Is it just me or is it difficult making a character to side with the Stormcloaks?

[osheao]

i've obviously been a bit, um, one-sided in my profiling, but, the ulfric "racism" is likewise overblown for storytelling purposes. the act of racism is NOT inherently negative in the world of TES.

for all that bethesda gets ripped for it's lack of storytelling, they sure do a nice job of being open to a huge variety of choices rather than the small, weak possibilities within bioware games: go straight or left. choose blue or good. bioware "morality" is a joke. mass effect storytelling is a joke, yet, applauded despite the open world beauty of TES.

 

[osheao]

Just a question, but when Galmor asks the dragonborn why he wants to join the storm cloaks as a certain race, what does he say about orcs, red guards, and bosmer?

unfortunately, nothing. racial tension, bigotry and hatred should have expanded since morrowind.
not, gone the route of tolerance, love and meaninglessness.

will i ever get an adult, mature, complex, deep, difficult, sophisticated game ever again?

 

[lonewolf]

I think I'm one of the only die hard Empire supporters that's played through the entire Stormcloak quest line. What I've learned is that most people in Skyrim just want things to get back to normal and get on with their lives. I think the Stormcloaks are a good example of the 80/20 rule - 20% of the population is causing 80% of the problems.

I'm fine with the idea of an independant Skyrim (I disagree with it, but I understand it), but I can't believe there are people that actually think Ulfric should be king after visting Windhelm and reading The Bear of Markarth.

i agree completely the idea of an idependant skyrim isnt a bad one if wasnt ulfric in charge and they were actually working with the empire to fight the AD theyd be much further ahead then they are now. I still think staying with the Empire is the best choice though

 

[nacman99]

its funny because stormcloack supporters have 0-1 reputation in the forum, while the empire supporters are 12-32. i dont really understand how anyone can support ulfric. the empire had no choice in signing the damn agreement. and do ulfric really thinks he can defeate the aldmeri dominion with his group of unexpirienced soldiers.

and please osheao chill out bro, dont stress your self by a forum post.

 

[Mr.Self Destruct]

i've obviously been a bit, um, one-sided in my profiling, but, the ulfric "racism" is likewise overblown for storytelling purposes. the act of racism is NOT inherently negative in the world of TES.

for all that bethesda gets ripped for it's lack of storytelling, they sure do a nice job of being open to a huge variety of choices rather than the small, weak possibilities within bioware games: go straight or left. choose blue or good. bioware "morality" is a joke. mass effect storytelling is a joke, yet, applauded despite the open world beauty of TES.

I see you're still saying dumb things, keep up the good work.

Sent from HTC app Tapatalk

 

[VonCrown]

I'm actually curious, and considering making a poll- How many of the people who support Ulfric have played previous Elder Scrolls titles? I'm legitimately wondering if past experience with (perhaps even loyalty to) the Empire is a factor in all these considerations?

(The following is, obviously, semi-in character. Please excuse my silliness )

I did end up siding with the empire, but admittedly, it was a little bit of a tough decision. I had more loyalty to the Septim line, back in the day, being a close friend and confidante to old Uriel and all. Why, back in the day, he was just about the only one to tolerate my, ehm, unusual dietary needs and skin condition.

In the end, though, when I weighed in my heart, and really compared what I heard this Ulfric boy spouting to the ideals, the ideals that old Uriel had tried as best he could to build on, of a united Empire, of all the people of Tamriel, and the stronger for it.
You know, he used to even joke that maybe one day my kind might be accepted. If we could figure out a way to work around dietary concerns, that is.

In the end, I decided to honor the old man's memory, and his legacy. And I rained magickal fury on those traitorous stormcloak bastards, the likes of which can only come from a few eras of study and practice.
Ha, you should have seen the look on their faces when I busted out the good 'ole levitation spells.

 

[Argonianale7]

From a lore perspective the Stormcloaks hate/fear just about every race that isn't Nord while the Empire, as a whole, seems very racially tolerant. I intended on siding with the Stormcloaks before playing Skyrim because it seems to have been set up to look like the "good" faction but my first character was a Dark Elf. Needless to say, one visit to Windhelm quickly changed my mind.


There's no reason any of the non-Nord races would join the Stormcloaks...

Orcs? They have a good relationship with the Empire due to their valuable smithing abilities and military prowess. In fact, I think the only socially acceptable reason for leaving one's stronghold is if an Orc goes off to serve the Legion. (correct me if I'm wrong)

Khajiit? Not allowed into any cities in Skyrim and are instead forced to travel in trade caravans.

Argonians? Riften is the only city that "accepts" them, and given the city's reputation that isn't really saying much. In Windhelm they're treated even worse than the Dark Elves who are at least allowed inside the city.

