Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Kohlar the Unkilled]

I see that many have highly detailed, rational, and well thought out reasons for choosing whatever side. My reasons are simple, selfish, and probably not rational. I joined the Empire because I love Solitude, and abhor Windhelm. I like the look of Imperial armor more so than that of the stormcloaks. Petty, I know, but these things matter to me. I will defend Whiterun, not attack it. I live there, after all. And I don't like Ulfric. Lets see the effect of his shout upon a real Nord warrior. Lets see what happens when he attempts to strike down a man.

 

[Rimfaxe96]

I see that many have highly detailed, rational, and well thought out reasons for choosing whatever side. My reasons are simple, selfish, and probably not rational. I joined the Empire because I love Solitude, and abhor Windhelm. I like the look of Imperial armor more so than that of the stormcloaks. Petty, I know, but these things matter to me. I will defend Whiterun, not attack it. I live there, after all. And I don't like Ulfric. Lets see the effect of his shout upon a real Nord warrior. Lets see what happens when he attempts to strike down a man.

It's still fine though. I didn't think of the background stuff a lot either, for me it was jsut always clear I'd most certainly never go take over Whiterun with someone like Balgruuf in charge. Best mayor in Skyrim and then thank him with a knife in his back? Impossible.

 

[DrunkenMage]

NENALATA said: ↑

WoW! Look at all the new pages since I was away. Amazing. I hate to say this however, if DrunkenMage was a Legate in Skyrim, he'd have the Empire pulled back together in no time.​

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Empire will need leadership like that displayed on this forum if it's to survive.​

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Of course... I hate to ruin the cake here, however Empire's still going to have to deal with the Dominion eventually or vice versa.​

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When TES VI comes out, I will look forward to seeing who did what when the smoke finally cleared.​

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But until that time, you... you keep on keeping on Imperials...​

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"You took the long road but we'll be waiting". ​

Dealing with the Dominion would be easy, force the Aldmeri to line their borders while the Empire builds a cheap wall, some spikes, and other things to stop the enemy from getting across. Place fire catapults along the border and set fire to Valenwood, the plant life being injured will call upon the Wild Hunt and the Altmer troops get torn to pieces by their Bosmer allies. Pick off any of the creatures that make it towards the wall with archers, mages and other siege equipment. All in the meantime enjoying a fine mug of Colovian Brandy, watching the flames, the crazy creatures and Altmer screaming/being torn apart limb from limb.

Collect their heads, mail to the Thalmor Lords. Giving the ultimatum "We have no demands, we're just gonna kill you."

Hehehe

Yeah that sounds all well and good... unfort the French once thought the same thing about the Germans... they lined up all their forces on their border with Germany and the Germans outflanked them, same as the Thalmor done in The First Great War.

And they learned their lesson the hard way. The French did spectacular in WWI, however by WWII this was a different Germany, as I can imagine the Thalmor have changed as well... They know the score.

If you expect to win with one Army, then the war will for certain be lost. You have to have allies and re-enforcements. Two things the Empire will only have if Skyrim doesn't secede. And even if it doesn't, Skyrim is still going to have internal problems for years. Most of the Dominion internal problems are over and the Dominion is united.

I'm not worried about it. In TES VI we'll prob be fighting the Dominion for freedom anyways, so like I said, I look forward to see how things turn out in TES VI.

And hey you know how the Thalmor are... "if you don't join the party we'll come get ya!"

One army, working as one, fighting as one, will always defeat several armies that fight differently. One of the many reasons how the Empire conquered Tamriel, they fought many armies, divided and different.

This isn't WW2 or WW1, need to go further back in history if you're going to compare wars to the Great War. These people use swords and metal armor.

The Empire learned from the Great War also, the Dominion's success was due to the fact their army was localized and ready, the Empire's Imperial Army was spread out across the Four provinces. Valenwood defenses seem to have been a small thing, perhaps established when Valenwood left the Empire, not exactly just due to the Great War. The Empire only had a few days to prepare for war, not nearly enough time to establish a proper defense.

The Aldmeri Dominion underestimated a weakened Empire, they're not going to make that mistake twice. Even a greatly weakened Empire can still win, the Empire's Military was already weaker than the Dominion's at the start of the Great War. But the Thalmor didn't count on Titus Mede II being a Military genius taking victory from the jaws of defeat, his decision to abandon the Imperial City to regroup was something the Thalmor wouldn't have counted on.

How he lead the assault on the Imperial City in the Battle of the Red Ring became a model for future strategists. When I met him in Skyrim, he came off as very honorable. I understand why they call the Imperial power 'Voice of the Emperor' 30 seconds with him and I agreed to kill a man, imagine a day, a week, or a year? There would be much blood before the end.

 

[NENALATA]

This isn't WW2 or WW1, need to go further back in history if you're going to compare wars to the Great War. These people use swords and metal armor.

I think you're missing the point. Point being, the French believed their Eastern defenses to be unassailable. The Germans exploited their arrogance thru flanking them in the south and France's entire defensive line quickly collapsed, preventing any possibility for counterattack and causing their entire country to fall.

