I Officially Hate Illusion

[LotusEater]

The name of the thread is "I officially hate illusion" not "I find illusion boring". In reading this thread all I have seen is complaints about how illusion has let people down through not affecting higher level enemies, or making frenzied enemies hostile to there selves. Its not people finding it boring that caused me to make such a claim, it is basic mistakes like those that caused it. As Dagmar said, sneaking whilst casing frenzy with the Silent Casting perk will NOT make the enemy run to your location, but rather attack he's/her/its comrades. The Frenzy spell affects levels 14 and lower coupled with the animage/kindred mage and rage perks brings this to around level 24, dual cast that makes it affect levels 48 and lower, it would be very difficult to find a group of opponents that Frenzy, used properly, wouldn't affect.

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I hate it because it's boring. And yes, it's official.

Not many are debating the power level that I can see. It's the implementation and lack of imagination that makes me hate it. Ya, it's let me down on a few occasions, but not enough to question it's power. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that some are happy with the vanilla representation of so-called illusion magic. But it's more mind control than illusion. Me and my kids call Illusion 'Psionics' because of that fact.

 

[Nighthiker77]

I don't get very excited about destruction, but i do like illusion and conjuration, and I would LOVE to "conjure" illusion entities that inflicted perceived pain with no physical damage. Being noncorporial, they wouldn't take damage either. A set of 3, warrior, archer, and mage.

 

[khazan99]

Putting aside the earlier "damage=/=protection debate", your main point would be that the Illusion school should have had more spells such as Mirror Image, Illusory Monster, Illusory Pit, Illusory Spiked Wall, and stuff like that, yes? Things that trick the eyes and mind of your opponents into making useless attacks or maneuvers, correct?

If that's the main point, then I'd have to agree at least in part, because spells like that would be very interesting to have. The Illusion school as it stands now, for the most part (not entirely, mind you) seems to be simply a complement to the Sneak skill tree in some ways.

 

[LotusEater]

I don't get very excited about destruction, but i do like illusion and conjuration, and I would LOVE to "conjure" illusion entities that inflicted perceived pain with no physical damage. Being noncorporial, they wouldn't take damage either. A set of 3, warrior, archer, and mage.

I'm actually more in to Alteration than Destruction and I will fully admit that Illusion is great for a sneakthief and for a vampire type build. I just think they could have:

A- Made the effect more grand and impressive. I mean, I can bolster my Fire Breath so that little wurms will come out and attack/distract... why doesn't Illusion actually create an Illusion as opposed to just implying it.

B- Had a little more variety. It's basically the same spells at high level, with the exception of Invisibilty.

 

[HappyFaceClown]

My main gripe with illusion magic is simply that it does not work half the time, i can't count how many times its gotten me killed all cuz i shot a bolt of frenzy at a group of high level bandits from a mile away and instead of attacking each other they all decided to hike up the mountain to where i was and slaughter me! Its just not reliable, i dunno if bethesda designed it this way on purpose or if its a bug but either way it sucks.

If you're going to use Frenzy effectively you have to use stealth, e.g. the Quiet Casting perk, and the Muffle and Invisibility spells. The reason why they're attacking you is because even though a Frenzy spell does no damage it's still flagged as an assault by the game and the NPC AI so it's like going up to a guy and causing him to be generally pissed off while punching him in the face. You have to be undetectable by your target to ensure that they won't aggro on you.

Your not understanding me, I Am *NOT* being detected and its still not working, instead it simply draws them to my location, hence what i meant by *from a mile away* naturally if you used it right in the line of sight to an enemy you'd be instantly spotted and pursued, i assure u i am not. -_-

 

[Black Orchid]

I've found illusion works very well when you have some perks invested in sneak. Another important element is to not have a follower. When I cast Frenzy or Fury spells, at first I'm a target, but by then by sneaking, I watch the mayhem. Calm -- a vampires and thief's bets friend. Not to mention how nice it works on animals. Don't get me started on muffle, a wonderfull spell for taking shiny objects.

