The Hungry Orc
Master of the Pyre
I ended up making a playthrough for both: a Two-Handed Barbarian for the Stormcloaks, and a Healer/Archer cross for the Imperials. I like them both equally.
Empire vs Stormcloaks
- Thread starter SeaDog
- Start date
ChasingWagons
Member
I respected the Emperor when I had to assassinate him, so I killed the person who hired me and I joined his cause. Plus, according to my character's backstory, I come from Cyrodiil.
Knatty Dreadnok
Sword & Sorcery, Sandals & Sex
I chose to be a neutral party. After reading the lore and playing as a Redguard I chose NOT to side with either faction. I have a natural distrust of the Stormcloaks, while some of their motives are justified I felt they do not share the best interests of Skyrim as a whole. They despise & treat everyone except Nords like crap & fighting for their cause is asinine (unless ofcourse you're playing as a Nord). The Empire generally speaking works towards the common good of most of Skyrim's inhabitants but the problem with the Empire is they sell out their allies almost on a whim at the slightest sign of compromise i.e peace. The Thalmor are playing chess and they're quite good at it. The Empire is willing to sacrifice their own soldiers (such as the Blades), foreign allies land, beliefs and rights just to keep a frail peace that will inevitably fail. Even a blind man can see what the Thalmor are doing at this point... destroying the Empire from the inside.
Knatty Dreadnok
Sword & Sorcery, Sandals & Sex
I think that was the BEST approach to putting the EMPIRE back on track!
TakingSides
New Member
But the empire helps you more.. Although I was paid 20,000 coins to execute the Emporer. The new emporer is possibly going to better job. Besides the Empire helps you in your attempt to end the dragon crisis. During this time, the stormcloaks were on the verge of leaving the truce council because they wanted to abuse the council to take land they didn't deserve.
Finally, their arrogance topped the ice-berg for me, because they were so proud, and good yet they weren't beating the empire. They sure suffered when my blades and pet dragon gate crashed their campsites. being a Kahjiit, roasted nord corpse was quite a treat.
Kairee Blackblade
Premium Member
Well, the empire tried to cut my head off, so I'm not too keen on them, but Ulfric is a racist ass.
It all boiled down to who had the sexier voice: Ulfric or Tullius? Stormcloak won out!
It all boiled down to who had the sexier voice: Ulfric or Tullius? Stormcloak won out!
Knatty Dreadnok
Sword & Sorcery, Sandals & Sex
The group I noticed that is rarely mentioned are the Forsworn. After playing the "Forsworn Conspiracy" I realized that the Nords are actually no different in some respects than the Imperials. Karma it seems has finally caught up with the Nords though. Their treatment of the Forsworn is abhorrent! Inevitably the tables might turn on the Imperials, especially since they consistently alienate their allies. What we're witnessing is just a repetitive cycle of violence to establish & maintain dominance; wash, rinse and repeat. It may take a few centuries for to topple the Dominion or vise versa but that's the jist of it. What it all boiled down to "for me" was choosing the lesser evil or abstaining from allying with any faction. The Empire is unreliable (I'm playing as a Redguard joining them might be considered an act of treason since they've cut ties with Hammerfell and Hammerfell is still at war with the Aldmeri Dominion). The Nords are ofcourse for the Nords. So, I chose to abstain... although I do discreetly annihilate any Thalmor troops I come across since they are the real threat!
P.S.
I'm NOT saying the forsworn are innocent in all this. They're clearly in the minority so they have to rely primarily on Guerilla Warfare!
P.S.
I'm NOT saying the forsworn are innocent in all this. They're clearly in the minority so they have to rely primarily on Guerilla Warfare!
Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
That's not true at all. If the dragonborn sides with the Stormcloaks that makes their strength a lot more stronger then the Thalmor. I don't believe what the Dossier says regarding to Ulfric.At the time the Thalmor had no idea that a dragonborn existed, and know how much power that the dragonborn can sustain. I'm amazed every time we speak about Ulfric regarding to the Thalmor in these Stormcloak vs Imperial threads that the Dossier always gets brought up like if Ulfric is some Thalmor agent, which in Skyrim's reality he despises them with a passion.