That is describing tactics in support of a war time strategy. Weapons and time frame need not necessarily apply as certain tactics can be modified or used themselves with modern units as well as ancient.

Point being again, one army will not win the war for the Empire. Not when faced with such a mobile and adaptive force like the Thalmor. When considering our magic potential, the potential to get around numbers, this is very easily realized.

There are also NUMEROUS ancient examples worth considering as well, such as General Hannibal's military expedition against Rome. The man was notorious for winning many battles with one army, however, he ultimately lost the war due to Carthage refusing to supply him with re-enforcements.

Although the Empire may have a large force on the border with the Dominion, such early prewar posturing indicates a weakness in the Empire's defenses. Whereas the Thalmor seem very relaxed, candid, even helping the Empire fight it's Civil War in Skyrim, the Empire seems to be becoming more and more desperate because they're terrified of whatever the Thalmor's next move might be.

That's why those soldiers are there already...

As far as the earlier comical comment(s) about burning Valenwood down, this will not serve the Empire well as nature is sacred to the Wood Elves. All that will accomplish is enraging the local populace and ensuring hostility between them and the Empire for the time to come. It will in essence, ensure the Empire never takes back Valenwood and if so, it will be at a very high price. The Empire will have to waste resources pacifying all of Valenwood. This was tried and failed in both the Vietnam War and Korean War.

The only reason why it worked in World War II was because entire cities were leveled and Germany was fighting a war on two fronts, with one enemy (US) being the (Good Cop) vs the Soviets (Bad Cop). You starting burning down Valenwood and even if there were a way where victory might be possible for the Empire, the war itself will last at least (2)x to (3)x as long if not longer + pacification and continued occupation w/ resistance.

The Aldmeri Dominion underestimated a weakened Empire, they're not going to make that mistake twice. Even a greatly weakened Empire can still win, the Empire's Military was already weaker than the Dominion's at the start of the Great War. But the Thalmor didn't count on Titus Mede II being a Military genius taking victory from the jaws of defeat, his decision to abandon the Imperial City to regroup was something the Thalmor wouldn't have counted on.

How he lead the assault on the Imperial City in the Battle of the Red Ring became a model for future strategists. When I met him in Skyrim, he came off as very honorable. I understand why they call the Imperial power 'Voice of the Emperor' 30 seconds with him and I agreed to kill a man, imagine a day, a week, or a year? There would be much blood before the end.

Ok, I'll agree with you on this part. Makes sense.

 

[NENALATA]

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Kohlar the Unkilled said: ↑​

I see that many have highly detailed, rational, and well thought out reasons for choosing whatever side. My reasons are simple, selfish, and probably not rational. I joined the Empire because I love Solitude, and abhor Windhelm. I like the look of Imperial armor more so than that of the stormcloaks. Petty, I know, but these things matter to me. I will defend Whiterun, not attack it. I live there, after all. And I don't like Ulfric. Lets see the effect of his shout upon a real Nord warrior. Lets see what happens when he attempts to strike down a man.​

It's still fine though. I didn't think of the background stuff a lot either, for me it was jsut always clear I'd most certainly never go take over Whiterun with someone like Balgruuf in charge. Best mayor in Skyrim and then thank him with a knife in his back? Impossible. ​

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Hahaha ~ Right on. He is the reason why WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY Back when I was considering becoming a Stormcloak, I immediately changed my mind. Jarl B is AWESOME! Such a nice guy, model ruler. Hehehe... There's only three reasons I could think of for someone to wish him harm:​

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1) Criminally Insane​

2) Evil​

3) All of the above​

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Take your pick.​

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Yeah... he's... he's the reason why I still support the Empire, even as Thalmor. Well not really the Empire per say. But Whiterun. If Jarl B think the Imperials are kool plp's then I'm kool with them. Whiterun even allows the Thalmor free passage thru his hold, so as far as I'm concerned the good Jarl can do whatever he wants in his city. Also note, until the Empire moved in, the Thalmor never bothered trying to enforce the ban on Talos worship in Whiterun.​

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The need for Jarl B to request the Empire's presence in Whiterun was because of Ulfric's craziness, of course.​

 

[DrunkenMage]

The Empire does have reinforcements, most of the Legions are tied down on the Dominion's border, doesn't exactly mean all. The borders of Hammerfell aren't closed and Imperial traffic could more than likely pass through it without any drama. The Empire is still trading with them.

I'll rephrase it more correctly when saying 'One army' by that I meant one Military, that are trained the same, fight as one. The Empire has Eighteen Legions, several armies if Legions are being grouped together like they were during the Great War. They also have Legions of Battlemages, Legions of Auxiliaries.

The Dominion flanked Imperial defenses in the Great War, the Empire has no doubt learned from it and where the Dominion attacked from. So unless the Aldmeri Dominion are attacking from Hammerfell or Black Marsh, they aren't exactly flanking anyone.

