I see a lot of twisting my argument around, fair enough. Two can play.
Twisting your words implies you lack bias. I'm just saying it how I see it.
Show me the examples of the Empire being Totalitarian. Where they seek to control all aspects of private and public life. Oh, right you can't because the Totalitarian argument stems from politicians trying to put Communists and Facists into one group.
I don't know, I always thought banning Talos was part of controlling someone's life. But, if that doesn't count then persecution of the Jews don't count either. >:C
Actually, mainly because they were largely against the Nine Divines and found Imperials to be uptight pricks because all they did was work and visit the chapel of Talos.
Hitting things with an axe doesn't count? Hairy cows? Drinking, singing, and fighting (not always in that order)? The Nords haven't been this Nordly in AGES.
So the Stormcloaks aren't disciplined? They don't get any form of training? Tullius is using Militia, so why is it only an excuse for Ulfric?
Who said anything about Ulfric? I was talking about that Colovian Warlord Emperor of yours, but yeah, I get your point. Ulfric also has former Legionnaires. Tullius also trains his troops, too (even if they are local). If I remember, you don't go through the same stuff the regular recruit does in the Imperial go through. And the Stormcloaks make sure you can actually go kill something. They're looking for less than the common rabble, and the common rabble will get wrecked to a mudcrab. They also have dedication and fervor on their side, not fighting for a throne (except Ulfric) they're fighting for their homes and gods. And when God is on your side, how can you lose?
Yes, he wrecked the boy King. Too cowardly to face Istlod, aye?
Right, the only thing more dangerous than a boy is an old, weak, and feeble man. Noted.
Just because Ulfric is a good warrior, doesn't mean he's a good King. Tiber Septim was an effective ruler, Titus also.
What has Ulfric done besides the Civil War? His city requires segregation, mark of a good ruler?
Franklin D. Roosevelt sent the Japanese to concentration camps, and you see people fanboy all over him. Point?
That being said, Ulfric hasn't spent any time being High King. Torygg spent more time at it than him and he was exploded. What has Titus done beside give in to Aldmeri demands and get assassinated like a champ? What did Tiber Septim do beside become a god after butchering half the continent?
Well... Becoming a god is pretty metal, but still. We don't know him for his medical reforms, just his conquest. Warriors tend to be Tamriel's Rock Stars.
I'm sure, getting captured and outsmarted must always be a fluke. Maybe the Aldmeri Dominion nearly destroying the Empire was a fluke too.
Good theory. Maybe the war was a fluke. And you just judged Ulfric over a smaller fluke than losing an entire war and accepting the Elven demands that they provided at the start?
I don't know, Ulfric doesn't seem as much a fluff up as Emperor Mede.
He didn't expect a Military General to know what he was doing? Or didn't expect Tullius to know what Ulfric was doing?
Ambushes aren't easy to do when the Thalmor are alerting the Stormcloaks to it, and they slip away. Setting up an ambush requires knowledge of enemy movements, and when you're capturing the enemy leader? Is that really easy to do?
If you don't mind, I'd like a link to that. The Thalmor haven't been able to contact Ulfric directly for some time, if they try telling him I doubt he'd believe them... but before I make any theories, links or it never happened.
Tullius is using locals, Rikke calls them Militia. So when Tullius uses militia they're soldiers, but when Ulfric uses them it is a rabble. Are you telling me Ulfric is that pl***? He'd have knowledge of legionary tactics, fighting style and ability. His has ex Legionaries also, shouldn't he have the upper hand?
So when he created the Stormcloaks years ago. Did they all just sit around wanking instead of training? Yeah, I can see them smashing the Aldmeri Dominion when they decide to invade.
They knew they were going to die. The punishment for treason is death.
You seem to forget, Tullius is part of a nation. He should have funding of the Empire, even if they don't have the support. Everything is official to their lists, the Stormcloaks are just an uprising. The fact that you're saying they're more is a sign. You view them more than what Tullius does, you see them as a rising power.
There is hope for you, Mage.
Or not, as you did say you were going to try to twist my words around. Doesn't seem like its working, eh? Amateur Hour at the Tops tonight.
