Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[DrunkenMage]

You notice how Brunwulf mentions the word "refugees" when referencing to the Dunmer in his statement. Hes not talking about the Dunmers who are living in his city but outside. When he mentions the Argonians he can't possibly be talking about the ones living in his city, and Khajiit caravan? Their not even citizens of Skyrim. They pay no taxes so why should Ulfric waste men fighting a group of marauders on a group who doesn't contribute jack to the community? In fact the Khajiit caravan are barred from entering inside ALL of the cities in Skyrim (Including the Imperial controlled cities) for their high involvement of high crime and drugs. In fact theirs one who is already smashed on Skooma, and complains of the withdrawal symptoms.

The Nord villeges that Ulfrc sends men to help from the bandits pay their taxes. They help pay for salary of the guards, and soldiers.

Brunwulf is just another left-wing liberal, nothing more. Think that those who don't pay taxes should be given the same equality as those who do pay taxes.

"Just as long as you don't target those who pay taxes, slaughter and pillage all you want!"

How many pay taxes in Skyrim? Do you know who is even eligible for taxes?

 

[DrunkenMage]

I'm trying to say that three Nord women were murdered yet Ulfric didn't do anything about it because of the War just like he doesn't do anything about the Dunmer situation because of The War.

What is he supposed to do about a murder? He has guards for that. The Dunmer situation just requires acknowledgement. All they ask is their concerns are looked at.

Three Nord women? Thought it was two and possibly an Altmer. Didn't think Isabelle was a Nord name?

Do you really need to complain to the Jarl about broken Stonework and hopes in your floor if you're a refugee or are you just completely lazy.

Where are you getting holes in the floor?

"You've seen how we live -- cramped alleys, run-down buildings, few guard patrols. Even the name 'Gray Quarter' is an insult."

They do need to go to the Jarl, he rules the city and maintenance would be under his charge.

Well then he defies a portion of his army and supporters, and he needs all the help he can get in that regard

If he can't rule even handed and can't speak up for the nine other races, what business does he have being High King.

He can't just put Rolff into line for talking, that could be seen as oppression of his own people, which is the reason he's fighting he war in the first place. These issues are very minimal compared to the war.

Stormcloaks fight against Thalmor discrimination and elven supremacy. While they're propagating discrimination and Nord supremacy through their supporters.

Because it was Ulfric's administration that didn't allow them to live in Windhelm

Exactly it was Ulfric.

Ulfric never speaks about his disdain for the Dark Elves.

Actually he does. His disdain is obvious there.

Jorleif: "Sir, there continues to be unrest in the Gray Quarter."
Ulfric: "Blasted dark elves. I don't suppose you could tell them that I presently have larger concerns? Such as all of Skyrim?"
Jorleif: "They don't seem to be very sympathetic to our cause, sir."
Ulfric: "Let me know if you hear anything more substantial?"
Jorleif: "Of course, my lord."

He literally just said that he wants to help the Dark Elves

And he does, when he's the Jarl he already takes steps to discuss plans.

Because he's in the Palace of the Kings he's obviously supposed to be talking to Ulfric about the Dark Elves and never does.

Why? He mentions his conversations with Ulfric in past tense, i.e before we arrived to the city.

Political Views aren't as big as views on Racial Equality. Almost always when you have someone like Brunwulf, who is a huge proponent for Dunmer and Argonian equality, paired with someone like Elda Early Dawn, who's views on the refugees are less than stellar, love will not be in the air.

Love is strange. Besides neither of them discuss that subject with each other. Brunwulf is or was if he becomes Jarl trying to get her away from Windhelm. To go live in the Rift it would seem.

Well isn't it possible that Ulfric also thinks the same thing but can't do anything about it because of the War

That they have to remain outside from people who think as he does? It was Ulfric who banished them in the first place, I don't think he had real plans to bring them back inside.

He's the only one who says Ulfric doesn't help Khajiit caravans and Argonian Groups, so I don't take his word very seriously.

He doesn't have a real reason to lie, and he sends you to the bandit location in Eastmarch. If he was just talking out of his ass, I don't think he would have sent you after the bandits who threaten non-Nords.

 

[LegateFasendil]

It's alright mate. A lot of people tend to think I'm hostile sometimes. Y'get used to it.

The Empire has been fighting against bandits, forsworn, and many others besides just the people they were sent to take down. Not sure where you're getting the idea the empire doesn't help anyone when the soldiers do aid you against many enemies in the game.

I mean That I see Imperials protecting Nobles on the road, specifically nobles so if Brunwulf's words are true then Ulfric is being quote generous "sounding the horn" for Nord Villages and Farms


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So who protects Nord (Stormcloak) nobles? Stormcloaks do have nobles right? Like Lady Lawgiver having her servants bring the car around back in case of a Dragon attack. That's politics - Not solely native to the Empire. Btw - Some of the Stormcloak thanes are snobby little prics too.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

So who protects Nord (Stormcloak) nobles? Stormcloaks do have nobles right? Like Lady Lawgiver having her servants bring the car around back in case of a Dragon attack. That's politics - Not solely native to the Empire. Btw - Some of the Stormcloak thanes are snobby little prics too.

