Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Oh... Well I'm Alternative Universe Ondolemar so there Mr Stormcluck!!! The Stormcloaks never took Markarth so hah!

Meh I've gone with crazier



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[Ondolemar]

Oh... Well I'm Alternative Universe Ondolemar so there Mr Stormcluck!!! The Stormcloaks never took Markarth so hah!

Meh I've gone with crazier



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Aside from perhaps Elenwen, I'm one of the only surviving Thalmor officers. Which gives me *plenty* of time to post on this thread.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Aside from perhaps Elenwen, I'm one of the only surviving Thalmor officers. Which gives me *plenty* of time to post on this thread.

Well that's great looks like I'll be seeing a lot of the Thalmor later




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[DrunkenMage]

I know Nords mention the Eight I never said there weren't Nords who worshipped the Eight. Who is this Stormcloak Jarl and why is he/she fighting for us? I'm going to guess Silver-Blood. Tell me if I'm right.

Stormcloak Jarl for Morthal.

Pretty much every Imperial I've met has said either "by the Eight" or just flat out "I don't worship Talos" I'm not generalizing I'm observing. I didn't just take the opinion of two people, but way to assume.

Majority of people say "By the Eight" due to the laws. Saying "By the Nine" openly would be violating the White-Gold Concordat. People are known to worship Talos in secret. Many 'Imperials' you meet in Skyrim aren't from Cyrodiil proper, those who are rarely even bring up any religious exclamations.

The worship of Talos is large in Cyrodiil and Skyrim. Statues dot both landscapes, temples dedicated to him, holy orders etc.

Talos (or Ysmir) is way more important to the Nords. Think about it: A Nord conquers all of Tamriel and then dies and becomes a god. That's like the ultimate sense of pride to boost a Nord's ego.
Other human races: that's pretty cool I'll worship him
Beast races: whatever
Elves: Heresy!
Nords: HOLY-HSJDHEUSHSJDHSJZK.. A Nord hero who ascended to Godhood! That's the greatest thing I've ever heard!

Yet it was the Imperial Cult who brought his worship to every other province. How is he "way more important" to just Nords? To the Imperials he was the founder of the Empire, their greatest Emperor. Thinking they no longer worship him because people follow the treaty in public is foolish.

He's considered the most important hero-god of mankind in Cyrodiil.

As for Ysmir, that is actually considered a Dragon. Which the Nords used to prefer over Akatosh. Talos and Ysmir are treated differently for some reason, despite the Dragonborn's being named Ysmir.

Your character is Ysmir, logically speaking.

He was considered a culture God in the second Empire was he not? Now if you worship the divines it's heresy to worship anything else

The Eight Divines were established in the First Era, doesn't matter what time he is from. Reman Cyrodiil still holds great importance to them, the province is named for him.

Heresy by certain Priests, not by others. Like religion in real life, perspective changes depending on the area.

The Empire allowed many different faiths, Daedra worship is still legal under the Empire. But renegade religious orders such as the Vigil of Stendarr would consider it heresy and kill you.

Okay If the Nords are becoming more Imperial in religion why in Riften is Mara referred to the handmaiden to Kyne? That is a purely Nordic belief it is not in any other pantheon and especially not in the pantheon of divines.

It's part of the Nordic view of the Divines. How can it not be in the pantheon of the Divines, if the Priests of Mara in Riften mention they serve the Eight.

The Nords are becoming more Imperial in religion, the Eight/Nine Divines weren't large for the Nords last game. "I'm here to show Bruma's errant Nords the path to the true faith. They must put aside their heathen gods and worship the Nine."

I'm not saying that, I'm saying they should have been more prepared to handle a rebellion in Skyrim. They obviously weren't considering it took them a year after the duel to send Tulius to Skyrim.

Not that simple, the Thalmor were running interference. "We've been trying to catch Ulfric since the war started, but he always seemed to slip through our fingers... like he knew we were coming."

Took the Legion a bit to figure out they were being played. Tullius did well capturing Ulfric and evading the Thalmor at the same time in getting that ambush to work.

