Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Mr.Self Destruct]

Well, this thread seems to have calmed down a lot.

I remember the old days where you had people flat out insulting and flaming one another.

Good times.

 

[NENALATA]

For the love of... Oh all right. I guess might as well, I'm a better Thalmor anyways and always have been. And besides, there's no use throwing my superior intellect away on an Kingdom that's not meant to last. Oh wait I meant "Empire".

Not to mention how this forum is infested with Imperials, I can't help the mistakes the Thalmor are making, what with getting in bed with Ulfric and all, however I do respect the Dominion. Although if supporting Ulfric allows the unification of Cyrodil, I can see where that might be worth it. As long as Ulfric and his Stormcloaks are serving our interests then that's fine.

In war, never underestimate the value of your pawns.

​

ALL HAIL THE ALDMERI DOMINION​

ALL HAIL THE MADGOD​

 

[NENALATA]

The Empire should of been destroyed in the last Great War, yet they survived. That itself speaks volumes of the Empire's ability to defeat the Aldmeri Dominion in the next round of fighting.

Indeed your Empire should have been Destroyed, however your Emperor submitted himself to Thalmor authority, and the Empire was spared. We decided to show mercy and gave man his chance to live under the rule of the Aldmeri Dominion. By signing the WGC, the Empire has ensured it's place in the Dominion and for that, *every* Imperial citizen needs to rejoice.

​

ALL HAIL THE ALDMERI DOMINION​

ALL HAIL THE MADGOD​

 

[DrunkenMage]

Indeed your Empire should have been Destroyed, however your Emperor "convinced" us to be merciful and we gave man his chance to live under the rule of the Aldmeri Dominion. By signing the WGC, the Empire has ensured it's place in the Dominion and for that, *every* Imperial citizen should rejoice.

​

ALL HAIL THE ALDMERI DOMINION​

ALL HAIL THE MADGOD​

No. The Thalmor had all the advantage, seventy plus years of planning, a weakened Empire and element of surprise.

The Empire was given days to prepare for an invasion, their army was spread out across four provinces, the Empire was weakened and had great Military weakness.

Yet the Empire survived because good leadership, the Thalmor sent everything it had into Cyrodiil. The Legions were still in at least three provinces and the Thalmor had nearly surrounded the Imperial City.

The Thalmor did try to end the war when they captured the Imperial City.

During the winter of 4E 174-175, the Thalmor seem to have believed that the war in Cyrodiil was all but over. They made several attempts to negotiate with Titus II.

But this was a better outcome.

In the end, the main Aldmeri army in Cyrodiil was completely destroyed. The Emperor's decision to withdraw from the Imperial City in 4E 174 was bloodily vindicated.
Lord Naarifin was kept alive for thirty-three days, hanging from the White-Gold tower.

 

[NENALATA]

It was a better outcome, I agree. Which we allowed you to have only after your Emperor conceded defeat unto his Elven Masters, signing the WGC. And the WGC was then ratified by the few remaining Imperial Provinces. Same thing holds true for Ulfric, only difference is Ulfric is a thug and the Emperor is by all indications an honest man.

​

ALL HAIL THE ALDMERI DOMINION​

ALL HAIL THE MADGOD​

 

[DrunkenMage]

It was a better outcome, I agree. Which we allowed you to have only after your Emperor conceded defeat unto his Elven Masters, signing the WGC. And the WGC was then ratified by the few remaining Imperial Provinces. Same thing holds true for Ulfric, only difference is Ulfric is a thug and the Emperor is by all indications an honest man.

​

ALL HAIL THE ALDMERI DOMINION​

ALL HAIL THE MADGOD​

That outcome occurred before the White-Gold Concordat. Hardly elven masters since the Empire is preparing for war, with nearly the entire Imperial army sitting on the Aldmeri Dominions doorstep. I wonder if they'll still have such high opinions of themselves when they watch their great Aldmeri Dominion be defeated once more.

 

[NENALATA]

You would have preferred to continue the war then? Obviously, the Emperor didn't share your "optimistic appraisal of the situation".

The reality of it was, your side could fight no longer and ours simply didn't have to. You had your choice of a treaty or certain demise thru a war of attrition with the Dominion infrastructure in tact and fully-functional. Not to mention the cities we still held in Cyrodil which were still Denied to the Imperial army, seeing how you burned up all your resources on taking back the Imp City.

 

[DrunkenMage]

You would have preferred to continue the war then? Obviously, the Emperor didn't share your "optimistic appraisal of the situation".

The reality of it was, your side could fight no longer and ours simply didn't have to. You had your choice of a treaty or certain demise thru a war of attrition with the Dominion infrastructure in tact and fully-functional. Not to mention the cities we still held in Cyrodil which were still Denied to the Imperial army, seeing how you burned up all your resources on taking back the Imp City.