It's just boring and anticlimactic imo.

That is until you cast Fury on Heimskr and watch all the guards in Whiterun use him as a sword dummy.

 

[Thorn]

^^ Things like this are why Illusion is my favorite school of magic, just edging out Alteration. If the imagination of the mage is good, then the outcome can be amazing.

 

[LotusEater]

^^ Things like this are why Illusion is my favorite school of magic, just edging out Alteration. If the imagination of the mage is good, then the outcome can be amazing.

I hear what you are saying, but trust me, imagination isn't the shortcoming. I used to play RPG's on a cassette tape with nothing more than a single line of text for 'immersion'. Then I actually graduated to a floppy disk with 10 pixel images.

The only lack of imagination on display here is the Illusion spell list. You basically go from using low level Calm and Frenzy spells on low-level opponents to using high-level Calm and Frenzy spells on high-level opponents. You are basically pulling the same tricks all the way through except that you can go Invisible in addition. Not impressive.

 

[HappyFaceClown]

I've found illusion works very well when you have some perks invested in sneak. Another important element is to not have a follower. When I cast Frenzy or Fury spells, at first I'm a target, but by then by sneaking, I watch the mayhem. Calm -- a vampires and thief's bets friend. Not to mention how nice it works on animals. Don't get me started on muffle, a wonderfull spell for taking shiny objects.

It's just boring and anticlimactic imo.

That is until you cast Fury on Heimskr and watch all the guards in Whiterun use him as a sword dummy.

I don't understand how yall are doing this, every time i have tried using fury or frenzy on someone in a town all that happens is guards swarm me. And i have tried this hundreds of times to get rid of that battle born asshole in whiterun without a bounty, all i get are dozens of arrows in my ass! starting to think my game is glitched.

 

[Black Orchid]

It's just boring and anticlimactic imo.

That is until you cast Fury on Heimskr and watch all the guards in Whiterun use him as a sword dummy.

I don't understand how yall are doing this, every time i have tried using fury or frenzy on someone in a town all that happens is guards swarm me. And i have tried this hundreds of times to get rid of that battle born asshole in whiterun without a bounty, all i get are dozens of arrows in my ass! starting to think my game is glitched.

It's important that no one witnesses you casting the spell. Being in sneak mode while hiding out somewhere is how I do it. Keep hiding until your mark is dead. You definitely don't want to cast Fury out in the open, since it's considered a hostile act, apparently. It has back-fired on me a few times, so keep trying.

 

[Nord Warrior]

I don't understand how yall are doing this, every time i have tried using fury or frenzy on someone in a town all that happens is guards swarm me. And i have tried this hundreds of times to get rid of that battle born asshole in whiterun without a bounty, all i get are dozens of arrows in my ass! starting to think my game is glitched.

Yea I hate that battleborn asshole too, I usually slaughter him when I enter beast form for the first time in whiterun.

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[HappyFaceClown]

I don't understand how yall are doing this, every time i have tried using fury or frenzy on someone in a town all that happens is guards swarm me. And i have tried this hundreds of times to get rid of that battle born asshole in whiterun without a bounty, all i get are dozens of arrows in my ass! starting to think my game is glitched.

Yea I hate that battleborn asshole too, I usually slaughter him when I enter beast form for the first time in whiterun.

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I usually visit him in his sleep, preferably as a vampire i'll break into the house, feed on him a few times then gut him with the most powerful weapon i have on hand. I've gotten away several times with no bounty using this method.

 

[DrunkenMage]

You dislike Illusion? A Jedi you will not become.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

You have to be picky, I've found. Muffle, Invisibility, calm - fine/frenzy, fury, et al. why bother...

 

[Medea]

It all depends on what skills you utilize through the game. No matter what skill or school of magic you like to use, you're going to be spamming the same spells or attacks over and over. Any skill can become boring with overuse.

