Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Baldur Red-Snow]

As for Morrowind, it is mentioned in the Dragonborn dlc the Legions left Morrowind to better protect Cyrodiil during the Daedric invasion,meaning they were ordered by Ocato. Who was the ruler during the Oblivion Crisis. Your post doesn't contradict it, you just don't mention that the Legions left them during the Oblivion Crisis.

Ah right, I forgot he was in charge then, but that really doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. They still ended up losing Morrowind from this.

Hammerfell wasn't prosperous for the Empire during the Fourth Era, also you do drop a province if they're unwilling to follow Imperial law as a whole. All of Hammerfell wanted to keep fighting, the rest of the Empire including Skyrim didn't for many years.

All they had to do was deny the WGC. People seem to think it is either, or, but it isn't. If Hammerfell was with the Empire still, the Thalmor wouldn't be continuing that war. Little raids here and there is preferable to losing half of Skyrim and all of Hammerfell. None of the Empire was prosperous, so beggars cant be choosers. It was a bad move.


I'll give you pale pass, been awhile since I played Skyrim so you got me on that one.

Stormcloaks are also being indirectedly aided by the Thalmor.

Thalmor couldn't touch Skyrim, that argument is something I agree with. Skyrim is protected by geography. But the Stormcloaks don't plan on defending which is why some say they are doomed. If they were smart they wouldn't leave Skyrim.

That's silly, those people assume Skyrim wants to fight the Thalmor alone. Alliances in TES have been made before, and will so again. Canon makes this a simple issue, since Skyrim is with Cyrodiil in one outcome, so they likely will be in another. Ulfric just wants Skyrim independent. When it is, Cyrodiil's going to have to reach out for some help, big time. And Hammerfell's likely to help the SCs, being in similar situations.

Also, the Thalmor are directly aiding the Imperials, so I don't see the point. They want the war to continue as is evident in Ulfric's dossier.

Free-Winter keeps them there for the time being, making mentions of slowly changing but sudden introduction could be unsafe for the Argonians. The other races seem a lot happier to see the Empire though. The only problems are coming from the Nords, the Argonians and Dunmer aren't seen being violent towards each other. Not in Windhelm and not in Riften, both cities have refugees from Morrowind.

Of course they seem happier, remember when Obama was first elected? Similar. Very similar. You also can't go by what is poorly represented in the game, dialogue reveals what the game doesn't as does books.

There is mention that one of them pays taxes, which would mean that they are paying taxes if they work which many of them do, the monument being in Eastmarch doesn't mean Eastmarch is under the same laws as Solstheim. It is a monument showing what the Nords did for the Dunmer of Morrowind. The High King can't make laws for other Holds, in Nordic politics the Holds are all largely independent and each Hold is governed by a Jarl.

There's no Jarl in Solstheim, for one, so that obviously shows this is for Windhelm. That woman is an Imperial who said this and likely doesn't even know they don't pay taxes. If they do, its likely just businesses and not common people. That Dunmer was a shopkeeper. And yes, the High King can make laws for all the holds. What makes you say otherwise? Ulfric and Vignar's interaction at the peace summit makes that clear, as does him giving away holds.

Rolf Stone-Fist is hardly a credible source of information, considering he walks around the Gray Quarter in the early hours of the morning yelling insults and calls the Dark elves Imperial spies. Scouts-Many-Marshes saying he wishes they all got along better can also be reinforced by Suvaris "Some of these Nords will come up with any excuse to despise us. And it isn't just the dark elves they hate -- they make a target of the Argonians as well. In fact, just about anyone who isn't a Nord is fair game for their bullying."

Rolff being a dick doesn't discredit his dialogue one bit. It isn't a statement he was asked that he could lie about, its just something he said on his own, from his observation. You can't dismiss it based upon his dickery, especially when the other piece of dialogue confirms it:

This shows that whether or not the hist example is actually true, the argonians are said to not get along with the Dunmer.

http://cs.uesp.net/i...rmid=0x00094186

http://cs.uesp.net/i...rmid=0x00047ca7

^'Tear each other apart' being a clear sign they don't like each other.

