Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?
- Thread starter EvilCrazyCows
- Start date
Docta Corvina
Well-Known Member
Couldn't let you get bashed so much Raijin! My alerts stopped alerting me
Well, you're sweethearted for caring.
Me, I just tear 'em all limb from limb. I'm a Dangerous Nan McGrew in this thread.
...I love Helen Kane. 
Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
Well, you're sweethearted for caring.
Me, I just tear 'em all limb from limb. I'm a Dangerous Nan McGrew in this thread.
That is just... cute
Docta Corvina
Well-Known Member
Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
Ain't she? Helen Kane is adorable.
For some reason I could picture you singing that song... it makes it cute I say
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
The glory days of the Septims is greatly over used. They had some of the worst Emperors known to the age of Man, political infighting, wars between provinces under their control, even Civil wars between the Septims themselves. Every Emperor is different in what they do, Imperial authority will decline on some Emperors or it will grow. The Mede's actually took a shattered Empire and reforged it into glory, they have faced legions of undead and a floating city.
Titus Mede II was Emperor for about three years before the Great War broke out, he was advised by his Generals that the Imperial army was weakened as only three of the four provinces of the Empire were doing well, Hammerfell was having infighting. The fact he didn't accept is 'However, there is a great difference between agreeing to such terms under the mere threat of war, and agreeing to them at the end of a long and destructive war. No part of the Empire would have accepted these terms in 4E 171, dictated by the Thalmor at swords-point. Titus II would have faced civil war.' - The Great War
Ulfric was captured sometime before the fall of the Imperial city, he was allowed to escape by the Thalmor. The fact he was in Skyrim with a Militia before any of the Legions had returned home is a mystery to me, did he abandon his post? The Emperor doesn't dictate the terms of the Treaty nor can the Emperor sign it by himself, not without the Elder Council and more than likely the agreement of Torygg's father who was current High King and the Kings and Queens of High Rock. Hammerfell didn't agree which is why they are currently independent and have their own Treaty with the Thalmor known as the Second Treaty of Stros M'kai. Should we also dislike Hammerfell since they didn't invade the Summerset isles?
Considering it was Ulfric who caused the Thalmor to start dragging people off in the night, that the Talos ban was more enforced. Everyone still had their shrine to Talos they did not care, it was only when Ulfric starting screaming about it did the Thalmor crack down and the dragging people off happened to those secretly worshiping. He created the reason many people are joining the Stormcloaks, every Nord killed for worshiping Talos is on Ulfric's head. Ulfric has a way with words, that really do not mask his actions. The way many Stormcloaks seem to view him, you'd think he was the second coming of Talos himself.
Ulfric and any traitor Legionnaires are nothing more than Oath breakers. They swore and oath to the Emperor and the Officers of the Empire. It is ironic, it means Ulfric swore and oath of obedience to men like Tullius.
Many would call the Empire the Thalmor puppets, amusing since it is the Empire preparing for war against the Thalmor and it is the Empire keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim, if you think a few Thalmor agents are bad, imagine thousands of Aldmeri Dominion soldiers, there would be no taking prisoners. Many really go way out of proportion when talking about what the Thalmor are allowed to do. They can't just arrest any citizen they like, they need proof of Talos worship or if they are searching for any remaining Blades. Though the Thalmor have been arresting more people, more often since Ulfric started going on about open Talos worship
"And so, the open worship of Talos has been outlawed in Skyrim, and actively enforced in those cities where the Thalmor have a tangible presence. Cities, I might add, in which the Empire has the most secure foothold. It was in one of these cities - Markarth, to be exact - where I made the conscious decision to defy the ban on Talos worship. And my defiance came in the form of - what else? - a song. For what bard who has spent time writing and rehearsing an original work can possible refrain from performing it? So perform it I did. Not once, not twice, but seven times. Once a day, for an entire week." - Flight from the Thalmor
Considering that man was able to go on about Talos for an entire week, just shows how much the Thalmor have stepped up their Talos worship hunting with the rise of the great Ulfric Stormcloak.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Well apparently Torygg respected Ulfric greatly and may have went for independence had Ulfric simply asked him, that doesn't scream fighting for independence when killing someone who you could of used to go for independence, there might not of been a huge civil war, if he had spoken with the High King about it and the High King rejected it, then yeah okay killing him may be the way, sadly he only killed Torygg as a message to the other Jarls. You can actually go for those things peacefully it seems, "Forsworn ruled their lands fairly, and were making overtures to be recognized by the Empire as a legitimate kingdom."
Well actually the thing about Talos, is not every Nord worships him, some do. It doesn't make him their preferred God, it makes him a well known God. I'm sure many of the Nords would worship; Shor God of the Underworld, Tsun Nordic God of Trials against Adversity, Stuhn God of Ransom Shield-thane to Shor, Kyne widow of Shor, a favored goddess of warriors, Mara the handmaiden to Kyne. Maybe even Sai God of Luck.