Of course it is biased. The Empire surrenders for the first time in two Eras. It is weak, cowardly and should be destroyed. Ulfric Stormcloak surrenders without barely a fight to General Tullius, god damn hero trying to save lives. (Even though they would be killed, either in Skyrim or Cyrodiil)
Right, but Ulfric has a history of being captured. He knows what he's doing, he's a professional unlike your God King Midas. Or Mede, I forget. He probably should have... you know. Tried bargaining a little with the treaty, saying "Sorry, I can't do this, but I can do the rest of it!" or something. No, he lies down and takes it like a bitch (which became the Empire's new policy, it seems like when Tullius tries to surrender while hiding behind a woman. A large, hairy woman, but a woman nonetheless.)
Alright, he was captured twice. By his enemies.
Yes it was a good achievement, Nordic militia filled with ex legion soldiers vs Reachmen with no military training, zero tactics and being sent flying by the Thu'um. Yeah, I can see it was a close match indeed.
They were able to take the city and were defending. Sieges are a pain in the ass for the attacker, and a lot of time the defenders can hold their own (ie Thermopylae, Candia, Waterloo, Puebla etc). If I remember correctly, its also referred to a "Handful of Nord Militia" or something, so they were probably outnumbered. And, of course, the Thu'um is great too.
If you want a fair fight, avoid conflict. Just saying.
No. But Ulfric and his soldiers don't seem to care about him threatening them in the streets. They must not have any control, because apparently Nords can't be forced to do things according to another Stormcloak supporter in this thread.
I'm sure of it. Though, I doubt Ulfric actually knows. Understand, there is a war going on. There was a killer on the streets and they had a hard time handling that as it is. Not everyone can have the funding of the Empire, Gaaaawd!
But, more seriously, does he ACTUALLY kidnap any Elves? No, he's all hat and no cattle, why you getting your jimmies in a knot over something like this and not the persecution of the Empire's citizens? Your priorities need reworking.
Stormcloaks are not so bright, wearing Imperial armor makes them call you a spy. Guess the EETC Mercenaries are our secret agents.
If you're talking about that one bitch up North and her armored manservant, then you're right that the Stormcloaks shouldn't call them spies. But I will call them stupid for wearing the uniform of the enemy in broad daylight. You would have been lynched in WWII if you were an SS uniform in Brooklyn, they're lucky that the Nords in Skyrim are more tolerant and less warlike.
Forgive me, I didn't mean to grasp. How mistaken I was to believe that the brother of Ulfric's best friend, housecarl and brother in arms... Would have any sort of pull with Jarl Ulfric.
I forgive you. Don't do it again.
The next war would most likely start after Mede's death.
Then what we waiting for? Invade already, everyone is thinking there ain't no cotton up them manskirts of yers!
And the heir of Tiber Septim died, praying in the temple. Surrounded by Blades, surrounded by an entire city of soldiers. Being Emperor is rarely safe.
Weeeeeeell, the last assassination was a while back... Just saying, so it used to be kinda safe.
How is Falkreath a port city? Do you require a map? Stormcloak logic at it's finest.
I may have been thinking of the guy in the pale, same voice actor. Sue me if you're bitter about it, but the point still stands that there is still a chance they crossed paths. Don't QQ all over this thread about it.
How many Grand Marshall's of the Imperial Legion can you name? How many Jarls of Solitude can you directly name? How many High Kings in the Third and Fourth Era could you name?
Just because we're not informed, doesn't mean they're peasants unworthy of any thought.
Maybe to you, but I tend to be more apathetic about what a man sits in. Let him say something interesting, then we can talk about who is who.
Stormcloaks =/= Nords of Skyrim. There are Nords standing against Ulfric Stormcloak.
That's like calling people the Borg have taken "Trusted Humans"
Not at all. It has nothing to do with supporting Elisif, she isn't promised to be High Queen. Ulfric isn't allowing the Moot to meet until he controls all of Skyrim, so yeah easy win for Ulfric.
So Ulfric refusing to allow the Moot to meet, is that showing his true political weakness? He can't take a chance? He can't risk to lose becoming High King?
If she isn't promised to be High Queen, then how come someone who isn't Ulfric hasn't decided to claim it for themselves? Right, because the Empire practically promises it for her, I forgot about this Nepotism. What would happen if Balgruuf decided to claim it? The Empire would invade him too? Is nothing sacred to the Empire?
Guess not, after forsaken precious Talos... Pity.
His Court are opposed to the Stormcloaks. His citizens also believe he'll go Imperial.
