Why do so many people hate squishy mages?

[imaginepageant]

I don't understand the argument that mages take forever to kill a bandit and need to use a summon to be a tank and deal the heavy damage while you wait to recover your magicka, blah blah blah.

Did you guys ever consider not engaging every single enemy you see in combat?

That, I think, is one of the major differences between a warrior build and a mage or stealth build. The former want to kill everything, and they're good at it. The latter realize that they need to choose their battles. Why waste your time and energy fighting bandits? Or bears? Or trolls? Or anything you don't actually have to? Send in an atronach to distract that group of bandits while you sneak away. Use a Calm spell on that bear so he doesn't bother you. Take an invisibility potion and leave that troll the hell alone. Yes, you'll want to fight some things to level your Destruction skills, but you are not required to defeat every single enemy you meet.

Also, when you say the selection of spells in Skyrim is small, are you counting the twenty to twenty-seven Shouts you can use? Marked for Death is an absurdly useful Shout for mage or stealth builds, which will completely negate the disadvantage of dealing less damage than a warrior. Storm Call is fantastic when you find yourself surrounded by foes outdoors. A well-timed and strategic Unrelenting Force can take out several enemies at once. Ice Form, Dismay, and Kyne's Peace are all great for buying you time, either to deal with other enemies, recover magicka, or get into hiding. Disarm makes that warrior with the warhammer completely benign. Aura Whisper helps you plan ahead. Throw Voice helps you sneak by tough guys you don't want to tangle with. When a band of vampires, a bear, and two ice wolves attack you all at once, Animal Allegiance will turn the tides.

Think outside the box, guys. Pure mages are not that difficult if you know how to play them.

 

[thomasblaine]

That's true for all characters. I've yet to find anything in the game you can't simply outrun.

It's not that mages necessarily need to do anything, it's just more interesting and effective to use your spells in diverse and creative ways than simply blast everything until you run out of magicka and then be disappointed when you're hacked to pieces.

Avoiding combat, especially against stronger opponents, in cunning ways has a lot of roleplaying value, but you just don't have enough control over the game to pull that off every single time you're faced with danger.

Also, keep in mind that there's a huge Lore difference between spells and shouts. Some people, myself included, prefer to stay the hell away from the main quest and all that Dragonborn business to preserve our character concepts.

 

[KritikalPT]

People hate the Mage because it forces them to think. People would rather want "I'm gonna run in and swing this big sword wildly until things die." Than "A flesh spell to protect me, summon creature for help, pelt them from afar with ranged spells, get a cloak spell and healing spell ready in case they come too close." That is how you must prepare and think sometimes, especially if you play at hard difficulty.

While I don't like playing them because this game doesn't give justice to mage gameplay. They drastically cut down on the number of spells available, dumbed down the stats to only 3, Master level spells are forced to have a long animation which you can't increase its speed, and so on and on.

Vanilla mages are, in my opinion, boring. Cast all the protections you want, you'll still die in 2-3 hits. Your Destructions spell will eventually barely dent enemies, more so on higher difficulty levels, and all you'll be doing is spamming your spells while your summons are pounding at them.

However, I can definitely see myself playing a squishy mage in Skyrim if I install some mods that add more spells.

 

[thomasblaine]

Of course, you want the nigh-immortal walking nuke who turns enemies to ash with a single touch and summons meteors with a snap of his fingers. Oblivion sort of allowed that because the math was completely unbalanced, but that's just not how Skyrim mages work.

You need to think while you fight, and no, that doesn't mean spamming your spells while your summons pound on the enemy, unless that's as far as your imagination stretches.

 

[KritikalPT]

Of course, you want the nigh-immortal walking nuke who turns enemies to ash with a single touch and summons meteors with a snap of his fingers. Oblivion sort of allowed that because the math was completely unbalanced, but that's just not how Skyrim mages work.