The Dominion isn't taking a relaxed stance, they're gearing up for war and lining their borders apparently. Helping the Empire's Civil war? They're fueling it and are remaining hands off, they kill a few Stormcloaks but send hundreds flocking towards Ulfric's army. The Thalmor can't help the Empire officially, they're indirectly aiding the Stormcloaks and the Thalmor will defend themselves from Stormcloak attack. But Elenwen's orders are to remain hands off, they're not officially allowed to be involved. So the Thalmor do things in secret, and continue with their Inquisition which fuels the Civil War. One thing you can count on with the Thalmor, when your superior tells you something, they do it without question. Making a mistake in the Thalmor is as deadly as fighting in a war.

I would hardly call the Empire terrified of what the Thalmor will do next, since all dialogue seems to suggest they're going for war, no matter what. The Empire's appearance on the Dominion's border is a provocative move on the Empire's part, and if the Thalmor know their history, they will know the Empire doesn't bluff when it comes to Military placement. If the Thalmor have any intelligence, they will be getting their ass in gear, the Legions be coming.

 

[NENALATA]

I would hardly call the Empire terrified of what the Thalmor will do next, since all dialogue seems to suggest they're going for war, no matter what. The Empire's appearance on the Dominion's border is a provocative move on the Empire's part, and if the Thalmor know their history, they will know the Empire doesn't bluff when it comes to Military placement. If the Thalmor have any intelligence, they will be getting their ass in gear, the Legions be coming.

Fair enough. It does show deep concern though. Which I suppose is good, I mean, they're trying to "be there first" next time so the Empire is getting organized early... ok, fine.

"Hope for the best, expect the worst", am I right?

 

[DrunkenMage]

I would hardly call the Empire terrified of what the Thalmor will do next, since all dialogue seems to suggest they're going for war, no matter what. The Empire's appearance on the Dominion's border is a provocative move on the Empire's part, and if the Thalmor know their history, they will know the Empire doesn't bluff when it comes to Military placement. If the Thalmor have any intelligence, they will be getting their ass in gear, the Legions be coming.

Fair enough. It does show deep concern though. Which I suppose is good, I mean, they're trying to "be there first" next time so the Empire is getting organized early... ok, fine.

"Hope for the best, expect the worst", am I right?

People seem to forget the Empire is as fanatical as the Thalmor and the Forsworn. Entire Legions will sacrifice themselves for the Emperor, they will fight to the last man. Unless they're ordered by the Emperor to stand down, they fight to the end.

I would be fairly concerned if an entire army who will willingly sacrifice themselves in combat, to stand their ground against any odds. Suddenly appeared on my border, Thalmor rule through fear. How long until the soldiers of the Dominion fear the Legions more than their Thalmor Lords. As evident in Diplomatic Immunity, a conversation between two low ranked foot soldiers in the Thalmor, the lower ranks despise their superiors. When the Dominion's army decide they're not going to die for their Thalmor superiors, then the Thalmor will know what it is to be very afraid.

 

[NENALATA]

I would be fairly concerned if an entire army who will willingly sacrifice themselves in combat, to stand their ground against any odds. Suddenly appeared on my border, Thalmor rule through fear. How long until the soldiers of the Dominion fear the Legions more than their Thalmor Lords. As evident in Diplomatic Immunity, a conversation between two low ranked foot soldiers in the Thalmor, the lower ranks despise their superiors. When the Dominion's army decide they're not going to die for their Thalmor superiors, then the Thalmor will know what it is to be very afraid.

Thalmor rank, file and leadership appears very similar to a modern-day Corporate environment. There are advantages and disadvantages to this. For starters, yes, I imagine (and based on your example) there would most def be a lack of esprit de corps among the lower ranks. Lower meaning... anything other than Officer. Officers would have it made and wouldn't care as much about failure because in order to be an officer, you've got to have skin in the game already. Money, education, some kind of influence. So these 'Officers' wouldn't care as long as nothing is "their fault". The lower ranks, probably something similar to enlisted would be an entirely different story.

Like take for example, I've worked extremely hard and made all kinds of sacrifices for my job and instead of getting the promotion which was promised to me in the beginning, I'm about to get crushed by favoritism and spite because I'm the type of person who will be heard when people do malicious pl*ps to me. I do not take that lightly or sitting down. As opposed to certain others, who have no self-respect, they'll do anything for a little more power. Which is to say, they could care less about the job ~ Or the money ~ Or the work ~ They desire power over other people above all else.

So you see DM, you can't count on that 100%. Some Thalmor might realize that maybe their superiors aren't behind them at all. Some won't care and will glady throw their lives away so they can get a little more power. Still others will believe the later and believe that their Superiors are with them, that they care about them and that they're working for the cause.

Which is hard to say anytime you have a Corporate style engagement going on because usually the cause is about the numbers. Thalmor learn by the numbers, if the numbers are unfavorable, then nothing else matters to them than this. It is reasonable to arrive at this conclusion because Elves are all about logic and have analytical minds, which explains why they spent so much time on their plans.

This also explains why some of the Thalmor hate their Superiors... because 'the numbers' govern the fate of the Thalmor soldiers instead of what's necessarily fair and just by 'human' standards.

This of course, assumes the Thalmor do actually have a Corporate mindset, whereby all indications points to this fact.

 

[DrunkenMage]

If Elewen's predecessor could be discarded and punished like he was nothing, what makes you think anyone is safe. Elenwen and her predecessor must be fairly high up the 'corporate' chain, if they're at risk, then majority is at risk.