If the dragonborn can defeat the WORLD EATER aka Alduin just how difficult could it be for the dragonborn to help win the great war against the Thalmor? The ONLY way that the stormcloaks can lose is if the Thalmor takes out their best weapon, the Dragonborn. How can they successfully defeat the dragonborn? The same way that happen with Tiber Septim when the High Rock nightblade almost killed him by slitting his throat which then permanently disabled his use of the voice.
Jersey Dagmar
Just in time for the fiyahworks show! BOOM!
And the Empire general is a sweetheart of a guy. Muddafugga just wanted to arrest my arse!
So, the left approves of torture? Whereas, Rolof, who is high in the Stormcloak organization so therefore knows alot about what must be done, was aghast at the empire using torture at Helgen.
There was a treaty with the high elf/wood elf/cats (Aldmeri Dominion)- The empire gives up the Blades (they haven't), the red guard give up land (they told the empire to fluck off and got out of the empire), and the Nords had to give up Talos worship (some nords still want in the empire, some want out like the Redguard).
Who is in the Aldmeri Dominion - elves.. Who destroyed Saarthal - elves. Who used to enslave nords - dark elves. Whose chief god is daedric prince of dishonor and backstabbing - dark elves. Who comes out of their little rat holes and kidnap nords - Falmers. Who are cannibals - wood elves. These aren't your D&D elves...
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bananban
Member
This was a complicated subject for me and my views are constantly changing. I originally leaned towards the Stormcloaks because Ulfric seemed like a cool dude and the ban on Talos worship irked me a bit...
Then I got to Windhelm and saw the Dunmer and the Argonians sequestered off in the slums and outside the city walls. When I spoke to Brunwulf Free-Winter, it made Ulfric seem uncaring towards anyone who wasn't a Nord. Then I got to Markarth and heard about the relatively peaceful Reachmen takeover in 4E 174 and Ulfric's succeeding attack and massacre of the Reachmen and anyone who didn't stand with him, the Markarth Incident as a whole.
Ultimately, I sided with the Imperials because I just couldn't justify siding with Ulfric and his fanatical followers, despite having an honorable goal to free Skyrim and have open Talos worship.
And now, I'm finding myself even more justified in supporting the Empire because I've developed an interest in the Thalmor. Their sheer cunning and military strength should be enough for even Ulfric to side with the Empire. If Ulfric frees Skyrim by bloody, draining war from the Empire, how can he defend against the Aldmeri Dominion that would seize the opportunity. Although Skyrim isn't the most strategic place for the Dominion, completely separated from the rest and entirely surrounded by the Empire, I am sure they would know Skyrim to be a dangerous foe and send in troops to further weaken their forces and cripple a potential ally to the Empire in the coming Second Great War.
Then I got to Windhelm and saw the Dunmer and the Argonians sequestered off in the slums and outside the city walls. When I spoke to Brunwulf Free-Winter, it made Ulfric seem uncaring towards anyone who wasn't a Nord. Then I got to Markarth and heard about the relatively peaceful Reachmen takeover in 4E 174 and Ulfric's succeeding attack and massacre of the Reachmen and anyone who didn't stand with him, the Markarth Incident as a whole.
Ultimately, I sided with the Imperials because I just couldn't justify siding with Ulfric and his fanatical followers, despite having an honorable goal to free Skyrim and have open Talos worship.
And now, I'm finding myself even more justified in supporting the Empire because I've developed an interest in the Thalmor. Their sheer cunning and military strength should be enough for even Ulfric to side with the Empire. If Ulfric frees Skyrim by bloody, draining war from the Empire, how can he defend against the Aldmeri Dominion that would seize the opportunity. Although Skyrim isn't the most strategic place for the Dominion, completely separated from the rest and entirely surrounded by the Empire, I am sure they would know Skyrim to be a dangerous foe and send in troops to further weaken their forces and cripple a potential ally to the Empire in the coming Second Great War.
Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
I saw your post as Jaeger quoted you so I thought I respond to it as well.
1. Ulfric did NOT brutally murdered the high king so what you said was false. Ulfric however did Kill him, not murdered him. Had he came from behind unannounced and gave him a stab from behind with a dagger then it would've been a different story. The fact is that people are complaining that Ulfric used the voice to shouted him down to the ground as he then shoved his blade through his heart.
2. FALSE. Hes not racist against all types of elves. If he was racist then he wouldn't had let 2 elves (Altmers in particular) own 2 prominent houses inside Windhelm. He wouldn't had allowed a DARK elf to own a farm.