You need to think while you fight, and no, that doesn't mean spamming your spells while your summons pound on the enemy, unless that's as far as your imagination stretches.

Um, no. I want a mage that feels like a mage and not some person whose Uncle taught a few tricks so he could impress that one girl he likes.

Where are my Mark/Recall, Teleport, Flight, Open Lock and Water Breathing/Walking spells? What about Disintegrate Armor/Weapon spells?

I want variety. But no, I'm forced to play with such a limited variety of spells, because they streamlined this game to Oblivion.

And hell, what if I do want to feel like an unstoppable force? Surely, as a mage that would be quite easy. Oh wait, it ain't. In comparison to almost any build that involves melee in the slightest, they fall apart.

 

[Aren_Direfrost]

Master level spells take way too long to cast. Even with -flesh spells, you will die really quickly, and having a very angry beast or bandit running after you while you do your little dance to summon hellfire won't work. The best thing is not to use them, or at least that's what I found, but the damage from spells don't scale all that well, and you'll find spamming a ton just to kill 1 enemy, let alone half a dozen.

Unless you use wall of flames or distance to protect your self we can argue about this all day but what It comes down to is you have to know how to effectively play a squishy mage and obviously you are more comfortable with a warrior or theif build


Aren Direfrost... Witchhunter

 

[Aren_Direfrost]

Um, no. I want a mage that feels like a mage and not some person whose Uncle taught a few tricks so he could impress that one girl he likes.

Where are my Mark/Recall, Teleport, Flight, Open Lock and Water Breathing/Walking spells? What about Disintegrate Armor/Weapon spells?

I want variety. But no, I'm forced to play with such a limited variety of spells, because they streamlined this game to Oblivion.

And hell, what if I do want to feel like an unstoppable force? Surely, as a mage that would be quite easy. Oh wait, it ain't. In comparison to almost any build that involves melee in the slightest, they fall apart.

Actually if you want to feel like an unstoppable force as a mage you can even on vanilla it's called turn the difficulty down but where's the fun in that and the limitations to me are fun it makes it more challenging but apparently there's no making you see my side of this so lets just agree to disagree


Aren Direfrost... Witchhunter

 

[thomasblaine]

Um, no. I want a mage that feels like a mage and not some person whose Uncle taught a few tricks so he could impress that one girl he likes.

Where are my Mark/Recall, Teleport, Flight, Open Lock and Water Breathing/Walking spells? What about Disintegrate Armor/Weapon spells?

I want variety. But no, I'm forced to play with such a limited variety of spells, because they streamlined this game to Oblivion.

And hell, what if I do want to feel like an unstoppable force? Surely, as a mage that would be quite easy. Oh wait, it ain't. In comparison to almost any build that involves melee in the slightest, they fall apart.

Yes, well, that's not the way mages work in most RPGs, like it or not. You're not actually supposed to be overpowered unless you deliberately exploit the game mechanics or lower the difficulty. It's not like the warrior feels any more badass when the common bandit takes four or five warhammer strikes directly to the face without even flinching.

So, mages have a steeper learning curve. Some games just don't conform to the idea of coasting through the world on the wings of plot bias and infinite power to stroke the player's ego, as if there isn't enough of that sort in Skyrim already.

Don't be silly, Mark/Recall, whatever that is, and Flight aren't in any games anywhere, Water Breathing can still be gained from potions and items and you have Fast Travel for Teleport. I was sad to see the Open Lock spells go too, but locks in and of themselves almost never keep you from anything anyway.

 

[Wetigos]

I don't understand the argument that mages take forever to kill a bandit and need to use a summon to be a tank and deal the heavy damage while you wait to recover your magicka, blah blah blah.

Did you guys ever consider not engaging every single enemy you see in combat?

That, I think, is one of the major differences between a warrior build and a mage or stealth build.

