Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Jeremius]

The moot is Nord culture. If you're the most good looking, popular, friendly you're High King material.

Nord=warrior culture, not popularity contest. Does not matter what the moot is/was, it was stupid to base high kingship off of who you like more if another candidate is better fit for the job.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Nord=warrior culture, not popularity contest. Does not matter what the moot is/was, it was stupid to base high kingship off of who you like more if another candidate is better fit for the job.

So who do you think is more popular in a culture of warriors? Or is that part not sinking into your skull.

 

[Anouck]

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others"​

Winston S. Churchill​

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A moot, an election, voting - it is all part of democracy. And as we all know, democracy has its flaws and is an incorrect system. Yet it is the best option out of all the things we've tried so far. It comes closest to a society where everyone is able to have a say in the way the country is ruled.​

The crowd has the power, but crowds are dangerous. People can make dumb decisions. Even, and maybe 'especially', in large groups when they often fail to think for themselves. Look at Nazi - Germany. The Germans were poor and desperate so they turned to Hitler. Look at the Netherlands. Only a few years ago people voted for a right extremist party - just because they were scared and needed a group to blame for their problems.​

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The first problem is that 99,9% of the world leaders actually think they are doing the right thing. Republicans who say being gay is a sin truly believe that is a good thing to do. Hitler, who wanted to 'cleanse' Germany from all the 'Untermenschen', believed he was being a hero for doing that.​

The second part of the problem, is that the people who vote for them think this too. I don't think there is a person who is like 'I am going to vote for that douche so he can ruin my country. Hell yeah'. The biggest idiots alive do what they do in the conviction that they are doing the right thing.​

Democracy has given us the Holocaust, but also the French Revolution. It has given us Bush, but also Churchill. I think that you expect too much of this system when you are waiting for perfect things to happen. Especially because there is always someone out there who dislikes a leader. I don't think it has ever occurred that 100% of a population stands behind their leader.​

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In a way, every single election is a popularity contest. Because the most popular person wins. The person most people agree with, is the person with the biggest percentage of the votes. Therefor he is most popular. And if you don't get votes, then you will have to find a way to become more popular. It is a popularity contest. But I don't know if we can avoid that. Even though it is bad and has errors.​

 

[Jeremius]

Nord=warrior culture, not popularity contest. Does not matter what the moot is/was, it was stupid to base high kingship off of who you like more if another candidate is better fit for the job.

So who do you think is more popular in a culture of warriors? Or is that part not sinking into your skull.

In this time? Whoever is bending knee to the Empire.

 

[Jeremius]

I think he is missing the point. Look there is a reason might stopped making right. Notice how Ulfric will attempt a moot once he suppresses everyone else. that is not a strong man's move. That is a weak mans...

That is a man who is guaranteed to win by popular vote. Like the Empire side. Elisif will win if the Empire wins the Civil War because she gets all the votes.

 

[DrunkenMage]

In this time? Whoever is bending knee to the Empire.

Which was every Jarl, before Ulfric's rebellion. So point being?

 

[NENALATA]

Skies said: ↑

I think he is missing the point. Look there is a reason might stopped making right. Notice how Ulfric will attempt a moot once he suppresses everyone else. that is not a strong man's move. That is a weak mans...​

That is a man who is guaranteed to win by popular vote. Like the Empire side. Elisif will win if the Empire wins the Civil War because she gets all the votes.

Something else... like, ok so Ulfric was running his mouth at Toyrgg's moot. And all the Jarls were there and they came to a majority vote. Right?

So... then... that means that at least (1) Jarl out of the current pot voted against Ulfric by voting for Torygg. Guess that means not all the Stormcloak Jarls are stacked in Ulfric's deck.

Anyone care to guess which one?

Because like Stentor said, if Torygg had denied the challenge, they could have called another moot to put it to a vote.

 

[Jeremius]

In this time? Whoever is bending knee to the Empire.

Which was every Jarl, before Ulfric's rebellion. So point being?

it was a joke. more than likely it would have been Elisif because she has the full backing of the Empire, and was Torygg's widow.

 

[Jeremius]

in the end, the Moot is a tradition, but one that some think is holding the Nords back from their true potential, and the choice can be countered by looking at the candidates' experiences in times of crises.

The Moot should entail how high Kings handle crisis moments, where they are absolutely needed (If the holds truly are independent for the most part).

 

[DrunkenMage]

Something else... like, ok so Ulfric was running his mouth at Toyrgg's moot. And all the Jarls were there and they came to a majority vote. Right?

So... then... that means that at least (1) Jarl out of the current pot voted against Ulfric by voting for Torygg. Guess that means not all the Stormcloak Jarls are stacked in Ulfric's deck.

No, Torygg's moot was a mere formality. He was Istlod's heir, so he was always going to be High King.

 

[Anouck]

I was saying that the moot is 100% wrong because of how it works. Is that what you were saying? That the moot should be done away with even though having it improves the Empire's hold on the warrior race of humankind?