Riften also borders Morrowind, with the road into Morrowind being in the Rift. Refugees came from both ends.

The Thu'um is considered an ancient form of magic and a High King hasn't had the Thu'um since the First Era, not since the Greybeards were formed. Ulfric's use of the thu'um causes half of Skyrim to call it murder, hence it is a Civil War. Ulfric fled Solitude after he killed the High King because he knew what would happen, he wasn't fleeing from the Imperial Legion they hadn't got involved yet. Ulfric cares for songs and personal glory, his use of the thu'um spread his legend all across Skyrim, with everyone talking about it.

It doesn't matter how long a high king hasn't had it, they still revere it and it was never outlawed or anything like that. It is the stormvoice of Kyne, a gift to Nords. The same people calling it murder also said he blew him to bits, and that is proven false by the developers themselves:

http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000c07ee

Read the red to the right. He fled because he knew those who didn't support him wouldn't support the old law, and he was right. Rogvir was made a scapegoat for that very reason.

If the Bear of Markarth is propaganda then the author's second book must be Stormcloak propaganda because it doesn't make the Empire look perfect. The Bear of Markarth isn't propaganda, what Ulfric did isn't contradicted by what you have shown it just shows that Igmund was involved also.

Though this is a good bit. The Nords didn't care who was and who wasn't involved in the Forsworn Uprising. 'The Nords' being Ulfric's militia. Also if the Bear of Markarth is simply propaganda then perhaps you can explain how this is in there, with the book being printed before you ever met Ulfric in the Palace of the Kings.

"You are with us, or you are against Skyrim" was the message on Ulfric's lips

Galmar: "If he's not with us, he's against us."
Ulfric: "He knows that. They all know that."

For mere propaganda, how come there is a striking similarity there. Also for the first link showing someone's post on a forums isn't exactly evidence, especially since he compares the Bear of Markarth to 'Nords Arise' which means he doesn't understand the first thing about propaganda. The book containing propaganda from the Empire is called 'The Talos Mistake' nothing about Ulfric, the Empire isn't going to use propaganda to slander Ulfric Stormcloak he is considered a traitor to the Empire and not gaining much attention from Cyrodiil. The Empire isn't interested in winning over the hearts and minds of the population, their response was to send General Tullius to collect Ulfric's head. Stormcloaks are different, they fight for a more personal nature where they are trying to win over the hearts and minds of the Nordic population.

The Empire isn't going to write out some propaganda to discredit Ulfric Stormcloak, especially if the author has a second book which doesn't have the Empire in the most esteemed light. That is like double conspiracy which is paranoia. If the Bear of Markarth is going to become propaganda, then by gods half of lore could be considered propaganda also. You shouldn't over analyze books in TES, when people start doing that you're going to find majority of lore is vague or has some holes and then every nut comes out with conspiracy theories. TES lore comes from short little paragraphs written by Beth, there are plenty of mistakes and people shouldn't dig too deep for information since it won't get them much.

It is contradicted, read the links again:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6qpq3FrJbxjYWNMZXRZWkdWbzA/edit?pli=1

Check the years and the date
http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000e1623

Markarth incident happened in 4E176, girl is 23 by 4E201, so she was born in 4E178, after Ulfric was arrested. And:

http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thonar's_Journal

Nobody mentions Ulfric, not the forsworn, no one in Markarth, nobody anywhere mentions Ulfric doing these things in the Bear of Markarth, and the math proves this wrong without a shadow of a doubt, so I don't need to respond to the rest until we understand this much first. The author for all we know could be a Reachman. They have many races in the forsworn, not just Breton. They're lorewise a very mixed bunch:

The Reachmen, also known as the Witchmen of High Rock, are a tribal group of primarily Breton descent who inhabit the Reach in southwestern Skyrim[1] and the neighboring Western Reach in the east of High Rock.[2] Their ancestry includes not only Bretons, but spreads across many of the known races of Tamriel.[2] They mainly utilize primitive gear and hedge-magic, have a tribal appearance and nature, and typically inhabit makeshift fortresses built into caves and ruins throughout the Reach's battle-scarred landscape.[1][2]


That would explain why he doesn't speak of the Imperials in a great light. That, or he's just simply passing on propaganda unwittingly. You can pass on propaganda and not know that's what it is. He may think he's telling the truth, but regardless, the book is proven false by simple math.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Ah got me while I was editing my post.

