Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?
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DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
People in this thread, glad to see someone actually agrees with me about the Thu'um not being everything.
Many people make a pilgrimage to High Hrothgar, doesn't mean he tried to become a Greybeard.
Medieval guards and soldiers aren't the best of the best. Many of them are just doing it because they needed work, sure you have some who are in it for a sense of duty. Anyone can become a guard and soldier, there is conscription at times.
Actually past TES games have shown guards and soldiers who aren't very courageous, or with much ambition. There are many who would put their own life before others, not every soldier you come across is this flag saluting, ready to die for the cause etc.
After Ulfric killed Torygg in the challenge, he tried to escape the city, and Roggvir again opened the gate for him. Accounts of the incident vary wildly among the citizens; most claim that he was an accomplice in the murder. - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Roggvir
"Roggvir. You helped Ulfric Stormcloak escape this city after he murdered High King Torygg. By opening that gate for Ulfric you betrayed the people of Solitude." - Aldis
"He opened a gate and the wrong man rode out of it. If that man hadn't been Ulfric Stormcloak. If Ulfric hadn't killed High King Torygg... But it was Ulfric. And he did kill the High King, in honorable combat. My brother refused to allow the the Imperials to take revenge for the deed. So now he's dead." - Greta
They were chasing after Ulfric.
Books into history, law, people etc.
'Slayer of Kings' which is what the Nords sing, it is a Nordic song as it mentions Sovngarde. Both sides sing the similar song.
According to Ulfric, he challenged Torygg for the right to be High King, knocked him to the ground with the thu'um, then dispatched him with a sword. Some others say Ulfric "shouted him to pieces" or "ripped him asunder". The Empire and a number of the Jarls, however, viewed the killing of Torygg not as the result of an honorable duel, but as murder, due to the fact that Torygg was of a young age while Ulfric was at his prime, and that Ulfric had not exhausted his diplomatic solutions. - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:High_King_Torygg
According to the Imperial General Tullius, Ulfric assassinated the High King of Skyrim with the Thu'um in an effort to ignite an uprising against the Empire's rule over Skyrim. However, according to Ulfric, he challenged him to one-on-one combat in the old Nord way, only using the Thu'um to put him on the ground, then killing him with his sword. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ulfric_Stormcloak
There are two sides to the coin. Not everything is black and white truth.
Ulfric is charged with this. "You are guilty of insurrection, murder of Imperial citizens, the assassination of King Torygg, and high treason against the Empire." - Tullius
Quick? It took four years of warfare, the destruction of more than half the Imperial Army and Cyrodiil completely in flames. It wasn't just the soldiers who died in the Great War.
"Men, women, children, no one was spared my wrath. I destroyed whole villages." - Runil
Raijin, after having met Titus II personally. Does he strike you as the man who cares only for his throne?
In fact, if you accept his request you can return to Motierre and say there is one more thing "Just a favor... for an honorable man."
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
Mikulas Black-Blade
The Cave Bear
In case you haven't noticed throughout the holds the Jarls handle official business like murders and arson. You have to speak to them about it first, and you don't speak to Ulfric, but rather His steward. Also no they don't, Ambarys makes it very clear he wants his needs put above everything the Jarl is doing right now:
"I tried to get Ulfric to even come down here to see the squalor, but the High Lord of His Mightiness couldn't find the time."
Apparently, he doesn't understand the consequence of Ulfric's position, and why he can't find the time to deal with such trivial disputes. I'm pretty sure if it was just about acknowledgement, then they wouldn't be complaining so much about the "terrible conditions of the Gray Quarter"
Sounds more Breton to me, either way it makes what I'm trying to say clear.
The Jarl's also the head military commander, in a currently raging civil war, So they're going to have to realize that their current issues are not going to be met. Seriously though, the Dunmer have enough money to own and maintain businesses but not enough money to buy a hammer and some nails and wood an fix those "run down buildings". I call Bullplops
JARL Ulfric currently has to run a city and an Army at the same time. Maybe things are different over in Solitude where you have a separate Jarl and a Military Governor, but at the same time I don't really care. KING Ulfric won't have to deal with such trivialities.
No, they just turn a blind eye. If they were propagating it, You wouldn't be able to join if you weren't a Nord, and Ulfric makes it clear he doesn't care what you are as long as you fight with honor and integrity
That, again proves nothing about him being "Racist". He clearly states "He has larger issues at hand" and frankly, he does. The Nord mentality on hardship is: "fight for it or work through it." And most of the Dunmer seem to just complain, which will drive a Nord like Ulfric bloody mad
What are you talking about? Brunwulf said this:
"I'll speak to Ulfric soon, but I make no promises that I can change his mind."
Again this is a huge deal. If you were in love with someone, would you allow her/him to be Racist when you are a clear advocate for racial equality? Somehow I don't think so.