Altmer? Tolerated by Nordic society (by force) but largely hated/distrusted by individual Nords.

Dunmer? They've been allowed to stay as refugees in Windhelm after fleeing from Morrowind but that's about the limit of Ulfric's hospitality/tolerance. The city has segregated living areas so the Dunmer are forced to live in a ghetto, which the Stormcloaks ignore and neglect, and the city's Nords aren't exactly friendly either. On the other hand, when the Imperials take Windhelm one of the new Jarl's first concerns is improving the quality of life for local Argonians and Dunmer. Winterhold doesn't seem too trusting of them either due to their association with the College.

Imperials? Publicly hated by the Stormcloaks, due to being the major race of the Empire, and thought to be corrupt/power hungry/cowards.

Redguards and Bosmer? The only two races that are tolerated, and only that, by the Stormcloaks and most of Skyrim. Faendal's "Riverwood's agreeable enough, I suppose. For a Nord village." and Amren's "Hmph. No, friend, that I'm not. But I get along with your kind well enough." (if the player is a Nord) are evidence of this. Even then, the Stormcloaks want to rid Skyrim of all non-Nords and don't view the Redguards or Bosmer as allies so this tolerance is only temporary.


I want to see the game from the Stormcloak's side, as I've already sided with the Empire, but I'm not very fond of playing a Nord and I can't get myself to join them with any other race. :/

From a lore perspective the Stormcloaks hate/fear just about every race that isn't Nord while the Empire, as a whole, seems very racially tolerant. I intended on siding with the Stormcloaks before playing Skyrim because it seems to have been set up to look like the "good" faction but my first character was a Dark Elf. Needless to say, one visit to Windhelm quickly changed my mind.


There's no reason any of the non-Nord races would join the Stormcloaks...

Orcs? They have a good relationship with the Empire due to their valuable smithing abilities and military prowess. In fact, I think the only socially acceptable reason for leaving one's stronghold is if an Orc goes off to serve the Legion. (correct me if I'm wrong)

Khajiit? Not allowed into any cities in Skyrim and are instead forced to travel in trade caravans.

Argonians? Riften is the only city that "accepts" them, and given the city's reputation that isn't really saying much. In Windhelm they're treated even worse than the Dark Elves who are at least allowed inside the city.

Altmer? Tolerated by Nordic society (by force) but largely hated/distrusted by individual Nords.

Dunmer? They've been allowed to stay as refugees in Windhelm after fleeing from Morrowind but that's about the limit of Ulfric's hospitality/tolerance. The city has segregated living areas so the Dunmer are forced to live in a ghetto, which the Stormcloaks ignore and neglect, and the city's Nords aren't exactly friendly either. On the other hand, when the Imperials take Windhelm one of the new Jarl's first concerns is improving the quality of life for local Argonians and Dunmer. Winterhold doesn't seem too trusting of them either due to their association with the College.

Imperials? Publicly hated by the Stormcloaks, due to being the major race of the Empire, and thought to be corrupt/power hungry/cowards.

Redguards and Bosmer? The only two races that are tolerated, and only that, by the Stormcloaks and most of Skyrim. Faendal's "Riverwood's agreeable enough, I suppose. For a Nord village." and Amren's "Hmph. No, friend, that I'm not. But I get along with your kind well enough." (if the player is a Nord) are evidence of this. Even then, the Stormcloaks want to rid Skyrim of all non-Nords and don't view the Redguards or Bosmer as allies so this tolerance is only temporary.


I want to see the game from the Stormcloak's side, as I've already sided with the Empire, but I'm not very fond of playing a Nord and I can't get myself to join them with any other race. :/

From a lore perspective the Stormcloaks hate/fear just about every race that isn't Nord while the Empire, as a whole, seems very racially tolerant. I intended on siding with the Stormcloaks before playing Skyrim because it seems to have been set up to look like the "good" faction but my first character was a Dark Elf. Needless to say, one visit to Windhelm quickly changed my mind.


There's no reason any of the non-Nord races would join the Stormcloaks...

Orcs? They have a good relationship with the Empire due to their valuable smithing abilities and military prowess. In fact, I think the only socially acceptable reason for leaving one's stronghold is if an Orc goes off to serve the Legion. (correct me if I'm wrong)

Khajiit? Not allowed into any cities in Skyrim and are instead forced to travel in trade caravans.

Argonians? Riften is the only city that "accepts" them, and given the city's reputation that isn't really saying much. In Windhelm they're treated even worse than the Dark Elves who are at least allowed inside the city.

Altmer? Tolerated by Nordic society (by force) but largely hated/distrusted by individual Nords.