Tullius arrived a few months ago, not too long after High King Torygg was killed. How long it takes to get into Skyrim would be matter for debate, it could actually depend on the time of the year. The mountain passes do sometimes have avalanches, evident with Pale Pass which is currently blocked and being cleared by Imperial forces.

Where are you getting that it took Tullius a year to arrive after Torygg was killed?

 

[General Charles Xander]

Yes, keep telling yourself that it's 'your' land.

I'm sorry, did I hear the Thalmor or the high elves complaining all those years ago that "The meanie Nords stole our lands!"? No I't wasn't high elves or the Thalmor, therefor we have no quarrel in that remark.

At some point during the war, the Snow Elves begged for peace. What they got was a Master Butcher with an iron hand.

Well, have we got something for them...

So i'ts not your land, case closed.

Then why kill your brothers and sisters? Why kill your friends? Why kill me? You claim that the Empire licks the Thalmors boots yet whenever Ulfric calls for injustice, you pick up your weapon, kiss his cheek and say "Yes master!" Are you evil? Do you kill people for fun? Or do you fetch a stick wherever it is thrown? At the end of the day if the Thalmor win then there wont be any land to rebuild, no families to care for, no inns to drink in. Do you want that future? If you do, then you are just as bad as the Thalmor.

Better than handing Skyrim over to Elisif. Seriously are you mad? Do you not care that that women will hand Skyrim over to the Elves on a silver plate? She's already friends with Elenwen, it's only a matter if time. Are you close minded? Is it Nostalgia keeping you in the Imperial Ranks or is just the sick twisted need you feel to oppress people. Injustice? Hardly. At least he stands up for his beliefs. What do you do? Watch the Thalmor steal our people and Torture them. And then you go right ahead and torture people of your own. Tell me, Imperial Milkdrinker, is Ulfric still committing injustice? And just for the record I Don't fight for High King Ulfric. I fight for myself and my people impoverished by the debts from an Empire to weak to defend them. I fight for my family that was slaughtered by the Thalmor when they razed my home, a night which was turned a blind eye to by the Imperial authorities the so called "enemies" of the Thalmor. Are we still the villains, or are we the farmers, villagers and ex-soldiers forced to fight a dying empire and our own brothers and sisters for not doing anything on our behalf in the last hundred years. You're just another Imperial politician trying to tell the Nords "it's okay we'll get them in say twenty years when our strength is up" well I want change for Skyrim now, and If I have to go through one thousand Imperial legions, by Ysmir, I'll do it. Rot in Oblivion, Imperial. Daedra take you.
You think Elisif is going to turn to Elenwen and say "I know that you've been torturing and killing my people all because of your feelings of superiority, but take my land! =)" Friends? Than you must really can't tell the difference between best buddies and mutual cooperation. So it's not injustice to murder hundreds of civilians in the "Markarth Incident"? Is it not injustice to Murder a high king and usurp his throne? Even if you are not fighting for Ulfric, is it not injustice to slaughter tens of hundreds of Soldiers that enlisted trying to protect farmers, ex-legionaries and builders like you? What do we do? Everything. We have a spy ring that intercepts and obtains information of the dominions attempts, we prevent The dominion from moving in any closer to Skyrim and Cyrodiil than they already have, we prevent the Thalmor from commiting anymore atrocities than they can get away with, we have strategests who work constantly to prepare for the next Great War, we have Soldiers STILL fighting and dying to protect You! What do you do? Complain and kill. You have 1 rule, 1! Don't worship in public. We do what we can to protect you, but what can we do if you don't want our protection? Nothing, that is the time when we can't do anything. I don't care much for backstory in a factual thread, but tell me, who killed your family? Was it Imperial Legionaries? Hold guards? Or was it the Thalmor? You prove my point right there, instead of reporting the corrupt officers and or killing the Thalmor themselves, you kill innocent soldiers? Complain and kill. Revenge is understandable, but if you kill others in the place of those who killed your family, what makes you think that you are any better than them? You're killing people every single day, people who protected you. "How many of those corpses out there once had the faces of people who called you friend? What about THEIR families?"