Tell me where they can live. Seriously, point me to a spot they can live that won't just fluff them over even more. How about across the street from the Dun- oh right slavery. Well Ok! How about near the Nor- oh yeah racism. Gee it looks like the assemblage is the best place for them.
I never said he was lying, but to be honest I'm pretty sure the war did things to his head, besides those bandits threaten everyone, they don't just prey on minorities.
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DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Jarls administer justice, and use others to handle things like murder and arson. Hence with bounties or in the case of Dawnguard's 'Writ of Dawn' the consent of a Jarl to enact justice.
Stewards run the day to day operations of the Hold, not the Jarl. The Jarl is just the judge.
He is under Ulfric's care, as a citizen of Eastmarch. What is wrong about trying to get the Jarl to have a look at his concerns? Ulfric unable to find time for "trivial disputes" such as the living conditions of quarter of his entire city... Why should he be High King? The Jarl's first duty is to the people in his city and Hold.
Ulfric dismissing them, and airing his disdain about their concerns doesn't help the situation. It is about acknowledgement, which Ulfric won't do. He dismisses them entirely, focusing only on Nords in his Stormcloak rebellion.
Murder =/= City condition. Unable to spare more guards to the investigation and acknowledging unrest for quarter of his city is another thing entirely. His Steward tries to bring it up, but Ulfric dismisses them.
Galmar handles the Military, he has Galmar for a reason. He also has a Steward which could also do things on his behalf... But no, he isn't used much, he makes it fairly clear "For Ulfric? Oh, nothing official."
... Yeah, get some nails and wood to fix stonework and city planning. I'm sure the magical hammer can work wonders. Maybe while they're at it, they'll build an indoor heated pool.
If I gave you a hammer, some nails and planks of wood. Would you be able to repair a building made of stone?
Why can't Ulfric just go "The Gray Quarter will be named Snow Quarter once more"
Jarl Ulfric barely runs his city, his steward doesn't even do anything official on Ulfric's behalf. What is the point of Galmar? He's the General of the Stormcloak army.
Though he apparently sucks at Military work too. "Sometimes I wonder if Ulfric understands what I'm dealing with out here." - Galmar
King Ulfric... He will still be Jarl of Eastmarch, he will still have a city under his care.
"Blasted dark elves. I don't suppose you could tell them that I presently have larger concerns? Such as all of Skyrim?"
I guess his excuse still works even when he becomes King.
Stormcloaks are more than just the soldiers, their supporters with money count too.
What Ulfric does and what his soldiers/supporters do are two different things. They are propagating it, you see it in several of the cities they control. From their supporters, and their soldiers.
Orc Strongholds are "an affront to my people" according to the Windhelm guards.
Disdain, the word is disdain. Clearly there.
"Blasted dark elves. I don't suppose you could tell them that I presently have larger concerns? Such as all of Skyrim?"
Still would apply if he becomes High King, how about that.
The Dunmer all work, they do more work than most people in the city. Same as the Argonians. Ulfric ignores their concerns, he has no interest in them. He simply doesn't care, if he did he would just acknowledge them. He can find the time to go pray to Talos, I'm sure he can find time to spend ten minutes with the Dunmer.
Soon, doesn't make the next time he sees Ulfric. Skyrim is locked in the same repeating time in-game, unless events change it. Such as player actions.
Has nothing with "allowing" love is love. When you love someone enough, you can actually see past faults, even if you believe differently to them. Perhaps he feels he could change her mind, who knows. The man loves her, and what does it matter if he does?
Is loving this woman, make him a closet racist? Gives him some hidden agenda? Not really.
Well they must have lived someonewhere before Ulfric banished. They weren't all fluffing beggars on the streets.
Over two hundred years ago... Why doesn't this have an affect on Riften? Why aren't they segregated there? In fact why was an Argonian supposed to drink in the Dunmer Cornerclub (Doesn't due to schedule error). If they hate each other so much, if they will kill each other, or enslave one another. Why the hell would they drink together? Oh right that requires logical thinking... Forgot.
Only people doing slavery are you Stormcloaks.
Racism coming from the Nords who think as Ulfric does, apparently. Stormcloaks and their prejudice.
Yeah, forcing people to live in one spot because of their race. How long until King Ulfric makes that the norm?
Make him a good Jarl? Shame the war didn't have the same effect on Ulfric. But then the Thalmor broke and remade Ulfric, so who knows what they did to his head.
Apparently those bandits didn't threaten Nord land.
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DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
"General Tullius, stop! By the authority of the Thalmor, I’m taking custody of these prisoners."
"Your Emperor will hear of this. By the terms of the White-Gold Concordat, I operate with full Imperial authority!"
