienced, she can grow into a fine ruler.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
There is hope for High Queen Elisif yet.

"Steward Falk, I have a task for you. I want to begin stockpiling food and water in the event we come under siege, and I would like you to oversee this work personally."

"As you know, Solitude's coffers are much depleted by the war efforts. Thane Erikur, you have a strong head for business. What do you suggest?"

"Thane Bryling, what do you have to report about the state of Haafingar's defenses?"

"I will empower my Steward to seek out capable individuals to secure Haafingar. Thank you, my Thanes."

While she is young and inexperienced, she can grow into a fine ruler.

In the mean.....
Elisif3_zps3ba004ab.jpg

Ulfric: "And damn the Moot! We should risk letting those milkdrinkers put Thorryg 's woman on the throne? She'll hand Skyrim over to the elves on a silver plate."

That she will High King Ulfric Stormcloak ;) That she will as shes already being suckered into the Thalmor by enjoying their luxury parties. Wont be for long before she becomes Elewens thrall.... if she isn't already there.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
In the mean.....
Elisif3_zps3ba004ab.jpg

Ulfric: "And damn the Moot! We should risk letting those milkdrinkers put Thorryg 's woman on the throne? She'll hand Skyrim over to the elves on a silver plate."

That she will High King Ulfric Stormcloak ;) That she will as shes already being suckered into the Thalmor by enjoying their luxury parties. Wont be for long before she becomes Elewens thrall.... if she isn't already there.

I'd be saying that if she was looking at me too. Elisif is just playing politics, you just put on a smile and say how nice it is to be with the Thalmor. Besides, Elenwen spares no expense on these parties, they're probably not bad once you get over the fact you're surrounded by Nazi Elves who wouldn't even think twice about slitting your throat and dumping you in the basement.

I fail to see how Elisif keeping up her courtesies makes her bad. Your "favorite" Queen Potema was the exact same when addressing the Elder Council, guess she was their thrall when she called them wise and impressive. Welcome to politics, maybe Potema can teach you on when and where you keep up appearances.

"You're no better at diplomacy than you are on the battlefield."
 
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Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
He's a good warrior, but I bet both sides wouldn't actually walk into the Palace/Castle by themselves.

Be perfect for an ambush.
Yeah, I guess they were both going for a dramatic send off.
 

TheQahnaarin

Son of Skyrim
And right now, there's nothing to do but for him to be in Skyrim. If the Dominion or Empire were to attack each other, then recall him. There's no proof he's the best the Empire has either.

No one said he was the best the Empire has, but he's the Emperor's go-to General for restoring order. Tullius himself mentions he's often sent to places that need fixing.

An invasion of Alinor by the Stormcloaks would fail, but so would a Dominion invasion of Skyrim. Not a long term solution by any means but it's not like the Thalmor are being overthrown anytime soon anyway.

The Dominion can't invade Skyrim, the Empire is blocking them. The Thalmor however, will make your life as hard as possible. Which is what Ulfric fears, them turning greater attention to Skyrim.

I sure hope they don't go to war right away. Let's say the Stormcloaks have won, and they're the scapegoat. An invasion of Skyrim will be gruelling and if you win, you have the responsibility of rebuilding a now absolutley devasted province, as well as several more smaller rebellions on your hands. Now you're weakened with next war closer than ever. Let's say the Imperials win, you're still looking after a not-quite so devasted but still devasted province and still the chance for more rebellions, and the scapegoat is the Dominion. You can't just jump into a war with the Dominion to solidify your rule.

Fighting in Skyrim isn't impossible, and rebuilding the province would be the same as the Stormcloaks. Overseeing construction, dealing with bandits, enforcing laws. Keeping order etc. The Imperials aren't preparing an invasion force in Skyrim, and if push comes to shove they can and will conscript you. If war broke out between the Empire and Aldmeri Dominion the White-Gold Concordat is void, the Ban on Talos is lifted. So why would they continue to rebel? You Stormcloaks have the harder task, you're rebuilding, but also preparing to invade the Aldmeri Dominion and if war broke out right after, the Empire is in the best position, while you Stormcloaks either abandon Skyrim to fight or miss out on the war. Stormcloak victory would have rebellions pop up, small skirmishes between the remaining forces and whatever little recruitment they can do. Unless the Great War 2 broke out, then hostilities will drop.

Of course you can, the Legions are already in position. The longer you wait, the more rebellions spring up, the more damage the Thalmor can cause.

And I see where he's coming from and it's completely justified. It's a still a Legionaire with disdain for Nords.

And? I'm sure there are countless ex Legionaries who hate High Elves and Bosmer. War and conflict does that to people, it isn't a disdain out of spite. But one that grows from first hand experience, unable to cope with the horrors. There could be some who simply hate others for the sake of it, but what can you do? You get that in our world. Tamriel isn't perfect, but the Empire worked together for the most part. So even if a few disliked each other, the majority were fine.