Yeah they lost Morrowind, but the Empire is planning something for Morrowind with Imperial guards in Riften talking about having a staging point into Morrowind just in case.

The Empire was prosperous in the Fourth Era. Hammerfell was plagued by infighting between Crowns and Forebears. Only High Rock, Cyrodiil and Skyrim remained prosperous and peaceful. - Great War.

I don't believe Hammerfell would be so eager to help the Stormcloaks, especially since Skyrim has a history of attacking and invading Hammerfell. They still haven't given back the land they stole from the Redguards. Skyrim never helped Hammerfell when they were fighting on, why would the Redguards seek to help the Nords whom have a history of messing with them. Probably make more sense for the Redguards to attack a weakened Skyrim as revenge.

Solstheim didn't have a Jarl because it was taken by the Nords recently, it wasn't owned completely by Skyrim until they stole it during and after the Oblivion Crisis. They wouldn't have put a Jarl in place and then they gave it to the Dunmer.

From Oblivion:
There are rumors that the Nords are attempting to capture the whole of Solstheim, and remove the Imperial fort on the island.
I hear that the Nords of Skyrim have been warring with the Redoran of Morrowind.
I have heard that Nord warriors have travelled from Skyrim with Orc mercenaries to assault the Redoran of Morrowind.

It was then given to the Dunmer, the offer has nothing to do with Eastmarch.

This tower once served as a meeting place where those brave souls who achieved safe passage to Skyrim would find loved ones, and leave notice for others who could not be found.

Let it stand in honor of those who had the strength and spirit to accept Skyrim's Offer "untithed to any thane or hold, and self-governed, with free worship, with no compensation to Skyrim or the Empire except as writ in the Armistice of old wheresoever those might still apply, and henceforth let no Man or Mer say that the Sons and Daughters of Kyne are without mercy or honor."

We, the Jarls of Skyrim, hereby decree this site as monument to the struggle of those who fled their native home of Morrowind in the time following the Red Year.

The monument was made a monument in Eastmarch because it was located in Eastmarch. Skyrim's offer was Solstheim, not no taxes in the Hold of Eastmarch.

Rolff isn't questionable because he is a dick, otherwise almost everyone in game is questionable, especially Neloth but he's a funny dick He's questionable because he also claims they're Imperial spies on the fact they aren't fighting the Empire.

For the Bear of Markarth we do not know how long executions went for regarding the Markarth Incident, we don't know when Ulfric was arrested. How long did it take for the Legion to arrive, Imperial City to Markarth isn't a short trip, or how long until the Thalmor found out. The Jarl executing someone two years later doesn't discount Ulfric. Ulfric was there and just because they don't mention him by name doesn't mean it is false. Very few Reachmen in the mine were around during the Incident, the majority of those who were fled to the hills and became the Forsworn.

Taking in all the facts that shows us from the game, surrounding the Markarth Incident. Meaning documents, the book, Igmund and others. It shows that Ulfric isn't the only one involved, it doesn't contradict anything, it adds to it.

There are many things that don't add up in game and don't make sense, few quests and what NPC's say. Skyrim was rushed, you have to remember that.

For season unending, giving away Holds seemed extreme to some of them. Ulfric's We will do whatever I decide is in the best interests of Skyrim. Are we clear? Doesn't mean High Kings are like that, Ulfric is changing tradition and basically making the Pact of Chieftains meaningless, he's going for complete control not how Skyrim has been since after the War of Succession in the First Era. He places Galmar in charge of keeping the Jarls in line. In Ulfric's Skyrim it is to be his way.

