Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[DrunkenMage]

it is a misunderstanding of getting lumped in with the rebels (Them thinking you are one). was not saying you were wrong, just that them thinking you are one, is equal to them simply lumping you in with the rebels, because that is essentially what they did. Kill everyone and sort it out later because they all might be rebels.

Seems we have the same idea, just different views of it.

Except it wasn't a "Kill everyone sort it out later" the actual plan wasn't the execution, you were heading for Cyrodiil to face judgement in front of the Emperor Titus Mede II. Tullius changed his plan and diverted into Helgen, for whatever reasons is anyone's guess. Pale Pass being blocked due to avalanches, the Thalmor intending to interfere. Perhaps both, Pale Pass being blocked could of made Tullius speed things up, expecting a trap. Or him knowing the Thalmor wouldn't let a slow moving prison convoy stop their plans.

Tullius firmly believes the Thalmor are to blame for the rebellion, not so much simply Ulfric Stormcloak. He believes all this unrest is due to the Thalmor stirring up trouble.

The sudden appearance of Elenwen in Helgen would suggest the Thalmor were indeed tracking and following the prison transport. Executing the rebels and you included by summary execution, seemed more the only option given the situation, it also made sure the Thalmor couldn't stop it from happening. A fortified village with walls and towers, protected within by an entire Legion garrison. They wouldn't of been able to do anything, Elenwen's personal appearance was perhaps a desperate last ditch attempt by the Thalmor. Most likely they were intending to ambush the convoy on it's way to the Imperial City.

The Thalmor may of fooled the last Legion Commander during the early bits of the war, when they tried to capture Ulfric. Tullius however, was more alert to their plans and onto their game it seems.

 

[Sweetroll Thief]

Welcome to the thread, I'll throw in my two cents. Mainly cause I enjoy a debate with someone who can see both sides. Though I'm Empire by personal choice.

The Thalmor were unable to operate freely and take whoever they wanted, it wasn't until the rebellion was there a crack down. The Thalmor needed evidence to make an arrest, which is how for over twenty years there weren't any issues of people being kidnapped for worshiping in secret. If you visit Markarth, the head of the Thalmor Justiciars asks you to break into someone's house to find evidence of Talos worship because the Empire supporting Jarl won't call for his arrest on speculation.

Thanks for the reply. I think I'm "neither" by personal choice, or "conflicted". I do think Tullius is a good, honorable man, and I do think he's got more clarity of thought than Ulfric, with the PTSD he's wading through.

Point of clarification, though, on the above quote: did the Thalmor literally do *nothing* prior to Ulfric's uprising, or were they allowed to detain, torture, and kill those whose Talos worship can be proven with evidence? Because there's an immense difference between the two, and if it's the latter I really can't discuss it in a completely Watsonian way.

"We didn't pay much attention to it when I was a boy - everyone still had their little shrine to Talos. But then Ulfric and his "Sons of Skyrim" started agitating about it, and sure enough the Emperor had to crack down."

I'm holding a reply to that quote until you clarify on my question, too. If literally nothing was ever done, fine. If nothing was done *without evidence*, I have to impeach Hadvar somewhat as a source.

The Thalmor are using the Civil War to conduct a large inquisition against the Nordic population. They do it to send supporters flocking towards Ulfric's banner, the Thalmor are gaining from the Civil War. They were in Helgen to try stop the execution and save Ulfric's life.

They provide indirect aid towards to the Stormcloaks, the Aldmeri Dominion seek to weaken the Empire, who are their sworn enemies and are against everything the Empire stands for.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak

Yes, but neither do they want a quick and decisive Stormcloak victory, such that the player can provide. That too is in the dossier.

The Empire and Thalmor are going to war, there is no doubt about it. The Imperial Army is already on the Dominion's borders and the Thalmor are preparing for a second round also.

Your lore knowledge is vastly superior to mine, as this is my first TES game and I'm frantically swotting up on the lore, so I'll ask for another point of clarification. How soon is this war likely to happen, and how likely is the Empire to win it?