Thalmor rule through fear, fear of them by those under their rule, and it seems fear of each other.

Edit: Even if very few Dominion defect, the threat of the Empire remains. The Empire isn't known for their bluffs or their arrogant posturing. They're known for their acts, especially when it comes to Military. The Legion isn't renowned for their false threats, if they've been placed on the border. It can only mean they're going on the offensive, such an aggressive course of action by the Imperium means they're close to being ready for war.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

If Elewen's predecessor could be discarded and punished like he was nothing, what makes you think anyone is safe. Elenwen and her predecessor must be fairly high up the 'corporate' chain, if they're at risk, then majority is at risk.

Thalmor rule through fear, fear of them by those under their rule, and it seems fear of each other.

Edit: Even if very few Dominion defect, the threat of the Empire remains. The Empire isn't known for their bluffs or their arrogant posturing. They're known for their acts, especially when it comes to Military. The Legion isn't renowned for their false threats, if they've been placed on the border. It can only mean they're going on the offensive, such an aggressive course of action by the Imperium means they're close to being ready for war.

Which is why I feel the Empire's leaders are either lazy or incompetent, and that they are not currently worth following right now. A good leader would be the best choice, not Someone like Titus Mede who readily accepts his fate. the Empire needs leaders who will do whatever it takes to decimate the Dominion, but to do that, the Empire needs to get kicked in the groin first.

 

[DrunkenMage]

If Elewen's predecessor could be discarded and punished like he was nothing, what makes you think anyone is safe. Elenwen and her predecessor must be fairly high up the 'corporate' chain, if they're at risk, then majority is at risk.

Thalmor rule through fear, fear of them by those under their rule, and it seems fear of each other.

Edit: Even if very few Dominion defect, the threat of the Empire remains. The Empire isn't known for their bluffs or their arrogant posturing. They're known for their acts, especially when it comes to Military. The Legion isn't renowned for their false threats, if they've been placed on the border. It can only mean they're going on the offensive, such an aggressive course of action by the Imperium means they're close to being ready for war.

Which is why I feel the Empire's leaders are either lazy or incompetent, and that they are not currently worth following right now. A good leader would be the best choice, not Someone like Titus Mede who readily accepts his fate. the Empire needs leaders who will do whatever it takes to decimate the Dominion, but to do that, the Empire needs to get kicked in the groin first.

The Empire's leaders are preparing for war, I wouldn't call it lazy or incompetent. Rebuilding your army takes time, training takes time.

Titus Mede II accepts his fate? You mean in the Dark Brotherhood? The man is old, it isn't like thirty years ago where he personally led an assault and personally captured the Thalmor Lord. Uriel Septim VII accepted his fate at the hands of an assassin also, or what about Ulfric himself who surrendered without even a fight to Tullius before Helgen, accepting his fate of being executed along with his men. No one likes to mention those, because they're always going on about how great Ulfric is and that the Septim Dynasty was the best.

"Oh, you can save your sinister bravado. I'll not go to my grave whimpering like an infant." Emperor Titus Mede II

The Empire got a kicked in the groin, the Great War. Now that the balls have recovered, it's time to hit back.

Generally, the priorities of people amaze me.

Emperor Titus Mede II, and other officials in the Empire cause the very poorly enforced ban on Talos. KILL THE EMPIRE!

Jarl Ulfric Stormcloak, kills his High King and fulfills the prophecy required to unleash Alduin the World-Eater, nearly causes the destruction of all Nirn. ULFRIC IS OUR TRUE HIGH KING.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

If Elewen's predecessor could be discarded and punished like he was nothing, what makes you think anyone is safe. Elenwen and her predecessor must be fairly high up the 'corporate' chain, if they're at risk, then majority is at risk.

Thalmor rule through fear, fear of them by those under their rule, and it seems fear of each other.

Edit: Even if very few Dominion defect, the threat of the Empire remains. The Empire isn't known for their bluffs or their arrogant posturing. They're known for their acts, especially when it comes to Military. The Legion isn't renowned for their false threats, if they've been placed on the border. It can only mean they're going on the offensive, such an aggressive course of action by the Imperium means they're close to being ready for war.

Which is why I feel the Empire's leaders are either lazy or incompetent, and that they are not currently worth following right now. A good leader would be the best choice, not Someone like Titus Mede who readily accepts his fate. the Empire needs leaders who will do whatever it takes to decimate the Dominion, but to do that, the Empire needs to get kicked in the groin first.

The Empire's leaders are preparing for war, I wouldn't call it lazy or incompetent. Rebuilding your army takes time, training takes time.

Titus Mede II accepts his fate? You mean in the Dark Brotherhood? The man is old, it isn't like thirty years ago where he personally led an assault and personally captured the Thalmor Lord. Uriel Septim VII accepted his fate at the hands of an assassin also, or what about Ulfric himself who surrendered without even a fight to Tullius before Helgen, accepting his fate of being executed along with his men. No one likes to mention those, because they're always going on about how great Ulfric is and that the Septim Dynasty was the best.