 

[Baldur Red-Snow]

If the Imperials want to try something with Morrowind, then they're dumber then I thought. Also, those points you made about Solstheim doesn't disprove that the monument was for Eastmarch. Its in Eastmarch and doesn't designate any specific location. By default, it would signify Dunmer in general. Its just hearsay to suggest otherwise, with no indication.

Rolff's comment still doesn't show any sign of dishonesty. His paranoia isn't a lie, so there's no reason to not believe his comment. Especially after an argonian suggests the same thing and says he wishes that the nords dunmer and argonians all got along better.

As for the bear of markarth thing, an execution is an execution. And it doesn't matter, the girl was born two years after the "Markarth incident" which the Stormcloaks call the day that Ulfric and his men were arrested. Be honest, friend. You and I both know there's no way he could have been involved with that. He's already got King "murder", people stack way too much on him. Yes he has the with us or against us mentality, but Ulfric isn't stupid. He knows doing something like that would hurt his cause and his recruitment chances. Him doing that doesn't make sense, besides the fact that the numbers don't add up.

To the last part:

But as mighty and influential as each individual Jarl is, Skyrim's true power comes from the strength of its High King. The High King is ruler above all, and is always one of the Jarls, selected by a body called the "Moot" - a specially convened council of all the Jarls, who meet with the express purpose of choosing Skyrim's High King. Or so it is, in theory.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Skyrim's_Rule

High King is supreme ruler of all. You'll need to find lore that says High Kings can't make laws for other holds.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The Imperials aren't trying anything yet. Doesn't mean they won't when they get the chance, they say "Now that the Empire's arrived in Riften, we've finally established a launching point into Morrowind... Just in case."

The monument became a monument four years after Skyrim's offer. Which makes sense, the monument is Refugee's Rest east of Windhelm. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Refugees'_Rest

There is nothing to suggest the Dunmer were above tax when living in the Holds, especially since your argument about the offer was as in game shows the offer of Solstheim. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:DB-load-Untithed_to_any_thane_or_hold.jpg

For the Dunmer & Argonians being against each other, why is it only in Windhelm? Refugees came both to Windhelm and Riften, and why would there be racial problems between Dunmer and Argonians when only Ulfric took power and only in Windhelm? Had there been issues and violence, why didn't Ulfric's father banish the Argonians? Or his father before him. The Dunmer have been in Windhelm for well over a hundred years, the Argonians have been in Windhelm for a long time also. Ulfric himself banished the Argonians, so why isn't there examples of this racial issue elsewhere? If by your example from Rolff who has no reason to be dishonest besides his extreme hatred for the other races to the point of threatening what could be suggested as torture to the Dunmer. Saying they should dig a big hole and throw the Dunmer & Argonians in it to tear each other to pieces doesn't mean they would normally, but when you're throwing them in a hole to force them to fight there is a difference.

The execution of the young girl, doesn't absolve Ulfric's involvement in the Markarth Incident. There could of been plenty of executions before Braig's daughter. There is no reason for a Scholar to be dishonest when investigating what happened, you don't like it because it makes Ulfric look bad, it doesn't make the Empire look any better in his second book. Calling it propaganda and dismissing it is an easy form of argument, nothing shown contradicts Bear of Markarth it shows events happening after the so called Markarth Incident, doesn't mean Ulfric didn't have people executed when he took the city. But it does have striking similarities to Ulfric's character that can only mean some of it, if not most is true.

Yes he has the with us or against us mentality, but Ulfric isn't stupid. He knows doing something like that would hurt his cause and his recruitment chances. Him doing that doesn't make sense, besides the fact that the numbers don't add up.

Ulfric during the Markarth Incident wasn't trying to rally support to his Stormcloaks in a bid for control of Skyrim. His father was still Jarl of Eastmarch and thoughts of rebellion were far away. Ulfric in 4E 201, relies on political and people support for his cause. He was making a statement in Markarth, doesn't mean he will be making the same kind of statement in the Civil War twenty six years later. Ulfric wasn't after recruitment twenty six years ago, or had the Stormcloak cause. High King Istlod was still ruler of Skyrim, the King who accepted the White-Gold Concordat for Skyrim.

