Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[The Laoch]

I find it hard to throw support to either side. If you would ask me about what side i like more a few weeks ago i would say die hard Stormcloak. Bretons are my favorite race ,so i think I like the Legion when i play bretons and Stormcloaks when i play Nords.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

I find it hard to throw support to either side. If you would ask me about what side i like more a few weeks ago i would say die hard Stormcloak. Bretons are my favorite race ,so i think I like the Legion when i play bretons and Stormcloaks when i play Nords.

That is understandable! Both sides are equally exalted and faulted.

 

[DrunkenMage]

It was not directed toward his race, but his loyalties. At any rate, it is now irrelevant as that particular discussion was closed for me, and me and drunk are on mead/ale break! Cheers!

His loyalties seem to have been his own. Considering he did battle against Nords, I wouldn't call that his loyalties were to them. Nordic loyalty to him was extreme after he defeated them, they'd have followed him into the depths of Oblivion.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

His loyalties seem to have been his own. Considering he did battle against Nords, I wouldn't call that his loyalties were to them. Nordic loyalty to him was extreme after he defeated them, they'd have followed him into the depths of Oblivion.

And I am sure he would have returned such a favor.

 

[DrunkenMage]

And I am sure he would have returned such a favor.

I don't know, there are many conflicting accounts about the great Talos. Not all are great, some which show him to be a cold person. He was a conqueror and history is written by the victor.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

I don't know, there are many conflicting accounts about the great Talos. Not all are great, some which show him to be a cold person. He was a conqueror and history is written by the victor.

True, but if he would not return the favor, he is unworthy or worship and the Dominion has the right of it.

 

[DrunkenMage]

True, but if he would not return the favor, he is unworthy or worship and the Dominion has the right of it.

To be honest I always thought he was a little too good. I mean the man conquered the lands, forcing everyone to swear fealty to him, with Legions that are loyal only to him, Nords, Imperials etc.

Then when he dies he is made a God and the greatest of all the Divines.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

To be honest I always thought he was a little too good. I mean the man conquered the lands, forcing everyone to swear fealty to him, with Legions that are loyal only to him, Nords, Imperials etc.

Then when he dies he is made a God and the greatest of all the Divines.

I know what you mean...

 

[DrunkenMage]

I know what you mean...

I used to always think it was some kind of propaganda, started by his blood line to make sure the people obey them to some kind of fanatical point. Kind of like to go against the will of the Emperor is to go against the God Talos, whose blood flows through their veins.

 

[Raijin]

Ulfric makes very good and convincing quotes. Sometimes I wonder if he is just merely practicing a speech when you listen to him in the palace of the kings.

Not sure if this means anything but according to UESP Ulfric Primary Skills are: Heavy Armor, One-handed, Archery and Block. It does not list Speechcraft. This is the reason why I do not believe that Ulfric is just saying that out of the blue. If he was a former bard from the bards college at Solitude then I would be highly suspicious on his activities. If my memory serves me correct Gisli (Erikur sister) had not so nice things to say about the college as they lie out of their teeth. the Dean of the college even lied to the Jarl just so they can have their burning of King Olaf Festival.

 

[Raijin]

Tullius is a General, he isn't there to run the Country forever. Once all is settled the Legion will go back to their normal duties and Tullius will go back to Cyrodiil. I like him even more for the fact he is not a politician. He was sent to Skyrim by request of the Emperor himself, to handle the situation.

Tullius isn't a member of politics, he generally doesn't handle politics, especially Nordic politics which is very confusing, as each hold is independent. The fact he must rely on others for politics in another province shows he is open minded. It doesn't make him a disturbing leader, it makes him a great one that he is willing to let another who knows the country handle things for the short term, until the Moot meets.

I always wonder why General Tullius (If you side with the Stormcloaks) would be buried inside Solitudes catacombs in Skyrim, and not carted back to Cyrodill? I hope someone could explain that 1 to me as I'm confused.

Ulfric Stormcloak earned so many points when I witnessed this portion of the catacombs. General Tullius was the primary enemy, and almost executed Ulfric, and yet he gets a proper burial. Whats so romantic about it is that hes right next to his Legate, Rikke.