Not real we're sort of a rebellion, and the Jarls are advised not to go outside their keeps for the fear of assasination


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[LegateFasendil]

So who protects Nord (Stormcloak) nobles? Stormcloaks do have nobles right? Like Lady Lawgiver having her servants bring the car around back in case of a Dragon attack. That's politics - Not solely native to the Empire. Btw - Some of the Stormcloak thanes are snobby little prics too.

Not real we're sort of a rebellion, and the Jarls are advised not to go outside their keeps for the fear of assasination


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Once or if the Empire leaves Skyrim, do you think things will really change that drastically?

I doubt it. Same Nobles, same system of Gov, just different faces.

 

[Raijin]

"Just as long as you don't target those who pay taxes, slaughter and pillage all you want!"

How many pay taxes in Skyrim? Do you know who is even eligible for taxes?

What? People who own homes, Own shops, stores,etc pays taxes. That is a weak argument.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The Legion has been known to escort refugees and civilians from disaster/war zones. They also sometimes escort trade shipments.

They're not biased in that they only will protect nobles.

 

[LegateFasendil]

The Legion has been known to escort refugees and civilians from disaster/war zones. They also sometimes escort trade shipments.

They're not biased in that they only will protect nobles.

Like the Orcs for example. Good point.

 

[DrunkenMage]

What? People who own homes, Own shops, stores,etc pays taxes. That is a weak argument.

In Skyrim the only people mentioned paying taxes are landowners and businesses. They provide the larger income. Taxing your general commoners costs more to collect than you get in return.

It isn't a weak argument, it is a point. Not every citizen pays taxes, most wouldn't be able to afford it.

 

[Raijin]

The Legion has been known to escort refugees and civilians from disaster/war zones. They also sometimes escort trade shipments.

They're not biased in that they only will protect nobles.

Nels the Naughty thinks otherwise.

Nels the Naughty, a Nord barbarian, is a guest at Summitmist Manor in Skingrad. His daughter, Olga, was killed by bandits during a raid on his village in Skyrim and the local garrison of the Imperial Legion did nothing to stop it. For this reason, he dislikes soldiers like Neville and regards them as "useless, uncaring tools of corruption".

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Nels_the_Naughty

 

[DrunkenMage]

The Legion has been known to escort refugees and civilians from disaster/war zones. They also sometimes escort trade shipments.

They're not biased in that they only will protect nobles.

Like the Orcs for example. Good point.

Also when Alduin attacked Helgan, Tullius ordered they get the townspeople to safety.

I noticed that the Legates mention the Dragons, while the Stormcloak Officers don't. Seems they're the only ones concerned.

 

[Raijin]

In Skyrim the only people mentioned paying taxes are landowners and businesses. They provide the larger income. Taxing your general commoners costs more to collect than you get in return.

It isn't a weak argument, it is a point. Not every citizen pays taxes, most wouldn't be able to afford it.

Yeah because their POOR. People still pay taxes thought, and for that reason alone they have first priority.

Just rewatch this clip

Skyrim isn't a nice place to live at if you're poor... Perhaps Cyrodill is a better choice. Hell me and my Stormcloak pals should round up all of the homeless people from Skyrim, and start singing to them by encouraging them to cross over Jerrels mountains to head on over to the Imperial city where they would get top notch treatment. I'm sure the Emperor would help them, and provide space for them to live in inside of his giant size palace.

Cyrodil
Is nice to the homeless
Cyro-dill
Super cool to the homeless

In the city
City of Santa Monica
Lots of rich people
Giving change to the homeless

In the city
City of Imperial city
They take really good care
Of all their homeless

In the city
Imperial city
They're so nice to the homeless
Built a port about it

Cyrodil
Super cool to the homeless
Cyro-dill
Idn't on the tona

In the city
Imperial city
Right by Emperor Titus Mede II Castle
You can chill if you're homeless

 

[Raijin]

Also when Alduin attacked Helgan, Tullius ordered they get the townspeople to safety.

I noticed that the Legates mention the Dragons, while the Stormcloak Officers don't. Seems they're the only ones concerned.

I should really give Tullius a cookie, or a sweet roll. Hes such a god damn hero for doing what he did... I'm sure Ulfric would do the same if it wasn't for the vase amount of Imperials around him trying to kill him. After all they wanted to execute him without a fair trial.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Nels the Naughty thinks otherwise.