Skyrim's moot hasn't changed since the Pact of Chieftains after the war of succession which tore the First Empire of the Nords apart. The High King while he can accept things on behalf of Skyrim, the Holds are largely all independent, so yes technically he probably could place laws, but just one Hold and not others? That wouldn't make a fair King and when it comes to taxes which this is about, the High King made no such decree, his offer was that of Solstheim not free loading in Windhelm. The wording of the offer, no Jarl would of accepted that in his city. It would mean the 'Gray Quarter' is self governed, doesn't belong to any thane, or hold so it becomes part of Morrowind, and the Armistice treaty applies which would mean 'Local House guards and the Great House Law' is accepted in that one section of the city. If that was the case, they could kill or arrest any Nord who crosses into their section of the city because it doesn't belong to Skyrim.

 

[nightmare16]

i personally kind of lean towards the empire only because ulfric is a complete plus i want to be the only person who can shout but im not really big on either side ive had 2 characters go to stormcloaks and have had 2 go to imperials so im pretty much on the fence lol if anyone has any good agruements for one side o the other id love to hear it so i can finally pick a side

 

[Matsuu]

Well for one thing, the Stormcloaks are xenophobes. For another, Ulfric isn't in slightest truly concerned about the sovereignty of Skyrim or the re-institution of Talos as an official god; he's only concerned with the power that fulfilling such promises will bring him.

I do not agree with the Empire's actions much of the time, but for one, it is they alone who are keeping the Dominion at bay. If Skyrim were to successfully secede, not only would it be open for total conquer, but the Empire would be weakened such that it too would sooner fall.

As much as I don't care for the Empire, I care less for the Stormcloaks. I despise the Dominion. I haven't followed the story--content to remain neutral--but I will kill any Dominion Justiciars I run into.

 

[TrollingTalos343]

And why should I pick one over the other? So far neither have shown me that one is better or worse than the other, they both have their bad and good qualities. Many say Stormcloaks because the name sounds cool, but I want to side for a reason, not the name.

I'm a male Khajiit (Destruction mage)

Please help me D:

EDIT: I really want to keep being a mage so does one of them have classes or can I just stay been a mage.

I only started playing 4 days ago and i have never played any other TES.

I would join Imperials because, #1: Imperials have more brands of Armour. #2: Imperials are just fighting back from the assaulting Stormcloaks, #3: Imperials are not racist #4: Ulfric Spamclock and Galmar Ion-Fish, never care about anything but the war, Ulfric, just screams out "forget the Empire! I own Skyrim! I kill king cuz i suk!" and Galmar is just like a caveman "You kill Ice-Ghost-Monster-Thingy at creepy stone near Wintyhold...you join". #5: I am a dark elf, and on my first time in Windhelm, I decided never to join them at all.
P.S. I know it has been like ten months since you posted this, I hope you enjoy the game! You will find awesome adventures!

 

[Dovahkiir]

Since my character is a Khajit who's married to an Elf, I'll let you guess.

 

[Ulfberht]

I almost always end up joining the Stormcloaks. Ulfric is definitely the more charismatic of the two generals, and something about him makes me smile. I've only ever joined the Imperials when roleplaying. They're kind of dickheads.

 

[The Formulated Gamer]

Stormcloaks:
Bad: There kind of racist I guess you could say.

Good: They helped you in the beginning. They don't ban a religion. They hate the high elfs!

Imperials:
Bad: They killed you for crossing the border. They surrendered to the Thalmor. Agreed to ban a religion.

Good: They are well trained. Have very good armor.

I know thats not a lot of reasons but anyways I would go for the Stormcloaks.

 

[Ulfberht]

Stormcloaks:
Bad: There kind of racist I guess you could say.

Good: They helped you in the beginning. They don't ban a religion. They hate the high elfs!