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[DrunkenMage]

I fight for my family that was slaughtered by the Thalmor when they razed my home, a night which was turned a blind eye to by the Imperial authorities the so called "enemies" of the Thalmor.

Actually the Legion wouldn't turn a blind eye to the Thalmor Justiciars who attack unprovoked or break the law. Hence why their notes mention "If caught by the authorities you can't be helped." when they do illegal things.

That is like me saying that my High Elf had his entire family slaughtered by Stormcloaks, and Jarl Ulfric said elves should all die.

 

[General Charles Xander]

Yes, keep telling yourself that it's 'your' land.

I'm sorry, did I hear the Thalmor or the high elves complaining all those years ago that "The meanie Nords stole our lands!"? No I't wasn't high elves or the Thalmor, therefor we have no quarrel in that remark.

At some point during the war, the Snow Elves begged for peace. What they got was a Master Butcher with an iron hand.

Well, have we got something for them...

So i'ts

Then why kill your brothers and sisters? Why kill your friends? Why kill me? You claim that the Empire licks the Thalmors boots yet whenever Ulfric calls for injustice, you pick up your weapon, kiss his cheek and say "Yes master!" Are you evil? Do you kill people for fun? Or do you fetch a stick wherever it is thrown? At the end of the day if the Thalmor win then there wont be any land to rebuild, no families to care for, no inns to drink in. Do you want that future? If you do, then you are just as bad as the Thalmor.

Better than handing Skyrim over to Elisif. Seriously are you mad? Do you not care that that women will hand Skyrim over to the Elves on a silver plate? She's already friends with Elenwen, it's only a matter if time. Are you close minded? Is it Nostalgia keeping you in the Imperial Ranks or is just the sick twisted need you feel to oppress people. Injustice? Hardly. At least he stands up for his beliefs. What do you do? Watch the Thalmor steal our people and Torture them. And then you go right ahead and torture people of your own. Tell me, Imperial Milkdrinker, is Ulfric still committing injustice? And just for the record I Don't fight for High King Ulfric. I fight for myself and my people impoverished by the debts from an Empire to weak to defend them. I fight for my family that was slaughtered by the Thalmor when they razed my home, a night which was turned a blind eye to by the Imperial authorities the so called "enemies" of the Thalmor. Are we still the villains, or are we the farmers, villagers and ex-soldiers forced to fight a dying empire and our own brothers and sisters for not doing anything on our behalf in the last hundred years. You're just another Imperial politician trying to tell the Nords "it's okay we'll get them in say twenty years when our strength is up" well I want change for Skyrim now, and If I have to go through one thousand Imperial legions, by Ysmir, I'll do it. Rot in Oblivion, Imperial. Daedra take you.


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You think Elisif is going to turn and say "Hey I know you kidnap and torture my people all because of your views of superiority, but take my land!"? There's a huge difference between best buddies and a mutual cooperation. What do we do? Everything. We have a spy ring that intercepts information that the Thalmor have planned, we have soldiers on the front line preventing the Dominion from advancing on Skyrim and Cyrodiil any more than they already have, we prevent the Thalmor from committing any more atrocities than they can get away with, we have strategists working constantly to prepare for the upcoming war, we have provinces that we feed and trade with, we have people STILL dying to protect farmers, ex-soldiers and innocents like you! What do you do? Complain and kill. You had 1 rule, 1! Don't worship Talos in public. We do all we can to protect you, but what can we do if you don't want our protection? Nothing. That is the only time that we are not able to do anything. Is it not injustice to kill hundreds of people during the "Markarth Incident"? Is it not injustice to murder the High King and usurp his throne? Even if you don't fight for Ulfric, Is it not injustice to slaughter tens of hundreds of innocent soldiers that enlist to protect Their Empire and YOU?

I'm not one for backstory on a factual thread, but tell me. Who murdered your family? Was it Imperial Legionaries? Was it Hold guards? Was it Ulfric Stormcloak? Or was it the Thalmor? You prove my point right there. Instead of reporting the corrupt officials and or killing them and or the Thalmor that killed them, You kill countless of innocent soldiers, guards and officials. In my eyes, you are proving that you are no different than the people who killed your family. You kill innocent people every single day and yet you care nothing for it. "How many of those corpses once had the faces of those who called you friend? What about THEIR FAMILIES?"

