Can't Decide between Stormcloaks or Imperials...

[Gearuvagen]

It's almost like arguing against a Frost Troll.... just go talk to the people of Solitude, listen to Ulfric's 'Plans" as you go through the Stormcloak storyline and you might see.

 

[Koala Jack]

I'd shoot you, because no sane man would still carry a sword.


I don't want an insane man in my meadery.

 

[Mookie]

It's almost like arguing against a Frost Troll.... just go talk to the people of Solitude, listen to Ulfric's 'Plans" as you go through the Stormcloak storyline and you might see.

I played. Didnt hear it. Enlighten me, please

 

[Mookie]

I'd shoot you, because no sane man would still carry a sword.


I don't want an insane man in my meadery.

You sir are a troll and are getting ignored from now on. Bye bye

 

[Koala Jack]

Dude just stop posting, you're not even trying to prove how Ulfric is right, you're trying to prove how he is a good guy.


No good guys exist in war.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Proof......?

How the duel went down by accounts of those who were there. Ulfric came into the palace, challenged the High King now before anyone in the Court could even react Torygg jumped off his chair and accepted and took out his sword. Then a loud BAM as Ulfric shouted and stabbed the King then ran out like a bat out of hell before anyone could even react. It was over rather quickly, and Ulfric was gone before anyone had realized what had just happened. The guards were chasing him but he had a head start since everyone in the palace was stunned. The gateguard opened it for Ulfric even though half of Solitude guards were chasing him. This allowed Ulfric to escape from Nordic justice, the Civil war sparked the Western Holds called him murderer and war broke out, the Legion was ordered to step in and bring stability to the region, they had trouble dealing with it so Tullius and a few Legates were dispatched to Skyrim at the request of the Emperor.

 

[Mookie]

How the duel went down by accounts of those who were there. Ulfric came into the palace, challenged the High King now before anyone in the Court could even react Torygg jumped off his chair and accepted and took out his sword. Then a loud BAM as Ulfric shouted and stabbed the King then ran out like a bat out of hell before anyone could even react. It was over rather quickly, and Ulfric was gone before anyone had realized what had just happened. The guards were chasing him but he had a head start since everyone in the palace was stunned. The gateguard opened it for Ulfric even though half of Solitude guards were chasing him. This allowed Ulfric to escape from Nordic justice, the Civil war sparked the Western Holds called him murderer and war broke out, the Legion was ordered to step in and bring stability to the region, they had trouble dealing with it so Tullius and a few Legates were dispatched to Skyrim at the request of the Emperor.

I asked for proof, some lore, not your view of it. I talked with court mage of solitude, I talked with thanes, they all say that they would stop ulfric from issuing a challenge by any means but once the challenge was issued they couldnt do anything.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I asked for proof, some lore, not your view of it. I talked with court mage of solitude, I talked with thanes, they all say that they would stop ulfric from issuing a challenge by any means but once the challenge was issued they couldnt do anything.

The proof is lacking since uesp doesn't record every single thing. Just play Skyrim and ask around, speak with many people around Skyrim. Piece it together, Torygg accepted the duel before anyone could stop him and then Ulfric shouted and killed the High King. He then ran out fleeing from Solitude at full speed back to Windhelm.

 

[Mookie]

The proof is lacking since uesp doesn't record every single thing. Just play Skyrim and ask around, speak with many people around Skyrim. Piece it together, Torygg accepted the duel before anyone could stop him and then Ulfric shouted and killed the High King. He then ran out fleeing from Solitude at full speed back to Windhelm.

Toryg accepted duel when challenge was issued. They didnt try to stop him, they would have stoped ulfric from using his right to issue a challenge if they knew. That is what they told me. And unless you have diferent dialogues than me they will say the same thing to you too.. Load up a game and go to solitude and ask again. I just did.

 

[Acid Raindrops]

Ulfric didn't walk out, he ran like a bat out of hell. The man fled out of the city at full speed.

Idk about you but id high tail it out of there too if I beat someone in an honest duel and then all the local citizens wanted to chop off my head, I really don't think they expected ulfric to defeat the high king, but ulfric proved his point, people just don't want to accept it, let the people of skyrim decide the leader, the imperials and thalmor can just get the fluff out, lol.