Imperials:
Bad: They killed you for crossing the border. They surrendered to the Thalmor. Agreed to ban a religion.

Good: They are well trained. Have very good armor.

I know thats not a lot of reasons but anyways I would go for the Stormcloaks.

SKYRIM BELONGS TO THE NOOORRDDSS!

 

[DrunkenMage]

Stormcloaks:
Bad: There kind of racist I guess you could say.

Good: They helped you in the beginning. They don't ban a religion. They hate the high elfs!

Imperials:
Bad: They killed you for crossing the border. They surrendered to the Thalmor. Agreed to ban a religion.

Good: They are well trained. Have very good armor.

I know thats not a lot of reasons but anyways I would go for the Stormcloaks.

For Stormcloaks you forgot to add, xenophobia, racial segregation, slavery and still banning of religion.

The execution in Helgen wasn't about crossing the border, it was a misunderstanding. You were captured in an ambush with Ulfric and his personal guard.

The Empire didn't exactly surrender during the Great War, they went for a temporary peace treaty to regain strength. There is going to be another round of warfare between the Thalmor and the Empire.

 

[Rimfaxe96]

The Empire didn't exactly surrender during the Great War, they went for a temporary peace treaty to regain strength. There is going to be another round of warfare between the Thalmor and the Empire.

And they better win this time, or there's going to be some major shifts when it comes to power over Tamriel.
If Bethesda decides that they'll be the top dogs, I wonder how the next TES will look like...

 

[Ulfberht]

Stormcloaks:
Bad: There kind of racist I guess you could say.

Good: They helped you in the beginning. They don't ban a religion. They hate the high elfs!

Imperials:
Bad: They killed you for crossing the border. They surrendered to the Thalmor. Agreed to ban a religion.

Good: They are well trained. Have very good armor.

I know thats not a lot of reasons but anyways I would go for the Stormcloaks.

For Stormcloaks you forgot to add, xenophobia, racial segregation, slavery and still banning of religion.

The execution in Helgen wasn't about crossing the border, it was a misunderstanding. You were captured in an ambush with Ulfric and his personal guard.

The Empire didn't exactly surrender during the Great War, they went for a temporary peace treaty to regain strength. There is going to be another round of warfare between the Thalmor and the Empire.

I hope they kill off the Empire entirely in the next Elder Scrolls game, or evolve it into something new and cooler as the times change. Also, slavery? I'd like proof of that, friend. The Imperials seem to be fond of torturing people and executing without trial. How noble.

 

[DrunkenMage]

And they better win this time, or there's going to be some major shifts when it comes to power over Tamriel.
If Bethesda decides that they'll be the top dogs, I wonder how the next TES will look like...

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/14...ou-just-hate-the-thalmor-dont-you/?p=22598810

I hope they kill off the Empire entirely in the next Elder Scrolls game, or evolve it into something new and cooler as the times change. Also, slavery? I'd like proof of that, friend. The Imperials seem to be fond of torturing people and executing without trial. How noble.

Speak to the Stormcloak supporting Jarl in Markarth, listen to their conversations. They're planning on enslaving the native people of the Reach.

Windhelm has torture tools too, as noted in a historical book Ulfric isn't above torture and he isn't above summary execution without trial and for small reasons, such as not picking up a weapon in his name. But you're probably the type who calls that propaganda, like many try to do because they can't defend it.

In regards to the execution of Helgen, there wasn't a need for a trial. Ulfric killed the High King, they know it, he admits it. Ulfric surrendered to General Tullius without a fight, he knew it would be execution for him and his men. You were caught with them, as Todd Howard explains if you're character is a 'good' guy then it was a mistake and you weren't supposed to be there. High Treason in the Empire is death, has been since the game Daggerfall.

Though it is very interesting to see Stormcloak supporters go on about trials. Trials are a very Imperial thing, Skyrim has been part of the Empire for over an Era yet no trials. Nords don't seem to want them, a bunch of Nord warriors sitting around in a court room talking for ages isn't really part of their culture. In Nordic politics you send a man your axe instead of talking.