Well that may be how you play stealth builds, but as an assassin i take out every enemy i see from the beginning of the game.
I actually tend to target some of the more challenging enemies when i start out, simply because its far harder to kill those without the 30x dagger damage, and higher sneak to avoid detection.
One of the first things i (usually) do is kill those 2 guys in the ratway when joining the thieves guild, where most just run/sneak by.
Starting the main quest before reaching 50 sneak also makes it more challeging, imo.

As i said before, i dont find mage hard, its just boring (for me personally) to have to wait around for mana constantly at the first 10 or so levels of the game, and me not being allowed to kill whatever enemies i want from the beginning would also be boring, again, personal opinion, i am not here to tell you how you should play the game.

 

[KritikalPT]

Don't be silly, Mark/Recall, whatever that is, and Flight aren't in any games anywhere, Water Breathing can still be gained from potions and items and you have Fast Travel for Teleport. I was sad to see the Open Lock spells go too, but locks in and of themselves almost never keep you from anything anyway.

Did you ever play ANY of the previous games? Barring Oblivion, which I played a total of 5 hours so I don't know about that one, most of those spells are there, and that was one of the things playing a mage was fun.

Oh yeah, it's so good to see a "feature" of a game that completely destroys the purpose of having a big world! That way the devs have another thing to completely cut from the game. It's quotes like these that make me mad: a dev streamlines something and everyone shrugs and goes "Yeah, sure, I'll take it" instead of calling bullplops on something that shouldn't exist in the first place. Get rid of fast travel and add Mark/Recall and Teleport spells. It's that easy.

Yes, well, that's not the way mages work in most RPGs, like it or not. You're not actually supposed to be overpowered unless you deliberately exploit the game mechanics or lower the difficulty. It's not like the warrior feels any more badass when the common bandit takes four or five warhammer strikes directly to the face without even flinching.

Skyrim's the only RPG you've played, otherwise you would know how simply wrong that quote is. Completely wrong.

Regarding the warrior classes in this game, later on you can kill anything is so few hits it's not even funny. Unlike spells in Skyrim, melee has way more damage, couple that with enchanting and you've just unlocked easy mode, and no, that's without the alchemy exploit.

 

[Aren_Direfrost]

Did you ever play ANY of the previous games? Barring Oblivion, which I played a total of 5 hours so I don't know about that one, most of those spells are there, and that was one of the things playing a mage was fun.

Oh yeah, it's so good to see a "feature" of a game that completely destroys the purpose of having a big world! That way the devs have another thing to completely cut from the game. It's quotes like these that make me mad: a dev streamlines something and everyone shrugs and goes "Yeah, sure, I'll take it" instead of calling bullpl*** on something that shouldn't exist in the first place. Get rid of fast travel and add Mark/Recall and Teleport spells. It's that easy.



Skyrim's the only RPG you've played, otherwise you would know how simply wrong that quote is. Completely wrong.

Regarding the warrior classes in this game, later on you can kill anything is so few hits it's not even funny. Unlike spells in Skyrim, melee has way more damage, couple that with enchanting and you've just unlocked easy mode, and no, that's without the alchemy exploit.

Easy mode is called novice lol we already have that I don't play on it cause it's boring I like the fear of dying it makes it more challenging an exciting



Aren Direfrost... Witchhunter

 

[KritikalPT]

Did you ever play ANY of the previous games? Barring Oblivion, which I played a total of 5 hours so I don't know about that one, most of those spells are there, and that was one of the things playing a mage was fun.

Oh yeah, it's so good to see a "feature" of a game that completely destroys the purpose of having a big world! That way the devs have another thing to completely cut from the game. It's quotes like these that make me mad: a dev streamlines something and everyone shrugs and goes "Yeah, sure, I'll take it" instead of calling bullpl*** on something that shouldn't exist in the first place. Get rid of fast travel and add Mark/Recall and Teleport spells. It's that easy.



Skyrim's the only RPG you've played, otherwise you would know how simply wrong that quote is. Completely wrong.

