Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[AS88]

I wish you'd cite your quotes with who/where they come from, to see if there's context or a response. Although I sense that's part of the reason why you don't

That is a quote from Ulfric Stormcloak. The context is 'Why are you fighting this war' asked by the player character.

If there is a needed context to get the picture, or if it's dialogue between NPCs and responses, I put the whole thing.

Otherwise, it is fine to stand alone. If you want the whole thing, http://cs.uesp.net/index.php?game=sr&formid=0x000c348f

I think it's better to cite the quote no matter where it's from. Not only does it lend more credibility to your arguments through proving where it comes from (although I know your comments are properly researched), but it encourages other to source their arguments and do their own research, too.

 

[Mookie]

HOW THE HELL ARE YOU BETTER AT DEBATING BEING A STORMCLOAK?!!

I didnt think I will see a day when he defends the Stormcloak positions
But I guess truth surfaces up after some time

 

[Rimfaxe96]

While we can't decide what side to pick at least we can all agree on one enemy.

I looked for the quest "Runil's Dark Past" by the way, the Arkay priest in Falkreath. His journal made clear where he's coming from, but that cut quest gives a bit more detail:

"Burying the past is much harder than burying remains. I'm... I'm afraid of what you will think of me if I tell you about the things I've done."

"Although I have not practiced in a long time I was once a wizard. Even when I was young my magic was undeniably powerful. It was that power that brought me to the attention of the Thalmor. In the Summerset Isles it is a great honor to be chosen to serve the Thalmor."

"They are the governing council of the Aldmeri Dominion. They lead us to attack the Empire and forced the Empire to agree to stop worshiping Talos. It was during the war with the Empire that I was at the height of my power. As a Thalmor battlemage I laid waste the enemy. Men, women, children, no one was spared my wrath. I destroyed whole villages."

"I dream about those days still. Except I'm not me. I can see myself there and I try to stop what I know is going to happen but... Many of the Empire's troops were Nords at that point. Some of them could even have been from around here."

This actually gives me some flashbacks of images from a nearby holocaust museum.

 

[NENALATA]

While we can't decide what side to pick at least we can all agree on one enemy.

I looked for the quest "Runil's Dark Past" by the way, the Arkay priest in Falkreath. His journal made clear where he's coming from, but that cut quest gives a bit more detail:

"Burying the past is much harder than burying remains. I'm... I'm afraid of what you will think of me if I tell you about the things I've done."

"Although I have not practiced in a long time I was once a wizard. Even when I was young my magic was undeniably powerful. It was that power that brought me to the attention of the Thalmor. In the Summerset Isles it is a great honor to be chosen to serve the Thalmor."

"They are the governing council of the Aldmeri Dominion. They lead us to attack the Empire and forced the Empire to agree to stop worshiping Talos. It was during the war with the Empire that I was at the height of my power. As a Thalmor battlemage I laid waste the enemy. Men, women, children, no one was spared my wrath. I destroyed whole villages."

"I dream about those days still. Except I'm not me. I can see myself there and I try to stop what I know is going to happen but... Many of the Empire's troops were Nords at that point. Some of them could even have been from around here."

This actually gives me some flashbacks of images from a nearby holocaust museum.

Men, women and children... whole villages... are nothing, not even worth considering once you think about how the Thalmor wiped out entire Legions. Clearly the Nords are what saved everybody, Nords and probably Orcs with them (the shield wall that came down from the North with whatever else the Empire had). Next time, it will be even worse because the Nords are leaving the Empire and no longer wish to resist outside of Skyrim, of course. Possibly even worse than this, is the fact that Skyrim effectively cuts off any assistance from Highrock, so no Breton Battlemages for the Empire. They could travel extremely long route via sea or maybe get a writ of passage with Hammerfell, however both routes are unreliable and not controlled by the Empire.