No one said the Empire should have continued the war. I was saying the outcome occurred before the White-Gold Concordat which was the destruction of the Aldmeri Dominion's main army.

The Aldmeri Dominion held no cities in Cyrodiil, all their forces were destroyed. Can't hold onto cities when you have no soldiers.

 

[Dawnstar Guard]

i have made a breton and done that forsworn quest all they want is peace if you go imperial or stormcloak your just making more war happen oh and im still loyal to dawnstar and its people

 

[DrunkenMage]

i have made a breton and done that forsworn quest all they want is peace if you go imperial or stormcloak your just making more war happen oh and im still loyal to dawnstar and its people

Dawnstar is loyal to the Stormcloaks, loyalty to the citizens of Dawnstar is hard when you have Skald as Jarl.

Madena: "Skald, I've been meaning to ask you for a leave of absence. I wish to return to High Rock until this war is over."
Skald: "You wish to leave now? In Skyrim's moment of triumph, just before we cast off the yoke of Imperial rule?"
Madena: "Yes, that's exactly what I'm asking. I'm not a Nord, I'm a Breton, and I have no wish to fight this war."

Skald: "We are poised for glory, Jod. The Empire will never take Dawnstar while every last man, woman, and child here draws breathe!"
Jod: "With respect, Jarl. You can't ask everyone to throw themselves against trained Legionnaires. Let's leave the fighting to the Stormcloaks."

Skald: "The only reason dragons are attacking is because Talos is angry with us for turning our backs on him. As soon as we drive the Empire out of Skyrim, the dragons will vanish. Mark my words."

Imperial controlled Dawnstar.

Brina: "No. We're completely exposed. Bows and arrows are in short supply. Every building is made of thatch and wood. I've given standing orders to the guards to prepare water bucket runs to the harbor in case of a fire, but that's all we can do."

Brina: "Madena, I was wondering if you could help me with something. Your magic would be invaluable."
Madena: "If this is about battle magic, forget it. I've told every Jarl I've served under that I won't...."
Brina: "Actually, I was just wondering if you could make sure people are tended to if they get hurt. I'm sure you wouldn't object to that."
Madena: "I, well, no of course not. I would be glad to help."

 

[Dawnstar Guard]

we

i have made a breton and done that forsworn quest all they want is peace if you go imperial or stormcloak your just making more war happen oh and im still loyal to dawnstar and its people

Dawnstar is loyal to the Stormcloaks, loyalty to the citizens of Dawnstar is hard when you have Skald as Jarl.

Madena: "Skald, I've been meaning to ask you for a leave of absence. I wish to return to High Rock until this war is over."
Skald: "You wish to leave now? In Skyrim's moment of triumph, just before we cast off the yoke of Imperial rule?"
Madena: "Yes, that's exactly what I'm asking. I'm not a Nord, I'm a Breton, and I have no wish to fight this war."

Skald: "We are poised for glory, Jod. The Empire will never take Dawnstar while every last man, woman, and child here draws breathe!"
Jod: "With respect, Jarl. You can't ask everyone to throw themselves against trained Legionnaires. Let's leave the fighting to the Stormcloaks."

Skald: "The only reason dragons are attacking is because Talos is angry with us for turning our backs on him. As soon as we drive the Empire out of Skyrim, the dragons will vanish. Mark my words."

Imperial controlled Dawnstar.

Brina: "No. We're completely exposed. Bows and arrows are in short supply. Every building is made of thatch and wood. I've given standing orders to the guards to prepare water bucket runs to the harbor in case of a fire, but that's all we can do."

Brina: "Madena, I was wondering if you could help me with something. Your magic would be invaluable."
Madena: "If this is about battle magic, forget it. I've told every Jarl I've served under that I won't...."
Brina: "Actually, I was just wondering if you could make sure people are tended to if they get hurt. I'm sure you wouldn't object to that."
Madena: "I, well, no of course not. I would be glad to help."

well i have to be loyal until i die or i find out the meaning of life in skyrim and both will never happen

 

[DrunkenMage]

I have always wondered how the Stormcloaks think they will take their entire army to the Aldmeri Dominion. The Stormcloaks had trouble fighting off Auxiliary Legions of locally recruited citizens, not even a proper Legion.

The Aldmeri managed to wipe out two entire Legions completely. Stormcloaks don't even have Battlemages, be slaughter.

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

The reality of it was, your side could fight no longer and ours simply didn't have to.

Actually it was quite the opposite, as mentioned before the Aldmeri simply had their entire invading force destroyed. Meaning they could no longer fight... meaning the Empire didn't have to.