 

[Pronged Pickle]

The way I see it, is that the question is whether or not to kill a weak Empire, or rebuild it.

The Stormcloaks would be more of an ideal interest of allegiance, had they shown the necessary intelligence. The only intelligence and strategy I see throughout the Stormcloak questline is the battle strategies by Galmar Stone-fist, and the only line from Ulfric explaining the significance of capturing Falkreath Hold. Most of the Stormcloak Jarls are clueless, ignorant, unlikable, and/or stubborn. And then there's the stereotype of them being racist.

However, I could forgive all of that, and go with them, if their plan wasn't to charge ride at the Dominion following the Civil War. Why? Because these things can heal over time. Officials grow smarter as time goes on, racism diminishes, etc. But when you put yourself in a position immediately that risks the land...yeah. Granted I believe the Stormcloaks would be successful on the defensive in a Thalmor v. Skyrim war.

However, if they won, they could have the opportunity to make alliances with other seceded nations, and strengthen themselves. Unfortunately, under Ulfric, I find this unlikely.

I want to mention that their racism is somewhat justified. While it's unfair to judge all Argonians, Khajits, and elves, the Nords have a history with all of them. The first two have a history of thievery, and the latter are what the Nords fought 30 years ago in a devastating war. However, they prove ignorant when they fail to learn the Dark Elves were not involved (to my knowledge; I also heard that the elves wouldn't pay their taxes in Windhelm?).

The Imperials, on the other hand, are introduced as this weak, corrupt system, yet as you look farther into it, they appear as a good-morale faction that you can roll with (however, from story purposes, it may look bad to see "E4:201 - Empire rules Skyrim; Civil War at its peak, E4:202 - Empire wins and continues to rule Skyrim" vs "Raging Revolutionary War leads to the secession of Skyrim!" ). Most of the Jarls are good-minded, are accepting, and care for their people. Yet I'm not sure if I approve of their plan of betraying the Thalmor later on (hence the topic sentence).

Overall, I'd be neutral if the Stormcloaks didn't appear to me as brutish idiots with moments of intelligence. But I'm inclined to turn towards the Imperials.

P.S I'd really like to side with Hammerfell at one point or another, regardless of allegiance...

 

[Rimfaxe96]

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/14...ou-just-hate-the-thalmor-dont-you/?p=22598810

Following your link led me to a few users speculating about the next TES only, but to be honest, I've googled that a few times already to get a few ideas to keep my imagination going. So far there's a whole range of stuff, from Altmer holding all other races chained to the next wall to the material universe in TES being completely destroyed along with a heck-no-plan killing mankind.

Though, if you meant to tell me that eventually all we can do now is speculate and guess; you're right.
Maybe TES6 will end in a war that gets out of control and links to the storyline of Fallout...?

 

[NENALATA]

And they better win this time, or there's going to be some major shifts when it comes to power over Tamriel.
If Bethesda decides that they'll be the top dogs, I wonder how the next TES will look like...

I would say that in some ways the power has already shifted. While there are neutral factions, the Dominion is becoming increasingly powerful, while the Empire wages war against it's own people...

The Aldmeri are the rightful rulers of Tamriel and the saviors of mer~

But don't you worry, don't be sad. The Thalmor are working around the clock, to restore the Dominion to it's former glory. All you need is a little patience, a little faith.

Behold the future... Behold the Thalmor!

 

[DrunkenMage]

The link I sent you to had Bestheda in it. "Thalmor are arrogant fools..." That post was done by beth.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I would say that in some ways the power has already shifted. While there are neutral factions, the Dominion is becoming increasingly powerful, while the Empire wages war against it's own people...

The Aldmeri are the rightful rulers of Tamriel and the saviors of mer~

But don't you worry, don't be sad. The Thalmor are working around the clock, to restore the Dominion to it's former glory. All you need is a little patience, a little faith.

Behold the future... Behold the Thalmor!

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/14...ate-the-thalmor-dont-you/page-6#entry22598810

Behold the future... Behold your downfall.