I've found Illusion to be pretty useful myself. A fire storm spell at high level, even with all the perks you need to make it as powerful as it can be, isn't going to kill anything past skeevers and wolves. You're still going to be attacked by large groups of powerful enemies. Harmony will take nearly every type of creature around you out of play, especially with all the right perks, and a dual-cast pacify spell is even more powerful for higher level individual enemies.

If anything, destruction is the most useless school at high levels. Master level destruction spells don't do enough damage (especially blizzard), and they don't stagger an opponent the way a dual-cast destruction spell of lower aptitude would.

 

[Joker]

So your claim is that people who think Illusion is boring just don't know how to use it properly. It's no secret that you can use Illusion for days and not get involved in melee and it's not even complicated to do so. That's the point. Easy=Boring imo.

I would prefer if my high-level boring Illusion spells weren't just retreads of low-level boring Illusion spells. Even so, I'd enjoy using them a lot more even if there was just one little effect besides an aura. Fear spell... ok... how about a simple holographic anything for them to run from?

Hang on a minute. The high level Illusion spells are nothing more than retreads of low level Illusion spells, and destruction is far better?????

Novice Spells: Flames, Frostbite, Sparks
Apprentice Spells: Firebolt, Ice Spike, Lightningbolt
Adept Spells: Fireball, Ice Storm, Chain Lightning
Expert Spells: Incinerate, Icy Spear, Thunderbolt
Master Spells: Fire Storm, Blizzard, Lightning Storm

Yeah, Destruction is no where near repetitive like Illusion.

 

[LotusEater]

So your claim is that people who think Illusion is boring just don't know how to use it properly. It's no secret that you can use Illusion for days and not get involved in melee and it's not even complicated to do so. That's the point. Easy=Boring imo.

I would prefer if my high-level boring Illusion spells weren't just retreads of low-level boring Illusion spells. Even so, I'd enjoy using them a lot more even if there was just one little effect besides an aura. Fear spell... ok... how about a simple holographic anything for them to run from?

Hang on a minute. The high level Illusion spells are nothing more than retreads of low level Illusion spells, and destruction is far better?????

Novice Spells: Flames, Frostbite, Sparks
Apprentice Spells: Firebolt, Ice Spike, Lightningbolt
Adept Spells: Fireball, Ice Storm, Chain Lightning
Expert Spells: Incinerate, Icy Spear, Thunderbolt
Master Spells: Fire Storm, Blizzard, Lightning Storm

Yeah, Destruction is no where near repetitive like Illusion.

Ignoring the fact that you conveniently left out all the Rune and Wall spells, each Destruction element is different and affects things differently. I know you know this so I won't explain. Not to mention you left out Cloaks... which also happens to include Whirlwind Cloak, which is basically pure protection.

Flames can be cast continuous, Fireballs are projectiles that explode and effect an area, Chain lightning jumps from one person to another, Frost slows people down, Ice Storm affects a bigger area than Frost, thus making it more useful in a different way. I could go on but I'd like to move on to Illusion for comparison.

Clairvoyance- Different but utterly useless unless you still get lost, even then only partially useful.

Courage- Targets won't flee
Rally- Targets won't flee again

Calm- Targets won't fight
Pacify- Targets won't fight again
Harmony- Targets won't fight

Fury- Targets attack anything
Frenzy- See above
Frenzy Rune- An appreciated spin but same effect as above
(Not to mention all of these effects can be duplicated with a potion, maybe easier)

Fear- Targets run away, also can be duplicated with a potion

Invisibilty- I make WAY better potions for this effect

Muffle- Great for quick-leveling, but easily attainable through other means. Completely redundant late game imo

All the Master Spells are retreads except for Call to Arms which is only useful with followers and Vision of the Tenth Eye, which you know as well as me is completely useless.