Cyrodil will burn and then become ours. Whoever rules Cyrodil, rules the Empire of Tamriel. If things continue going the way they are, your next Emperor/Empress will be from Alinor. Elenwen expresses "sympathy" for the Nords during season unending and Ulfric expresses fear of the Thalmor, which he should be afraid, after he wins Solitude. Ulfric is not the savior people think he is and the Thalmor who have manipulated him before shall continue to do so and Skyrim will not get involved during the next Great War. Ulfric will more than likely come to some kind of terms with Thalmor, as Hammerfell has done. Hammerfell also won't help anyone, because they have come to terms with the Thalmor.

The only thing stopping the Thalmor from reaching their objective is the Empire. And WGC has very little to do with that. More like the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Epic Keith]

I've decided, I'm switching to a Thalmor because Mage hurt my bum! ;(
Seriously no more taking sides. I've been on both ends of the argument and Mage convinced me twice that both are equally bad. So long my fellow Imperials!

 

[Mirrored]

While we can't decide what side to pick at least we can all agree on one enemy.

I looked for the quest "Runil's Dark Past" by the way, the Arkay priest in Falkreath. His journal made clear where he's coming from, but that cut quest gives a bit more detail:

"Burying the past is much harder than burying remains. I'm... I'm afraid of what you will think of me if I tell you about the things I've done."

"Although I have not practiced in a long time I was once a wizard. Even when I was young my magic was undeniably powerful. It was that power that brought me to the attention of the Thalmor. In the Summerset Isles it is a great honor to be chosen to serve the Thalmor."

"They are the governing council of the Aldmeri Dominion. They lead us to attack the Empire and forced the Empire to agree to stop worshiping Talos. It was during the war with the Empire that I was at the height of my power. As a Thalmor battlemage I laid waste the enemy. Men, women, children, no one was spared my wrath. I destroyed whole villages."

"I dream about those days still. Except I'm not me. I can see myself there and I try to stop what I know is going to happen but... Many of the Empire's troops were Nords at that point. Some of them could even have been from around here."

This actually gives me some flashbacks of images from a nearby holocaust museum.

Men, women and children... whole villages... are nothing, not even worth considering once you think about how the Thalmor wiped out entire Legions. Clearly the Nords are what saved everybody, Nords and probably Orcs with them (the shield wall that came down from the North with whatever else the Empire had). Next time, it will be even worse because the Nords are leaving the Empire and no longer wish to resist outside of Skyrim, of course. Possibly even worse than this, is the fact that Skyrim effectively cuts off any assistance from Highrock, so no Breton Battlemages for the Empire. They could travel extremely long route via sea or maybe get a writ of passage with Hammerfell, however both routes are unreliable and not controlled by the Empire.

Cyrodil will burn and then become ours. Whoever rules Cyrodil, rules the Empire of Tamriel. If things continue going the way they are, your next Emperor/Empress will be from Alinor. Elenwen expresses "sympathy" for the Nords during season unending and Ulfric expresses fear of the Thalmor, which he should be afraid, after he wins Solitude. Ulfric is not the savior people think he is and the Thalmor who have manipulated him before shall continue to do so and Skyrim will not get involved during the next Great War. Ulfric will more than likely come to some kind of terms with Thalmor, as Hammerfell has done. Hammerfell also won't help anyone, because they have come to terms with the Thalmor.

The only thing stopping the Thalmor from reaching their objective is the Empire. And WGC has very little to do with that. More like the tip of the iceberg.

And why, exactly, do you think Ulfric won't get involved with the next war against the Dominion? If you've played the Stormcloak storyline all the way through, you'd notice that one of their stated objectives now that the Empire has been driven out of Skyrim is to amass their forces to eventually take the fight to the Dominion. The Stormcloaks have no intention of simply huddling up in the north and ignoring the Thalmor.

Also, Hammerfell didn't 'come to terms' with the Thalmor. The Dominion suffered significant losses during their campaign in the region and were forced to withdraw after 5 years of fighting.