 

[Dagmar]

...Well, there isn't any true evidence to support he is racist...

Only if your willfully blind to what the game presents to you. Last time I checked, apartheid was a form of racism and as Jarl of Eastmarch he is enforcer in chief of the segregation laws of Windhelm.

This isn't the deciding factor for many who choose to join the Imperial Legion though. Because racism is so normative throughout Tamriel, both on an individual and an institutional level, a residential segregation policy is, in and of itself, a relatively mild form of racism. The players that can't get past this have problems with letting go of their contemporary real life values to immerse themselves into the game as a different character. For other players it's simple math. Three united provinces under the banner of the Empire have a stronger chance of success in the event of renewed conflict with the Aldmeri Dominion than two or one.

Lunaruse you should consider the fact that an independent Skyrim under Ulfric's rule, for all of his posturing, is never going to be in a position to launch an offensive against the Aldmeri Dominion on its own because it's geographically blocked from doing so.

Of all three incarnations of the Aldmeri Dominion, an Imperial Empire uniting several provinces of Tamriel under its banner was the only nation-state capable of conquering the Aldmeri Dominion (which it did twice - because of the never ending soap opera like nature of MMOG's it's highly probable that we will never have lore content as to how the First Aldmeri Dominion from the Elder Scrolls Online ceased to be). If you don't join the Imperial Legion it's probable that you may never see the day when the Aldmeri Dominion is defeated let alone have a role in it, but if you do join the Imperial Legion, you have to accept the possiblity that it could be decades before there's a breach or rescission of the White Gold-Concordat by either side that would lead to open hostilities.

As an Altmer, whose life span is measurable in centuries, it might make more sense to take the long view and join the Imperial Legion, especially if you want to join the side that is much more likely to engage the Aldmeri Dominion and more likely to succeed.

 

[Gearuvagen]

He couldn't refuse the challenge, Ulfric only challenged him because he knew he could beat him. Ulfric wouldn't dare fight someone on par with him. Torygg idealized the guy, how would you feel if your hero walked up to you challenged you to a duel. You pull out a sword and he shoots you in the face with a shotgun. (Sword vs Thu'um)

 

[DrunkenMage]

Toryg accepted duel when challenge was issued. They didnt try to stop him, they would have stoped ulfric from using his right to issue a challenge if they knew. That is what they told me. And unless you have diferent dialogues than me they will say the same thing to you too.. Load up a game and go to solitude and ask again. I just did.

Lore is view of it also. Though if you want what lore says on Ulfric by all means.

Little is known of Ulfric before 4E 176. He inherited the role of Jarl of Eastmarch from his father,[2] and carried on a rivalry with Jarl Balgruuf the Greater of Whiterun since they both were young. He studied under the Greybeards at High Hrothgar to learn how to use the thu'um.[1] He is branded a racist by some of his detractors, possibly because of his indifference to the situation of the Dunmer in Windhelm, his order forbidding Argonians from entering the city, and claims that he only concerns himself with issues in Eastmarch that affect the Nords of the Hold.

Ulfric led the militia to recapture the Reach, in what would become known as the Markarth Incident.[7] It is rumored that Ulfric used the thu'um to achieve this victory,[8] and he ultimately overthrew and captured the Forsworn leader, Madanach. When Markarth was returned to Imperial control, the free worship of Talos there was officially permitted, a condition Ulfric demanded before he agreed to cede control of the city.[7] Until then, the Imperial Legion had been largely ignoring Talos worship in Skyrim, but the Thalmor used the opportunity Ulfric provided to demand rigid adherence to the Concordat, and the Empire ultimately reneged on the agreement with Ulfric.[7][9][10] Thus the incident was a key factor in bringing about the Stormcloak Rebellion. Following the incident, Ulfric reportedly became uncooperative to direct contact with the Thalmor, and he was eventually deemed by them to be a dormant asset