"I don't think he likes either Ulfric or Elisif much. Who can blame him? But I've no doubt he'll prove loyal to the Empire in the end. He's no traitor." - Alvor
"He's been trying to stay out of the war, but it can't last. He's going to have to pick a side. I'm afraid he's going to make the wrong choice." - Gerdur
Not by choice. He put it off for the longest time, and both choices sound bad to him (which is smart, don't get me wrong). However, if it was Ulfric against Elisif and not the Empire and their Puppet, then Ulfric wouldn't need that Bush strategy of "You're with or against us" because he probably would have beaten Solitude already. So, Balgruuf may have stayed Neutral the entire time? Why conquer something you don't need to? Combine that with the fact that half his citizens go Imperial, they probably wouldn't lest the Empire were there.
Just saying, Balgruuf didn't need to get an axe delivered to him. He made his choice to go Imperial, now he has to sleep in the bed he made.
Learn why Titus Mede stepped up. Then comment. Torygg isn't anything like Emperor Thules the Gibbering.
I take it Emperor Thules didn't explode. Well, he has a one up on Torygg.
No. I won't even bother with this one.
Pleeeeeeeease, I can't sleep at night unless you're thoroughly annoyed and bothered! :C
The Aldmeri are not looking for war? Of all the things posted in this thread, that ranks up next to that Stormcloak supporter who was here ages ago and said the Imperials were hiding lore.
Show me where the Aldmeri aren't looking for a war?
"It is more like the calm between storms. And the next storm, I think, will be far deadlier than the last." - Ondolemar
Background: Ulfric first came to our attention during the First War Against the Empire, when he was taken as a prisoner of war during the campaign for the White-Gold Tower. - Thalmor Dossier: Ulfric Stormcloak
"There's no worse enemy to humankind in Tamriel. The Empire barely survived the last war. The Thalmor don't intend to lose the next one." - Delphine
There can be no doubt that the current peace cannot last forever. The Thalmor take the long view, as is proved by the sequence of events leading up to the Great War. All those who value freedom over tyranny can only hope that before it is too late, Hammerfell and the Empire will be reconciled and stand united against the Thalmor threat. Otherwise, any hope to stem the tide of Thalmor rule over all of Tamriel is dimmed. - The Great War (Book)
The Thalmor want to create a new Merethic Era. Where elves had ruled Tamriel.
Sworn enemies of the Empire and everything it stands for.
The Thalmor are good, they're not going to do anything. They're happy and fine. Heard it from Ozan himself, which destroys every single Stormcloak support in this thread. Thalmor are peaceful and will only attack from Imperial Aggression.
... Lol. Yeah, Ulfric kills High King Torygg declares war against the Western Holds, seeks to kick out the Empire. Legion steps in to end the rebellion, obvious Imperial aggression.
Wait, so the Thalmor are bad and they want to enslave all humanity and you're letting them into your country so they can kill your subjects?! What the hell were you thinking?! Why don't you fight back?!
Oh, right, you won't because the Empire is too busy being useless. Sounds like the Stormcloaks will have to do it for you (and for just Skyrim, unfortunately).
What of it? There isn't a welfare system in Tamriel. Some people become soldiers to earn money for their family.
When a poor man exploits the system, he is called a criminal. When a rich man exploits the system, he is called an efficient businessman. Gee, I wonder why!
What are you even on about? You're talking out of your ass now. If the Stormcloaks are so good, why is their poverty under their rule too? Should they be fl*ffing Communists, because everyone should be equal earning the same, living the same?
When little ole Windhelm has the tax rate of the remaining bits of the Empire, then lets take a moment to talk about this. Until then, maybe the Empire should consider communism. I mean, they're already red and their people are being dragged out of their houses in the middle of the night. Emperor Josef Mede, at your service, Comrade!
Ooooh, Commissar Tullius sound far more interesting than boring ole Legate...
Name me the number of wars fought by Cyrodiil, then name me the number fought by Skyrim and the Nords.
Do death dealing weapons of mass destruction count as wars?
"What I fear, is that the Thalmor will see our victory here and turn greater attention to our shores." - Ulfric Stormcloak
Guess Ulfric and the Stormcloaks are no better than them lying Imperials.
Wait, didn't you always say he was an agent for the Thalmor? Why the hell would he care about the Thalmor invading if they were in cahoots?
Ah, well. That being said, if the Elves invade Skyrim, then Cyrodiil invades them while they're busy. Then you get to win that precious "SECOND GREAT WAR!!!" business the Imperials are always on about.
Though, that'd be unlikely. After all, they're interested in not just Skyrim but fluffing EVERYWHERE in Tamriel. So, I'm pretty sure they'll still invade Cyrodiil first. So, its not too bad if you think about it (unless you decided to go Imperial. Just saying)