On the other hand General Tullius had this to say:

Rikke: "Attention! General Tullius has an announcement!"
Tullius: "The rebellion is over. Ulfric Stormcloak is dead. His head will be sent to Cyrodiil where it will adorn a spike on the walls of the Imperial City. Let this day be a final warning to all who would still call themselves Stormcloaks. We are turning the city over to Brunwulf Free-Winter, an honorable and faithful man. Many of you will be staying in Windhelm to aid the Jarl in restoring order and stamping out any embers of rebellion that may still smolder here. In appreciation for your exemplary service, I am doubling your pay and compensation to the widows of your fallen comrades. I am proud of all of you. All hail the Emperor. All hail his Legionnaires! I hate giving speeches."

 

[Anouck]

I agree with Ulfric on many points but I think he's egocentric and only thinks about himself.

The Imperials are not happy about the Aldmeri Dominion either but they simply had to surrender. They were not strong enough to conquer the Thalmor so they made the decision to save the lifes of the soldiers that survived. I'm sure they will kick Thalmor asses after they build up their army again...

 

[Anouck]

The things Ulfric says teach us that he would never give up and go one for ever. Sounds honorable but think about it: If there would be a war he would let his soldiers fight until the last one of them dies - even if he knows he should surrender. Many fathers would die. >>> and no empire to help them...

 

[Raijin]

I agree with Ulfric on many points but I think he's egocentric and only thinks about himself.

The Imperials are not happy about the Aldmeri Dominion either but they simply had to surrender. They were not strong enough to conquer the Thalmor so they made the decision to save the lifes of the soldiers that survived. I'm sure they will kick Thalmor asses after they build up their army again...

I disagree. While it may appear Ulfric is doing all of this just to earn himself the mantle of High king hes also doing this to free Skyrim from imperial shackles. Hes fighting for Skyrims independence so his people can once again openly worship their preferred god, Talos, without fear of prosecution by getting arrested by the Thalmor (Such authority given by the Empire mind you), and being tossed into their prisons. The Empire isn't doing a damn thing to save their citizens from the hands of the Thalmor, and Ulfric knows first hand what the Thalmor are capable of doing because he was among those who were tortured by these elves. Our culture is so much different than the culture of planet Nirin, and that is for damn sure. Only the strong should rule, and that's exactly why The Aldmeri Dominion wants to be the rightful rulers, and their doing a successful job demonstrating their domination over the Empire. If you carefully listen his emotional "Why I fight" speech:

Ulfric: "I fight for the men I've held in my arms, dying on foreign soil. I fight for their wives and children, who's [sic] names I heard whispered in their last breaths. I fight for we few who did come home, only to find our country full of strangers wearing familiar faces. I fight for my people impoverished to pay the debts of an Empire too weak to rule them, yet brands them criminals for wanting to rule themselves! I fight so that all the fighting I've already done hasn't been for nothing. I fight... because I must."

I'm going to repeat what I said on Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one? | Page 406 | Skyrim Forums

When Titus Mede II ascended the throne in 4E 168, he inherited a weakened empire. The glory days of the Septims were a distant memory.

On the 30th of Frostfall, 4E 171, the Aldmeri Dominion sent an ambassador to the Imperial City with a gift in a covered cart and an ultimatum for the new Emperor. The long list of demands included staggering tributes, disbandment of the Blades, outlawing the worship of Talos, and ceding large sections of Hammerfell to the Dominion. Despite the warnings of his generals of the Empire's military weakness, Emperor Titus Mede II rejected the ultimatum. The Thalmor ambassador upended the cart, spilling over a hundred heads on the floor: every Blades agent in Summerset and Valenwood. And so began the Great War which would consume the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion for the next five years. - Skyrim:The Great War - UESPWiki

If Titus Mede II inherited a weaken Empire why didn't he accepted the terms first time? Why did he rejected them thus causing the Great war? Let the Nords fight and die with honor. Let them reach the gates of Sovngarde. If you (I was speaking with DrunkenMage) want to preach about how the Empire is considerate of others lets talk about how they could've prevented a war from ever happening in the first time.

 

[Saramoth]

Stormcloaks, I say that we team up with the Redguard and take the fight to the dominion!

 

[The Laoch]

Stormcloaks, I say that we team up with the Redguard and take the fight to the dominion!

I'd ask the empire to join too. You don't want the empire to try taking over Skyrim and Hammerfell while both provinces are fighting.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

I agree with Ulfric on many points but I think he's egocentric and only thinks about himself.