 

[General Charles Xander]

Ulfric Stormcloak has a fun room under Windhelm.

That torture device is in the corner with cobwebs on it, looks like it hasn't been used in decades. Nice try though.


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Yes, our interrogation team at the Embassy is quite proficient with the use of cob webs.

Lol now that is funny.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

you think Elisif is going to turn to Elenwen and say "I know that you've been torturing and killing my people all because of your feelings of superiority, but take my land!"

Yes the women's a puppet with no political experience who acts on emotion

Friends? Than you must really can't tell the difference between best buddies and mutual cooperation.

Is it mutual cooperation to say that a person throws great parties because that's literally what Elisif said about Elenwen during Diplomatic Immunity

So it's not injustice to murder hundreds of civilians in the "Markarth Incident"?

You must have read "The Bear of Markarth" well I'm sorry to say but the information in that slanderfest of Forsworn Propaganda is false.
1.)The Reachmen were not trying to become a recognized nation. Thats stupid to assume those Barbarians even slightly cared about being recognized by the Imperials. Just as well it was the Imperials who were getting using Ulfric Stormcloak to get Markarth back in the first place. If there even was a massacre the Empire is to blame.
2.) It states that Ulfric killed men women and children if they did not cooperate Reachman and Nord Alike. Well lets straighten this out: The Forsworn hate foreigners, they have a strict "no foreigner in the Reach" policy so there wouldn't be Nords for Ulfric to slaughter.
3.)Ulfric didn't put every Reachman official to the sword because Madanach, AND There are still Reachmen from the Markarth Incident days in Markarth.

So this book lied to you THREE TIMES, its obviously not a viable source of information, and you Imperials worship it like its scripture and say "This is why I hate Ulfric" without a second thought.

Is it not injustice to Murder a high king and usurp his throne? Even if you are not fighting for Ulfric,

sorry but Nordic Tradition =/= Murder, even if it was an unfair fight.

is it not injustice to slaughter tens of hundreds of Soldiers that enlisted trying to protect farmers, ex-legionaries and builders like you?

we wouldn't have to slaughter them if they would just step aside and surrender. war is war people die. that's how it is. War is Hell. Trying to protect us? You mean let the Thalmor wreak havoc on Skyrim and kidnap men in the middle of the night. Oh Yeah, they'll protect us, if we have enough money to pay for it.

What do we do? Nothing.

Fixed that for you

We have a spy ring that intercepts and obtains information of the dominions attempts,

Actually that spy ring is working on the Dark Brotherhood at the moment

we prevent The dominion from moving in any closer to Skyrim and Cyrodiil than they already have,

As much as you want to use technicality the Dominion is already in Skyrim. The Thalmor are IN Skyrim. You've failed your job of protecting us. Go Home Imperials! You're drunk!

we prevent the Thalmor from commiting anymore atrocities than they can get away with,

we have strategests who work constantly to prepare for the next Great War,

Yeah I know that and it took you twenty goddamn years.

we have Soldiers STILL fighting and dying to protect You!

Where? When? Those soldiers are trying to kill me what are you on about.

What do you do? Complain and kill. You have 1 rule, 1! Don't worship in public.

Actually its "don't worship at all or you might get legally seized in the middle of the night and vigorously tortured," ALL FOR WORSHIPPING A GOD

We do what we can to protect you,

Its obviously not enough please go home to Cyrodiil we clearly don't want you anymore

but what can we do if you don't want our protection?

You can do the sensible thing and GO fluffING HOME!!!

Nothing, that is the time when we can't do anything. I don't care much for backstory in a factual thread, but tell me, who killed your family? Was it Imperial Legionaries? Hold guards? Or was it the Thalmor?

It was the Thalmor, but the fact of the matter is the Imperials were supposed to be the Thalmor's enemies and they just let it happen. They didn't do anything about it. There was no code, no investigation, nothing. It didn't help their case when they tried to kill to cut my head off

You prove my point right there, instead of reporting the corrupt officers and or killing the Thalmor themselves, you kill innocent soldiers?