Nels the Naughty, a Nord barbarian, is a guest at Summitmist Manor in Skingrad. His daughter, Olga, was killed by bandits during a raid on his village in Skyrim and the local garrison of the Imperial Legion did nothing to stop it. For this reason, he dislikes soldiers like Neville and regards them as "useless, uncaring tools of corruption".

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Nels_the_Naughty

Nice, but that doesn't reflect the Legion on the whole.

"I became an Imperial soldier because if it hadn't been for the Seventh and Fifteenth Legions, a lot more of us would have died. They put themselves in harm's way for us, got the survivors to safety in Skyrim." - Mazgar gra Yagash

 

[DrunkenMage]

I should really give Tullius a cookie, or a sweet roll. Hes such a god damn hero for doing what he did... I'm sure Ulfric would do the same if it wasn't for the vase amount of Imperials around him trying to kill him. After all they wanted to execute him without a fair trial.

Showed what type of man he is under pressure. I like how Ulfric actually closed the door to the tower, may just be me... But I don't think Dragons use the front door.

Fair trial? Show me one instance in TES lore of someone being given a trial over High Treason.

Lokir: "Ulfric? The Jarl of Windhelm? You're the leader of the rebellion. But if they've captured you... Oh gods, where are they taking us?"
Ralof: "I don't know where we're going, but Sovngarde awaits."

They seemed to know death was coming before they even arrived at Helgen.

 

[Raijin]

Nice, but that doesn't reflect the Legion on the whole.

"I became an Imperial soldier because if it hadn't been for the Seventh and Fifteenth Legions, a lot more of us would have died. They put themselves in harm's way for us, got the survivors to safety in Skyrim." - Mazgar gra Yagash

Nice try in damage control but it didn't work. The imperial legion has been proven useless. They watch other people get murdered by bandits, and do nothing about it. No other quotes can fix what is already has been broken.


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[Raijin]

Showed what type of man he is under pressure. I like how Ulfric actually closed the door to the tower, may just be me... But I don't think Dragons use the front door.

Fair trial? Show me one instance in TES lore of someone being given a trial over High Treason.

Lokir: "Ulfric? The Jarl of Windhelm? You're the leader of the rebellion. But if they've captured you... Oh gods, where are they taking us?"
Ralof: "I don't know where we're going, but Sovngarde awaits."

They seemed to know death was coming before they even arrived at Helgen.

I thought the whole concept of imperial law is that your guilty until proven innocent? How come Ulfric didn't get a chance to do that? To prove his innocence? The Empire wanted to silence Ulfric... To hush him up so that others don't see the true tyranny that the empire truly is. The fact to the matter is that people are fed up with poor leadership of the Empire, and the Empire doesn't want people being reminded just how much of a failure that they are.


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[LegateFasendil]

Showed what type of man he is under pressure. I like how Ulfric actually closed the door to the tower, may just be me... But I don't think Dragons use the front door.

Fair trial? Show me one instance in TES lore of someone being given a trial over High Treason.

Lokir: "Ulfric? The Jarl of Windhelm? You're the leader of the rebellion. But if they've captured you... Oh gods, where are they taking us?"
Ralof: "I don't know where we're going, but Sovngarde awaits."

They seemed to know death was coming before they even arrived at Helgen.

I thought the whole concept of imperial law is that your guilty until proven innocent? How come Ulfric didn't get a chance to do that? To prove his innocence? The Empire wanted to silence Ulfric... To hush him up so that others don't see the true tyranny that the empire truly is. The fact to the matter is that people are fed up with poor leadership of the Empire, and the Empire doesn't want people being reminded just how much of a failure that they are.


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Martial Law. Gen Tullius is the military Gov. Summary executions are authorized. That's why. Have no sympathy for Ulfric because he alone plunged Skyrim into civil unrest after killing High King Torygg and cared not for the law or for civil order of Provincial Gov.

Funny none of these other Provinces are running for the door. Morrowind seems to want East Empire Co around very badly, Highrock doesn't agree with Ulfric.

Nice try.

 

[Lewsean]

The Legion has been known to escort refugees and civilians from disaster/war zones. They also sometimes escort trade shipments.

They're not biased in that they only will protect nobles.

You're also known to "escort" citizens of Skyrim to their deaths for worshiping their God. Tyrants.

 

[LegateFasendil]

Nice, but that doesn't reflect the Legion on the whole.

"I became an Imperial soldier because if it hadn't been for the Seventh and Fifteenth Legions, a lot more of us would have died. They put themselves in harm's way for us, got the survivors to safety in Skyrim." - Mazgar gra Yagash

Nice try in damage control but it didn't work. The imperial legion has been proven useless. They watch other people get murdered by bandits, and do nothing about it. No other quotes can fix what is already has been broken.


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Uh no. The Imperial Legion always helps me when I get attacked, of course I am an Imperial. Stormcloaks will attack you for not 'leaving' even though you're in the middle of a non-Stormcloak hold.