The way I see it, both sides are making an implicit contract with the Dragonborn. Both contracts rest on future promises and neither are certainties-- a rational person can find reason to doubt both. By the end of the civil war questline the player is powerful and likely to understand their role in the world better than at the beginning (depending on how much of the main questline is played), so it comes down to which contract the Dragonborn feels they can best influence to come true. The Imperial contract is that if Skyrim just puts up with this Thalmor interference for a while longer, the Empire can amass the forces and win a war against the Dominion, after which the ban against Talos-worship will be rescinded. The uncertainty being how long before this war happens (until your above quote I would have said "and IF this war happens", since it doesn't seem clear from the questline that it absolutely will-- where can I find more information about the Empire's willingness to engage and capacity to engage, and does the DB know that?), and whether the Empire can actually win it. The Stormcloak contract is that, if a speedy victory is won by Ulfric, he can pull the country together well enough and quickly enough that it could actually matter against the Dominion. Additionally, 1) that Ulfric, bitter, damaged, and vengeful as he is, is capable of becoming a good king, and 2) is able, as king, to reach out to other parts of Tamriel with animus against the Thalmor and ally with them against the Dominion.

It's odd, with the Empire I thought "I believe you *want* to succeed, I'm just not sure you can" and with Ulfric I thought "I believe you *can* succeed, I'm just not sure you want to". I felt that my Dragonborn has a unique role to play in unifying Skyrim with either side, but I'm not sure I see my Imperial Dragonborns as doing more than simply being a cog in a wheel, while my Stormcloak Dragonborns speak truth to power and mediate between Ulfric and his people. I don't think the Stormcloak contract comes true without the player, and without the player being able to be that buffer. (I bet the majority of Stormcloak DBs are Nord true believers, too, the type IMO least likely to end up with an actually long-term-successful King Ulfric.)

When Ulfric understands the threat of Alduin he takes it seriously, so too does Tullius. I don't know about the end of the world, but this dragon situation has gotten out of hand. If this truce will help the Dragonborn here put an end to that menace, we both gain. Remember that, Ulfric.

Tullius is a good man, I just don't think he gets it-gets it. I don't think Tullius is contemptuous of Nords, but he's impatient and I don't think he imagines he'll be there long enough that he needs to culturally understand Nords-- which comes off as contempt. They both put bullets in their own feet in different ways. Ulfric can be detestable, and Tullius inflexible and exasperating. OTOH, Tullius literally goes to his grave trying to say "but you're helping them win!", he's professional to the very end, and I love Ulfric's wonder at the times he's living in. I wish my character could be part of a victory against the Dominion and then give them both what they actually *need* and send Tullius home and take Ulfric as my traveling companion, since for all that he's said to grasp at power, I've never been convinced that he actually bone-deep wants power, just that he thinks he's the only one capable of taking it "on behalf of Skyrim". Galmar believes in him more than he does, I think. I have no idea who I think should be High King, though Torygg sounds like a decent guy in retrospect even if his wife is useless.

 

[Jeremius]

it is a misunderstanding of getting lumped in with the rebels (Them thinking you are one). was not saying you were wrong, just that them thinking you are one, is equal to them simply lumping you in with the rebels, because that is essentially what they did. Kill everyone and sort it out later because they all might be rebels.

Seems we have the same idea, just different views of it.

Except it wasn't a "Kill everyone sort it out later" the actual plan wasn't the execution, you were heading for Cyrodiil to face judgement in front of the Emperor Titus Mede II. Tullius changed his plan and diverted into Helgen, for whatever reasons is anyone's guess. Pale Pass being blocked due to avalanches, the Thalmor intending to interfere. Perhaps both, Pale Pass being blocked could of made Tullius speed things up, expecting a trap. Or him knowing the Thalmor wouldn't let a slow moving prison convoy stop their plans.

Tullius firmly believes the Thalmor are to blame for the rebellion, not so much simply Ulfric Stormcloak. He believes all this unrest is due to the Thalmor stirring up trouble.

The sudden appearance of Elenwen in Helgen would suggest the Thalmor were indeed tracking and following the prison transport. Executing the rebels and you included by summary execution, seemed more the only option given the situation, it also made sure the Thalmor couldn't stop it from happening. A fortified village with walls and towers, protected within by an entire Legion garrison. They wouldn't of been able to do anything, Elenwen's personal appearance was perhaps a desperate last ditch attempt by the Thalmor. Most likely they were intending to ambush the convoy on it's way to the Imperial City.

The Thalmor may of fooled the last Legion Commander during the early bits of the war, when they tried to capture Ulfric. Tullius however, was more alert to their plans and onto their game it seems.

