enchanting & smithing redundant ?

[tomaja]

Hi guys,

I have taken your advice and gave alchemy a try and it is absolutelt amazing and increadibly powerful!

In fact, it is so powerful that it makes me think if I will ever need enchanting and smithing for my 41 level now sneaky dagger / bow assassin, who some time ago started adventuring (finally) on Master difficulty.

I did not touch smithing yet, and enchanting has hit level 39 only because I have been disenchanting a lot of stuff and enchanting stolen jewellery for sale with bought already filled soul gems.

I got the hang of sneaking and I can sneak up on most things now which directly translates in 1 - hit kills with basic elven dagger (including giants and mammoths). Only recently I have switched to double ebony daggers only because they look so cool to me. Again, they are unenchanted and not even sharpened.

For a change of pace or under specific circumstance I switch to bow - I like playing an archer so lately I have been actually half an assasin and half an archer. But even with a bow I always try to get the x3 sneak bonus - I wish it were x30 Now I have ebony bow and mostly use steel arrows. I save elven and dwarven for later.

Now back to the main issue of alchemy making smithing and enchanting redundant imho.

I honestly see no point in developing the skills.

I have tried and extensively used the following potions:
- invisibility - invaluable, and so overpowered; Gets the job done. Always.
- dmg health + slow;
- paralysis + lingering health dmg;
- dmg health + lingering dmg health;
- amd of course weakness to poison with any of the above
- and lots of health pots.

With an invisibility potion I can sneak up on every creature.

With all the poisons and concentrated poison perk bow has become a really formidable tool of destruction.

Btw, I got the green finger perk and it is very useful since I do not exploit the "quicksave hit quickload" merchant thing. I always seemed not to have enough of Imp Stool and Canis Root. Now the supply meets my demand

So, what is the point of developing smithing and enchanting then?

 

[AS88]

The thing with smithing and enchanting is that the buffs on yourself or your gear are permanent. Say, you make one of those Ebony Daggers 'superior,' it'll do a higher level of damage, whatever happens. Alchemy is extremely powerful, but you have to use it for it to work at all, if you see what I mean. Some people don't think the inconvenience of poisoning a weapon is worth it, but some people much prefer it. That's a benefit of a sneaky character, though, you can hide out and poison your weapons before you sneak into the room and get the job done, rather than a warrior for example, who has that mini-menu every time they want to poison their weapon, which they're swinging 15 times.

On Expert, it's quite viable to have no crafting skills whatsoever, and maximising the use of Alchemy can make that build Master-viable. You can even use Alchemy to boost your other crafting skills, which can then create a permanent buff like I mentioned earlier

 

[Twiffle]

Hi guys,

I have taken your advice and gave alchemy a try and it is absolutelt amazing and increadibly powerful!

In fact, it is so powerful that it makes me think if I will ever need enchanting and smithing for my 41 level now sneaky dagger / bow assassin, who some time ago started adventuring (finally) on Master difficulty.

I did not touch smithing yet, and enchanting has hit level 39 only because I have been disenchanting a lot of stuff and enchanting stolen jewellery for sale with bought already filled soul gems.

I got the hang of sneaking and I can sneak up on most things now which directly translates in 1 - hit kills with basic elven dagger (including giants and mammoths). Only recently I have switched to double ebony daggers only because they look so cool to me. Again, they are unenchanted and not even sharpened.

For a change of pace or under specific circumstance I switch to bow - I like playing an archer so lately I have been actually half an assasin and half an archer. But even with a bow I always try to get the x3 sneak bonus - I wish it were x30 Now I have ebony bow and mostly use steel arrows. I save elven and dwarven for later.

Now back to the main issue of alchemy making smithing and enchanting redundant imho.

I honestly see no point in developing the skills.

I have tried and extensively used the following potions:
- invisibility - invaluable, and so overpowered; Gets the job done. Always.
- dmg health + slow;
- paralysis + lingering health dmg;
- dmg health + lingering dmg health;
- amd of course weakness to poison with any of the above
- and lots of health pots.

With an invisibility potion I can sneak up on every creature.

With all the poisons and concentrated poison perk bow has become a really formidable tool of destruction.

Btw, I got the green finger perk and it is very useful since I do not exploit the "quicksave hit quickload" merchant thing. I always seemed not to have enough of Imp Stool and Canis Root. Now the supply meets my demand

So, what is the point of developing smithing and enchanting then?

I know rest my case, , thanxs for actually taking a little of my advise and giving it a go, , and i am not surprised at all by what you have discovered.
welcome to the Pharmaceutical club of Skyrim,

 

[Perkless in Skyrim]

Enchanting is similar to Alchemy in some ways. Both have a variety of effects that can enhance your skills or deal extra damage. Enchanting can actually benefit Alchemy and Smithing since you can craft sets of Fortify Alchemy or Fortify Smithing equipment which will boost your abilities significantly. And they don't wear off until you remove the gear. If you think your potions and poisons are good now, try crafting a full set of Fortify Alchemy +25%.

