Ulfric is not the true High king

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

Was Ulfric Jarl at the time of Istlod? If not, he had no way to do so.

He finished the Prophecy, but likely did not know nor did so on his own or without cause to do so. simply put, it was just plain old coincidence, not fulfilling any prophecy or none of that religious garbage.

He seemed to have been Jarl for a few years during Istlod's reign, due to the Stormcloaks having skirmishes for years and Torygg only recently being High King.

OR, Ulfric was forced to accept the WGC like every other Jarl until a 'man-child', which is what Torygg was considered by many, came into power, having no true knowledge of what it meant to be High King because Skyrim never needed a 'true High King' since they joined the Empire.

 

[DrunkenMage]

OR, Ulfric was forced to accept the WGC like every other Jarl until a 'man-child', which is what Torygg was considered by many, came into power, having no true knowledge of what it meant to be High King because Skyrim never needed a 'true High King' since they joined the Empire.

Ulfric's father was Jarl when the White-Gold Concordat was accepted. He was considered a boy because he was young, and new.

Ulfric has no knowledge of what it is to be High King either, he has never been one. By ancient tradition Torygg was a 'True' High King, though tradition is only good when it suits Ulfric.

Ulfric calls Torygg's father a true High King, yet they were still part of the Empire also Istlod had accepted and forced the White-Gold Concordat on the other Jarls. Yet he was a true High King, but Torygg who greatly respected Ulfric and was interested in hearing more about independence wasn't a true High King? Why? Because Ulfric killed him?

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

OR, Ulfric was forced to accept the WGC like every other Jarl until a 'man-child', which is what Torygg was considered by many, came into power, having no true knowledge of what it meant to be High King because Skyrim never needed a 'true High King' since they joined the Empire.

Ulfric's father was Jarl when the White-Gold Concordat was accepted. He was considered a boy because he was young, and new.

Ulfric has no knowledge of what it is to be High King either, he has never been one. By ancient tradition Torygg was a 'True' High King, though tradition is only good when it suits Ulfric.

Ulfric calls Torygg's father a true High King, yet they were still part of the Empire also Istlod had accepted and forced the White-Gold Concordat on the other Jarls. Yet he was a true High King, but Torygg who greatly respected Ulfric and was interested in hearing more about independence wasn't a true High King? Why? Because Ulfric killed him?

Maybe because Ulfric felt like it was time for a change in the politics? Namely the Empire staying out of Skyrim's leadership position, and felt that Torygg was not going to budge in time for the Next Great War for reasons Stentor says he did not even though he greatly admired Ulfric for speaking his mind in the moot, which would have been the best time to decide whether or not Skyrim was going to go independent?

But then again, Ulfric is not a true High King either, because he is still trying to secure his candidacy as the sole candidacy, like the Empire is for Elisif, who is not a true High Queen either for that very reason.

 

[shadowkitty]

My Dragonborn is a vampire, a breton and a mage. No nord wants any one of those things sitting on a throne telling them what to do. Let alone all three in one convenient little package.

So is mine! I agree

 

[shadowkitty]

I would not like my Dragonborns to be high King. I had a Khajiit, a skaal, an assassin, a 19 year old sellsword, and a vampire lord newbie. Not HK material.

 

[DrunkenMage]

But then again, Ulfric is not a true High King either, because he is still trying to secure his candidacy as the sole candidacy, like the Empire is for Elisif, who is not a true High Queen either for that very reason.

There is a chance Elisif may not become High Queen. By Nordic tradition she still must have the moot elect her, and the moot takes on it's proper role. Torygg became King by birth, he was Istlod's heir, so the Pact of Chieftains applied where it was merely a formality. With no heir to the throne, all of the Jarls have a claim for the throne.

Ulfric's case is different, he positioned himself so he has no opposition, his armies loyal only to him. Soldiers of the Legion aren't sworn to any Jarl, so the balance of power isn't one sided. Elisif's steward doesn't say she will be High Queen after the war is over in Imperial victory, he only mentions no one can deny she also has legitimate claim. So too does Balgruuf, Brina etc.

The Empire doesn't really care who sits on the throne, as long as order is restored and the King/Queen swear fealty to the Emperor.

At the moment in Skyrim, Tullius has authority over Elisif.

Elisif: "Again? He can't simply cancel an appointment with the Jarl! He serves in my capital city!"
Falk: "I'm afraid he can. His authority comes from the emperor. Who you also serve, technically."
Elisif: "He uses all of Haafingar's resources, and doesn't answer to me in the slightest?"

 

[Pronged Pickle]

My Dragonborn already killed everybody in Skyrim. Routed every location, every room.

Might as well be the High King now.

 

[Jo'rak Vandeni]

Honestly though (correct me if I'm wrong) shouldn't the Dragonborn be a valid candidate for Emperor/Empress? The emperors were meant to be dragonborn weren't they? The Septim line I mean...

 

[Tyer032392]

Wow, gone for a few days and my topic is derailed by Jeremy Stone. Jeremy, if you want to debate who is right between the Imperials and Stormcloaks, and about the Prophecy of Alduin, I am kindly asking you to do it somewhere else and stop derailing my thread.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

Wow, gone for a few days and my topic is derailed by Jeremy Stone. Jeremy, if you want to debate who is right between the Imperials and Stormcloaks, and about the Prophecy of Alduin, I am kindly asking you to do it somewhere else and stop derailing my thread.