 

[NENALATA]

And why, exactly, do you think Ulfric won't get involved with the next war against the Dominion? If you've played the Stormcloak storyline all the way through, you'd notice that one of their stated objectives now that the Empire has been driven out of Skyrim is to amass their forces to eventually take the fight to the Dominion. The Stormcloaks have no intention of simply huddling up in the north and ignoring the Thalmor.

Normally, while I believe in asking questions, if I have to answer this one, that means you haven't truly listened to the Stormcloaks. Or paid much attn to Ulfric's speeches.

Also, Hammerfell didn't 'come to terms' with the Thalmor. The Dominion suffered significant losses during their campaign in the region and were forced to withdraw after 5 years of fighting.

Significant losses become insignificant when consider that the Thalmor's Hammerfell invasion force mostly escaped or was allowed to leave and the fact that majority of Thalmor infrastructure survived. So Cyrodil and Hammerfell were devastated but the Aldmeri lands were for the most part untouched, save the few very destructive blades operations, which were localized. Hammerfell also has a peace treaty with the Thalmor now, which I'm sure was accompanied by other provisions as well in order to prevent future conflicts.

 

[Mirrored]

Normally, while I believe in asking questions, if I have to answer this one, that means you haven't truly listened to the Stormcloaks. Or paid much attn to Ulfric's speeches.

Also, Hammerfell didn't 'come to terms' with the Thalmor. The Dominion suffered significant losses during their campaign in the region and were forced to withdraw after 5 years of fighting.

In other words, you have no real proof that Ulfric intends to hide up in Skyrim while the Dominion ransacks the rest of the world. Allow me to do you a favor then.

"I am indeed Ulfric Stormcloak, and at my side the man we know as Stormblade, and the world knows as the Dragonborn.

And indeed, there are many that call us heroes. But it is all of you who are the true heroes! It was you who faught a dying Empire who sunk its claws into our land, trying to drag us down with it. It was you who fought the Thalmor and their puppets who would have us deny our gods and our heritage. It was you who fought your kin who didn't understand our cause, who weren't willing to pay the price of our freedom. But more than that, it was you who fought for Skyrim, for our right to fight our own battles... to return to our glory and traditions, to determine our own future!

And it is for these reasons that I cannot accept the mantle of "High King." Not until the Moot declares that title should adorn my shoulders will I accept it.

A great darkness is growing, and soon we will be called to fight it, on these shores or abroad.

The Aldmeri Dominion may have defeated the Empire, but it has not...defeated... Skyrim!"

Straight from Ulfric's victory speech after the Battle for Solitude. It hardly sounds like he plans on rolling up and ignoring the Dominion. In fact, it sounds like he plans on fighting them. Hm.

Significant losses become insignificant when consider that the Thalmor's Hammerfell invasion force mostly escaped or was allowed to leave and the fact that majority of Thalmor infrastructure survived. So Cyrodil and Hammerfell were devastated but the Aldmeri lands were for the most part untouched, save the few very destructive blades operations, which were localized. Hammerfell also has a peace treaty with the Thalmor now, which I'm sure was accompanied by other provisions as well in order to prevent future conflicts.

See, the issue with this line of logic is simple. The Altmer, like all elves, have long lives but low reproductive rates. This means that it takes much longer for the military of the Dominion to recover compared to say, the Empire. And the losses they suffered in the war were huge. The entire invading force in Cyrodill was destroyed, and they suffered significant but undefined losses in Hammerfell. Even if the infrastructure in the Summerset Isles is untouched, it doesn't matter. You could have all the wealth and supplies in the world, but it means nothing if you don't have the manpower to back it up.

Also, the only thing we know about the Second Treaty of Stros M'kai is that it dictated the full withdrawal of all Dominion forces from Hammerfell. Anything else is conjecture.

 

[Epic Keith]

A few points before my departure Mage.
1) what about ulfrics childish reaction in the mission Season unending? Apparently he cares more about his holds than the fate of the world.
2) ulfric doesn't care about the non nords in his kingdom yet he rushes to save the nords? Yet the storm cloaks claim he isn't racist.