No, I kill as many Thalmor as I can see and find and then I kill Imperial Soldiers for pretty much making the situation 1000x worse and for doing nothing but stand idly by while the Thalmor ransack peoples home and basically rape the land. Your my protectors? really? what a fluffing joke.

Complain and kill. Revenge is understandable, but if you kill others in the place of those who killed your family, what makes you think that you are any better than them?

I assure you I've already killed those who killed my family now I fight... I fight... "I fight for the men I've held in my arms, dying on foreign soil. I fight for their wives and children, who's names I heard whispered in their last breaths. I fight for we few who did come home, only to find our country full of strangers wearing familiar faces. I fight for my people impoverished to pay the debts of an Empire too weak to rule them, yet brands them criminals for wanting to rule themselves! I fight so that all the fighting I've already done hasn't been for nothing. I fight... because I must."

You're killing people every single day, people who protected you.

They never protected me or mine. Thats the point, Thats why I'm killing them and thats why I will continue to kill them until they are completely out of Skyrim

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

I fight for my family that was slaughtered by the Thalmor when they razed my home, a night which was turned a blind eye to by the Imperial authorities the so called "enemies" of the Thalmor.

Actually the Legion wouldn't turn a blind eye to the Thalmor Justiciars who attack unprovoked or break the law. Hence why their notes mention "If caught by the authorities you can't be helped." when they do illegal things.

That is like me saying that my High Elf had his entire family slaughtered by Stormcloaks, and Jarl Ulfric said elves should all die.

I'm saying it was an act of Corruption not necessarily protocol. Doesn't matter Mikulas wouldn't really care and he has other reasons to fight as well.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Tullius arrived a few months ago, not too long after High King Torygg was killed. How long it takes to get into Skyrim would be matter for debate, it could actually depend on the time of the year. The mountain passes do sometimes have avalanches, evident with Pale Pass which is currently blocked and being cleared by Imperial forces.

Where are you getting that it took Tullius a year to arrive after Torygg was killed?

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Stormcloak_Rebellion
Less than a year but you get the drift.

 

[General Charles Xander]

you think Elisif is going to turn to Elenwen and say "I know that you've been torturing and killing my people all because of your feelings of superiority, but take my land!"

Yes the women's a puppet with no political experience who acts on emotion

Friends? Than you must really can't tell the difference between best buddies and mutual cooperation.

Is it mutual cooperation to say that a person throws great parties because that's literally what Elisif said about Elenwen during Diplomatic Immunity

So it's not injustice to murder hundreds of civilians in the "Markarth Incident"?

You must have read "The Bear of Markarth" well I'm sorry to say but the information in that slanderfest of Forsworn Propaganda is false.
1.)The Reachmen were not trying to become a recognized nation. Thats stupid to assume those Barbarians even slightly cared about being recognized by the Imperials. Just as well it was the Imperials who were getting Markarth back from Ulfric Stormcloak in the first place. If there even was a massacre they're to blame.
2.) It states that Ulfric killed men women and children if they did not cooperate Reachman and Nord Alike. Well lets straighten this out: The Forsworn hate foreigners, they have a strict "no foreigner in the Reach" policy so there wouldn't be Nords for Ulfric to slaughter.
3.Ulfric didn't put every Reachman official to the sword because Madanach, AND There are still Reachmen from the Markarth Incident days in Markarth.

So this book lied to you THREE TIMES, its obviously not a viable source of information, and you Imperials worship it like its scripture and say "This is why I hate Ulfric" without a second thought.

Is it not injustice to Murder a high king and usurp his throne? Even if you are not fighting for Ulfric,

sorry but Nordic Tradition =/= Murder, even if it was an unfair fight.

is it not injustice to slaughter tens of hundreds of Soldiers that enlisted trying to protect farmers, ex-legionaries and builders like you?

we wouldn't have to slaughter them if they would just step aside and surrender. war is war people die. that's how it is. War is Hell. Trying to protect us? You mean let the Thalmor wreak havoc on Skyrim and kidnap men in the middle of the night. Oh Yeah, they'll protect us, if we have enough money to pay for it.