Likely the war just makes EVERYONE loopy and not knowing what is logic. They likely decided to turn around not just because of Pale Pass, but because it would make much more of an impact on the Stormcloaks to know they their leader was executed on their home turf, Skyrim, where as it makes no impact if you take him outside of Skyrim

Everyone gets mistaken for a stormcloak because the legion was treating people they caught like rebels because they were at the ambush. just saying. wrong place wrong time+badcall on both the legion's and Player's part, as the PC was too dumb to stick to the main roads or go to a main city.

 

[Sweetroll Thief]

it is a misunderstanding of getting lumped in with the rebels (Them thinking you are one). was not saying you were wrong, just that them thinking you are one, is equal to them simply lumping you in with the rebels, because that is essentially what they did. Kill everyone and sort it out later because they all might be rebels.

Seems we have the same idea, just different views of it.

Except it wasn't a "Kill everyone sort it out later" the actual plan wasn't the execution, you were heading for Cyrodiil to face judgement in front of the Emperor Titus Mede II. Tullius changed his plan and diverted into Helgen, for whatever reasons is anyone's guess. Pale Pass being blocked due to avalanches, the Thalmor intending to interfere. Perhaps both, Pale Pass being blocked could of made Tullius speed things up, expecting a trap. Or him knowing the Thalmor wouldn't let a slow moving prison convoy stop their plans.

Tullius firmly believes the Thalmor are to blame for the rebellion, not so much simply Ulfric Stormcloak. He believes all this unrest is due to the Thalmor stirring up trouble.

The sudden appearance of Elenwen in Helgen would suggest the Thalmor were indeed tracking and following the prison transport. Executing the rebels and you included by summary execution, seemed more the only option given the situation, it also made sure the Thalmor couldn't stop it from happening. A fortified village with walls and towers, protected within by an entire Legion garrison. They wouldn't of been able to do anything, Elenwen's personal appearance was perhaps a desperate last ditch attempt by the Thalmor. Most likely they were intending to ambush the convoy on it's way to the Imperial City.

The Thalmor may of fooled the last Legion Commander during the early bits of the war, when they tried to capture Ulfric. Tullius however, was more alert to their plans and onto their game it seems.

Likely the war just makes EVERYONE loopy and not knowing what is logic. They likely decided to turn around not just because of Pale Pass, but because it would make much more of an impact on the Stormcloaks to know they their leader was executed on their home turf, Skyrim, where as it makes no impact if you take him outside of Skyrim

just saying.

IDK, I like Drunken Mage's logic here, it fits with what we know of Tullius: that he sees through the Thalmor, that he detests politics and just wants to do his part asap and get out of there, and that he puts his Emperor-given duty to end the rebellion first. Execute him, end rebellion. And frustrate Thalmor. It fits him, don't you think?

Besides, I don't agree that it makes no impact if you take him outside of Skyrim. Dying on foreign soil was a massive fear to RL ancient peoples and that tabu fits with how Skyrim's Nords think. A quick death in Skyrim isn't a bad thing at all from this POV-- a show trial where he's put out like a zoo exhibit to the degenerate people of Imperial City, slandered, tortured, and eventually killed would be immensely more provocative to his supporters, IMO.

 

[Jeremius]

I AM NOT SAYING IT IS NOT WRONG PLACE WRONG TIME! I AM SAYING IT WAS BECAUSE THE LEGION AT THE AMBUSH WERE ONLY LOOKING FOR REBELS SO AUTOMATICALLY SUSPECTED EVERYONE AT THAT BLOODY AMBUSH OF BEING ONE!

Here is how I see the whole "Wrong place, wrong time, just a simple mistake that the general sarcastically apologises for" garbage:

The ambush was specifically set up to catch the Stormcloaks. This means that the legion assumed that anyone caught in it was a dumb rebel. being caught in the ambush made you automatically a stormcloak because that was all the legion was supposed to catch. They do not spend time dealing with you because you were already a stormcloak rebel to them, and nothing was going to change that. SO I see it as an insult on the legion's part to the player, and a bad call on the player's part. Wrong place wrong time and mistake identity are one and the same here, and both morally and logically wrong.

If you do not get it: The Legion were Ordered to capture the rebels, this leads the soldiers and officers to assume that everyone caught is a rebel, and that was the end of it.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Point of clarification, though, on the above quote: did the Thalmor literally do *nothing* prior to Ulfric's uprising, or were they allowed to detain, torture, and kill those whose Talos worship can be proven with evidence? Because there's an immense difference between the two, and if it's the latter I really can't discuss it in a completely Watsonian way.