 

[Rimfaxe96]

Men, women and children... whole villages... are nothing, not even worth considering once you think about how the Thalmor wiped out entire Legions.

Of course it's little in comparison to the damage done in total, but still. That was a single battlemage, with maybe a few minions helping. Although I believe he might not have needed it, depending on how many guards were left when everything's in chaos and the Legions needed every man they could get.

2) ulfric doesn't care about the non nords in his kingdom yet he rushes to save the nords? Yet the storm cloaks claim he isn't racist.

He's a nationalist, which actually isn't a crime or negative. If he was racist he would have for example killed all Dunmer and used whatever resources he might have gotten from that little quarter in his city for his Stormcloaks.
If he wouldn't care for the Nords, who would? Clearly most Dunmer don't care much for the Nords either. There's always been this basic human-elven-antagonism though, so that's not much of a surprise.

I'll remain on my own side but if I had to pick I'll still go for the Empire. They're at least ready/getting ready to fight. Emperor alive or dead, most of the Legions have been stationed at the border and not just for a picknick. Ulfric has to sweep the remnants of a half-devastated Skyrim together before he can do anything unless like so many Stormcloak supporters say he'll immediately rush for the fight against the Dominion and leaves Skyrim behind with a few he considers capable of doing so.
Yes the Empire is corrupted, probably always has been at some point, but I'm seeing more of a future with them than with the Stormcloaks. Too bad we don't know the political aftermath of TMII's assassination (yet), if he was ever assassinated that is since you can choose between kilthe Emperor and killing the Dark Brotherhood.

 

[Mookie]

A few points before my departure Mage.
1) what about ulfrics childish reaction in the mission Season unending? Apparently he cares more about his holds than the fate of the world.
2) ulfric doesn't care about the non nords in his kingdom yet he rushes to save the nords? Yet the storm cloaks claim he isn't racist.

1. What about Tulius's reaction as well? He has the same one if on loosing side. Kick the Thalmor out, give him Dawnstar in exchange for Markarth and see the ensuing plopsstorm.
2. Same as any country in the world. Nords are the ones that fight for him. The Dunmer who lived in his city for 200 years say its not their fight. If the war is not their fight, how are their fights Ulfric's problem?

 

[NENALATA]

A few points before my departure Mage.
1) what about ulfrics childish reaction in the mission Season unending? Apparently he cares more about his holds than the fate of the world.
2) ulfric doesn't care about the non nords in his kingdom yet he rushes to save the nords? Yet the storm cloaks claim he isn't racist.

Forget about DrunkenMage, the Thalmor would welcome you, if you this is what you want. I understand your frustration at the way things are going, I share it to a degree. It may be your just frustrated with the situation itself.

The choice is yours. I don't blame you for sticking around defending the Empire, I have done the same. There's still good left in the Empire and I'm a little worried if the Thalmor rule everything it would change them fundamentally, the way Talos changed the Empire. Turned them on the one who made them, fl*ffed up 'em all up in the head and such... made 'em greedy sort of. Although I really admire these Imperial Jarls. Good folk.

I'd suggest the Imperials on here find themselves a new spokesman.​

​

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[NENALATA]

A few points before my departure Mage.
1) what about ulfrics childish reaction in the mission Season unending? Apparently he cares more about his holds than the fate of the world.
2) ulfric doesn't care about the non nords in his kingdom yet he rushes to save the nords? Yet the storm cloaks claim he isn't racist.

1. What about Tulius's reaction as well? He has the same one if on loosing side. Kick the Thalmor out, give him Dawnstar in exchange for Markarth and see the ensuing pl***storm.
2. Same as any country in the world. Nords are the ones that fight for him. The Dunmer who lived in his city for 200 years say its not their fight. If the war is not their fight, how are their fights Ulfric's problem?