Regarding the warrior classes in this game, later on you can kill anything is so few hits it's not even funny. Unlike spells in Skyrim, melee has way more damage, couple that with enchanting and you've just unlocked easy mode, and no, that's without the alchemy exploit.

Easy mode is called novice lol we already have that I don't play on it cause it's boring I like the fear of dying it makes it more challenging an exciting



Aren Direfrost... Witchhunter

Well duh, because you deal double damage and you take 50% only, but difficulty levels on Bethesda games are always awful, and to avoid bashing Bethesda further due to their lack of drive on making decent games I won't even touch that subject.

 

[Aren_Direfrost]

Well that may be how you play stealth builds, but as an assassin i take out every enemy i see from the beginning of the game.
I actually tend to target some of the more challenging enemies when i start out, simply because its far harder to kill those without the 30x dagger damage, and higher sneak to avoid detection.
One of the first things i (usually) do is kill those 2 guys in the ratway when joining the thieves guild, where most just run/sneak by.
Starting the main quest before reaching 50 sneak also makes it more challeging, imo.

As i said before, i dont find mage hard, its just boring (for me personally) to have to wait around for mana constantly at the first 10 or so levels of the game, and me not being allowed to kill whatever enemies i want from the beginning would also be boring, again, personal opinion, i am not here to tell you how you should play the game.

A. Use a high elf they start with 50 extra magicka. B. They hive the highborn birth power which literally gives you almost infinite magicka for about a minuet. Also when all else fails I carry a destruction staff which can e picked up at the college from feralda pretty early on or looted from the dragon priest kriosis at shear point you also get all three words to throw voice here and a dragon soul from the accompanying dragon which is useful for bait and switch tactics



Aren Direfrost... Witchhunter

 

[Aren_Direfrost]

Well duh, because you deal double damage and you take 50% only, but difficulty levels on Bethesda games are always awful, and to avoid bashing Bethesda further due to their lack of drive on making decent games I won't even touch that subject.

I feel like you are grasping at straws here an if you feel bethesda is so subpar why are you on a forum dedicated to one of their games?


Aren Direfrost... Witchhunter

 

[thomasblaine]

Did you ever play ANY of the previous games? Barring Oblivion, which I played a total of 5 hours so I don't know about that one, most of those spells are there, and that was one of the things playing a mage was fun.

Oh yeah, it's so good to see a "feature" of a game that completely destroys the purpose of having a big world! That way the devs have another thing to completely cut from the game. It's quotes like these that make me mad: a dev streamlines something and everyone shrugs and goes "Yeah, sure, I'll take it" instead of calling bullpl*** on something that shouldn't exist in the first place. Get rid of fast travel and add Mark/Recall and Teleport spells. It's that easy.

Which games and which spells are you talking about in particular? Be specific.

It's a good idea for immersion, but not exactly fair to casual gamers who don't want to be a wizard to avoid long walks. And if you already have fast travel, teleportation is completely obsolete. It's that simple.

Skyrim's the only RPG you've played, otherwise you would know how simply wrong that quote is. Completely wrong.

I don't think I am. Care to back that statement up with an actual argument?

And all I can say is that I have completely different experiences with melee combat than you do. I don't think it's at all overpowered unless you spend hours and hours investing in it, just like spellcasting.

 

[KritikalPT]

Which games and which spells are you talking about in particular? Be specific.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Spells

And that's just 1 game.

It's a good idea for immersion, but not exactly fair to casual gamers who don't want to be a wizard to avoid long walks. And if you already have fast travel, teleportation is completely obsolete. It's that simple.

Casual players ruined TES games. They whine and complain when RPGs have "too many elements" or whatever argument they use, and because of that, we have Skyrim, streamlined because Bethesda had them in mind.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that casual players shouldn't be playing RPGs, there might be some example of RPG games out there that they can pick up and play. I personally don't know if there are or not because I'm not a casual RPG player, quite the opposite.