The Imperials are not happy about the Aldmeri Dominion either but they simply had to surrender. They were not strong enough to conquer the Thalmor so they made the decision to save the lifes of the soldiers that survived. I'm sure they will kick Thalmor asses after they build up their army again...

They fought a war and lost countless lives in the process only for it to have the same result as they would have had they never fought to begin with. I do not see that as much of a diplomatic or warlike accomplishment.

The things Ulfric says teach us that he would never give up and go one for ever. Sounds honorable but think about it: If there would be a war he would let his soldiers fight until the last one of them dies - even if he knows he should surrender. Many fathers would die. >>> and no empire to help them...

Ulfric is no fool.He knows his limits.

Stormcloaks, I say that we team up with the Redguard and take the fight to the dominion!

Plausible, but unlikely. Unless Skyrim had something to offer them, like those two cities they conquered. Even then it is iffy.

I'd ask the empire to join too. You don't want the empire to try taking over Skyrim and Hammerfell while both provinces are fighting.

The Empire could save so many lives and so much time if they just accepted Skyrims independence and opened diplomatic relations with them.

Ulfric may come off as an ego maniac, but he does what he has to in order to maintain his command, as I'm sure Tiber/Talos did in his time.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

Couldn't let you get bashed so much Raijin! My alerts stopped alerting me

 

[Anouck]

*sorry if my English is not correct*

When the Legion was outnumbered by the Thalmor they surrendered. They had no choice. They made the decision to save the men who survived and to send them back to their families. Surrendering doesn't mean they agree with the Thalmor - they just need time to rebuild their strength so they can kick some Thalmor asses.

Ulfric is not the true high king of Skyrim because he's like a child that doesn't understand he can't get everything he wants. Sometimes it takes a long time to achieve your goals. If it was up to him he would fight until there was no man left, even when it was obvious the Aldmeri Dominion would win the war. He would make unnecessary sacrifices.

A good leader is not a leader who won every battle, it is a leader who also failed and learned. For failing is the best lesson in life. It can make a man wise.

The Legion failed and learned. Ulfric failed and refused to acknowledge. Therefor he will not learn.

 

[Raijin]

*sorry if my English is not correct*

When the Legion was outnumbered by the Thalmor they surrendered. They had no choice. They made the decision to save the men who survived and to send them back to their families. Surrendering doesn't mean they agree with the Thalmor - they just need time to rebuild their strength so they can kick some Thalmor asses.

Ulfric is not the true high king of Skyrim because he's like a child that doesn't understand he can't get everything he wants. Sometimes it takes a long time to achieve your goals. If it was up to him he would fight until there was no man left, even when it was obvious the Aldmeri Dominion would win the war. He would make unnecessary sacrifices.

A good leader is not a leader who won every battle, it is a leader who also failed and learned. For failing is the best lesson in life. It can make a man wise.

The Legion failed and learned. Ulfric failed and refused to acknowledge. Therefor he will not learn.

Did you read my post? I'll post it up for the third time. Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one? | Page 412 | Skyrim Forums

When Titus Mede II ascended the throne in 4E 168, he inherited a weakened empire. The glory days of the Septims were a distant memory.

On the 30th of Frostfall, 4E 171, the Aldmeri Dominion sent an ambassador to the Imperial City with a gift in a covered cart and an ultimatum for the new Emperor. The long list of demands included staggering tributes, disbandment of the Blades, outlawing the worship of Talos, and ceding large sections of Hammerfell to the Dominion. Despite the warnings of his generals of the Empire's military weakness, Emperor Titus Mede II rejected the ultimatum. The Thalmor ambassador upended the cart, spilling over a hundred heads on the floor: every Blades agent in Summerset and Valenwood. And so began the Great War which would consume the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion for the next five years. - Skyrim:The Great War - UESPWiki

If Titus Mede II inherited a weaken Empire why didn't he accepted the terms first time? Why did he rejected them thus causing the Great war?

How can you say that Ulfric is a child who doesn't understand when he was right there as a legion soldier fighting this war that could've been prevented had the Emperor signed the WGC in the first place?

In Ulfric's exact quote "I would gladly retire from the world were such a day to dawn." Until that day comes will either be when he dies fighting against the Aldmeri dominion or the second great war ends, and human kind can once again can thrive over their achievements of domination over Tamriel.