The Thalmor were allowed to arrest someone on evidence, but they were extremely limited. It took them an entire week of someone shouting about Talos in Markarth (Where the Justiciars are based) to arrest him.

They could arrest and detain someone, but they could also be ordered to release the prisoners.

I'm holding a reply to that quote until you clarify on my question, too. If literally nothing was ever done, fine. If nothing was done *without evidence*, I have to impeach Hadvar somewhat as a source.

Enforcement was poor, it was done but not done in the same sense. The Talos Ban itself wasn't winning Ulfric supporters, since it would have been so poorly enforced the Nords didn't all care. Ulfric killed Torygg as a message to the other Jarls.

Yes, but neither do they want a quick and decisive Stormcloak victory, such that the player can provide. That too is in the dossier.

It is in the dossier, they want to avoid a Stormcloak victory. However, it then falls to what you feel stands a better chance, cutting the Empire in half just on the brink of war with the Thalmor. Stormcloak goals are noble, but timing comes into play. Nothing much changes, there is still the banning of a religion in the Reach over the natives. Also the Stormcloak supporters there once they become Jarl, speak of enslaving the natives. Slavery having been banned by the Empire, no longer would apply.

Your lore knowledge is vastly superior to mine, as this is my first TES game and I'm frantically swotting up on the lore, so I'll ask for another point of clarification. How soon is this war likely to happen, and how likely is the Empire to win it?

The Civil war is considered an interlude before the main event with the Thalmor resumes. Since nearly the entire Imperial Army is on the Aldmeri Dominion's border, they would be close. The Civil war would have delayed the Empire, with them having to rebuild and restore order in Skyrim. It will be a few years, judging by Tullius' dialogue where he says Skyrim will be his home for a couple years.

The Legion isn't exactly known for bluffing, an aggressive action made by the Empire putting the army on the Thalmor's doorstep is a clear sign. It would also coincide with why the Thalmor are stirring as much trouble as they can in Skyrim to distract the Empire, turning their attention away from them to the rebellion.

How likely is the Empire to win? If you read the book 'The Great War' anytime the Empire went on the offensive, they won every single engagement. The Empire is prepared, they know the threat. They plan to face the threat. The reason the Thalmor had an advantage was due to surprise, and kept pushing. Once they had attacked the Legions, they pressed their advance keeping them moving back.

The Stormcloak contract is that, if a speedy victory is won by Ulfric, he can pull the country together well enough and quickly enough that it could actually matter against the Dominion. Additionally, 1) that Ulfric, bitter, damaged, and vengeful as he is, is capable of becoming a good king, and 2) is able, as king, to reach out to other parts of Tamriel with animus against the Thalmor and ally with them against the Dominion.

Majority of Stormcloaks are xenophobic, Skyrim isn't exactly surrounded by friends. They had just pushed out the Empire, that removes friendly ties to Cyrodiil. High Rock is Empire, Hammerfell and Morrowind is left. Skyrim and Hammerfell have had a history of not getting a long for over an era, the Nords never assisted the Redguards in their fight, also the last time Imperial authority was low. Skyrim invaded High Rock and Hammerfell stealing many miles of land. They haven't returned it yet.

Morrowind, well the racial segregation won't sit too well. Also Skyrim assaulted House Redoran during the Oblivion Crisis (House Redoran is now the ruling House of Morrowind, and maintain an elite standing army.)

Tullius is a good man, I just don't think he gets it-gets it. I don't think Tullius is contemptuous of Nords, but he's impatient and I don't think he imagines he'll be there long enough that he needs to culturally understand Nords-- which comes off as contempt.

At the end of the questline, Tullius' attitude has changed towards the Nords. He mentions he may not understand them, but he has come to respect them. He also says Skyrim will be his home for many years, he actually hands political duties over to Legate Rikke. Since she understands things more, it also technically makes Legate Rikke the de facto ruler of Skyrim.

They likely decided to turn around not just because of Pale Pass,

Well considering that is the main pass into Cyrodiil... Turning around because of it, kind of makes sense. Be like driving to a dead end and then saying you're not turning around because of it.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Besides, I don't agree that it makes no impact if you take him outside of Skyrim. Dying on foreign soil was a massive fear to RL ancient peoples and that tabu fits with how Skyrim's Nords think. A quick death in Skyrim isn't a bad thing at all from this POV-- a show trial where he's put out like a zoo exhibit to the degenerate people of Imperial City, slandered, tortured, and eventually killed would be immensely more provocative to his supporters, IMO.