TES games were brilliant back when they were complex and the games didn't hold your hands with quest markers and limited elements. Look at Daggerfall, which has the best character creation of any CRPG.

I don't think I am. Care to back that statement up with an actual argument?

Erm, you don't think you are what exactly? I didn't say you were, well, anything, I just pointed that, if you played other RPG games that aren't from Bethesda you would notice that spellcasters outclassed anything later on, while not having a sense of being overpowered. You still needed to plan your spells accordingly, and teamwork (assuming you played with someone else) was paramount. A good mage would decimate a room of enemies while maintaining their integrity, as well as their innards. A bad one would maybe kill a handfull before dying horribly.

I feel like you are grasping at straws here an if you feel bethesda is so subpar why are you on a forum dedicated to one of their games?

Because, despite their flaws (and they have a LOT of them, especially nowadays), Skyrim can still be a fun game if you put some time into modding it. Simple.

 

[thomasblaine]

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Spells

And that's just 1 game.

Casual players ruined TES games. They whine and complain when RPGs have "too many elements" or whatever argument they use, and because of that, we have Skyrim, streamlined because Bethesda had them in mind.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that casual players shouldn't be playing RPGs, there might be some example of RPG games out there that they can pick up and play. I personally don't know if there are or not because I'm not a casual RPG player, quite the opposite.

TES games were brilliant back when they were complex and the games didn't hold your hands with quest markers and limited elements. Look at Daggerfall, which has the best character creation of any CRPG.

Erm, you don't think you are what exactly? I didn't say you were, well, anything, I just pointed that, if you played other RPG games that aren't from Bethesda you would notice that spellcasters outclassed anything later on, while not having a sense of being overpowered. You still needed to plan your spells accordingly, and teamwork (assuming you played with someone else) was paramount. A good mage would decimate a room of enemies while maintaining their integrity, as well as their innards. A bad one would maybe kill a handfull before dying horribly.


Because, despite their flaws (and they have a LOT of them, especially nowadays), Skyrim can still be a fun game if you put some time into modding it. Simple.

Games being adapted for a wider audience doesn't ruin them unless nobody actually plays them, and the Elder Scrolls fan-base has only been expanding since the games' supposed "decline". And don't kid yourself, you're not criticizing or making constructive suggestions, you're whining because you don't like the changes. I'm sorry that 1 game had a nice magic system you liked and this one doesn't. Get over it.

You said I was wrong without backing it up with any kind of argument, and I disagreed. And again, mages in Skyrim do outclass everything else eventually if you play them intelligently, and if you don't then you get the crap beaten out of you, as it should be. Maybe you've been spoiled by games like Dragon Age and Kingdoms of Amalur where magic equals blasting a lot of stuff in rapid succession with big flashy effects, but I can guarantee you that in no game worth the title are you actually supposed to walk through it without breaking a sweat at all just because you're playing something magical.

 

[KritikalPT]

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Spells

And that's just 1 game.

Casual players ruined TES games. They whine and complain when RPGs have "too many elements" or whatever argument they use, and because of that, we have Skyrim, streamlined because Bethesda had them in mind.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that casual players shouldn't be playing RPGs, there might be some example of RPG games out there that they can pick up and play. I personally don't know if there are or not because I'm not a casual RPG player, quite the opposite.

TES games were brilliant back when they were complex and the games didn't hold your hands with quest markers and limited elements. Look at Daggerfall, which has the best character creation of any CRPG.

Erm, you don't think you are what exactly? I didn't say you were, well, anything, I just pointed that, if you played other RPG games that aren't from Bethesda you would notice that spellcasters outclassed anything later on, while not having a sense of being overpowered. You still needed to plan your spells accordingly, and teamwork (assuming you played with someone else) was paramount. A good mage would decimate a room of enemies while maintaining their integrity, as well as their innards. A bad one would maybe kill a handfull before dying horribly.