With the Smithing Perks, you can make your own high level armor and weapons, and even improve already enchanted gear.

You can become incredibly OP which is why some people don't develop them at all. It's your game and your choice. I would try making different characters and trying different things. Then you can compare each and decide which is worth your effort.

White River Watch, if you haven't discovered it already, is fairly close to Whiterun on the road leading East before you get to the Ritual Stone. It's kinda up in the mountains but you should be able to see it's marker from the road. Inside is a massive load of Imp Stool and other mushrooms. Canis Root is a bit more rare but there are a few spots around Ivarstead and Morthal where it can be found. Morthal is also THE place to go for Deathbell. With Green Fingers you will be hooked up for a while.

 

[tomaja]

I have already cleared the three locations of all (it seems like it) herbs. The canis root is a real pain to spot though. It took me more than an hour or two even to find several samples (x2 of course ) around Morthar.

My alchemy (level 72) is already +35% from a mask (20%) and a ring (15%). seems to do the trick atm, but more is always better.

Armour enchantments are nice to have but imo needed most when engaging in direct fights. As a sneak char I wear what catches my eye DB gloves for dmg bonus and TG armour for crrying capacity (invaluable for me as I solo the game; mount Shadowmere from time to time, esp. when my 2,5 year-old daughter is around - she loves the horse keeps presing space all the time ).

Resistances on very rare occasions I handle with resistance potions.

I might actually give smithing a try - already stocked up on gold inglots via transmute and melt. now I have to steal enough gems to craft all these gold neckleces.

Besides you are right - once sharpened the dmg is there to stay forever.

But sneak dmg (assassin blade perk)+ DB gloves + armsmen = 1 - hit kills provided I am undetected and this is where fun begins. If I lose patience or it is just plain impossible to sneak up on someone I pop an invisibility potion ... .

The way I see it alchemy will most likely see me through the game. On master. I do not want to get too overpowered - right now with seak dmg bonus and tactical poison use and invisibility my assassin seems to be really strong.

Of course the thrill comes from tactical sneaking and positioning myself and taking down multiple targets in less then optimal surroundings.

Now ,my poisons are nothing fnacy - above 70 dmg to health but when combined with slow (more then 1 minute), weakness to poison, paralysis (about 14 - 15 seconds) lingering health dmg (I use least) they really kick the rear part

 

[Twiffle]

PS : if you canis root, walk from Riften to Ivarstead you will probably collect around 30 of them.

 

[Cherry]

The reason I prefer Enchanting/Smithing to Alchemy, is I prefer my buffs to be permanent. I've noticed that I usually just forget about my Fortify Archery potions and never remember to use them, so I'd rather have an equivalent ring or something.

When I do use Alchemy, it's usually for Invisibility and Paralysis, which can't really be attained with Enchanting. Well, Paralysis can, but I find the Paralysis enchantment to be too inconsistent and not very cost effective. It eats up a lot of charge. Plus it never seems to activate when I need it most. No such problem with a poison.

 

[AS88]

PS : if you canis root, walk from Riften to Ivarstead you will probably collect around 30 of them.

 

[tomaja]

So at the end of a day it is all a matter of personal preference and game style - I noticed aa a sneak assassin I do not need armour rating or resistances aside from few rare encounters - anything that could not possibly be offset with alchemy.

Smithing might prove useful as bows lack this x30 sneak dmg bonus but alch more than makes up for it, at least now.

besides, I kind of like brewing my potions and with concentrated poison they lasts for 2 hits which is enough.

when I find myself in a situation when I notice I need armour and resistances I will switch to a warrior. assassim is tactical, taking time sometimes to pull off the kill. But I like it this way since in other games it is always hack n' slash.

 

[Wildroses]

Personally I always do some disenchanting, enchanting and smithing only using whatever materials I loot or receive as quest rewards, even for characters who are not smiths or enchanters. Why? The easy XP and it isn't costing me anything.

But I would avoid directly using smithing and enchanting to help your gameplay if you are already using alchemy. I played an enchanting smithing alchemist once. It was so boring I vowed never to become overpowered again and I began coming up with ways to limit myself.

 

[Twiffle]

Personally I always do some disenchanting, enchanting and smithing only using whatever materials I loot or receive as quest rewards, even for characters who are not smiths or enchanters. Why? The easy XP and it isn't costing me anything.

But I would avoid directly using smithing and enchanting to help your gameplay if you are already using alchemy. I played an enchanting smithing alchemist once. It was so boring I vowed never to become overpowered again and I began coming up with ways to limit myself.