What do we do? Nothing.

Fixed that for you

We have a spy ring that intercepts and obtains information of the dominions attempts,

Actually that spy ring is working on the Dark Brotherhood at the moment

we prevent The dominion from moving in any closer to Skyrim and Cyrodiil than they already have,

As much as you want to use technicality the Dominion is already in Skyrim. The Thalmor are IN Skyrim. You've failed your job of protecting us. Go Home Imperials! You're drunk!

we prevent the Thalmor from commiting anymore atrocities than they can get away with,

View attachment 34022

we have strategests who work constantly to prepare for the next Great War,

Yeah I know that and it took you twenty goddamn years.

we have Soldiers STILL fighting and dying to protect You!

Where? When? Those soldiers are trying to kill me what are you on about.

What do you do? Complain and kill. You have 1 rule, 1! Don't worship in public.

Actually its "don't worship at all or you might get legally seized in the middle of the night and vigorously tortured," ALL FOR WORSHIPPING A GOD

We do what we can to protect you,

Its obviously not enough please go home to Cyrodiil we clearly don't want you anymore

but what can we do if you don't want our protection?

You can do the sensible thing and GO fluffING HOME!!!

Nothing, that is the time when we can't do anything. I don't care much for backstory in a factual thread, but tell me, who killed your family? Was it Imperial Legionaries? Hold guards? Or was it the Thalmor?

It was the Thalmor, but the fact of the matter is the Imperials were supposed to be the Thalmor's enemies and they just let it happen. They didn't do anything about it. There was no code, no investigation, nothing. It didn't help their case when they tried to kill to cut my head off

You prove my point right there, instead of reporting the corrupt officers and or killing the Thalmor themselves, you kill innocent soldiers?

No, I kill as many Thalmor as I can see and find and then I kill Imperial Soldiers for pretty much making the situation 1000x worse and for doing nothing but stand idly by while the Thalmor ransack peoples home and basically rape the land. Your my protectors? really? what a fluffing joke.

Complain and kill. Revenge is understandable, but if you kill others in the place of those who killed your family, what makes you think that you are any better than them?

I assure you I've already killed those who killed my family now I fight... I fight... "I fight for the men I've held in my arms, dying on foreign soil. I fight for their wives and children, who's names I heard whispered in their last breaths. I fight for we few who did come home, only to find our country full of strangers wearing familiar faces. I fight for my people impoverished to pay the debts of an Empire too weak to rule them, yet brands them criminals for wanting to rule themselves! I fight so that all the fighting I've already done hasn't been for nothing. I fight... because I must."

You're killing people every single day, people who protected you.

They never protected me or mine. Thats the point, Thats why I'm killing them and thats why I will continue to kill them until they are completely out of Skyrim

1. Drunkenmage has proved you and many others before you wrong with this on multiple occasions.
2. You just admitted that they are innocent and It's not about money, you are a citizen of the Empire and it is the Legions job like it or not to protect you.
3. What do we do? Everything. (Fixed your obvious error)
4. So you think that the ENTIRE Penitus Oculatus is in Skyrim? Let alone working on the Dark Brotherhood?
5.The Thalmor is in Skyrim, not the Dominion forces themselves.
6. So you would rather have them kidnap ANYONE who they thought is a Talos Worshiper?
7. Oh you're right, when an entire nation suffers critical casualties and impending anihalation and signs a treaty to live to fight another day, I'm sure that the losing nation could just completely dominate the enemy frce within a week or so....
8. The unknown amount of deaths involving Dominion espionage and Cloak and Dagger. Also those soldiers are just one Legion, the rest is on the border. Why do you think Ulfric was so hesitant to spill royal blood?
9. Oh it's enough, you are just screwing yourselves.
10. Sure we will just completely leave Skyrim, full retraction, Yea it's not going to last long. If I have to explain why , than you are just close-minded.
11. Mage has answered this.
12. Yes your right, we never protect our civilians. I believe TES Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion Disagree.
13. Thus why I don't bother with RP''rs in a factual debate.
14. Again all TES games disagree. Pointless accusation.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Actually that spy ring is working on the Dark Brotherhood at the moment

Actually there are many 'spy rings'. The group working on the Dark Brotherhood are the section of Penitus Oculatus tasked with the protection of the Emperor.