Feed him to the mountain lions in the Imperial City Arena.

 

[Jeremius]

Besides, I don't agree that it makes no impact if you take him outside of Skyrim. Dying on foreign soil was a massive fear to RL ancient peoples and that tabu fits with how Skyrim's Nords think. A quick death in Skyrim isn't a bad thing at all from this POV-- a show trial where he's put out like a zoo exhibit to the degenerate people of Imperial City, slandered, tortured, and eventually killed would be immensely more provocative to his supporters, IMO.

Feed him to the mountain lions in the Imperial City Arena.

perhaps. but that is not the major impact. It would not truly affect the rebels either way because then he is a martyr either way. Killing him in Skyrim makes it clear that "You keep this up, this will be you."

 

[DrunkenMage]

perhaps. but that is not the major impact. It would not truly affect the rebels either way because then he is a martyr either way. Killing him in Skyrim makes it clear that "You keep this up, this will be you."

They were going to kill him in Cyrodiil. His head is going on a spike on the walls of the Imperial City. Executing him in Skyrim wasn't the plan, Tullius just had to adapt and speed things up. It doesn't matter where you kill him, he was originally going to be sentenced by the Emperor.

Killing him in front of thousands, at the order of the Emperor would make a statement. Killing him inside a legion held fortified village, where the only witnesses are members of the Legion and a couple of peasants, somehow makes it more of an impact?

Killing him in front of the Elder Council, the Emperor, the Lords and Ladies of the Courts and thousands of citizens. Kind of makes a larger impact. Though that is my take on it.

The attempted execution in Helgen made his supporters consider it cowardly. Making it out like the Empire was afraid of doing it as a public thing.

 

[Jeremius]

perhaps. but that is not the major impact. It would not truly affect the rebels either way because then he is a martyr either way. Killing him in Skyrim makes it clear that "You keep this up, this will be you."

They were going to kill him in Cyrodiil. His head is going on a spike on the walls of the Imperial City. Executing him in Skyrim wasn't the plan, Tullius just had to adapt and speed things up. It doesn't matter where you kill him, he was originally going to be sentenced by the Emperor.

Killing him in front of thousands, at the order of the Emperor would make a statement. Killing him inside a legion held fortified village, where the only witnesses are members of the Legion and a couple of peasants, somehow makes it more of an impact?

Killing him in front of the Elder Council, the Emperor, the Lords and Ladies of the Courts and thousands of citizens. Kind of makes a larger impact. Though that is my take on it.

I know it was not the plan, just that, from my viewpoint, that it makes more sense to kill him in his homeland as an example of what happens to traitors, and not parade him like an animal.

It would make an impact on a few people, as the common person would probably not know or care who he is/was, where as killing him in Skyrim and letting word get out that he was dead would lead to the rebels doubting the cause much more quickly.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I know it was not the plan, just that, from my viewpoint, that it makes more sense to kill him in his homeland as an example of what happens to traitors, and not parade him like an animal.

Except his supporters called it cowardly, that the Empire was somehow afraid to do it as a public thing.

 

[Jeremius]

I know it was not the plan, just that, from my viewpoint, that it makes more sense to kill him in his homeland as an example of what happens to traitors, and not parade him like an animal.

Except his supporters called it cowardly, that the Empire was somehow afraid to do it as a public thing.

and it would affect all of the Emperor, the Elder council and a handful of soldiers there. nobody in Cyrodiil is really paying attention to Skyrim, outside of the upper echelons of the Imperial government. At least from what I see.

So how will it make a bigger impact to kill the leader of the rebellion where only a handful of people are going to care?

 

[DrunkenMage]

and it would affect all of the Emperor, the Elder council and a handful of soldiers there. nobody in Cyrodiil is really paying attention to Skyrim, outside of the upper echelons of the Imperial government. At least from what I see.

So how will it make a bigger impact to kill the leader of the rebellion where only a handful of people are going to care?

Because people love violence. Same reason people go watch gladiators get killed in the arena. It is a public event, people are cheering. They may not care now, but when person is being executed for High Treason in front of them, they care.

 

[Jeremius]

and it would affect all of the Emperor, the Elder council and a handful of soldiers there. nobody in Cyrodiil is really paying attention to Skyrim, outside of the upper echelons of the Imperial government. At least from what I see.

So how will it make a bigger impact to kill the leader of the rebellion where only a handful of people are going to care?

Because people love violence.