So unlike you, I went ahead and listed EVERY Illusion spell that I know of. Thanks because now seeing it all in print, I really hate it.

Also, people keep coming at me with Destruction, which is fine since I did mention it in my OP, however, my primary school has always been Alteration, Illusion was my second school before I dumped it for Destruction for fun factor.

 

[Sahdira]

This one agrees that the spells of Illusion are not completely without use. Sahdira is quite fond of her muffle and invisibility spells. However, when her life is on the line Sahdira relies on the simple methods that always work: a strong bow and an axe to the head. In this one's humble opinion, it is better to rely on tricks before the fight starts. Its is when Khajiit tries to show off with fancy tricks that she ends up getting hurt. That is why this one prefers spells of Alteration to spells of Illusion.

 

[Writes-Many-Posts]

You can't imagine the excitement I felt with magic the first time I played Skyrim.
Destruction
Expectation: OH MY GAWD! I can burn and freeze anything to death! I bet there is even a hidden spell that does water and wind damage.
Reality: Burn, freeze and shock anything to death, hidden stormy spells, spriggan and ash spells, runes...

Conjuration
Expectation: OMAZING! I will call anything from a wild pegasus to an undead dragon to fight for me until the horn of the last judgement rings and they fall without energy!
Reality: Atronachs... Shame there isn't anything else really... Reviving dead! Temporarily... Durnehviir comes as the undead dragon and Arvak as the conjured mount, and the Ritual Stone allows me to get most beings as my allies.

Restoration
Expectation: I bet I will make the wimpiest of the village kids able to take down a dragon through a kickass healing spell. Also, I will be able to conjure a fenix made of light to fly through a dungeon and let me have a clear path! (Damn skill picture! It's all because of that!)
Reality: I can heal many wimpy idiots and even create glowing circles of an energy that is so pure you have no idea of HTW or WTF you just cast... The fenix flew away, but you have a poison rune and some balls of sunlight that can go very far... Poor I guess...

Alteration
Expectation: I will make my ears pointy as the elves even though I am an argonian! I will make my fingers become daggers and I will grow a fish tail! Then my foes' weapons will become useless marlins and trouts and I will slowly slaughter them with my water destruction spells!
Reality: You get to fling objects in the air and figure out how many beings are nearby and want to kill you... Yay? You can make your skin very tough and change your lungs temporarily to breathe underwater. Although you almost miss it unless it is in 3rd person.

Illusion
Expectation: I can become a god! One of those annoying mages, always teleporting through simic images! Then I will increase my size to the one of a beast three... no, four times my size! I will create illusionary dragons in the sky to terrify peasants and I will make wallets invisible so people think they are broke... MWAHAHAHA! I will make any sort of persuasion through the easy manipulation of a lesser brain, and I will make any being think that houses and mountains are within my comand to make them feel powerless as I proceed... Then mix the constant illusion of people thinking that they are falling, as well as that they are being betrayed so that they walk around drunkly and try to kill their friends. I will make the Jarl's housecarls murder the person they must protect! And then... I will make an army made of every capable warrior for me! Convince every man and woman to join my legion, thus ending this pointless war! Oh, I almost forgot about convincing every person to give me money weekly! What a genius!
Reality: You can make bad guys angrier, you can make bad guys stand still and let you pickpocket them, you can make bad guys become coward bad guys. You can become invisible, AS LONG AS you don't touch anything! WHY?! I become invisible to pick pockets, break in shoppes and steal every fluffin' valuable there is!

 

[jarif]

I don't understand how yall are doing this, every time i have tried using fury or frenzy on someone in a town all that happens is guards swarm me. And i have tried this hundreds of times to get rid of that battle born asshole in whiterun without a bounty, all i get are dozens of arrows in my ass! starting to think my game is glitched.

Yea I hate that battleborn asshole too, I usually slaughter him when I enter beast form for the first time in whiterun.

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how uncivil lol