"Imperial spies are everywhere. Never forget that..." - Ulfric Stormcloak

I'm saying it was an act of Corruption not necessarily protocol. Doesn't matter Mikulas wouldn't really care and he has other reasons to fight as well.

Corruption? Backgrounds for characters are fine, but those stories don't work well as arguments on this thread.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Stormcloak_Rebellion
Less than a year but you get the drift.

Basically what the Imperial Legates say, the Legion stepped in when the Nord Jarls failed to control the situation.

I'm not even sure how that helps your argument, the Empire didn't use the Legions to take the province under Military authority until the Jarls failed to bring the situation under control.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Is it mutual cooperation to say that a person throws great parties because that's literally what Elisif said about Elenwen during Diplomatic Immunity

Yet anytime she speaks about Elenwen, game files show a low emotion value.

Besides I'd say Elenwen holds nice parties when she's standing in the god damn room, that woman is scary.
Tullius who hates the Thalmor and Elenwen with a passion can even admit certain respect for his ultimate enemy: "Elenwen is a formidable woman. She lacks for neither cunning nor ambition. Now that I think of it, she would have made a fine Imperial general."

Elisif would have the knowledge that she can't be insulting, even if she hates the Thalmor. Politics 101.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Yet anytime she speaks about Elenwen, game files show a low emotion value.

Sounds like she really likes her, about the exact same value Ulfric has when he speaks about Thalmor and Imperials.

Alright then why is that quote even in there that's totally necessary, right. "Durr Elenwen throws great parties durrr" also I suppose I could argue that Elisif always sounds like that but I won't cause it's 2 A.M


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[DrunkenMage]

Alright then why is that quote even in there that's totally necessary, right. "Durr Elenwen throws great parties durrr" also I suppose I could argue that Elisif always sounds like that but I won't cause it's 2 A.M


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The player asks her about the party, if she is enjoying it. She doesn't just walk around going "hurr awesome party!" anytime you bump into her.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

The player asks her about the party, if she is enjoying it. She doesn't just walk around going "hurr awesome party!" anytime you bump into her.

Like I said its 2 A.M and I don't even care anymore. sleepy time now.


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[DrunkenMage]

She also doesn't say "great party!"

She says this if you ask her if she is enjoying the party:

"Very much so, yes. Elewen's parties are always so elegant. She really has impeccable taste. My only regret is that she doesn't host them more often."

The guy in Riften's meadery sounds less scripted than her when he talks about Black-Briar mead.

Elenwen probably does host good high class social parties, she spends a large amount of money on them. She may be an evil twisted bitch, but she's skilled at playing politics.

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

1. Drunkenmage has proved you and many others before you wrong with this on multiple occasions.

What? what has me proved me wrong on? The Bear of Markarth? Jarl Elisif being a bad High Queen? The so called "murder" of Dead King Torygg? Restate my point and refute it, otherwise I won't know what you're talking about.

2. You just admitted that they are innocent and It's not about money, you are a citizen of the Empire and it is the Legions job like it or not to protect you.

Well they're doing a pretty horrible job at it.

3. What do we do? Everything. (Fixed your obvious error)

Give me examples, I see none. Obviously if you were doing everything there wouldn't be a rebellion in the first place.

4. So you think that the ENTIRE Penitus Oculatus is in Skyrim? Let alone working on the Dark Brotherhood?

Yes and to protect the Emperor thats it.

5.The Thalmor is in Skyrim, not the Dominion forces themselves.

Semantics. The Thalmor are a sect of the Dominion, therefore
The Dominion, or at least a part of it is in Skyrim. You've failed to keep them out, Imperial we fight to preserve our way of life and you allow the only people who want to oppress us within our borders.

6. So you would rather have them kidnap ANYONE who they thought is a Talos Worshiper?

What is your argument here? I don't see it? No, I don't, obviously. They already do that anyway, if they see one shred of evidence that a person worships Talos they're sent to the dungeons.