"Oh, you can save your sinister bravado. I'll not go to my grave whimpering like an infant." Emperor Titus Mede II

The Empire got a kicked in the groin, the Great War. Now that the balls have recovered, it's time to hit back.

Generally, the priorities of people amaze me.

Emperor Titus Mede II, and other officials in the Empire cause the very poorly enforced ban on Talos. KILL THE EMPIRE!

Jarl Ulfric Stormcloak, kills his High King and fulfills the prophecy required to unleash Alduin the World-Eater, nearly causes the destruction of all Nirn. ULFRIC IS OUR TRUE HIGH KING.

Here is a question: How do you fight a Shadow war you do not even know is a war? That is what the Thalmor are doing, fighting a shadow war, and winning. They tricked Mede into accepting the WGC, after using their men to beat him into signing it. They kill the men and women who could be used to fight the "next great war" and stealthily get the advantage for that war. Who's preparing for war?

 

[DrunkenMage]

Which is why I feel the Empire's leaders are either lazy or incompetent, and that they are not currently worth following right now. A good leader would be the best choice, not Someone like Titus Mede who readily accepts his fate. the Empire needs leaders who will do whatever it takes to decimate the Dominion, but to do that, the Empire needs to get kicked in the groin first.

The Empire's leaders are preparing for war, I wouldn't call it lazy or incompetent. Rebuilding your army takes time, training takes time.

Titus Mede II accepts his fate? You mean in the Dark Brotherhood? The man is old, it isn't like thirty years ago where he personally led an assault and personally captured the Thalmor Lord. Uriel Septim VII accepted his fate at the hands of an assassin also, or what about Ulfric himself who surrendered without even a fight to Tullius before Helgen, accepting his fate of being executed along with his men. No one likes to mention those, because they're always going on about how great Ulfric is and that the Septim Dynasty was the best.

"Oh, you can save your sinister bravado. I'll not go to my grave whimpering like an infant." Emperor Titus Mede II

The Empire got a kicked in the groin, the Great War. Now that the balls have recovered, it's time to hit back.

Generally, the priorities of people amaze me.

Emperor Titus Mede II, and other officials in the Empire cause the very poorly enforced ban on Talos. KILL THE EMPIRE!

Jarl Ulfric Stormcloak, kills his High King and fulfills the prophecy required to unleash Alduin the World-Eater, nearly causes the destruction of all Nirn. ULFRIC IS OUR TRUE HIGH KING.

Here is a question: How do you fight a Shadow war you do not even know is a war? That is what the Thalmor are doing, fighting a shadow war, and winning. They tricked Mede into accepting the WGC, after using their men to beat him into signing it. They kill the men and women who could be used to fight the "next great war" and stealthily get the advantage for that war. Who's preparing for war?

The Legion know what the Thalmor are up to, unlike the Stormcloaks.

Tullius: "You realize this is exactly what they wanted."
Galmar: "What who wanted?"
Tullius: "The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion."

"I put in to be stationed here to keep an eye on the Thalmor, I have a feeling they're behind this unrest here in Skyrim" - Legate Fasendil

"Look around the room and you'll see what we're up against." - General Tullius, Diplomatic Immunity

The Empire isn't as blind as you might think.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

The Empire's leaders are preparing for war, I wouldn't call it lazy or incompetent. Rebuilding your army takes time, training takes time.

Titus Mede II accepts his fate? You mean in the Dark Brotherhood? The man is old, it isn't like thirty years ago where he personally led an assault and personally captured the Thalmor Lord. Uriel Septim VII accepted his fate at the hands of an assassin also, or what about Ulfric himself who surrendered without even a fight to Tullius before Helgen, accepting his fate of being executed along with his men. No one likes to mention those, because they're always going on about how great Ulfric is and that the Septim Dynasty was the best.

"Oh, you can save your sinister bravado. I'll not go to my grave whimpering like an infant." Emperor Titus Mede II

The Empire got a kicked in the groin, the Great War. Now that the balls have recovered, it's time to hit back.

Generally, the priorities of people amaze me.

Emperor Titus Mede II, and other officials in the Empire cause the very poorly enforced ban on Talos. KILL THE EMPIRE!

Jarl Ulfric Stormcloak, kills his High King and fulfills the prophecy required to unleash Alduin the World-Eater, nearly causes the destruction of all Nirn. ULFRIC IS OUR TRUE HIGH KING.

Here is a question: How do you fight a Shadow war you do not even know is a war? That is what the Thalmor are doing, fighting a shadow war, and winning. They tricked Mede into accepting the WGC, after using their men to beat him into signing it. They kill the men and women who could be used to fight the "next great war" and stealthily get the advantage for that war. Who's preparing for war?

The Legion know what the Thalmor are up to, unlike the Stormcloaks.

Tullius: "You realize this is exactly what they wanted."
Galmar: "What who wanted?"
Tullius: "The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion."

"I put in to be stationed here to keep an eye on the Thalmor, I have a feeling they're behind this unrest here in Skyrim" - Legate Fasendil

"Look around the room and you'll see what we're up against." - General Tullius, Diplomatic Immunity

The Empire isn't as blind as you might think.

but what are they doing to prevent it? Nothing, they let the Thalmor do as they please because they got tricked into letting happen. They got lazy and are probably going to pay the price soon.