3. Why should he reason with the Legion when the Legion (Empire) didn't reason with the people in Skyrim when they signed the treaty banning the worship of Talos? The empire brought the Aldmeri Dominion to skyrim since Talos is heavily worship. Ulfric wants Skyrim to be free from the tyranny of the Empire. So far I see the empire not reconciling with Ulfric by giving him and the people in skyrim freedom of religion. Instead their the Thalmors puppet.
bananban
Member
1. Ulfric's "murder" of Torygg depends entirely on the individual. Yes, he did defeat and kill Torygg in a duel but the duel was intended to be a swordfight, from what I can gather. Using the voice was underhanded and outraged many people. If Ulfric had defeated him in a COMPLETELY fair fight, many people would be more accepting of his victory.
2. The racism thing is also highly subjective. The "buying the houses only from the Jarl" is likely a game mechanic for organizational purposes. I doubt the elves in Eastmarch all bought their property directly from Ulfric or Jorlief. His own personal beliefs aside, if he was even mildly against the racism in his city and if Brunwulf Free-Winter is 100% reliable, why does he refuse to help the tormented Dunmer of the Gray Quarter or an elf village raided by bandits? Besides, letting only two elves live in a quality part of the city isn't much of a record to brag about.
3. The Empire didn't have a choice in signing the White-Gold Concordat. The Aldmeri Dominion was a force to be reckoned with and the Legion was tired of war. The Concordat is only a temporary treaty that allows both sides to regroup for the next Great War. Besides, what makes you so sure an independent Skyrim can face off the brunt of the Dominion after they wasted away all their resources on the Civil War?
Grogmar Ghrobash
'Tis better to be alone, then of bad company.
Lol, these threads keep popping up and you keep on saying the same thing and someone always tells you different which is usually in most cases more logical than what you would make yourself to believe. The point of the "BEATING A DEAD HORSE" gif was to show that no matter how many times people tell you that you're wrong you never seem to listen to them.
Now that that's said let's just make a few things clear. Ulfric did indeed brutally murder the High King. He used the voice which, according to the gray beards, is not to be used for personal gain. Which Ulfric did to kill the High King. The High King could never have stood a chance against the Thu'um and Ulfric knew this. Ulfric only challenged Torygg to keep his reputation good with the people to make it seem like he wasn't doing it just for his political agenda.
The Empire actually DID give Ulfric and the people of Skyrim freedom to worship Talos. They did this by not enforcing it too harshly on them. It wasn't until Ulfric started rioting about it that the Thalmor started coming in and arresting people. If Ulfric really cared about being allowed to worship Talos he wouldn't have gave away the remaining freedom that they did have to worship in peace.
Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
1. Once you accepted a duel it does not become murder. The High King made a vocal agreement to fight Ulfric to the death. The reason why people accuse Ulfric of murdering him is because of his shout, nothing more. You know how nords are with their views on magic. That's why most of them have such problem with the college at winterhold. Since you claim that it was a swordfight only can you provide me with evidence because I haven't came across anything like that before.
2. You ask "why does he refuse to help the tormented Dunmer of the Gray Quarter or an elf village raided by bandits?" How exactly are these dunmers of the Gray Quarters being tormented? By Galmars brother who gets drunk every night and shows his true feelings for them? They seem to be doing just fine. Even the guards draws business to them as they keep directing me to the elf that owns the trading store to sell my stuff to them. How are they being mistreated may I ask? They have the same protection as the nords. If I came up to a Dark elf and attacked them the guards would then start attacking me. Ulfric is fighting a war right now. unfortunately bandits is less of his problem. It is the Thalmor that the Empire invited over to Skyrim that is the primary target, and Ulfric needs all of the resources to draw them back.
3. Galmar makes an excellent statement regarding to the empire. "The day the Empire signed that damn treaty, was the day the empire died." Independent Skyrim has neighbors. I'm certain that they would be good use to help rid the Thalmor. Also Independent Skyrim has a powerful weapon, Dragonborn to which can be good use to fight off the Thalmor. An addition once Skyrim becomes independent The blades has a safe haven to regroup and restore. After training they can once again start fighting. I'm certain that Delphine and Esbern isn't going to let history slide away, and how the Thalmor slaughtered their brothers and sisters.