Following the Markarth Incident, Ulfric was arrested. His father, The Bear of Eastmarch, died while Ulfric was imprisoned, and Ulfric was forced to deliver his eulogy via a letter that he had smuggled out of prison.[11] He was eventually set free and returned to Windhelm, where he took up his father's place as Jarl.[11] Upon the death of High King Istlod, the Moot was convened to formally name his son Torygg as the new High King. Though the Moot only convenes as a formality when a High King dies with a direct heir,[12] Ulfric used the forum to voice his desire for independence from the Empire. Torygg knew Ulfric as a war hero and respected him, and the daring he displayed during the Moot further impressed the younger Nord. Soon after, Ulfric traveled to Solitude to see the young High King. Torygg and his court believed Ulfric had come to further discuss his desire for Skyrim's independence, and welcomed him. By the time they realized Ulfric was there to challenge Torygg, it was too late to stop it. Under ancient Nordic traditions, Torygg had no choice but to accept Ulfric's challenge for the throne, lest he risk losing face for an act of cowardice, which would lead to a recall of the Moot and likely his deposal as High King.[13] Accounts differ on what happened next. According to Ulfric, he knocked Torygg to the ground with the thu'um, then dispatched him with a sword. Rumors circled amongst the people that Ulfric's shout literally tore the young High King to pieces.[1][14] Ulfric's supporters claimed that Torygg was a traitor to his people who deserved to die and Ulfric's victory rightfully made him the new High King.[14] Ulfric's detractors insist that there was nothing honorable about his challenge, and they view Torygg's death as unforgivable murder, as Torygg was of a young age while Ulfric was at his prime, and Ulfric did not exhaust diplomatic alternatives.[1] According to Sybille Stentor, Torygg likely would have given Ulfric's request to emancipate Skyrim from the Empire serious consideration, as he held Ulfric in high esteem.[13]

Ulfric managed to evade capture and fled back to Windhelm, where he called upon all "true" sons and daughters of Skyrim to join him in rebellion. As Jarls in the eastern holds flocked to his cause, all hope of avoiding war was lost. Eventually, in 4E 201, he was captured by Imperial forces, bound, gagged, and brought to Helgen for execution. However, a surprise attack by the ancient dragon Alduin, the World-Eater, devastated the town and created chaos.[1] Ulfric escaped back to Windhelm to continue his campaign, purportedly with the aid of the Thalmor, who wished for Ulfric's rebellion to continue so Skyrim would remain divided and distracted


Though Lore articles aren't always the best to use since it's sometimes the personal summary of one person through different sources. In the end though it's all about view.

 

[Mookie]

He couldn't refuse the challenge, Ulfric only challenged him because he knew he could beat him. Ulfric wouldn't dare fight some one on par with him. Torygg idealized the guy, how would you feel if your hero walked up to you challenged you to a duel. You pull out a sword and he shoots you in the face with a shotgun. (Sword vs Thu'um)

Same old Bull talk. Just because someone is weaker doesnt excuse him or gives him imunity. If it does then the best and most awesome thing would be to be a brain dead armless and leggless human being and as such put on the throne.
Toryg was unfit to rule, if he cant defend himself how can he defend skyrim. All you are pointing out is weaknesess of Toryg and reasons for him being unfit to rule.
He wasnt his hero. He respected him. That is all.

 

[Two Bears]

Torygg was unfit to rule because he didn't use the thu'um? That's kind of silly.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Same old Bull talk. Just because someone is weaker doesnt excuse him or gives him imunity. If it does then the best and most awesome thing would be to be a brain dead armless and leggless human being and as such put on the throne.
Toryg was unfit to rule, if he cant defend himself how can he defend skyrim. All you are pointing out is weaknesess of Toryg and reasons for him being unfit to rule.
He wasnt his hero. He respected him. That is all.

Defend Skyrim from what?

 

[Mookie]

Lore is view of it also. Though if you want what lore says on Ulfric by all means.

Little is known of Ulfric before 4E 176. He inherited the role of Jarl of Eastmarch from his father,[2] and carried on a rivalry with Jarl Balgruuf the Greater of Whiterun since they both were young. He studied under the Greybeards at High Hrothgar to learn how to use the thu'um.[1] He is branded a racist by some of his detractors, possibly because of his indifference to the situation of the Dunmer in Windhelm, his order forbidding Argonians from entering the city, and claims that he only concerns himself with issues in Eastmarch that affect the Nords of the Hold.