 

[NENALATA]

NENALATA said: ↑

You would have preferred to continue the war then? Obviously, the Emperor didn't share your "optimistic appraisal of the situation".

The reality of it was, your side could fight no longer and ours simply didn't have to. You had your choice of a treaty or certain demise thru a war of attrition with the Dominion infrastructure in tact and fully-functional. Not to mention the cities we still held in Cyrodil which were still Denied to the Imperial army, seeing how you burned up all your resources on taking back the Imp City.​

No one said the Empire should have continued the war. I was saying the outcome occurred before the White-Gold Concordat which was the destruction of the Aldmeri Dominion's main army.

The Aldmeri Dominion held no cities in Cyrodiil, all their forces were destroyed. Can't hold onto cities when you have no soldiers.

The main Thalmor army was Destroyed at Red Ring. The Dominion still occupied Anvil, Skingrad, Bravil and Leyawin.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The reality of it was, your side could fight no longer and ours simply didn't have to.

Actually it was quite the opposite, as mentioned before the Aldmeri simply had their entire invading force destroyed. Meaning they could no longer fight... meaning the Empire didn't have to.

Not to mention they couldn't keep the holdings they gained from the treaty. Aldmeri Dominion were in pretty bad shape after the war, if they could have defeated the Empire they would of done so. A Thalmor Lord was kept hanging from the Tower, that would of angered them to no end.

 

[DrunkenMage]

NENALATA said: ↑

You would have preferred to continue the war then? Obviously, the Emperor didn't share your "optimistic appraisal of the situation".​

The reality of it was, your side could fight no longer and ours simply didn't have to. You had your choice of a treaty or certain demise thru a war of attrition with the Dominion infrastructure in tact and fully-functional. Not to mention the cities we still held in Cyrodil which were still Denied to the Imperial army, seeing how you burned up all your resources on taking back the Imp City.​

No one said the Empire should have continued the war. I was saying the outcome occurred before the White-Gold Concordat which was the destruction of the Aldmeri Dominion's main army.

The Aldmeri Dominion held no cities in Cyrodiil, all their forces were destroyed. Can't hold onto cities when you have no soldiers.

The main Thalmor army was Destroyed at Red Ring. The Dominion still occupied Anvil, Skingrad, Bravil and Leyawin.

They didn't. They had nothing left in Cyrodiil. You can't occupy cities without any soldiers.

 

[NENALATA]

NENALATA said: ↑

The reality of it was, your side could fight no longer and ours simply didn't have to.​

Actually it was quite the opposite, as mentioned before the Aldmeri simply had their entire invading force destroyed. Meaning they could no longer fight... meaning the Empire didn't have to.

Not hardly. Not one Imperial Legion was left standing at more than 40 - 50% capacity. Dominion infrastructure held, we still held the cities in Cyrodil and a war of attrition would have drained the Empire even more.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Where are you getting this idea that the Thalmor held cities after their defeat?

 

[NENALATA]

All AVAILABLE soldiers were thrown into battle at Red Ring. Not the entire Thalmor army.

Furthermore, it's debatable whether or not the Thalmor really left Cyrodil at all. Cicero's journal talks about fire bolts taking out the speaker. Could be the Thalmor still hold southern and western Cyrodil (Colovia) and the Emperor just wanted to stop the war. Only Hammerfell's treaty dictated a complete withdrawal of Thalmor forces from their territory.

 

[Dawnstar Guard]

Well... *sigh*

I've had some more time to think on this and rather than come up with some humungous proof, I think it boils down to this.

Stormcloaks were created to serve Ulfric and his interests. Now if you have no problem with this and are firmly behind these interests, then Stormcloaks are for you. However, you ultimately answer to Ulfric and are sworn to serve him, "Even in death". It's almost as if Ulfric is telling people to not worry about the Gods judging them, that he is the only judge they will ever have to answer to.

Imperials are playing by the numbers and are trying to walk on water, make off with the warden's daughter. Imperial interests are geared towards the good of the Empire first and foremost. Which means, these interests can change and as an Imperial... you have to be able to adapt and accept change. However, what I find so compelling about the Imperial oath, is that you are not swearing yourself to one person really. You are saying that your conscience is clear and your actions are freely able to be judged by both those above and below.

Of course, both of these entities are now servants of the Aldmeri Dominion, which serves the Greater Good in Tamriel. Furthermore, the word of man is empty and void, much like the oaths they take to their archaic Kingdoms and decadent, divided cultures.

ALL HAIL THE ALDMERI DOMINION​

ALL HAIL THE MADGOD​

well elf im breton so i do sometimes look down on men as lesser people. i still do remember the great kingdoms in highrock and all it took was us to be there. we have skill over magic and blades and you think you have power. the only thing the only thing the dominion has to keep them going is being better than the other races which in the end you are the worst race.