Because, despite their flaws (and they have a LOT of them, especially nowadays), Skyrim can still be a fun game if you put some time into modding it. Simple.

Games being adapted for a wider audience doesn't ruin them unless nobody actually plays them, and the Elder Scrolls fan-base has only been expanding since the games' supposed "decline". And don't kid yourself, you're not criticizing or making constructive suggestions, you're whining because you don't like the changes. I'm sorry that 1 game had a nice magic system you liked and this one doesn't. Get over it.

You said I was wrong without backing it up with any kind of argument, and I disagreed. And again, mages in Skyrim do outclass everything else eventually if you play them intelligently, and if you don't then you get the crap beaten out of you, as it should be. Maybe you've been spoiled by games like Dragon Age and Kingdoms of Amalur where magic equals blasting a lot of stuff in rapid succession with big flashy effects, but I can guarantee you that in no game worth the title are you actually supposed to walk through it without breaking a sweat at all just because you're playing something magical.

Haven't played Dragon Age nor Kingdom of Amalur, so I have no idea how the magic system works in those. I've heard good thing about Dragon Age, but money's tight over here.

No criticism? I gave plenty a few posts ago, not my fault you just ignore them.

It's not just that 1 game that has a nice magic system, that was just 1 example. Want more? Fine. Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Night, Temple of Elemental Evil, Daggerfall (or any TES game where you not only had a wide selection of spells, but you could make your own), Ultima, Dungeon Master, (Heroes of) Might and Magic, and so on. Those are good. Skyrim is limited. Limited because they pander to the casual gamers just for the extra cash. That's the biggest problem Bethesda has, they traded quality over quantity.

If you like it, it's absolutely fine, but don't say that Skyrim's magic is good and that it has a variety of spells, that's just not so. If anything, it's average at best.

No, mages do not outclass melee warriors. Let's say you're level 50. By the time you kill 1 dragon I already killed 4. Melee in this game is broken due to the ridiculous amount of damage you can pull off, and that's without the alchemy exploit. Hell, if critical hits were calculated correctly then melee would be absolutely ridiculous. Spells also don't scale well; once you get the perks that increase their damage and you have every bit of gear to further their damage, it'll stay that way, no more increases, which is not the case for melee. From perks you get double damage, plus items and whatnot that increase it more, plus enchantments to add elemental, and if you couple the Orc's racial, which grant yet another double damage boost, one swing and they are dead, no matter the difficulty level.

The only thing even more powerful are assassins, which have all the benefits of a melee character plus the x30 (!) backstab bonus.

You simply can't compare the raw damage (and mind you, I'm only taking in consideration DAMAGE, which has been my entire damned point, after all) of a mage with a warrior, and a warrior can't compare their damage with assassins.

Mages are versatile, yeah, that's their thing after all, and they turn the tide of a battle with a single Rage spell, but is their spell repertoire as good as it should have been from the beginning? No.

 

[Aren_Direfrost]

Haven't played Dragon Age nor Kingdom of Amalur, so I have no idea how the magic system works in those. I've heard good thing about Dragon Age, but money's tight over here.

No criticism? I gave plenty a few posts ago, not my fault you just ignore them.

It's not just that 1 game that has a nice magic system, that was just 1 example. Want more? Fine. Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Night, Temple of Elemental Evil, Daggerfall (or any TES game where you not only had a wide selection of spells, but you could make your own), Ultima, Dungeon Master, (Heroes of) Might and Magic, and so on. Those are good. Skyrim is limited. Limited because they pander to the casual gamers just for the extra cash. That's the biggest problem Bethesda has, they traded quality over quantity.

If you like it, it's absolutely fine, but don't say that Skyrim's magic is good and that it has a variety of spells, that's just not so. If anything, it's average at best.