"You’re making a terrible mistake!"
Legion trying to execute you was better than the alternative.
Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
Please don't mistake me regarding to the Dragonborn's version of the Thu'um as they're 10 to 100x stronger than an average nord who manage to master the Thu'um without being the Dragonborn. Miraak even acknowledged ""I know things the Greybeards will never teach you.". Which means that theirs even more to learn then what the Greybeard are teaching the Dragonborn. The fact that theirs even 4 letter shouts, or possible 5.
I didn't say that he wanted to become a greybeard... Just wanted to learn how to master the Thu'um, but was unable to. Not everyone has the ability to do it. Ulfric managed to be successful... which is probably why Balgruuf became resentful of him and his success.
Are you downright telling me that Skyrim's guards are cowards and fearful? That is what I am reading from your post. I find it hard to believe that every guard and Solider in Solitude was fearful of Ulfric because of his Thu'um. Guards and soldiers deals with rouge mages all the time.
The whole situation with Roggvir stinks and here's why http://colonelkillabee.tumblr.com/post/71467227749/new-stormcloak-bible-addition-link-to-the-rest-of
After meeting with Titus Mede II I cannot make the judgement of him only caring for his throne as I didn't get to know him on a personal level, but business.... on Dark Brotherhood quest.
Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
At least I would die with pleasure
Elenwen has access to those kinky torture dungeon chambers in her basement 
Yimir Skallagrimson
Member
You can't prove a negative.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Which is unproven. Making a pilgrimage doesn't mean he tried to become a Greybeard.
Not at all, but there would be those that are. All of Windhelm's guards won't even go near the Arentino (sp?) house, Morthal's guards won't investigate the house fire.
According to dialogue by both pro Stormcloak and pro Imperial, the soldiers/guards were chasing after Ulfric and he had escaped with the aid of Roggvir.
Interesting read, yet still explainable.
Roggvir knew exactly what he was doing.
"There was no murder! Ulfric challenged Torygg. He beat the High King in fair combat."
He isn't denying his part, in fact he reinforces the belief he knew damn well what he was doing.
"Roggvir. He opened a gate and they executed him for it. He opened a gate and the wrong man rode out of it. If that man hadn't been Ulfric Stormcloak. If Ulfric hadn't killed High King Torygg... But it was Ulfric. And he did kill the High King, in honorable combat. My brother refused to allow the the Imperials to take revenge for the deed. So now he's dead."
Ulfric was being chased after, and Roggvir didn't allow them to capture Ulfric. Thus opening the gate. Reinforced by his own family.
Now onto the issue about other gates, why would the furthest gate be closed? Orders would not have been issued that fast, as to reach outside the city walls. That gate isn't even closed when the city is under siege/during the war.
Now as for the Armistice he mentions down the bottom, that was established by Tiber Septim aka Talos. I personally enjoy the fact he omits the Empire through King Hlaalu Helseth actually ended slave trade. The slaves were set free, and returned to their native provinces.
If he cared for his throne, why wouldn't he beg? Why not ask for mercy or a chance to keep his throne? If he apparently bowed before the Thalmor to merely keep his throne, why stop at pleading to an assassin for hire? The man could have offered more gold than you could imagine. Man faced death with the same dignity of Uriel VII.
During the winter of 4E 174-175, the Thalmor seem to have believed that the war in Cyrodiil was all but over. They made several attempts to negotiate with Titus II.
Why wouldn't he go for their peace offers during the war? Become a puppet, and figurehead. Like Stormcloaks claim.
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Rimfaxe96
Well-Known Member
This meme doesn't mention that Rikke is one of the few smart folk who do it secretly. Do you have to wear an amulet around your neck? Do you have to do your daily walk to a Shrine of Talos before and after work? Nope, you could just quietly pray at home or some other ritual stuff that doesn't attract suspicion. Too bad Ulfric is too stupid for that.
"I don't know about you, Tekla, but all my prayers are silent and who I pray to is still my own to decide." - Narri
Lewsean
Member
Still missing the point that people shouldn't have to hide their religion, especially at the command of the Emperor many of your kinsman died for. Sick of hearing people blame the Nords for worshipping Talos and giving the Imperials a free pass for the actual enforcing of the ban. Like I said before, if someone had a gun pointed at them and were told not to move, but they did so and were killed, the Imperials are the type of people who would blame the victim for moving, instead of the monster for the killing.
This meme doesn't mention that Rikke is one of the few smart folk who do it secretly. Do you have to wear an amulet around your neck? Do you have to do your daily walk to a Shrine of Talos before and after work? Nope, you could just quietly pray at home or some other ritual stuff that doesn't attract suspicion. Too bad Ulfric is too stupid for that.
