Illusion and Alteration: 2 Schools that are a Joke
- Thread starter Natrilis
- Start date
Taunt
New Member
Totally agree with this. I can make a strong case for the uselessness of the two-handed tree with my play style.Your view of the usefulness or worthlessness of this school's skills and perk tree are dependent on how you choose to play Skyrim. There are so many different ways to achieving the end (if you so choose) of this game, that to completely discredit the usefulness of these skills and perk trees only show narrow mindedness... now cooking on the other hand....
(Elsweyr Fondue notwithstanding)
My current build is http://skyrimcalculator.com/#77476, a female Breton. My gear is:
Master Illusionist Robe
Shrouded Handwraps
Shrouded Shoes
Mages Circlet
Glass Dagger (Base Stats)
Glass Mace w/ Magika Absorb
Necklace and Ring with Illusion cost reduction
This build allows me to be a menacing assassin with skills like Invisibility and Pacify. But I can also cast *flesh, equip my mace (r) and Fast Heal (L) and just stand there and perma heal while attacking.
I also find Illusion extremely fun. Mayhem is GREAT in Giant camps. I hardly ever die, but the game is still a challenge and I have endless combinations to kill with because I can be a pure Assassin, Spellsword, Mage or a Mage Assassin.
I hope those of you who doubt or dont like Illusion and Alteration give my build a try. If you do send me some feedback and let me know what you think.
THIS
Kerzechtus
Power Gamer
Illusion and Alteration are amazing. . . .
Necromis
Well-Known Member
Agreed, the worthiness of these schools of magic depends on your playing style. I have a sneak mystic assassin that used the conjured Mystic Bow, and I am working on getting my Illusion skill up for both the muffle, and the quiet casting perk. Within the illusion skill I find that frenzy is a great skill for a sneaky assassin from the shadows killer. I had some great fun just the other day sitting up on a rock where Hoarkers could not get me casting frenzy on them raising my illusion skill and watching them kill each other. Also while lower level fear allows you to make those enemies run off when you get discovered and have more than one on you at a time. Fear them, make one run away and worry about the other until he comes back. Invisibility as has been said before, "nuff said" for a sneak character.
Alteration has also been addressed, but I think the main theme to the responses here and the conclusion is, that depending on what you are playing depends on whether a school of magic or specific skill is good for you or not. I personally would get owned by a bandit if I tried to use destruction magic or a two handed sword. But would own a giant right now with my sneak attack with my mystic bow. So it all depends on your playing style.
Alteration has also been addressed, but I think the main theme to the responses here and the conclusion is, that depending on what you are playing depends on whether a school of magic or specific skill is good for you or not. I personally would get owned by a bandit if I tried to use destruction magic or a two handed sword. But would own a giant right now with my sneak attack with my mystic bow. So it all depends on your playing style.
conchvegas
Aravis, deadly archer
You're forgetting the Fear Spell, under Illusion. Useful for backing an enemy into a corner and hacking away em. I do use clairvoyance quite a bit too. As for muffled, agreed pretty useless as an enemy still spotted me while using it. The only benefit from it is that it's real easy and fast to level up with. I haven't even touched Alteration.
useless no it depends on how you play. i am a lvl 48 battlemage and i didnt start wearing armor until i was around lvl 30. i had a set of fine clothes enchanted with magic regen and magic resist. i use the the illusion school as my go to spell. i use frury and frenzy to send the first enemy i see running around looking to kill anything. to figure out how many enemies are around. works great for reconnaissance. and to thin out a fort full of bandits. then you just have to worry about the stragglers. back before i started wearing armor i would then pop stoneflesh and fireball spells. the alteration schools are for the mages who dont wear armor then the perks for mage armor becomes huge. i didnt take my alteration that high and didnt put many points into it. now the only spells i use from alteration is muffle and every now and then ill use invisibility. i always use muffle while clearing a fort or cave. my mage sneaks everywhere just so i dont get jumped by anything without knowing ive been spotted. and i wear the ebony mail set so im always using muffle. but calling illusion and alteration completely useless is like calling weapons and armor useless. its all in how you play.
MushroomGenius
Jarl of Fungi, Great Khal of the Mushraki
Wow, can you just imagine the flames if someone actually posted that?
A pure Mage would agree though!
lol yeah i know but calling anything in this game useless is a joke. it all depends on how you play and what kind of character you are.Wow, can you just imagine the flames if someone actually posted that?
A pure Mage would agree though!
