Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Raijin]

As Talos as my witness and to the rest. If I ever play Skyrim again (It probably wont be far away) not only will I delete all of my characters by starting fresh again, I will also start my Skyrim experience by siding with the Imperials. It will be a hard decision to make, but I must have confidence and strength.

I'm sorry Ulfric and Galmar.

 

[Jader]

Raijin as an Imperial?!? It's the end times!

 

[DrunkenMage]

I don't know how people get the idea the Imperials are invading Skyrim. You would think over an Era of being part of the Imperial Empire, with the Imperial Legion having garrisons in Skyrim since it joined, that Skyrim would be part of the Empire's lands. I don't think 'invading' would be the correct wording.

Unless you're one of those people who think the army is invading your hometown because they have a base there long before you were born.

 

[Raijin]

I don't know how people get the idea the Imperials are invading Skyrim. You would think over an Era of being part of the Imperial Empire, with the Imperial Legion having garrisons in Skyrim since it joined, that Skyrim would be part of the Empire's lands. I don't think 'invading' would be the correct wording.

Unless you're one of those people who think the army is invading your hometown because they have a base there long before you were born.

Perhaps the lack of understanding of the lore? Or maybe people are in denial that prevents them from wanting to know the actual truth? Some cannot handle the truth, as stated. Either way the Empire could not possibly invade Skyrim as it is part of the provinces of the Empire. It is not logical to do such a thing like that. The Empire has every right to protect their province against the rebels (Stormcloaks) just as much as the rebels have the right to fight for their independence from the Empire. Neither party are wrong.

Even the most bias Imperial supporters must give Ulfric some credit for standing up for his rights. Just as the most bias supporters of the Stormcloak must give credit to the Empire for showing just how disorganize the Stormcloaks truly are when General Tullius manage to capture the leader within 6 months of being station in Skyrim to deal with the rebellion.

 

[Raijin]

Raijin as an Imperial?!? It's the end times!

The question is.... Will the Empire allow such diabolical creature be among their ranks? Black Orchid has given me some ideals for my next character.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Raijin as an Imperial?!? It's the end times!

The question is.... Will the Empire allow such diabolical creature be among their ranks? Black Orchid has given me some ideals for my next character.

We allowed Ulfric. Good thing about the Legion, it doesn't discriminate on joining.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I gained new found respect for Tullius when I saw him after Helgan walking away like a boss from surviving a Dragon attack. Where he simply strolls by himself all the way back to Solitude.

 

[Raijin]

We allowed Ulfric. Good thing about the Legion, it doesn't discriminate on joining.

So Ulfric is right... the Legion would recruit anyone with a pulse, huh?

I gained new found respect for Tullius when I saw him after Helgan walking away like a boss from surviving a Dragon attack. Where he simply strolls by himself all the way back to Solitude.

Of all the characters I've gone through I never actually see this happen. I kept up with Ralof.

True story I was bored inside Castle Dour where General Tullius and Legate Rikke was station at. I decided to go console command, and started spawning some mudcrabs. A few mins in the game he starts attacking me. It almost seems as if he caught me red handed entering in the console command codes to summon mudcrabs in his office. It was one of the funniest OOC moments in Skyrim.

 

[NENALATA]

DrunkenMage said: ↑

We allowed Ulfric. Good thing about the Legion, it doesn't discriminate on joining.​

So Ulfric is right... the Legion would recruit anyone with a pulse, huh?

Hmmm. This is something even I'm a little divided over. Perhaps Drunken Mage might be able to clear this one up. The Legions out in the field consist of any and/or all of the following:

- Bretons
- Imperials
- Nords
- Redguards

The interesting thing is out of this line-up, the Redguards are the only ones still fighting for the Empire from a former Province. The Imps and Nords we know are still w/ club Empire and by every indication so are the Bretons. So I don't think it's that they'll just take anyone, although yes they take you. Again, by all indications everyone fighting for the Empire is doing so because they want to be there. No one appears to be pressed into service. Difference is *I think* the Empire is more ready to accept help than the Stormcloaks. Yes, you can join the 'cloaks as well but they have a pl*psty attitude about it. This was another thing I immed noticed upon my first visit to Windhelm.

Legate Rikke and Tullius are both more forth coming about letting you in to the Legion. I honestly felt like they wanted me there as opposed to Ulfric and Galmar who are so critical of me for being an "Outsider". That really gets on my nerves.

DrunkenMage said: ↑

I gained new found respect for Tullius when I saw him after Helgan walking away like a boss from surviving a Dragon attack. Where he simply strolls by himself all the way back to Solitude.​

Of all the characters I've gone through I never actually see this happen. I kept up with Ralof.

True story I was bored inside Castle Dour where General Tullius and Legate Rikke was station at. I decided to go console command, and started spawning some mudcrabs. A few mins in the game he starts attacking me. It almost seems as if he caught me red handed entering in the console command codes to summon mudcrabs in his office. It was one of the funniest OOC moments

Of all the characters I've gone through I never actually see this happen. I kept up with Ralof.

True story I was bored inside Castle Dour where General Tullius and Legate Rikke was station at. I decided to go console command, and started spawning some mudcrabs. A few mins in the game he starts attacking me. It almost seems as if he caught me red handed entering in the console command codes to summon mudcrabs in his office. It was one of the funniest OOC moments in Skyrim.

Ahhh ok. Yes. Ok, so... Here's the deal. When you leave Helgen thru the cave, Tullius or he and Elenwen are on the road (by the Lake) on their way back to Solitude. I've never seen him there but one time. And it was pretty kool. But you have to get there fast. Most of the time he won't show up at all because of the game config.

 

[Black Orchid]

I gained new found respect for Tullius when I saw him after Helgan walking away like a boss from surviving a Dragon attack. Where he simply strolls by himself all the way back to Solitude.