I explained how moots, voting, elections and democracies work. I agree with you that it is 'wrong' that a person with bad plans gets power just because he is liked. You obviously misunderstood my post - yet you are too proud to admit it and remove the rating. I didn't give you a rating when you said TES takes place in a dream, something you completely made up. I think if I had to disagree with every single post you wrote, your entire bar would be grey.

My post ADDED to your point of view. I added extra information on elections, votings and moots. You hit the disagree button on someone who stated a fact that didn't even go against your view. Lol, it is not like I am ever going to try to back you up in a post again. Because when I do, you just give me a rating. Apparently you disagree with you too.

I removed the rating, but still disagree unless you tell me that the moot should be done away with for something that better fits the Nord culture or not.

If you come up with a better solution, I will be more than happy to embrace that. It is just not that easy.

 

[Jeremius]

I removed the rating, but still disagree unless you tell me that the moot should be done away with for something that better fits the Nord culture or not.

If you come up with a better solution, I will be more than happy to embrace that. It is just not that easy.

They do not have to remove the entire moot, just the popularity contest aspect, and replace that with a 'loot at this scenario, and who has the best way to solve that problem.' In this case, with the next Great War looming, someone who has been in that kind of hell would probably be the better High King than someone who was probably cared for all her life.

 

[DrunkenMage]

it was a joke.

I fail to see the humor.

They do not have to remove the entire moot, just the popularity contest aspect, and replace that with a 'loot at this scenario, and who has the best way to solve that problem.' In this case, with the next Great War looming, someone who has been in that kind of hell would probably be the better High King than someone who was probably cared for all her life.

Don't see the need. Elisif won't be fighting and the front lines won't be in Skyrim.

Also I don't see the point in this, you are debating about your issues with the moot? The Moot is how the Nords rule their province, if you don't like it. Why bring it up? It's a Nordic tradition. It's part of their culture.

The moot makes a choice based on popularity yes, but it makes the choice on who they feel is better suited. Skyrim doesn't need a warrior King, never has for a very long time. It isn't the First Era where a King will lead Skyrim's armies.

With a Great War looming, do you really need a warrior ruling a province that won't see any action? Or do you leave the province in the hands of someone who can keep the province running while the war is fought in other lands?

The Empire fights with the Legions. They're hardly going to make Elisif the Fair a Commander or General for the war.

 

[NENALATA]

I'm rather *astonished* by how much negativity is being channeled towards Elisif by Ulfric's supporters and sympathizers.

Makes me wonder whether they truly want to try and solve their problems or if they're just looking to punish someone.

First day of Ulfric's rule as High King:

"Let the beatings commence"

Anyone complains they say...

"The beatings will continue until moral improves..."

 

[Yimir Skallagrimson]

I'm rather adtonished how the Imperials and Thalmor are eager to throw every single stormcloak in to the same racist and beating prone bag/

Makes me wonder if they need constant reminder that there the ones on a high horse.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I tend to call them xenophobic, racism is everywhere in Tamriel. All races observe some form of racism.

Stormcloaks however, in their capital which is the seat of Stormcloak belief and ideology, you have racial segregation of one race and the banishment of another race.

 

[NENALATA]

I'm rather adtonished how the Imperials and Thalmor are eager to throw every single stormcloak in to the same racist and beating prone bag/

Makes me wonder if they need constant reminder that there the ones on a high horse.

Only High Elves belong on the High Ground my friend.

 

[Seanu Reaves]

I'm rather adtonished how the Imperials and Thalmor are eager to throw every single stormcloak in to the same racist and beating prone bag/
Makes me wonder if they need constant reminder that there the ones on a high horse.

Lets get this out of the way with OCD and Spellcheck to help. *Astonished(Missed Key it happens) and they're*

And the Thalmor are in a similar boat... And we know that everyone is racist.

 

[NENALATA]

I'm rather adtonished how the Imperials and Thalmor are eager to throw every single stormcloak in to the same racist and beating prone bag/

Makes me wonder if they need constant reminder that there the ones on a high horse.

It just seems to me that a country full of "big brothers" would be a little more compassionate, given Elisif's loss.

Instead of treating Elisif like a "little sister" down on her luck, they seem to enjoy causing her pain. It's like... it seems like Ulfric is getting some kind of pleasure out of this, what with tormenting Elisif and all.

Ulfric is like a Sadist? Perhaps? You know, similar to Capt Janeway Starship Voyager.

 

[NENALATA]

Yimir Skallagrimson said: ↑

I'm rather adtonished how the Imperials and Thalmor are eager to throw every single stormcloak in to the same racist and beating prone bag/
Makes me wonder if they need constant reminder that there the ones on a high horse.​

Lets get this out of the way with OCD and Spellcheck to help. *Astonished(Missed Key it happens) and they're*

And the Thalmor are in a similar boat... And we know that everyone is racist. ​

​

That's ok. Only High Elves make a point of routinely using Spell Check. Yet another one of our many contributions to Tamriel.​