Really? Because I see that the Stormcloaks would call the Imps coward if they find out that they killed their leader in the heart of imperial government instead of dying on the Nord's soil. Imperials get called cowards either way, from what I can see. At least have it so the word gets out more quickly than in front of a few politicians who are the only one who really care.

 

[Majir-Dar]

and it would affect all of the Emperor, the Elder council and a handful of soldiers there. nobody in Cyrodiil is really paying attention to Skyrim, outside of the upper echelons of the Imperial government. At least from what I see.

So how will it make a bigger impact to kill the leader of the rebellion where only a handful of people are going to care?

Because people love violence.

Really? Because I see that the Stormcloaks would call the Imps coward if they find out that they killed their leader in the heart of imperial government instead of dying on the Nord's soil. Imperials get called cowards either way, from what I can see. At least have it so the word gets out more quickly than in front of a few politicians who are the only one who really care.

Remember the man that got executed in Solitude? He was a common gate guard that betrayed his city. Now you have a rebel leader that betrayed his empire. People are going to care.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Really? Because I see that the Stormcloaks would call the Imps coward if they find out that they killed their leader in the heart of imperial government instead of dying on the Nord's soil. Imperials get called cowards either way, from what I can see. At least have it so the word gets out more quickly than in front of a few politicians who are the only one who really care.

Doesn't matter, it would of been done. Taking Ulfric to the heart of Imperial rule, to be sentenced by the Emperor himself. To be executed in front of thousands, not just a few politicians. People care when an event is made out of it, if he's executed in Cyrodiil. The Stormcloaks aren't going to have a rally. Kill Ulfric in Skyrim. He's bled on Skyrim's soil, he's got the rally he needs. He died in Skyrim, defending his people, his blood soaking their homeland.

 

[Jeremius]

Really? Because I see that the Stormcloaks would call the Imps coward if they find out that they killed their leader in the heart of imperial government instead of dying on the Nord's soil. Imperials get called cowards either way, from what I can see. At least have it so the word gets out more quickly than in front of a few politicians who are the only one who really care.

Doesn't matter, it would of been done. Taking Ulfric to the heart of Imperial rule, to be sentenced by the Emperor himself. To be executed in front of thousands, not just a few politicians.

thousands who likely do not know/care who he is. There is dialogue with Hadvar who says, if you pick the options that suggest you have no clue what is going on, that those down in Cyrodiil have more important things to deal with that what is going on up north.

 

[DrunkenMage]

thousands who likely do not know/care who he is. There is dialogue with Hadvar who says, if you pick the options that suggest you have no clue what is going on, that those down in Cyrodiil have more important things to deal with that what is going on up north.

They don't need to know who he is, there is a difference to caring about something you hear. To caring about something you see, to have Ulfric executed in Cyrodiil makes a statement. It is in front of them, right then and there.

Killing Ulfric in Skyrim, gives the Stormcloaks a rally. He died defending his people, his blood soaking in the soil of the land he loved. It is the same way he boosts recruitment by apparently spreading the rumor he died defending Windhelm from a dragon personally.

 

[Jeremius]

thousands who likely do not know/care who he is. There is dialogue with Hadvar who says, if you pick the options that suggest you have no clue what is going on, that those down in Cyrodiil have more important things to deal with that what is going on up north.

They don't need to know who he is, there is a difference to caring about something you hear. To caring about something you see, to have Ulfric executed in Cyrodiil makes a statement. It is in front of them, right then and there.

Killing Ulfric in Skyrim, gives the Stormcloaks a rally. He died defending his people, his blood soaking in the soil of the land he loved. It is the same way he boosts recruitment by apparently spreading the rumor he died defending Windhelm from a dragon personally.

good point. but it does not make an impact to me, as it will not affect much if he is paraded about like an animal. If anything, that would probably tick the Stormcloaks off even more and still rally them against the "Imperial cowards."

 

[DrunkenMage]

good point. but it does not make an impact to me, as it will not affect much if he is paraded about like an animal. If anything, that would probably tick the Stormcloaks off even more and still rally them against the "Imperial cowards."

Without Ulfric holding them together, they'd fall apart. Ulfric was their leader, it would make an impact on those throughout the Empire. It makes a larger impact than a quiet, simple execution.

The Stormcloaks would fade away either way, but that doesn't matter. You want to make sure it never happens again, throughout Cyrodiil and High Rock too. Makes criminals think twice, makes those who also have thoughts of doing treason think twice.