The Empire is doing many things to save their citizens, perhaps the fact the Imperial army is tied down on the Thalmor borders? Preparing for war and keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim. Only the strong should rule? That does sound great... in theory. The fact Ulfric has brought back an old tradition means that you can challenge the High King, challenge Jarls for right of their title. How many hands shall Jarlship and even High King will change hands? Hell a Bandit chief could probably challenge a Jarl and become the rightful ruler, until they get killed and so on. Be the war of succession all over again.
Good speeches don't make it better, the fact Ulfric is a great public speaker is what makes him more dangerous. He knows what to say to get people to follow him, how to please a crowd. He comes across to me as someone who has practiced these speeches to the extent he has become lost in the display he gives off to the crowd. He truly believes he does no wrong, he doesn't see what he is doing. He has become so fixed in his cause that his actions speak of someone who would burn the world around him, because he believes he is good and right.
All of the greatest empires in the world faced those things, or something similar, but were still great. There is no denying the Empire was not up to its full power, especially not with all but two blades slain. The fact remains that all those lives were lost in what was effectively little more than a PR stunt. Ulfric was young and headstrong, probably immature at that time. His actions were very spontaneous. I find his actions no surprise. He was led to believe he BETRAYED HIS EMPIRE. That equates to nothing to lose. And we are not tAlking about Hammerfell. It is irrelevant as it is no longer part of the Empire, and has its own free will. As for Ulfric, his actions were the actions of a youth with fire in his heart. He has matured. Now his actions are measured risks, he is playing a deadly game.
The point is that the Empire accomplished almost nothing in the Great War except for signing the treaty anyways but without facing civil wars. The war was more of a PR stunt than anything. As for Ulfric being a child?! Wtf mate?! He is a grown man who has the intellectual ability to bind hundreds to his cause. Not to mention that he has come a long way since the Great War. He has the capacity to learn from his mistakes, he is no fool. Maybe back in the Great War he would have fought to the last man, but not now. He only maintains such things because his soldiers have the same mind set.
He is my comrade! My brother!Well, you're sweethearted for caring.
Me, I just tear 'em all limb from limb. I'm a Dangerous Nan McGrew in this thread.
There is no way of knowing what was going through the young Torygg's mind. I highly doubt him and Ulfric were bros, and how would Ulfric know he admired him, and even if he did, he had no reason to believe he would agree. Talos is the creator of the Empire and greatest of the divines. YES he is the primary god. You said it yourself his ban pre war would have been a PR nightmare.The Empire is obligated to defend against the Dominion to save themselves. I see no evidence of selflessness in the leader's actions. Of course Ulfric's skills with speeches are dangerous. But that doesn't make them bad.
As for the war of succession, or whatever it's called, the Nords already know it won't work. Ulfric does too. For now, that is just a calculated risk, as he challenged torygg in order to set the ball rolling.
Anouck
Queen of Procrastination
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
He is very good at the deadly game, the Ulfric when addressing men and the Ulfric behind closed doors.
Ulfric: "And it is for these reasons that I cannot accept the mantle of "High King." Not until the Moot declares that title should adorn my shoulders will I accept it."
Ulfric: "How'd I do?"
Galmar: "Eh, not so bad. Nice touch about the High King."
Ulfric: "Thank you, I thought so, too."
Galmar: "It's a foregone conclusion, you know."
Ulfric: "Oh, I know."
Ulfric: "No, not yet. We'll wait for the Moot to name me High King. It'll be better for all that way. But, that doesn't mean I won't start acting like it.
Galmar: "If he's not with us, he's against us."
Ulfric: "He knows that. They all know that."
Galmar: "I still say you should take them all out like you did Deadking Torygg."
Ulfric: "Torygg was merely a message to the other Jarls. Whoever we replace them with will need the support of our armies."
Galmar: "The Jarls are upset. They don't all support you."
Ulfric: "Damn the Jarls."
You can see there are indeed different sides of Ulfric. At least with General Tullius you know where he stands.
Anouck
Queen of Procrastination
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
That isn't actually as bad as it sounds. There is a Talos Cult that many Legionnaires are apart of
The Talos Cult is a group of worshipers of the great Tiber Septim, founder of the Empire. In order to join, new recruits must swear the following oath: "That we shall die to put a strong man back on the throne of Tamriel." They have many followers in the Legions, conspiring to assassinate whoever the current emperor may be and replace him, so to prevent the Empire's decline.
I hope you don't mind me asking, but at what part of the game does Ulfric say that bit about rehearsals? I never payed too much attention to his speeches. If you can, I would like a link to a video or reliable website to verify it.
DrunkenMage
Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Which bit about rehearsals? Not sure what quote of his you mean.
The part about "how was that?" Etc etc...