No, mages do not outclass melee warriors. Let's say you're level 50. By the time you kill 1 dragon I already killed 4. Melee in this game is broken due to the ridiculous amount of damage you can pull off, and that's without the alchemy exploit. Hell, if critical hits were calculated correctly then melee would be absolutely ridiculous. Spells also don't scale well; once you get the perks that increase their damage and you have every bit of gear to further their damage, it'll stay that way, no more increases, which is not the case for melee. From perks you get double damage, plus items and whatnot that increase it more, plus enchantments to add elemental, and if you couple the Orc's racial, which grant yet another double damage boost, one swing and they are dead, no matter the difficulty level.

The only thing even more powerful are assassins, which have all the benefits of a melee character plus the x30 (!) backstab bonus.

You simply can't compare the raw damage (and mind you, I'm only taking in consideration DAMAGE, which has been my entire damned point, after all) of a mage with a warrior, and a warrior can't compare their damage with assassins.

Mages are versatile, yeah, that's their thing after all, and they turn the tide of a battle with a single Rage spell, but is their spell repertoire as good as it should have been from the beginning? No.

If you are only considering damage then this point is moot because yes Melee warriors do have higher damage ratings per swing but mages have so much more what pure warrior can paralyze an entire room with or spell or protect himself with a wall of lightning or flames or force his enemies to cease fighting and leave him be. Also I think the. Dragon born DLC did a lot to balance out what was a game discriminatory towards mages as well if you take advantage of what dragonborn DLC has to off



Aren Direfrost... Witchhunter

 

[KritikalPT]

Haven't played Dragon Age nor Kingdom of Amalur, so I have no idea how the magic system works in those. I've heard good thing about Dragon Age, but money's tight over here.

No criticism? I gave plenty a few posts ago, not my fault you just ignore them.

It's not just that 1 game that has a nice magic system, that was just 1 example. Want more? Fine. Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Night, Temple of Elemental Evil, Daggerfall (or any TES game where you not only had a wide selection of spells, but you could make your own), Ultima, Dungeon Master, (Heroes of) Might and Magic, and so on. Those are good. Skyrim is limited. Limited because they pander to the casual gamers just for the extra cash. That's the biggest problem Bethesda has, they traded quality over quantity.

If you like it, it's absolutely fine, but don't say that Skyrim's magic is good and that it has a variety of spells, that's just not so. If anything, it's average at best.

No, mages do not outclass melee warriors. Let's say you're level 50. By the time you kill 1 dragon I already killed 4. Melee in this game is broken due to the ridiculous amount of damage you can pull off, and that's without the alchemy exploit. Hell, if critical hits were calculated correctly then melee would be absolutely ridiculous. Spells also don't scale well; once you get the perks that increase their damage and you have every bit of gear to further their damage, it'll stay that way, no more increases, which is not the case for melee. From perks you get double damage, plus items and whatnot that increase it more, plus enchantments to add elemental, and if you couple the Orc's racial, which grant yet another double damage boost, one swing and they are dead, no matter the difficulty level.

The only thing even more powerful are assassins, which have all the benefits of a melee character plus the x30 (!) backstab bonus.

You simply can't compare the raw damage (and mind you, I'm only taking in consideration DAMAGE, which has been my entire damned point, after all) of a mage with a warrior, and a warrior can't compare their damage with assassins.

Mages are versatile, yeah, that's their thing after all, and they turn the tide of a battle with a single Rage spell, but is their spell repertoire as good as it should have been from the beginning? No.

If you are only considering damage then this point is moot because yes Melee warriors do have higher damage ratings per swing but mages have so much more what pure warrior can paralyze an entire room with or spell or protect himself with a wall of lightning or flames or force his enemies to cease fighting and leave him be. Also I think the. Dragon born DLC did a lot to balance out what was a game discriminatory towards mages as well if you take advantage of what dragonborn DLC has to off



Aren Direfrost... Witchhunter

Can't comment on the DLCs, I have yet to play them.