To beat the Thalmor, you cannot just let them waltz around arresting/executing the people you need to fight them later.

 

[DrunkenMage]

but what are they doing to prevent it? Nothing, they let the Thalmor do as they please because they got tricked into letting happen. They got lazy and are probably going to pay the price soon.

To beat the Thalmor, you cannot just let them waltz around arresting/executing the people you need to fight them later.

The Thalmor couldn't just waltz around doing what they wanted, they're using the Civil war to do it. Lack of Imperial control gives the Thalmor free reigns, the Empire can't fight a Civil War while watching the Thalmor.

Head to Markarth, speak with the head of the Justiciar's (The Talos hunters) he asks you to break into someone's house because the Empire supporting Jarl won't call for his arrest.

Look at the Justiciar execution orders when they send them after you. 'If caught by local authorities, we are unable to offer you any assistance.' Imperial soldiers will even attack the Thalmor if they try to kill you.

The Thalmor make use of Nord assets and Khajiit assassins. The Thalmor aren't the only group known to wage secret wars, the Empire does it also. Tullius himself is using Agents in Skyrim too. More than likely the Empire is doing the same thing to the Thalmor, both sides attacking from the shadows. The Empire doesn't just fight with the Legions, they make use of all forms of warfare

If you believe the Empire are just blind and sitting around playing with their thumbs, you need to read more about what the Empire exactly gets up to on the shadow side of things.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

but what are they doing to prevent it? Nothing, they let the Thalmor do as they please because they got tricked into letting happen. They got lazy and are probably going to pay the price soon.

To beat the Thalmor, you cannot just let them waltz around arresting/executing the people you need to fight them later.

The Thalmor couldn't just waltz around doing what they wanted, they're using the Civil war to do it. Lack of Imperial control gives the Thalmor free reigns, the Empire can't fight a Civil War while watching the Thalmor.

Head to Markarth, speak with the head of the Justiciar's (The Talos hunters) he asks you to break into someone's house because the Empire supporting Jarl won't call for his arrest.

Look at the Justiciar execution orders when they send them after you. 'If caught by local authorities, we are unable to offer you any assistance.' Imperial soldiers will even attack the Thalmor if they try to kill you.

The Thalmor make use of Nord assets and Khajiit assassins. The Thalmor aren't the only group known to wage secret wars, the Empire does it also. Tullius himself is using Agents in Skyrim too. More than likely the Empire is doing the same thing to the Thalmor, both sides attacking from the shadows. The Empire doesn't just fight with the Legions, they make use of all forms of warfare

If you believe the Empire are just blind and sitting around playing with their thumbs, you need to read more about what the Empire exactly gets up to on the shadow side of things.

yet, what is to stop the Thalmor from assassinating the Elder Council? What is to prevent them from winning the next great war without fighting it?

I never said blind? By "not knowing it is a shadow war" I meant that the Empire does not realize the true threat of the Thalmor comes from them having agents in the Empire, not just in terms of the legal parts. Them being in Skyrim because of the Civil War is part of that. To get the Empire to legally let them use the WGC to eliminate threats to the Dominions war against the Empire. They are either lazy or incompetent for not fighting the thalmor on the Thalmor's terms and ignoring Ulfric. The Empire and the Thalmor arwe the reason he wants to break away from the Empire, not for power's sake.

IF the Nords truly thought Ulfric was a murderer and traitor to the people of Skyrim, they would not be joining him to fight for THEIR freedom. I would not put it past the Thalmor to have engineered the MArkarth incident or the assassination plot of the Emperor either.

I personally despise the Civil War and even in an RP where my character was sympathetic to the Stormcloaks would ignore it simply because of how stupid both sides are. I mean, Fighting over who rules Skyrim when you should be forcing the Thalmor out of Skyrim, legally or not? how dumb do you have to be?

 

[DrunkenMage]

but what are they doing to prevent it? Nothing, they let the Thalmor do as they please because they got tricked into letting happen. They got lazy and are probably going to pay the price soon.

To beat the Thalmor, you cannot just let them waltz around arresting/executing the people you need to fight them later.

The Thalmor couldn't just waltz around doing what they wanted, they're using the Civil war to do it. Lack of Imperial control gives the Thalmor free reigns, the Empire can't fight a Civil War while watching the Thalmor.

Head to Markarth, speak with the head of the Justiciar's (The Talos hunters) he asks you to break into someone's house because the Empire supporting Jarl won't call for his arrest.

Look at the Justiciar execution orders when they send them after you. 'If caught by local authorities, we are unable to offer you any assistance.' Imperial soldiers will even attack the Thalmor if they try to kill you.

The Thalmor make use of Nord assets and Khajiit assassins. The Thalmor aren't the only group known to wage secret wars, the Empire does it also. Tullius himself is using Agents in Skyrim too. More than likely the Empire is doing the same thing to the Thalmor, both sides attacking from the shadows. The Empire doesn't just fight with the Legions, they make use of all forms of warfare

If you believe the Empire are just blind and sitting around playing with their thumbs, you need to read more about what the Empire exactly gets up to on the shadow side of things.

yet, what is to stop the Thalmor from assassinating the Elder Council? What is to prevent them from winning the next great war without fighting it?