Gen Tullius's overall composure during that event is spectacular. Yes he gets a little upset but doesn't threaten to just 'quit' and take his ball and go home as Ulfric does. I've seen both replays and posted them on here prev. Gen Tullius does not fly into a rage or lose himself, in the end he tells Rikke to suit up, they have work to do.

Which means Gen Tullius realizes there are things he can't control and would rather take a break to understand what's going on so he can think his way thru the problem. Kind of like blue's clues in the thinking chair.

#2 is disconcerting. So, are you in fact saying that citizenship is not based on racial equality? Your statement expresses Ulfric's sentiment almost exactly. If the Dunmer have lived there for 200 yrs, then you can't say their needs should just be ignored for they have contributed much over time to Windhelm hold.

More of the same tsk tsk tsk. It's ok to live in the city for 200 yrs however the Lord of his Mightiness comes on the scene and now everyone owes him and he is not responsible for the suffering of 'his' people.

Tell me more about how the Stormcloaks are going to free Skyrim and her 'people'?

 

[DrunkenMage]

Next time, it will be even worse because the Nords are leaving the Empire and no longer wish to resist outside of Skyrim, of course. Possibly even worse than this, is the fact that Skyrim effectively cuts off any assistance from Highrock, so no Breton Battlemages for the Empire. They could travel extremely long route via sea or maybe get a writ of passage with Hammerfell, however both routes are unreliable and not controlled by the Empire.

Normally, while I believe in asking questions, if I have to answer this one, that means you haven't truly listened to the Stormcloaks. Or paid much attn to Ulfric's speeches.

"The Empire is weak, obsolete. Look at how far we've come and with so little. When we're done rooting out Imperial influence here at home, then we will take our war to the Aldmeri Dominion." - Ulfric Stormcloak

"There will be peace for a time, during which we must rebuild Skyrim into the land it once was. Strong. Self-reliant. The center of mankind. Because getting rid of the Empire was only half the problem. Soon, the elves will again seek to rule the world. We must ready ourselves to fight them. For it will be Skyrim that shall lead Tamriel in those dark days, when the fate of the world is finally determined." - Ulfric Stormcloak

"First we'll kick the Thalmor and their bloody Imperial puppets out of the country. Then we'll rebuild Skyrim into the land she once was. When we are done with that, we will take our army to the Dominion, and show those pointy-eared bastards not every man is fit to be their slave." Galmar Stone-Fist

"When we've reclaimed our homeland from the Imperials, we'll take the fight to the Thalmor. They are the true enemy. Make no mistake." - Galmar Stone-Fist

"Heh. Ulfric's put me in charge of keeping an eye on the new Jarls. You know, make sure they're generally following orders. Can't say I'm looking forward to that. But, I'll also be training men and women for their new armies. The Empire might send over a few Legionnaires to make sure we're serious, and of course, we'll be taking the fight to the elves soon enough. We'll need trained, disciplined and creative warriors ready for all that." - Galmar Stone-Fist

They don't seek to make war with the Aldmeri Dominion... what

 

[DrunkenMage]

A few points before my departure Mage.
1) what about ulfrics childish reaction in the mission Season unending? Apparently he cares more about his holds than the fate of the world.

General Tullius is the exact same, due to Whiterun being classed as Imperial controlled it'll be Ulfric who will make the opening statement, if you haven't started the Civil War.

2) ulfric doesn't care about the non nords in his kingdom yet he rushes to save the nords? Yet the storm cloaks claim he isn't racist.

Which only Brunwulf says, the Imperial sided would be Jarl. The Stormcloaks are nationalistic, not racist.

if he was ever assassinated that is since you can choose between kilthe Emperor and killing the Dark Brotherhood.

He is assassinated. If you destroy the Dark Brotherhood you don't really destroy it, two survive and the Night Mother. The Dark Brotherhood is 'destroyed' anyway by the Penitus Oculatus in the quest line, which Nazir and the Vampire girl survive (Cicero if you don't kill him). On Titus Mede II's ship there is a sailor who is a murderer, you come across him killing sleeping Penitus Oculatus.