My first post was simply telling the truth, that Ulfric is not the true High King because he is simply a candidate for High King. DrunkenMage was the one who started on the Alduin Prophecy. Also, others derailed it with talk of Septim and emperors, which is not related to this thread except by the fact that they are both positions of power.

 

[Syrabane]

I think the Dragonborn depends on the player. My Dragonborn? Absolutely. Good natured and well meaning. Highly skilled and blah blah blah. She'd be perfect to lead Skyrim. Other Dragonborns, though... do you really think the leader of the Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild would make a better High King than Ulfric or Elisif?

Actually, a cunning leader of the Thieves Guild would probably make a better leader than a well meaning warrior who lacks the political ability and ruthlessness needed to run a kingdom.

It's why I prefer the Tiber Septim of the Arcturian Heresy than the Talos of legend.

 

[HappyTroll]

I'm still on my first playthrough. My Dragonborn is a young Redguard woman. I chose Redguard because I wanted a well rounded character for magic and fighting. Coming up with a back story for her was tough once I got more into the game. When doing Main quest stuff I have to say it doesn't feel "right" that she is the Dragonborn. I have a bunch of other characters in my head but I don't want to abandon this chick just yet. I do feel that it should be a Nord or a Nord mix.

incidentally were all of the Emperors Imperials?

 

[Tyer032392]

I'm still on my first playthrough. My Dragonborn is a young Redguard woman. I chose Redguard because I wanted a well rounded character for magic and fighting. Coming up with a back story for her was tough once I got more into the game. When doing Main quest stuff I have to say it doesn't feel "right" that she is the Dragonborn. I have a bunch of other characters in my head but I don't want to abandon this chick just yet. I do feel that it should be a Nord or a Nord mix.

incidentally were all of the Emperors Imperials?

Tiber Septim (Talos) was a Nord who came from Skyrim if I recall correctly.

 

[Hildolfr]

I think the Dragonborn depends on the player. My Dragonborn? Absolutely. Good natured and well meaning. Highly skilled and blah blah blah. She'd be perfect to lead Skyrim. Other Dragonborns, though... do you really think the leader of the Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild would make a better High King than Ulfric or Elisif?

Actually, a cunning leader of the Thieves Guild would probably make a better leader than a well meaning warrior who lacks the political ability and ruthlessness needed to run a kingdom.

It's why I prefer the Tiber Septim of the Arcturian Heresy than the Talos of legend.

Well, I would imagine that leaders like Genghis Khan or Alexander the Great or Julius Caesar or Alaric the Visigoth or Harald Hadrada or ...

Anyway, I think those people would probably disagree with you. It seems to me that history has a long list of well meaning warriors who were absolutely amazing kings/emperors. I think Genghis Khan has my favorite example of a warrior ruler who knows how to get things done. Once he conquered all the lands around him he was content, his people were happy, and his family strong. He reached out to the sultan in distant lands, offering peaceful trade. He had things the sultan's people wanted and they had things his people wanted. The sultan agreed and in good faith, Genghis Khan sent a caravan of goodies, but the caravan was ransacked by one of the sultan's underlings on its way. When Genghis Khan sent an emissary to find out what happened and what the punishment was going to be to that underling, the sultan messed up the emissary's face and sent him back to the Khan. Genghis Khan, being a warrior, was insulted and decided to march to the sultan's palace pillaging and killing everything in between.

That is how a well-meaning warrior king conducts business. You reach out with diplomacy and when it doesn't go right, you kill everything in sight. Nothing underhanded or diabolical. Not wheels moving wheels moving wheels. Just some good ol' kill everything that crosses your path. I have no doubt Kodlak Whiteman would make a better king than Mercer Frey... or Brynjolf, since Mercer Frey clearly has some serious issues and Brjnjolf is a badass in his own right.

I say all this when I'm a HUGE fan of espionage stories, lol. Spy novels, movies, shows... love'em all. And I think the Thieves Guild is the closest thing to that. I could totally see a Dragonborn warrior king utilizing the Thieves Guild, though. That would be awesome.

 

[HappyTroll]

I thought so, but it does sound like an Imperial name.

 

[DestroyerDevourMaster]

I think he is the true High King. The Dragonborn is, in my own opinion,

Spoiler

The next emperor of Tamriel.

 

[Fenix09]

I know my dragonborn would be a vampire king the king of kings in my eyes and ulfric no he isn't the high king to me

 

[DrunkenMage]

incidentally were all of the Emperors Imperials?

Talos was either Nord or Breton. There have been Nord, Imperial, Breton Emperors. There has been a Dark Elf Empress, also Akaviri and Altmer Potentate (Acting Emperor).

There could of also once been giants in some position of power like the Elder Council, it would explain the massive throne and massive club in the basement of the Imperial Palace. Though I'm speculating on that one.

I thought so, but it does sound like an Imperial name.

It is, he took the Imperial name Tiber Septim when he became Emperor. He was originally General Talos/Hjalti Early-Beard.