I did all 3 crafts once and also found it incredibly boreing from then on, As alchemy is my favourite school i tend to do lots of builds utilising it, however i do one without i only choose one of the other 2 swchools so as not to fall in the same trap as well.

 

[Wildroses]

One way I get around the overpowered alchemist who enchants is by just selling all my enchanted stuff. I may have a high level of enchanting, but I don't benefit. As for smithing, one of the great things about Hearthfire is that you have to craft so many nails, locks, hinges and fittings your smithing skill just skyrockets.

 

[tomaja]

I do the same - disenchant and enchant to sell to get the exp.

Soon I am going to smith a lot of gold neckleces to get a few levels.

Besides, I like role playing a little. Therefore the notion of alchemy falls nice into place with my assassin. Somehow I do not see him smithing and enchanting. Proficient at everything - overkill.

As an assassin, he has got to be proficient at finding alternate ways to kill - poisons namely. I like it when he is so focused at the alch table brewing his concotions.

Smithing would be good with a sword and bord toon, or two - handed conan better yet sweating it away at the forge with 50 centimeter biceps

Enchanting I like with mages.

I got myself an assassin / thief hybrid - he is proficient with sneaking, I got him few speech perks and few pickpocket perks. I like these perks a lot. I am a believer in this "perk as you go" philosophy.

armsmaster will be maxed from one handed. archery almost all in the end.

Maybe I will fool around with shadow warrior as I have the points to spare.

Maybe even the useless lockpicking tree to quicker open locks as now I find it amusing to break into houses at nights and loot sleeping people.

This is the most funny char I had in the long time. If I went for a pure warrior as I intended before I would not have enjoyed the game as much.

With him there are so many ways to play - I do not have much time to play, so sometimes I just wait untill midnight (gametime) and go picking shrooms for half an hour

 

[ColleenG]

Ultimately it depends on how powerful you want to become. For a power-mad Dovakiin like me, no number is too high. Also, the smithing and enchanting you do help you level up. I go legendary on smithing about 2x per character, because it helps me get to the higher levels, and the game changes a lot when you hit level 60 or so. So yeah, I like my full suit of dragonbone armor, rated at 800+ with enchantments, but I also like facing a roomful of Drauger Death Overlords instead of some measly Draugr wights.

 

[tomaja]

"but I also like facing a roomful of Drauger Death Overlords instead of some measly Draugr wights". - so at higher level this will be the difference? that upgraded draugr will appear? I only made sneaking and pickpocket legendary as these are dead easy for me to level if need to. smithing harder.

btw,I am level 41 now. if I make a skill legendary now and bring it back to lets say level 95, how many levels will my assassin gain? from 41 to 43 maybe or more?

 

[ColleenG]

Yes, upgraded Draugr, Forswarn, and Falmer. Sometimes upgraded bandits. Dragon priests become especially deadly. You get Ancient and Legendary dragons. One blast from them and you're toast.

I don't really know how many levels you gain, but I do know that they're harder to achieve the higher the level you are, so you can use all the help you can get. My personal opinion on this game is unless you make it to level 81 with real things left to do (not repeats), you LOST! I have yet to win Skyrim. But I will.

 

[tomaja]

So I will have to hit level 60 + to see these upgraded creatures?

It could be nice to kill some un-upgraded first and later as I gain levels and they respawn they will be more powerful.

Btw, do you guys can think of any use of dragon shouts for a sneak assassin? because, honestly, i stopped bothering with them. so maybe next sword and bord toon will find them more useful.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

I don't have the patience for intensive alchemy so I use smithing and enchantment to achieve what I need. I find that the only potions I use are healing ones or the occassional magicka one. It's sad really. I just use alchemy to make money, make invisibility potions (until I have the spell) and to level.

I find it just much too intrusive to constantly be looking for potions and poisons to use as I'm playing.

 

[Snake Tortoise]

I think enchanting is way ahead of everything else, as much as I love alchemy and have argued for it several times on here. Alchemy will make you invisible, but enchanting will make you so hard you won't care who can see you. Alchemy paralyzes, enchanting kills.

If you're playing on a high difficulty I'd say do alchemy, enchanting and smithing. I take 7 perks in alchemy and 8 in enchanting, so they're quite a commitment, but you could be an effective smith with only 2 perks if you really wanted. The three skills work so well together: enchant items with fortify smithing and fortify alchemy; make fortify smithing and enchanting potions with your alchemy gear; pop enchanting potions and make armour and jewelry with double enchantments; then change into your smithing gear, pop a 113% fortify smithing potion and make your armour and weapons monstrously powerful. Watch the enemy run in terror as you hack apart their comrades

Alchemy, enchanting, smithing and speech (for selling) are all default build requirements for me now. I'd be curious to know if (and why) anybody is playing a warrior build on legendary without those skills

 

[Jeremius]

Per the thread title: Just like Alchemy and Restoration, or even Archery and Destruction.