So in any event, there is a way for the contract to be completed.

 

[Mookie]

A few points before my departure Mage.
1) what about ulfrics childish reaction in the mission Season unending? Apparently he cares more about his holds than the fate of the world.
2) ulfric doesn't care about the non nords in his kingdom yet he rushes to save the nords? Yet the storm cloaks claim he isn't racist.

1. What about Tulius's reaction as well? He has the same one if on loosing side. Kick the Thalmor out, give him Dawnstar in exchange for Markarth and see the ensuing pl***storm.
2. Same as any country in the world. Nords are the ones that fight for him. The Dunmer who lived in his city for 200 years say its not their fight. If the war is not their fight, how are their fights Ulfric's problem?

Gen Tullius's overall composure during that event is spectacular. Yes he gets a little upset but doesn't threaten to just 'quit' and take his ball and go home as Ulfric does. I've seen both replays and posted them on here prev. Gen Tullius does not fly into a rage or lose himself, in the end he tells Rikke to suit up, they have work to do.

Which means Gen Tullius realizes there are things he can't control and would rather take a break to understand what's going on so he can think his way thru the problem. Kind of like blue's clues in the thinking chair.

#2 is disconcerting. So, are you in fact saying that citizenship is not based on racial equality? Your statement expresses Ulfric's sentiment almost exactly. If the Dunmer have lived there for 200 yrs, then you can't say their needs should just be ignored for they have contributed much over time to Windhelm hold.

More of the same tsk tsk tsk. It's ok to live in the city for 200 yrs however the Lord of his Mightiness comes on the scene and now everyone owes him and he is not responsible for the suffering of 'his' people.

Tell me more about how the Stormcloaks are going to free Skyrim and her 'people'?

1. Tulius wasnt tortured by the woman which gets him so upset.

2. Its completely normal to take care of those who contribute first. If you cant help everyone why not prioritize those who fight and support you? Dunmer lived in Windhelm for 200 years and still dont see it as their home. They see it as a temporary place and think they will return to Morrowind. They turned Snow quarter into gray quarter due to that thinking. They dont invest money or themselves into Windhelm. Last winter there has been a huge snowstorm in my city and my house was piled under the snow, so I had to dig my way out. As it hapens my mother fell into the snow and couldnt get out due to it being so deep. A neighbour just walked by and didnt help her. Later on we cleaned the streets and I left his house under the snow. Am I wrong? The Dunmer do the same thing like the neighbour. He didnt hurt my mom, just like dunmer dont hurt Nords in Windhelm. But they didnt help either. So why should they be helped?

 

[Raijin]

A few points before my departure Mage.
1) what about ulfrics childish reaction in the mission Season unending? Apparently he cares more about his holds than the fate of the world.
2) ulfric doesn't care about the non nords in his kingdom yet he rushes to save the nords? Yet the storm cloaks claim he isn't racist.

1. With the way things are going with the Empire apparently Titus Mede II only cares about one thing and one thing only... to keep his throne after sacrificing so many people to the Thalmor with his poor decision.

2. Non Nords who live in Skyrim seems to not have a care in the world to what's going on that surrounds them, and refuse to acknowledge the devastation that it has unleashed for it doesn't effect their personal life style.

Rolff: "You come here where you're not wanted, you eat our food, you pollute our city with your stink and you refuse to help the Stormcloaks."
Suvaris: "But we haven't taken a side because it's not our fight."
Angrenor: "Hey, maybe the reason these gray-skins don't help in the war is because they're Imperial spies!"
Suvaris: "Imperial spies? You can't be serious!"
Rolff: "Maybe we'll pay you a visit tonight, little spy. We got ways of finding out what you really are."
Suvaris: "(Sigh)"

It is they that creates the racism that is the result of frustration of not lending a helping hands in the effort to save Skyrim from a corrupted Empire.