HEFFAY
Member
Illusion kicks ass... That was the first skill that I got to 100. You don't need it for crowd control, it works great for clearing out dungeons and crypts, or travelling. I can sneak around and frenzy people, animals, undead, daedra they just kill each other, then I conjure a dremora lord and pull out my sword to make epic battles, reanimating the vanquished foes as I go along to keep the battles going... If I am having trouble with an NPC I can use the fear or calm spell and buy myself some time to think of a new strategy or use guerilla tactics... Invisibility I don't even need to talk about. Muffle made the beginning of the game so much easier to sneak with a low skill, (and help improve it), ... Illusion is great, If your character is a thief or assassin, it is probably the most useful skill in the game next to sneak... As you level up and choose illusion perks your character can use them on anyone, I can frenzy Daugr Deathlords and make them ignore me and fight each other. Sometimes it is awesome to just watch bandits kill each other then come in and kill the close to dead survivor, if there is one... If you have a follower or are a conjurer its fun to cast a fear spell on a bandit or daugr, or bear or Falmor and watch them just run in pure terror from your follower who will slaughter them without remorse or damage taken away... Illusion is underrated. I can't stress enough how awesome illusion is once you have the 'Master of the Mind" perk, completely changes the game... Alteration I dont really like either although paralyze is an awesome spell...
TaranTatsuuchi
Member
I hear Felix the pacifist Monk makes good use of illusion
Wolfred the Brave
Member
I'll prove you wrong right now, and I use neither skill even as my mage. Illusion is useful for causing a confusion among enemy ranks. Casting a fear spell here and a frenzy spell there could make your enemies attack eachother or run into hazards. Calm and Harmony are useful because you can make your enemies sit there stupidly while you hammer at them with your best spells/weapons.
Candlelight/magelight are the two most useful non-offensive spells I have used yet. I found a daedric battleaxe in a chest that was hidden by darkness after firing a random magelight at a wall. Honestly I hate the "flesh" spells because being a mage is about being strong of will and might but weak of body, at least in most fantasy. Waterbreathing is worthless because it takes the whole duration to start suffocating underwater, although is useful in leveling up alteration- stand in any depth of water and keep casting it. Invisibility and muffle are good for sneaking without the skill.
In conclusion, these are purely "cosmetic" skills in the game- for a sense of roleplaying, although it is hilarious to use Illusion in the "Battle for Fort..." missions in the War. I could argue that Conjuration was worthless because the conjured/reanimated get in your way and are pitifully weak, but I know that others know how to use these skills for a full advantage in battle. That is why I don't say that certain skils are stupid- other people know how to use them to the fullest extent of their power.
Candlelight/magelight are the two most useful non-offensive spells I have used yet. I found a daedric battleaxe in a chest that was hidden by darkness after firing a random magelight at a wall. Honestly I hate the "flesh" spells because being a mage is about being strong of will and might but weak of body, at least in most fantasy. Waterbreathing is worthless because it takes the whole duration to start suffocating underwater, although is useful in leveling up alteration- stand in any depth of water and keep casting it. Invisibility and muffle are good for sneaking without the skill.
In conclusion, these are purely "cosmetic" skills in the game- for a sense of roleplaying, although it is hilarious to use Illusion in the "Battle for Fort..." missions in the War. I could argue that Conjuration was worthless because the conjured/reanimated get in your way and are pitifully weak, but I know that others know how to use these skills for a full advantage in battle. That is why I don't say that certain skils are stupid- other people know how to use them to the fullest extent of their power.
Subtle
An Unexpected Ally
On a Nightblade build, Alteration and Illusion are your bread and butter. Your argument is invalid.
As a Nightblade, Invisiblity, Calm, and Frenzy are the Illusion spells I use most when I'm taking down large mobs of enemies or I find myself overun. Detect Dead and Detect Life (Alteration spells) are also insanely useful as an assassin; you should always be aware of your surroundings. Also, Paralysis (another Alteration spell) is gamebreaking when you get to the higher levels. Simply cast Paralysis, and Fus Ro Dah them to death.
So please, next time you're about to bash something in the game, just remember: everything has a point. Bethesda created these types of things to be used in a certain way. Just because you do not use them that way does not mean they are useless.
As a Nightblade, Invisiblity, Calm, and Frenzy are the Illusion spells I use most when I'm taking down large mobs of enemies or I find myself overun. Detect Dead and Detect Life (Alteration spells) are also insanely useful as an assassin; you should always be aware of your surroundings. Also, Paralysis (another Alteration spell) is gamebreaking when you get to the higher levels. Simply cast Paralysis, and Fus Ro Dah them to death.
So please, next time you're about to bash something in the game, just remember: everything has a point. Bethesda created these types of things to be used in a certain way. Just because you do not use them that way does not mean they are useless.
Professor Skalvar
General of the Euphoric Gentleman's Club
Haru17
Lost Falmer
Illusion
-Complete crowd control, whether you want NPCs to gain strength, calm down, flee in terror, or turn and tear one another apart.
-Muffle and Invisibility make you nearly undetectable.