I never said blind? By "not knowing it is a shadow war" I meant that the Empire does not realize the true threat of the Thalmor comes from them having agents in the Empire, not just in terms of the legal parts. Them being in Skyrim because of the Civil War is part of that. To get the Empire to legally let them use the WGC to eliminate threats to the Dominions war against the Empire. They are either lazy or incompetent for not fighting the thalmor on the Thalmor's terms and ignoring Ulfric. The Empire and the Thalmor arwe the reason he wants to break away from the Empire, not for power's sake.

IF the Nords truly thought Ulfric was a murderer and traitor to the people of Skyrim, they would not be joining him to fight for THEIR freedom.

What is stopping the Thalmor assassinating the Elder Council? Oh, about thousands of soldiers.

Empire should be ignoring Ulfric? Ignore the fact that Ulfric has raised an army and is attacking the Western Holds? Your solution is to simply ignore Ulfric and his rebellion... really?

The Empire is aware the threat the Thalmor pose, far more than the Stormcloaks. Many in the Legion mention the threat the Thalmor pose. The Thalmor couldn't do what they wanted pre-Stormcloak rebellion. They couldn't arrest anyone they wanted, they couldn't drag people out in the middle of the night.

Thalmor had to have complete evidence, hell it took them seven days of someone shouting about Talos in Markarth (Where the head of the Justiciars is based) to arrest him. They couldn't touch those who worshiped in secret, couldn't touch anyone they wanted.

Nords are joining Ulfric's rebellion for many reasons, one is "Cause I'm a true Nord, simply as is" the other is about his/her cousin being snatched in the middle of the night by the Thalmor (Who can only do that because of Ulfric, because he gave the Thalmor the excuse they needed and wanted). But not all Nords are joining Ulfric, many are joining the Imperial Legion also. Many do call Ulfric murderer and traitor, they join the Empire.

Why do you think the Thalmor call Ulfric Stormcloak their asset, because he is doing what they want, he is allowing them to cause as much grief to the Empire as possible. The only Thalmor puppet is Ulfric.

Ulfric wants the throne for himself, don't give me the "But it isn't for power, honest." Ulfric killed Torygg who actually liked and respected Ulfric and would have probably been willing to most likely go independent had Ulfric asked him. "With us or against us" Yeah, true words of freedom.

Since when is racial segregation and slavery the pillars of freedom?

"We will do whatever I decide is in the best interests of Skyrim. Are we clear?" - Ulfric Stormcloak. Completely the sign of a non-oppressive government...

Seems to me Skyrim is heading for a proper dictatorship. Ulfric has his armies in the cities and Galmar keeping the Jarls in line, making sure they follow orders.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

The Thalmor couldn't just waltz around doing what they wanted, they're using the Civil war to do it. Lack of Imperial control gives the Thalmor free reigns, the Empire can't fight a Civil War while watching the Thalmor.

Head to Markarth, speak with the head of the Justiciar's (The Talos hunters) he asks you to break into someone's house because the Empire supporting Jarl won't call for his arrest.

Look at the Justiciar execution orders when they send them after you. 'If caught by local authorities, we are unable to offer you any assistance.' Imperial soldiers will even attack the Thalmor if they try to kill you.

The Thalmor make use of Nord assets and Khajiit assassins. The Thalmor aren't the only group known to wage secret wars, the Empire does it also. Tullius himself is using Agents in Skyrim too. More than likely the Empire is doing the same thing to the Thalmor, both sides attacking from the shadows. The Empire doesn't just fight with the Legions, they make use of all forms of warfare

If you believe the Empire are just blind and sitting around playing with their thumbs, you need to read more about what the Empire exactly gets up to on the shadow side of things.

yet, what is to stop the Thalmor from assassinating the Elder Council? What is to prevent them from winning the next great war without fighting it?

I never said blind? By "not knowing it is a shadow war" I meant that the Empire does not realize the true threat of the Thalmor comes from them having agents in the Empire, not just in terms of the legal parts. Them being in Skyrim because of the Civil War is part of that. To get the Empire to legally let them use the WGC to eliminate threats to the Dominions war against the Empire. They are either lazy or incompetent for not fighting the thalmor on the Thalmor's terms and ignoring Ulfric. The Empire and the Thalmor arwe the reason he wants to break away from the Empire, not for power's sake.

IF the Nords truly thought Ulfric was a murderer and traitor to the people of Skyrim, they would not be joining him to fight for THEIR freedom.

What is stopping the Thalmor assassinating the Elder Council? Oh, about thousands of soldiers.

Empire should be ignoring Ulfric? Ignore the fact that Ulfric has raised an army and is attacking the Western Holds? Your solution is to simply ignore Ulfric and his rebellion... really?

The Empire is aware the threat the Thalmor pose, far more than the Stormcloaks. Many in the Legion mention the threat the Thalmor pose. The Thalmor couldn't do what they wanted pre-Stormcloak rebellion. They couldn't arrest anyone they wanted, they couldn't drag people out in the middle of the night.