 

[NENALATA]

1. Tulius wasnt tortured by the woman which gets him so upset.

2. Its completely normal to take care of those who contribute first. If you cant help everyone why not prioritize those who fight and support you? Dunmer lived in Windhelm for 200 years and still dont see it as their home. They see it as a temporary place and think they will return to Morrowind. They turned Snow quarter into gray quarter due to that thinking. They dont invest money or themselves into Windhelm. Last winter there has been a huge snowstorm in my city and my house was piled under the snow, so I had to dig my way out. As it hapens my mother fell into the snow and couldnt get out due to it being so deep. A neighbour just walked by and didnt help her. Later on we cleaned the streets and I left his house under the snow. Am I wrong? The Dunmer do the same thing like the neighbour. He didnt hurt my mom, just like dunmer dont hurt Nords in Windhelm. But they didnt help either. So why should they be helped?

So then you freely admit that Ulfric has emotional problems resulting from his episode with Elenwen that affect his leadership abilities. No enterprise will profit from the mind of a broken leader, esp a charismatic one which is probably worst of all. And the Thalmor will never respect him because of it, Elenwen is playing with him... like a snake eyeing a baby bird.

Normal? Define normal. The Empire puts all Imperial citizens first - No one is special. The banning of Talos was an exception, not the rule.

The problem here is civics my friend. Your relationship with your neighbor or someone passing thru is not the same as matters of state. Dunmer lived in Windhelm for years and did not have any major problems until Ulfric took over. It actually says that in the game, there's a tome on it (Scourge of the Grey Quarter) and then the people's dialogue concerning it.

The problem is Ulfric is making his opinion and that of the prominent Nords of his company, STATE POLICY. No where - anywhere else in Skyrim do the Dark Elves AND Argonians have a problem fitting into society because Imperial policy forbids the practice and the rest of the Stormcloaks Jarls are too busy focused on the war. After the war, Ulfric has Galmar working with them to make sure everyone is on the same page.

Glad your mom is ok btw.

 

[NENALATA]

NENALATA said: ↑

Next time, it will be even worse because the Nords are leaving the Empire and no longer wish to resist outside of Skyrim, of course. Possibly even worse than this, is the fact that Skyrim effectively cuts off any assistance from Highrock, so no Breton Battlemages for the Empire. They could travel extremely long route via sea or maybe get a writ of passage with Hammerfell, however both routes are unreliable and not controlled by the Empire.​

NENALATA said: ↑

Normally, while I believe in asking questions, if I have to answer this one, that means you haven't truly listened to the Stormcloaks. Or paid much attn to Ulfric's speeches.​

"The Empire is weak, obsolete. Look at how far we've come and with so little. When we're done rooting out Imperial influence here at home, then we will take our war to the Aldmeri Dominion." - Ulfric Stormcloak

"There will be peace for a time, during which we must rebuild Skyrim into the land it once was. Strong. Self-reliant. The center of mankind. Because getting rid of the Empire was only half the problem. Soon, the elves will again seek to rule the world. We must ready ourselves to fight them. For it will be Skyrim that shall lead Tamriel in those dark days, when the fate of the world is finally determined." - Ulfric Stormcloak

"First we'll kick the Thalmor and their bloody Imperial puppets out of the country. Then we'll rebuild Skyrim into the land she once was. When we are done with that, we will take our army to the Dominion, and show those pointy-eared bastards not every man is fit to be their slave." Galmar Stone-Fist

"When we've reclaimed our homeland from the Imperials, we'll take the fight to the Thalmor. They are the true enemy. Make no mistake." - Galmar Stone-Fist

"Heh. Ulfric's put me in charge of keeping an eye on the new Jarls. You know, make sure they're generally following orders. Can't say I'm looking forward to that. But, I'll also be training men and women for their new armies. The Empire might send over a few Legionnaires to make sure we're serious, and of course, we'll be taking the fight to the elves soon enough. We'll need trained, disciplined and creative warriors ready for all that." - Galmar Stone-Fist

They don't seek to make war with the Aldmeri Dominion... what

Yes however there are two voices speaking here, with Galmar's being the loudest.