Ulfric led the militia to recapture the Reach, in what would become known as the Markarth Incident.[7] It is rumored that Ulfric used the thu'um to achieve this victory,[8] and he ultimately overthrew and captured the Forsworn leader, Madanach. When Markarth was returned to Imperial control, the free worship of Talos there was officially permitted, a condition Ulfric demanded before he agreed to cede control of the city.[7] Until then, the Imperial Legion had been largely ignoring Talos worship in Skyrim, but the Thalmor used the opportunity Ulfric provided to demand rigid adherence to the Concordat, and the Empire ultimately reneged on the agreement with Ulfric.[7][9][10] Thus the incident was a key factor in bringing about the Stormcloak Rebellion. Following the incident, Ulfric reportedly became uncooperative to direct contact with the Thalmor, and he was eventually deemed by them to be a dormant asset

Following the Markarth Incident, Ulfric was arrested. His father, The Bear of Eastmarch, died while Ulfric was imprisoned, and Ulfric was forced to deliver his eulogy via a letter that he had smuggled out of prison.[11] He was eventually set free and returned to Windhelm, where he took up his father's place as Jarl.[11] Upon the death of High King Istlod, the Moot was convened to formally name his son Torygg as the new High King. Though the Moot only convenes as a formality when a High King dies with a direct heir,[12] Ulfric used the forum to voice his desire for independence from the Empire. Torygg knew Ulfric as a war hero and respected him, and the daring he displayed during the Moot further impressed the younger Nord. Soon after, Ulfric traveled to Solitude to see the young High King. Torygg and his court believed Ulfric had come to further discuss his desire for Skyrim's independence, and welcomed him. By the time they realized Ulfric was there to challenge Torygg, it was too late to stop it. Under ancient Nordic traditions, Torygg had no choice but to accept Ulfric's challenge for the throne, lest he risk losing face for an act of cowardice, which would lead to a recall of the Moot and likely his deposal as High King.[13] Accounts differ on what happened next. According to Ulfric, he knocked Torygg to the ground with the thu'um, then dispatched him with a sword. Rumors circled amongst the people that Ulfric's shout literally tore the young High King to pieces.[1][14] Ulfric's supporters claimed that Torygg was a traitor to his people who deserved to die and Ulfric's victory rightfully made him the new High King.[14] Ulfric's detractors insist that there was nothing honorable about his challenge, and they view Torygg's death as unforgivable murder, as Torygg was of a young age while Ulfric was at his prime, and Ulfric did not exhaust diplomatic alternatives.[1] According to Sybille Stentor, Torygg likely would have given Ulfric's request to emancipate Skyrim from the Empire serious consideration, as he held Ulfric in high esteem.[13]

Ulfric managed to evade capture and fled back to Windhelm, where he called upon all "true" sons and daughters of Skyrim to join him in rebellion. As Jarls in the eastern holds flocked to his cause, all hope of avoiding war was lost. Eventually, in 4E 201, he was captured by Imperial forces, bound, gagged, and brought to Helgen for execution. However, a surprise attack by the ancient dragon Alduin, the World-Eater, devastated the town and created chaos.[1] Ulfric escaped back to Windhelm to continue his campaign, purportedly with the aid of the Thalmor, who wished for Ulfric's rebellion to continue so Skyrim would remain divided and distracted


Though Lore articles aren't always the best to use since it's sometimes the personal summary of one person through different sources. In the end though it's all about view.

This is more acceptable. Yet there is no note of runing from the city.
Also thuum tearing Toryg to pieces is lies, You as dovakhin are unable to do that without help from a daedric prince. So Ulfrics story is more plausible.

 

[Mookie]

Defend Skyrim from what?

From any posible threat. Present of future.

 

[Gearuvagen]

Fled back to windhelm.....define flee

 

[DrunkenMage]

From any posible threat. Present of future.

Threat from where? Skyrim is rather isolated.