Dunmer? They've been allowed to stay as refugees in Windhelm after fleeing from Morrowind but that's about the limit of Ulfric's hospitality/tolerance. The city has segregated living areas so the Dunmer are forced to live in a ghetto, which the Stormcloaks ignore and neglect, and the city's Nords aren't exactly friendly either. On the other hand, when the Imperials take Windhelm one of the new Jarl's first concerns is improving the quality of life for local Argonians and Dunmer. Winterhold doesn't seem too trusting of them either due to their association with the College.

Imperials? Publicly hated by the Stormcloaks, due to being the major race of the Empire, and thought to be corrupt/power hungry/cowards.

Redguards and Bosmer? The only two races that are tolerated, and only that, by the Stormcloaks and most of Skyrim. Faendal's "Riverwood's agreeable enough, I suppose. For a Nord village." and Amren's "Hmph. No, friend, that I'm not. But I get along with your kind well enough." (if the player is a Nord) are evidence of this. Even then, the Stormcloaks want to rid Skyrim of all non-Nords and don't view the Redguards or Bosmer as allies so this tolerance is only temporary.


I want to see the game from the Stormcloak's side, as I've already sided with the Empire, but I'm not very fond of playing a Nord and I can't get myself to join them with any other race. :/

I do think that the Dark Elves deserved it though, in Morrowind most of the houses had so many Argonian slaves that you could compare it to Ancient Rome, they even took some slaves from Black Marsh. After the eruption of Red Mountain and the Argonians took over Morrowind the Dark Elves mostly moved to Skyrim or over parts of Tamriel and started complaining about their conditions when the Argonians got it even worse.

 

[Valyn]

I'm actually curious, and considering making a poll- How many of the people who support Ulfric have played previous Elder Scrolls titles? I'm legitimately wondering if past experience with (perhaps even loyalty to) the Empire is a factor in all these considerations?

(The following is, obviously, semi-in character. Please excuse my silliness )

I have played the ES games from Morrowind, and I still joined with Ulfric. You people are fools, you think joining the Empire is helping their cause? No, it's helping the Thalmor's. If you think that the Thalmor are really on your side, you are just plain stupid. Even if Skyrim is ravaged and destroyed after the Civil War, it is better than a Thalmor rule. If you know anything about the Great War, you would know about the horrible things the Elves did.

 

[Janus3003]

I have played the ES games from Morrowind, and I still joined with Ulfric. You people are fools, you think joining the Empire is helping their cause? No, it's helping the Thalmor's. If you think that the Thalmor are really on your side, you are just plain stupid. Even if Skyrim is ravaged and destroyed after the Civil War, it is better than a Thalmor rule. If you know anything about the Great War, you would know about the horrible things the Elves did.

Status: Asset (uncooperative), Dormant, Emissary Level Approval
Description: Jarl of Windhelm, leader of Stormcloak rebellion, Imperial Legion veteran
Background: Ulfric first came to our attention during the First War Against the Empire, when he was taken as a prisoner of war during the campaign for the White-Gold Tower. Under interrogation, we learned of his potential value (son of the Jarl of Windhelm) and he was assigned as an asset to the interrogator, who is now First Emissary Elenwen. He was made to believe information obtained during his interrogation was crucial in the capture of the Imperial City (the city had in fact fallen before he had broken), and then allowed to escape. After the war, contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset.The so-called Markarth Incident was particularly valuable from the point of view of our strategic goals in Skyrim, although it resulted in Ulfric becoming generally uncooperative to direct contact.
Operational Notes: Direct contact remains a possibility (under extreme circumstances), but in general the asset should be considered dormant. As long as the civil war proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off. The incident at Helgen is an example where an exception had to be made - obviously Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim. (NOTE: The coincidental intervention of the dragon at Helgen is still under scrutiny. The obvious conclusion is that whoever is behind the dragons also has an interest in the continuation of the war, but we should not assume therefore that their goals align with our own.) A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed.

Valyn, it's cool if you prefer the Stormcloaks, but both sides have strong arguments. It's foolish to dismiss your opposition as fools in this case.
Heck, I've yet to see anyone say they believe the Thalmor on their side. They're hated by a vast majority of players, from what I've seen.

 

[Somohexual]

First of all, I'm shocked by how much this topic has blown up. It's going to take me forever to read through all of these replies. :3


I don't really think it's fair to compare groups saying which "deserved" it and which "deserves" sympathy. Yes, enslavement of the Argonian people is definitely one of the darker sides of Dunmer society/history. That doesn't mean the Dunmer have to be punished in turn to "repay" what they've done. If you segregate (or for comparison, enslave) the Dunmer will that give the Argonians all of those years lost in slavery back to them? No.