Ulfric is talking about defending Skyrim, not going after the Dominion. Galmar may mean well, however the war with the Empire will drag on for years. It simply will not end once the Stormcloaks win. Furthermore, whose to say the Jarls are going to comply with all of these demands and wishful expectations being hammered down on Skyrim's battered economy? There is no self-reliant economics model when it comes to war. In order to win a war, you MUST have allies. You have to count on losing the economy you have due to the enemy. The Empire is ready to deal with something like this as opposed to Ulfrican Economics which is going to hurt not just Skyrim, but all of the economies around Skyrim that rely on Skyrim's good and services.

I understand this is Tamriel, however, something like this would result in Skyrim actually FALLING BEHIND in the real world.

 

[NENALATA]

Epic Keith said: ↑

2) ulfric doesn't care about the non nords in his kingdom yet he rushes to save the nords? Yet the storm cloaks claim he isn't racist.​

Which only Brunwulf says, the Imperial sided would be Jarl. The Stormcloaks are nationalistic, not racist.

Right which is why the only city where racism is enforced is Windhelm. Stormcloak capital. Not to mention the comment from the Stormcloak guards about having an Orc stronghold, (which is little more than a city) being an afront to 'his' people. Might also have something to do with that being the largest Ebony supply in Skyrim and of course, the Nords are entitled to that more than the Orcs who've lived there probably since the days of Ysgramor.

Probably the biggest indicator of racism in Windhelm is the fact that Ulfric REFUSES to fix his city's problems. I say Windhelm and not Stormcloaks because if Ulfric becomes High King of Skyrim, judging by his Admin record as Jarl, and the fact that alot of the social problems in the city started with his rule, as Jarl, it's safe to say Skyrim would become similar with more racism becoming the accepted norm in Nord society and state policy.

Not to mention all of the dead, mutilated, tortured, set on fire bodies you find of Elves, Imperials and Khajits in 'Nord' bandit forts. Many of these same Nords make comments such, "Skyrim belong to the Nords" and "Your kind has no place here", which subscribes to Stormcloak doctrine. Galmar even has a problem with you joining the Stormcloaks because you're an outsider. Brunwulf says this and that about Ulfric, first meeting with Ulfric his stewart mentions the Dark Elves need help and Ulfric acts like he doesn't care.

I know there's a war on and everything... however a leader is not judged simply by War, but thru his Admin abilities as well. Why should Ulfric be 'given' Skyrim when he can't even manage his own city? How can he be trusted with protecting Nord society, when he commits treason against his country by obstructing the normal operation(s) of it's Gov?

After Torygg died, you had 9 Jarls.

4 - Pro-Imperial
4- Pro-Stormcloak
1 - Wildcard (Jarl B)

And every Jarl had a shot at becoming High King, even Ulfric. They could have had a bi-partisan Moot with everyone's political interests represented in Skyrim and just chosen a new High King from there minus all the bloodshed and the B$.

And Ulfric committed treason by refusing to allow the Moot, so in doing so, Ulfric put his interests ahead of the people's interests in Skyrim. And he's doing the same thing with this fictional war with the Thalmor. The Stormcloaks in Riverwood, some of the Stormcloak Jarls, hell even Ulfric himself expresses a desire not to fight anymore on foreign soil. He gives devoutes and entire speech on it and he does the same thing during Season Unending. Only in the end after he wins does he bring this up, although the validity of that speech can be called into question because he's telling people what they want to hear.

The Nords who support Ulfric are tired of war, he expresses his hatred for fighting wars on foreign soil (1st meeting in Windhelm), Ulfric wants a self-reliant Skyrim which will stop trade with other Provinces and now all of the sudden they're going to invade the Dominion.