Thalmor had to have complete evidence, hell it took them seven days of someone shouting about Talos in Markarth (Where the head of the Justiciars is based) to arrest him. They couldn't touch those who worshiped in secret, couldn't touch anyone they wanted.

Nords are joining Ulfric's rebellion for many reasons, one is "Cause I'm a true Nord, simply as is" the other is about his/her cousin being snatched in the middle of the night by the Thalmor (Who can only do that because of Ulfric, because he gave the Thalmor the excuse they needed and wanted). But not all Nords are joining Ulfric, many are joining the Imperial Legion also. Many do call Ulfric murderer and traitor, they join the Empire.

Why do you think the Thalmor call Ulfric Stormcloak their asset, because he is doing what they want, he is allowing them to cause as much grief to the Empire as possible. The only Thalmor puppet is Ulfric.

Ulfric wants the throne for himself, don't give me the "But it isn't for power, honest." Ulfric killed Torygg who actually liked and respected Ulfric and would have probably been willing to most likely go independent had Ulfric asked him. "With us or against us" Yeah, true words of freedom.

Since when is racial segregation and slavery the pillars of freedom?

"We will do whatever I decide is in the best interests of Skyrim. Are we clear?" - Ulfric Stormcloak. Completely the sign of a non-oppressive government...

Seems to me Skyrim is heading for a proper dictatorship. Ulfric has his armies in the cities and Galmar keeping the Jarls in line, making sure they follow orders.

1) The Civil War is the Thalmor's Fault, along with the Empire's Fault for being tools in it.

2) Nord believe in Honor. I only see two people on the Stormcloak side who are openly racist. Go to windhelm and there are TWO Altmer merchants. Most people just to not care enough about freedom of Skyrim to sign on, because they are not personally affected. Only an imperial Zealot would call the stormcloak cause "slavery and racism" without looking at facts.

3) You talk to Stentor, the court wizard in solitude? She even tells you why he would not go against the Empire. The Empire are just as much puppets in the Civil War as Ulfric is. Mede signs the WGC, which makes Ulfric go 'enough is enough' and kill Torygg to stop the indecision of the Jarls, and prove that Skyrim does not need the Empire's laws. How is the Empire not a puppet in the Thalmor's game of chess?

4) They are new to the position, and Ulfric seems to have more experience then them. Why wouldn't Ulfric want to see to it that they do "what is best for skyrim."

I do not necessarily agree with the Stormcloaks, but see their side much more clearly than you seem to.

"Because theDominion is a sleeping beast that Skyrim cannot slay alone. Because many Nords are part of the Imperial army even now. Because the food and resources we get from the Empire are important to our people. Because even if we can't openly worship him, Talos the god was once Tiber Septim the man, and this is his Empire. And Torygg wasn't ready to let it fall apart."

Since you do not seem to keen on doing any kind of talking to people in Skyrim.

 

[DrunkenMage]

1) The Civil War is the Thalmor's Fault, along with the Empire's Fault for being tools in it.

Empire didn't start the Civil War, Ulfric did.

2) Nord believe in Honor. I only see two people on the Stormcloak side who are openly racist. Go to windhelm and there are TWO Altmer merchants. Most people just to not care enough about freedom of Skyrim to sign on, because they are not personally affected. Only an imperial Zealot would call the stormcloak cause "slavery and racism" without looking at facts.

Many people are racist, it is everywhere in Tamriel. Two Altmer merchants? Your point being, racial segregation is of the Dunmer.

I didn't call the Stormcloak cause racism and slavery. I said Racial segregation and slavery, is what the Stormcloaks bring. When people defend racial segregation and slavery, they are only digging the hole deeper. I for one will not defend the actions of slavery and racial segregation. If it makes me a zealot, what would that make many Stormcloaks supporters?

3) They are new to the position, and Ulfric seems to have more experience then them. Why wouldn't Ulfric want to see to it that they do "what is best for skyrim."

I do not necessarily agree with the Stormcloaks, but see their side much more clearly than you seem to.

New to the position? Ulfric has more experience than them? Many Jarls have been there a hell of a lot longer than Ulfric has. So tell me again when saying "We do whatever I want" is good for the people of Skyrim.

I do see the Stormcloak side clearly, while I do agree they have a very good cause. I just don't agree with the methods, the timing or the leaders running it. You misunderstand me if you believe I don't see both sides of the coin, there are many things I dislike about the Empire. Could write a page about it. But I can never, in my right mind. Support what the Stormcloaks cause brings. Their noble goal comes at a price. I can understand supporting Stormcloaks as a RP and to see both sides of the Civil War.

There are many times in this thread, I question how people can actually sit there and support what Stormcloaks bring. I've seen many posts in this thread where people actually try to justify racial segregation and slavery. "Ulfric doesn't trust them" "It's for their own protection" "They should just leave if they don't like it" "They're lucky they can live there" "They deserve it"

I agree that Skyrim can be independent, but not under Ulfric. Had Skyrim tried peacefully and then with violence, without slavery and racial segregation. I would be in this thread debating against Empire supporters.