I could throw up a Nord in Oblivion who fled Skyrim to avoid service in the Legions. Use him as the example average. Wouldn't be fair to judge an entire society over one example.

They still had the Elder Council with same power the Mede's had and they never had the substantial problems with the Legions the Mede's have and they never had provinces breaking off left and right.

That is like arguing the Reman Dynasty never had the same problems as the Akaviri leadership. Medes and Septims had different problems, and you can't compare them since they never faced the same tests. The Septim Dynasty never had a Great War, unless you count the War of the Red Diamond where High Rock and Skyrim rebelled against the Empire and an Empress was killed, the Imperial City invaded and taken by the rebel forces.

What do you mean provinces breaking off left and right? Morrowind, Elsweyr and Black Marsh were lost under Ocato. Summerset Isle was lost since it was simply too far to maintain influence and authority due to the Stormcrown Interregnum. Valenwood was lost by a coup from the Thalmor and their allies, during the time the Empire was just trying to get stable under the Mede Dynasty. They were supporting the rebels for many years.

Hammerfell didn't want to leave the Empire, and was forced out to keep the peace. The only province trying to "break off" is Stormcloak half of Skyrim...

He's often sent to places that need fixing... Is there an actual quote saying he's the go-to guy for restoring order? There'd be an awful lot of fixing up to be doing in the last few years for the Empire.

The Empire (and Hammerfell) blocking them, that and a field of ice (something High Elves from Alinor don't have a lot of experience with). Impractical for the Thalmor to spend that much time up there with no base of operations, not to mention they probably wouldn't even take an independent Skyrim seriously anyway. Ulfric takes the Thalmor very seriously. He fears them, and therefore will take whatever steps he can to combat them.

Of course it's not impossible, but the losses would far out weigh the gains. I'm not saying rebuilding won't be hard for the Stormcloaks. At least it will be led by people who will be prioritizing it ahead of anything else.

It's not just the terms of the WGC, it's the very notion of agreeing to it in the first place. First of all its essentially a surrender, not something generally smiled on in a culture who's paradise is reached by dying in battle. Secondly, it showed the Empire was willing to trade away the freedom of its subjects. Not agreeing or disagreeing with these but that is how the Nords view it.

Because going to war is so new for the Nords right? The whole country would grind to a halt because they're off invading someone?

If it were that simple they would've gone to war a long time ago. Lots more to it than "the legions are in position."

I doubt it's more than just a few Imperials with a complete lack of knowledge or respect for Nordic customs.
"Without us to keep order, the provinces would fall into barbarism and lawlessness; especially Skyrim."
A description of an obviously well respected and appreciated ally right there.

Yes out of dozens of effective rulers there was the occasional maniac. That's Tamriel for you. The fact they salvaged life as we know it from the Oblivion Crisis speaks to how legendary they were.

Skyrim, Hammerfell, and Valenwood. One third of Tamriel. No attempts at reclaiming lost parts. All in half the time of the entire Septim dynasty.

It's not like it was the Empire giving Hammerfell the boot. Hammerfell wouldn't be a part of an Empire under the Concordat. If anything they broke off.
 
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TheQahnaarin

Son of Skyrim
There is hope for High Queen Elisif yet.

"Steward Falk, I have a task for you. I want to begin stockpiling food and water in the event we come under siege, and I would like you to oversee this work personally."

"As you know, Solitude's coffers are much depleted by the war efforts. Thane Erikur, you have a strong head for business. What do you suggest?"

"Thane Bryling, what do you have to report about the state of Haafingar's defenses?"

"I will empower my Steward to seek out capable individuals to secure Haafingar. Thank you, my Thanes."

While she is young and inexperienced, she can grow into a fine ruler.

Wouldn't matter, she would end up being a puppet of the Empire for likely the remainder of her reign, with Tullius remaining in Skyrim.

"Let's have parade!" Couldve been another you might of wanted to throw in there.
 

TheQahnaarin

Son of Skyrim
He dies 50% of the time. So if you're going Stormcloak, I wouldn't rely on him leading you. Hopefully you like another Stormcloak Jarl enough to be your High King.

In the mean time your General gives up and hides behind a woman! Even Legate Rikkie admits it.

The Imperial legion sucks!
The Imperial legion sucks!
The Imperial legion sucks!
The Imperial legion sucks!
The Imperial legion sucks!
The Empire can blow me!
The Empire can blow me!
The Empire can blow me!
The Empire can blow me!

tumblr_mwwdkkGVwj1smn1tbo1_500.jpg


At least Tullius nearly won the war without the Dragonborn.

I have word of a new Imperial force assembling in the south, ready to advance on our position as Pale Pass is clear.

"Soon enough I'll have you back under the headsman's axe, and this time there won't be any dragon to save you."​

Starting to think the gods really do favour Ulfric.
 

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