Alteration
-Armor strengthening power
-Paralysis spells to incapacitate enemies
Yup definitely useless. Seriously, I could make an entire playstyle by combining just one of these schools with archery, destruction, one-hand, or two-hand.
-Complete crowd control, whether you want NPCs to gain strength, calm down, flee in terror, or turn and tear one another apart.
-Muffle and Invisibility make you nearly undetectable.
Alteration
-Armor strengthening power
-Paralysis spells to incapacitate enemies
Yup definitely useless. Seriously, I could make an entire playstyle by combining just one of these schools with archery, destruction, one-hand, or two-hand.
Pete
Well-Known Member
My vampires always master illusion. So do my thieves. And a thief / vampire combo is my favorite. The fit is perfect.
When you want to sneak, then you MUST work alone. Followers start fights that cause problems. Plus they can't sneak worth a damn. So that's where Illusion comes in. Thieves can't leave bodies in their wake - and it's bad business for vampires. The rewards of illusion are awesome. Sure muffle is nice, but I find when I play this character type they are easily owned by warriors. So....
-Pete
When you want to sneak, then you MUST work alone. Followers start fights that cause problems. Plus they can't sneak worth a damn. So that's where Illusion comes in. Thieves can't leave bodies in their wake - and it's bad business for vampires. The rewards of illusion are awesome. Sure muffle is nice, but I find when I play this character type they are easily owned by warriors. So....
- Casting pacify NPC's when I'm caught -- nice to walk away
- Dual casting rout at higher level warriors is truly rewarding
- Awesome complement to a dagger / bow character type
-Pete
Psiberzerker
Author
Like most skills, none of them are Useless, you just have to know how to use them. I can't stand pickpocket, nor Alchemy. Do I dismiss them as Useless? Hell no, other players can poison NPCs without a weapon, steal some of the most powerfu artefacts earlier than they should have them, and craft the most powerful items in the game. Alchemy has 1 important effect you can't get anywhere else, Fortify Destruction so you can get more damage from your spells!
Alteration has Detect Life/Undead. Yeah, sure, Aura Whisper is better, but still incredibly useful effects which level fast. Great for hunting in the Rift, or Falkreath Hold, where the game is dense, but the terrain, and foliage makes it hard to see them first. Out in the western planes of Whiterun toward the Reach, it's invaluable for a mage to spot Sabercats before they pounce. Therefore they can get their _flesh spell up, or charge up a spell like Calm, or Paralyze so they can be finished safely with Destruction. For an Assassin/Nightblade type, it's great for planning out a run, spotting where everyone is, and cutting through the most efficient, and lowist risk route to the target/s.
Illusion is not a stand alone school. You have to have something with it because it's primarily defensive, with a little offense with Rage effects that can't finish the battle by themselves. However, this is the school for ruling the battlefield, either but using frenzy/fear to direct the enemies' movements, or Invisibility to stay out of sight while your summons, and/or dead thralls do the fighting for you.
Alteration has Detect Life/Undead. Yeah, sure, Aura Whisper is better, but still incredibly useful effects which level fast. Great for hunting in the Rift, or Falkreath Hold, where the game is dense, but the terrain, and foliage makes it hard to see them first. Out in the western planes of Whiterun toward the Reach, it's invaluable for a mage to spot Sabercats before they pounce. Therefore they can get their _flesh spell up, or charge up a spell like Calm, or Paralyze so they can be finished safely with Destruction. For an Assassin/Nightblade type, it's great for planning out a run, spotting where everyone is, and cutting through the most efficient, and lowist risk route to the target/s.
Illusion is not a stand alone school. You have to have something with it because it's primarily defensive, with a little offense with Rage effects that can't finish the battle by themselves. However, this is the school for ruling the battlefield, either but using frenzy/fear to direct the enemies' movements, or Invisibility to stay out of sight while your summons, and/or dead thralls do the fighting for you.
FlickerWick
El. Psy. Congroo.
It all depends on the character you're playing, as others have said.
I once RPed a Nordic historian (Redguard) who went out of his way to explore any and every ruin he came across. The light spells, water breathing, telekinesis, paralysis and other Alteration spells all came in handy. For example, he could pinch items from across the room if there were too many mobs, take out a lone tough one and sneak past, explore shipwrecks, light dark corridors...sure, there are enchantments and other ways of getting around those problems but it sure was fun.
I once RPed a Nordic historian (Redguard) who went out of his way to explore any and every ruin he came across. The light spells, water breathing, telekinesis, paralysis and other Alteration spells all came in handy. For example, he could pinch items from across the room if there were too many mobs, take out a lone tough one and sneak past, explore shipwrecks, light dark corridors...sure, there are enchantments and other ways of getting around those problems but it sure was fun.