I guess I've never been in the right place at the right time, since I've never seen how the rest of the survivors get out. I've always wanted to totally destroy the Imperial Captain chic that tells you to go to the chopping block even though your name isn't in Hadvar's list.

Does she survive? And if so, where's a good place to find her after the attack on Helgen?

 

[DrunkenMage]

Hmmm. This is something even I'm a little divided over. Perhaps Drunken Mage might be able to clear this one up. The Legions out in the field consist of any and/or all of the following:

- Bretons
- Imperials
- Nords
- Redguards

The interesting thing is out of this line-up, the Redguards are the only ones still fighting for the Empire from a former Province. The Imps and Nords we know are still w/ club Empire and by every indication so are the Bretons. So I don't think it's that they'll just take anyone, although yes they take you. Again, by all indications everyone fighting for the Empire is doing so because they want to be there. No one appears to be pressed into service. Difference is *I think* the Empire is more ready to accept help than the Stormcloaks. Yes, you can join the 'cloaks as well but they have a pl*psty attitude about it. This was another thing I immed noticed upon my first visit to Windhelm.

Legate Rikke and Tullius are both more forth coming about letting you in to the Legion. I honestly felt like they wanted me there as opposed to Ulfric and Galmar who are so critical of me for being an "Outsider". That really gets on my nerves.

There is an Altmer and Dunmer Legate which would also suggest that there would be Legion soldiers of other races, many of which would more than likely be stationed in Cyrodiil with the majority of the Legions. Skyrim's Legionnaires tend to speak of joining recently and with Rikke's dialogue calling it more a Militia.

Race doesn't mean province loyalty. Legate Fasendil is far from loyal to the Aldmeri Dominion.

People can be drafted into service if they are a ward of the crown it seems, it was mentioned in Oblivion. "I became a ward of the crown and was drafted into the Imperial Army. After serving two tours patrolling Stros M'Kai" - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Carodus_Oholin

 

[DrunkenMage]

I gained new found respect for Tullius when I saw him after Helgan walking away like a boss from surviving a Dragon attack. Where he simply strolls by himself all the way back to Solitude.

I guess I've never been in the right place at the right time, since I've never seen how the rest of the survivors get out. I've always wanted to totally destroy the Imperial Captain chic that tells you to go to the chopping block even though your name isn't in Hadvar's list.

Does she survive? And if so, where's a good place to find her after the attack on Helgen?

She dies, you can kill her if you follow Ralof.

 

[DrunkenMage]

What does free market have to do with the concept of the Imperial Empire and the Stormcloak Rebellion? I'm confused slightly.

 

[Raijin]

She dies, you can kill her if you follow Ralof.

I have a confession to make. Lately I've been having the same kind of attitude as she has. Does this mean I'm becoming an Imperial supporter? By the gods no! Whats happening to me? Did you put some kind of poison in my food?

 

[DrunkenMage]

She dies, you can kill her if you follow Ralof.

I have a confession to make. Lately I've been having the same kind of attitude as she has. Does this mean I'm becoming an Imperial supporter? By the gods no! Whats happening to me? Did you put some kind of poison in my food?

I would of done the exact same thing. When something standing in front of you changes races, sexes and appearances for twenty minutes before your eyes, you'd kill the freak too.

 

[Raijin]

I would of done the exact same thing. When something standing in front of you changes races, sexes and appearances for twenty minutes before your eyes, you'd kill the freak too.

 

[Ten Foot Bunny]

From the point of view of someone who's playing Skyrim for the first time, and not even most of the way through the main quest to boot, I'm backing the Imperials for one simple reason: Ulfric used The Voice for worldly gains. That goes against my interpretation of Emblem X on the Seven Thousand Steps:

The Voice is worship; Follow the Inner path; Speak only in True Need

Did Ulfric NEED to use the shout on Torygg or was there another way he could have started his rebellion? He mentions that a truly strong ruler would have used a shout but one might argue (admittedly, despite it being pure speculation) that Torygg was simply honoring the above creed.

I dunno. Ulfric's use of the shout to defeat Torygg is really the sticking point for me. While I'm no fan of the Empire's current attitude toward Skyrim and its traditions, Ulfric seems like a much worse option for Skyrim's people.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Came across an Imperial soldier who had a jug of milk in his inventory... I mean come on, that just makes the milk drinker thing worse.

 

[NENALATA]

Well... *sigh*

I've had some more time to think on this and rather than come up with some humungous proof, I think it boils down to this.

Stormcloaks were created to serve Ulfric and his interests. Now if you have no problem with this and are firmly behind these interests, then Stormcloaks are for you. However, you ultimately answer to Ulfric and are sworn to serve him, "Even in death". It's almost as if Ulfric is telling people to not worry about the Gods judging them, that he is the only judge they will ever have to answer to.

Imperials are playing by the numbers and are trying to walk on water, make off with the warden's daughter. Imperial interests are geared towards the good of the Empire first and foremost. Which means, these interests can change and as an Imperial... you have to be able to adapt and accept change. However, what I find so compelling about the Imperial oath, is that you are not swearing yourself to one person really. You are saying that your conscience is clear and your actions are freely able to be judged by both those above and below.

Of course, both of these entities are now servants of the Aldmeri Dominion, which serves the Greater Good in Tamriel. Furthermore, the word of man is empty and void, much like the oaths they take to their archaic Kingdoms and decadent, divided cultures.

ALL HAIL THE ALDMERI DOMINION​

ALL HAIL THE MADGOD​

 

[DrunkenMage]

The Empire should of been destroyed in the last Great War, yet they survived. That itself speaks volumes of the Empire's ability to defeat the Aldmeri Dominion in the next round of fighting.