It's like saying the proper resolution to the Civil Rights movement was to legalize racism against white people, cause they deserved it, rather than striving for equality for all.

 

[Valyn]

Valyn, it's cool if you prefer the Stormcloaks, but both sides have strong arguments. It's foolish to dismiss your opposition as fools in this case.
Heck, I've yet to see anyone say they believe the Thalmor on their side. They're hated by a vast majority of players, from what I've seen.

I didn't call anyone a fool, I just said that if you think the Thalmor are really on your side than you are.

 

[Docta Corvina]

Seriously, I don't know who in this thread has ever said they believe the Thalmor is on their side - even more importantly, perhaps, I don't know why anyone would want or believe such a thing. No one I know who supports the Empire supports the Thalmor in any sense. Quite to the contrary, we despise it and want to see it destroyed or otherwise disabled forever. And we believe, rightly or wrongly in the end, that the best and most conceivable way of achieving that is by a unified front. We believe that Ulfric's efforts are and will prove to be grievously counterproductive in that future fight.

So, no, no one here (that I have seen) has posited any hopes for Thalmor support or favor. I really have not the foggiest idea where you've gotten that impression from.

 

[Valyn]

Hmm. What you said might make me change my mind. It is just that Ulfric is so cool, and Stormcloaks are pretty awesome too.

 

[Serebro Moniker]

Hmm. What you said might make me change my mind. It is just that Ulfric is so cool, and Stormcloaks are pretty awesome too.

....yeah, dude is pretty badass

 

[nacman99]

valyn who said that by joining the legion you are helping the thalmor?
by joining the stormcloacks you are helping the thalmor, because you are weakening the empire(the only force that has a chance against the thalsmor).

 

[Dagmar]

According to the law. General Tullius commited treason by killing the High King, and an innocent man.

This is a complete fabrication easily refuted by the lore. It's a well established fact that under Imperial law, the killing of any allegiated sovereign of an Imperial province under any circumstances is considered high treason and punishable by death. This overrides the Nordic right of challenge which isn't even a law, it's a cultural tradition.

Ignorance of the law is no defense. Be forewarned that the following are but the most universal of Tamrielan laws and regulations. Your own local province or principality may have unique laws of its own. As a citizen of Empire, it is your right and responsibility to know and follow these laws of the land.

High Treason:

Any act against (whether directly or indirectly, or any nonaction which results in circumstances, directly or indirectly, against) a allegiated sovereign or by a vassal to a liege, resulting (or what a reasonable person would assume would result) in physical, emotional, mental, or magical harm or injury in said sovereign or liege. The punishment for this crime will be death.

General Tullius is acting under full color and authority of the laws that govern all provinces of the Empire including Skyrim. Ulfric is the one guilty of High Treason.

As an educated nobleman and former Imperial Legionnaire, common sense dictates that Ulfric knows basic Imperial law, and therefore the only reasonable conclusion to draw is that he knows that the Imperial Legion will come after him after him to arrest and execute him for High Treason after he kills the High King. It's a cold calculated move on his part to plunge Skyrim into a civil war which is why it's irrefutable that Ulfric is the architect of the war.

This is related to the second part of your fabrication. Ulfric is NOT the High King. The right of challenge does not bequeath the High King's Throne to the victor in a challenge between the High King and another. Again this misguided notion is refuted both by the lore and by Ulfric's own words in the game. It is also the primary reason why Ulfric instigates the civil war. Again by his own words in the game, it's clear that he doesn't believe the current Moot would ever elect him to the position of High King. The only way he is going to be able to become High King is by using the civil war to prevent a meeting of the current Moot and to remove the Jarls that would vote against his ascension to the High Throne.

You're simply buying into the Stormcloak propoganda which is enshrined in their oath of loyalty. I found it either incredibly hypocritical or wildly ignorant on the part of the Stormcloaks that they would take the position of claiming to be "true sons of Skyrim" that respect and uphold Nordic traditions when their basic oath requires them to spit on one of the most important and respected ones, the authority of the Moot in selecting the High King.

 

[Valyn]

I don't even care about this thread anymore because it's 6 vs. 1.

 

[Dagmar]

I don't even care about this thread anymore because it's 6 vs. 1.

That tends to happen when you take a position that's not supported by anything other than your mere opinion, try to bolster it by making claims that aren't even true, and ultimately are relegated to relying on ad hominems that expose the weakness of your position.

 

[Valyn]

No, it's because everyone supports the Empire.

 

[Google]

No, it's because everyone supports the Empire.

I don't care for ether side to tell you the truth. I just don't like Ulfirc, and I'm saying it is hard to join a rebellion that has a leader that I dislike.