"I don't know about you, Tekla, but all my prayers are silent and who I pray to is still my own to decide." - Narri
Rimfaxe96
Well-Known Member
It wasn't only Nords who died in the Great War, plenty of Imperials died too. And people from all races who are joined under the Imperial banner. And if this little ban hadn't been enforced, it wouldn't just have been your camerads dying, but also their families and everyone who remained alive would be living the life of a slave.
Obviously this is the part that doesn't want to get into the head of Stormcloak supporters. Blame the Emperor all you like, in the end this man kept you alive so you were able to fight another day - his only mistake is that he underestimated people's stupidity, people like Ulfric using a not-well liked new rule to gain the upper hand, not realizing or caring what they're about to sacrifice here - their whole freedom, not just freedom of religion.
Besides, seeing how others are saying the Empire is intolerant; you do realize that it were Nords who in the past put priests on a stake and burned them alive and destroyed religious monuments, right? It is the Empire that allowed worship of basically anything (except perhaps the old Gods from the Reach people, since some of them sacrifice people to become hagravens for example).
Lewsean
Member
Yes and what did the Imperials sacrifice? The Empire has a history of treating provinces as expendable, Morrowind, Hammerfell, Valenwood(Currently going through a phase of ethnic cleansing, where's the Empire to help them?) and now Skyrim.. This strange concept that the Empire is the only thing capable of stopping the Thalmor and Skyrim is doomed without it, is quite frankly ridiculous. Ulfric's support is mostly from the way the Empire is treating Skyrim, not from the Talos ban(Well, they're sort of two in the same). Manipulating it's own citizens then arresting/sentencing them to death is what's caused the uprising, Imperials seem to forget it was the PEOPLE who sat Ulfric on the throne and cried out for justice/war, he didn't plonk him self on the throne and demand it from them.
Rimfaxe96
Well-Known Member
The Imperials too sacrificed their right to worship Talos. I'm pretty sure the Thalmor are enforcing the ban in Cyrodiil as well. The Empire's "headquarters" is in Cyrodiil, so they'll defend Cyrodiil first of course? Besides, it wouldn't have changed the outcome in Oblivion if it hadn't been for Martin Septim - an IMPERIAL. Without his sacrifice Tamriel would have been overrun and conquered by Daedra. And, Valenwood? Seriously? Valenwood is Dominion territory. If even a single soldier stepped foot over the border he would be 1.) killed on the spot and 2.) the war would be back on. Remember that Valenwood is not an Imperial province anymore, and neither are Elsweyr/Anequina & Pelletine and the Summerset Isles/Alinor.
Ulfric was never supported by the people (even in Stormcloak territory there are plenty of NPCs who just want peace judging from their dialogue), just his personal army and a few idiots who couldn't keep their mouth shut. Well done, now there's an increased Thalmor presence and there you go, they are driving more members for your little club into Ulfric's arms.
Since it's pretty well known that the Thalmor want to rule Tamriel, and need to defeat the other provinces to achieve that goal, have you ever thought why they are doing their inquisitions? And why many Stormcloaks have a family member "gone missing"? Do you really think the Thalmor would give a damn about what necklaces people are wearing on the other side of the continent if it wouldn't serve them somehow?
Lewsean
Member
Yes they will defend Cyrodill first, and Ulfric wants to defend Skyrim first.. Why is what's okay for the Empire not okay for Skyrim? I am very, very confident that more of Skyrim is against the Empire than for it, Falkreath's Jarl was replaced by a corupt Imperial Jarl, Markarth is owned by Stormcloak supporters, Whiterun is on the fence until Tullius sends false reports, and Morthal doesn't give a damn lol.. Solitude is perhaps the only staunch supporter of the Empire, and even they have citizens that don't like you, hell your armor maker isn't even an Empire supporter lol. Valenwood is now Dominion territory BECAUSE of the Empires ignorance leading up to the great war, which has lead to, like I said before, an ethnic cleansing.. The Thalmor don't want to rule Tamriel, they're attempting to re-attain their supposed Divine status, by cutting off Talos/Lorkhan's hold on Mundus, to do this they need to abolish all Talos/Lorkhan worship so he ceases to exist as a God thus destroying Nirn completely. You're obviously very confused as to what their end game is...
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LegateFasendil
Imperial Legate
Hey man ~ She thinks he's a fool for trying to break Skyrim away from the Empire, among other things. To the best of my knowledge I've never heard her say Ulfric was a fool for fighting for what he believes in.
You're just mad because here's a Talos worshipper who still has faith in the Empire. Leg Rikke is proof that Talos worship w/ the WGC could work. Besides this, Gen Tully at the end is on his way to discuss the matter of Talos worship with the Emperor or... Elder Council I should say. Like you said man Septim is on every Septim, ban on Talos is like the war on drugs man, it will never work.