I must repeat myself because I keep reading the same nonsense over and over again. Perhaps I should dedicate some time to create FAQ and save it on my hard drive therefour each time I see ignorant post like "Ulfric is Racist" or "Ulfric is a murderer" That I can just open up that FAQ and do a copy and paste. It amazes me the excuses that some people use to be on the imperial side. It's actually quite funny if you ask me because what they say cannot be fact up with facts.
I respect the Greybeards but I do not agree with some of the things that they do. Regards to what the greybeards wants to believe in the Thu'um is a tool, a weapon. To that respects Delphine was right when she said that the greybeards are afraid of power, and wont use it.
"The Greybeards were founded by Jurgen Windcaller after a devastating defeat at Red Mountain in Morrowind where he tried to use the voice as a weapon to destroy his enemies. When he failed, he wondered why the voice had failed him. Jurgen went into personal exile near the throat of the world. Through meditiation he learned the way that mortals can understand and use the voice. It was called the Way of the Voice, and it taught a lifestyle of pacifism and meditative study of the Thu'um." Taken off of Lore:Greybeards - UESPWiki
So here we have the founding father of the Graybeards who decided to use the voice as a weapon and came back with devastating results. Perhaps he wasn't the master of the voice? Perhaps he was a pacific person and didn't like what he saw? Either way the Thu'um is a weapon. The Graybeards need to learn and accept it. pushing people to use this gift for medication reasons will only drive many people away, like Ulfric who refuses to watch the world get torn apart. He was about to become part of the group but his heart was in politics.
If the empire gave Ulfric and the people in skyrim free worship to Talos then why is their a ban of talos? Why didn't the empire told the thalmor to go pisss off? I'm certain that the empire would be getting a hell of a lot more support then what they have now. Even one of the Legates from imperial supporting city said that their limit to recruiting the locals.
bananban
Member
1. A duel in real life has historically been a battle for strength, just like in Skyrim. Judging by the culture of the Nords, I came to the assumption that it was some kind of swordfight. They wouldn't be having a magic duel or a verbal debate, would they? There may not have been explicit rules for the duel so Ulfric may not have technically "cheated" his way to victory but there were certain honorable expectations to keep on his part. If he had an unfair advantage, how would using underhanded (at best) techniques help prove himself the more honorable and the better man for Skyrim's throne? Torygg was a less than ideal king but Ulfric just exacerbated the situation with the Empire and the Dominion.
2. I'm pretty sure the fact that Rolff goes and harasses the Dunmer is enough to consider them tormented. In a game world that is condensed for gameplay purposes, imagine Windhelm full of a hundred thousand people, maybe twenty thousand Dunmer and AT LEAST five thousand Rolffs. Bullying makes people commit suicide in real life. Dunmer are stubborn, yes, but they are refugees that have nothing and nowhere else to go. Their lives are pretty miserable as it is, without the Rolffs harassing them all the time. The least Ulfric could do if he cared was give Rolff a slap on the wrist, it's better than nothing. The point I was making was that Ulfric will take action if a Nord village is attacked by bandits, even during the war, but won't lift a finger if the elven ones are raided.
3. The Empire did die when it signed the Concordat, I agree, but that does not mean it was not on it's way out for a long time before then. What neighbors does independent Skyrim have? Morrowind? They're so devastated, it's people are fleeing to war-torn Skyrim. Cyrodiil? Why would Ulfric accept the Empire's aid after so much blood was spilled freeing Skyrim from it's control, even if the Empire offered it's aid. High Rock? It's also Empire. Hammerfell would be the only logical ally to an independent Skyrim and, even then, what can Hammerfell do to aid Skyrim all that much? Two broken allegiances, Empire and Hammerfell-Skyrim, are still no match for a powerful, organized Dominion. The Dragonborn is powerful, yes, but I still find it hard enough to believe the Dragonborn was the only thing that could turn the tides in the Civil War, (again that was just a game mechanic, not a reasonable story mechanic) let alone being the tie-breaker in a full war against the Dominion. The Blades are a long way from recovery, I doubt they have the time to regroup to their former power in the time it takes for the Dominion to launch another attack. Besides, if the Blades couldn't stand up to the Thalmor near their height, why can they stand up when they are barely clinging to life and struggling to reform?
Buffington Battle-Born
3 B's, Ho!
Emprie, but I wanna quit. 