7. Oh you're right, when an entire nation suffers critical casualties and impending anihalation and signs a treaty to live to fight another day, I'm sure that the losing nation could just completely dominate the enemy frce within a week or so....

Skyrim was still willing to fight, thats why you have pretty much every Jarl regretting the White Gold Concordant being signed. And obviously so was Hammerfell, they signed that treaty to save their own skins.

8. The unknown amount of deaths involving Dominion espionage and Cloak and Dagger. Also those soldiers are just one Legion, the rest is on the border. Why do you think Ulfric was so hesitant to spill royal blood?

Probably because he doesn't want to wage war on the entire Empire he just wants them out of Skyrim.

9. Oh it's enough, you are just screwing yourselves.

The only people screwed here are you and your "Empire" of three weak provinces.

10. Sure we will just completely leave Skyrim, full retraction, Yea it's not going to last long. If I have to explain why , than you are just close-minded.

Please do, we'd be a lot happier with you. The Dominion won't invade they have no way of getting to Skyrim from Summerset safely.

11. Mage has answered this.

What? What has he answered? You're going to have to restate have to restate the question. Didn't they teach you that in grade school?

12. Yes your right, we never protect our civilians. I believe TES Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion Disagree.

Well Skyrim agrees.

13. Thus why I don't bother with RP''rs in a factual debate.

Oh okay you want me to give you facts, okay. how about the time you Imperials cut down a woman who served as a field medic who was totally defenseless? You claim to be fighting for the weak yet anyone wearing A Stormcloak Uniform or anyone even remotely close to the Stormcloaks is immediately branded a traitor whether they're innocent or not. The player experiences this first hand. Not to mention you torture people for information, a method even your own soldiers frown upon.

14. Again all TES games disagree. Pointless accusation.

Give me one point in Skyrim other than Helgen when the Imperials were helping people out of the kindness of their hearts rather than because of some ulterior motive. You can't call yourselves the ethical choice because you aren't. Maybe the Logical choice but not the ethical one. It goes like this:
Imperials: Logical choice; because they have a better chance of rebuilding Skyrim after the civil war with their better resources.
Stormcloaks: Ethical choice; because they actually fight for their belief systems and want to give people the freedom of Religion. They don't torture people and kidnap them in the middle of the night for worshiping or not worshiping a god.
Thalmor: Asshole choice; If you wanna be a big asshole join these douchebags.
Its just like Gerdur said: "The Empire may have been good for Skyrim once upon a time, but those days are long past. Banning the worship of Talos was the last straw. Thalmor everywhere, dragging people off for honoring our own gods! I'm glad Ralof is helping drive them out of here. If I was a bit younger, I might have joined the fight myself."

 

[Mikulas Black-Blade]

Stormcloak Jarl for Morthal.

Oh right, the self absorbed one who doesn't do anything. My second guess of course.

Majority of people say "By the Eight" due to the laws. Saying "By the Nine" openly would be violating the White-Gold Concordat. People are known to worship Talos in secret. Many 'Imperials' you meet in Skyrim aren't from Cyrodiil proper, those who are rarely even bring up any religious exclamations.

The worship of Talos is large in Cyrodiil and Skyrim. Statues dot both landscapes, temples dedicated to him, holy orders etc.

And hes obviously important enough to the Nords to instill wide scale rebellion

As for Ysmir, that is actually considered a Dragon. Which the Nords used to prefer over Akatosh. Talos and Ysmir are treated differently for some reason, despite the Dragonborn's being named Ysmir.

I think this book elaborated further:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Dragonborn:Varieties_of_Faith_in_the_Empire

Your character is Ysmir, logically speaking.

Right, I had a hard time not knowing that what with the Greybeards shouting it in my face.

It's part of the Nordic view of the Divines. How can it not be in the pantheon of the Divines, if the Priests of Mara in Riften mention they serve the Eight.

Wrong, Mara being a Handmaiden is only seen in the Old Ways not in the Nordic View of the Divines. thats not even a thing.