Elisif Appreciation Thread

[DrunkenMage]

She kinda does need to play it cool a little bit more. Everyone is a bit tense with the whole civil war thing, but they are hiding it because a leader can't let their followers know that they are as worried as they are. Or maybe she's just trying to seem attentive and receptive. IDK. I always thought it was interesting that she has a different posture from the other Jarls.

I'd like to role play her one day just to try and get into her head.

I think her posture is more that of a noble lady, she was married to the High King. Think high born women were well educated in those types of days on how to sit, how to act etc. She is young and the rest of the Jarls are older and don't have as much care about things/aren't that high up in the political world, they are Jarls of Holds, being wife to the High King could mean seeing the Emperor, Kings and Queens of High Rock, Princes & Princesses etc. Her posture just says noble birth, one who would be surrounded more by high ranking nobles of the Empire. Her status as Torgg's queen could also mean use in political negotiations in other Provinces, when she was more groomed into her duty. High King I believe is the vassal of the Emperor, which is why Ulfric could be charged with High Treason for the killing of the vassal of the Emperor, which is the same as an attack on the Emperor himself. So she is quite high in the political world, while Jarls are simply owners land, much like Counts in Cyrodiil.

 

[Adam Belmont]

I'm not sure if you're implying that the Empire will do anything to keep the Thalmor in a good mood but if you are that's laughable hyberbole.

That's exactly what I wrote, Dagmar. That's the way I see it. The Empire trembles when they see the Thalmor approaching, for me, that's laughable.

As for Elisif, she seems more clueless than fearful of the Thalmor (and clueless in general). Still, she seems a nice enough person and seems to be well loved by most of the people of Haafingar. There's always potential for an inexperienced and naive young member of royalty to eventually be groomed into better leader. Prince Attrebus Mede was pretty clueless and inept before the Umbriel crisis occurred. I don't want to spoil the books for anyone that wants to read them but he eventually rose to the occasion to become the kind of person his father and the Empire needed. No one can say with any certainty that Elisif wouldn't eventually turn out better as well if the mantle of High Queen were passed to her by the Moot.

She's a nice person indeed and everyone loves her, but she doesn't look like a nord woman, or even a nord jarl or queen. She's too kind and shut up when Gen. Tulius tell her to do so. She's too obedient to be a High Queen.

 

[DrunkenMage]

That's exactly what I wrote, Dagmar. That's the way I see it. The Empire trembles when they see the Thalmor approaching, for me, that's laughable.


She's a nice person indeed and everyone loves her, but she doesn't look like a nord woman, or even a nord jarl or queen. It's too kind and shut up when Gen. Tulius tell her to do so. She's too obedient to be a High Queen.

The Empire hardly trembles, they're preparing for war. The Empire does however honor agreements struck, they abide by the terms of the treaty, not anything more. The fact the Empire is keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim by threatening their entire border with a mass of Legions, shows they aren't simply shaking in their boots. Considering Tullius must of told them to piss off at Helgan when they came to stop the execution of Ulfric, so Tullius must of said something since the execution went ahead. If you could show me instances where you think the Empire trembles?

She should shut up when Tullius tells her, so should every Empire supporting Jarl in Skyrim. General Tullius has been appointed as the Military Governor, he's acting Head of State. She isn't High Queen, not yet, so she will shut up when Tullius commands her to. The Legion has been called into action to settle the matter, they're in charge until the Rebellion has been sorted, while Skyrim is still a province of the Empire they abide by Imperial law.

Elisif is a Nord and Jarl of Solitude, I didn't realize one has to have a certain look to rule? Her looks have really nothing to do with how she is as a character. How do all the Jarls have a look? They're all different in terms of appearance.

I find Elisif to be a very strong woman, she saw her husband killed in front of her eyes, shouted down and slaughtered. Ulfric didn't even give him a fair duel, he killed a man while he was down and that speaks volumes of who Ulfric is.

 

[Adam Belmont]

The Empire hardly trembles, they're preparing for war. The Empire does however honor agreements struck, they abide by the terms of the treaty, not anything more. The fact the Empire is keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim by threatening their entire border with a mass of Legions, shows they aren't simply shaking in their boots. Considering Tullius must of told them to piss off at Helgan when they came to stop the execution of Ulfric, so Tullius must of said something since the execution went ahead. If you could show me instances where you think the Empire trembles?

She should shut up when Tullius tells her, so should every Empire supporting Jarl in Skyrim. General Tullius has been appointed as the Military Governor, he's acting Head of State. She isn't High Queen, not yet, so she will shut up when Tullius commands her to. The Legion has been called into action to settle the matter, they're in charge until the Rebellion has been sorted, while Skyrim is still a province of the Empire they abide by Imperial law.

Elisif is a Nord and Jarl of Solitude, I didn't realize one has to have a certain look to rule? Her looks have really nothing to do with how she is as a character. How do all the Jarls have a look? They're all different in terms of appearance.

I find Elisif to be a very strong woman, she saw her husband killed in front of her eyes, shouted down and slaughtered. Ulfric didn't even give him a fair duel, he killed a man while he was down and that speaks volumes of who Ulfric is.

the White-Gold Concordat is a perfect example at how coward the empire is.
And when I said "she doens't look like a nord woman or a jarl" I wasn't talking about her physical appearence, obviously. The entire discussion about her is not about her physical atributes but her personality, right?

 

[DrunkenMage]

the White-Gold Concordat is a perfect example at how coward the empire is.
And when I said "she doens't look like a nord woman or a jarl" I wasn't talking about her physical appearence, obviously. The entire discussion about her is not about her physical atributes but her personality, right?

So Hammerfell are cowards also? They have a treaty with the Thalmor. Peace to rebuild isn't cowardly, it is smart.

What is the personality of a Nord woman? Just curious on that one.

Coward and cowardice should not be applied to what the Empire did, they fought, they defeated the Aldmeri Dominion army in Cyrodiil keeping their General alive and hanging from the white-gold tower for thirty three days. They knew when to stop, when to know their own limits. Anyone who thinks the Empire should of kept fighting are very much wrong. One shouldn't confuse bravery with idiocy. Knowing when to fight and when not to fight are what makes a true leader. That is what Ulfric lacks. A good quote from the movie Gettysburg.

"General, soldiering has one great trap: to be a good solider you must love the army. To be a good commander, you must be willing to order the death of the thing you love. We do not fear our own death you and I. But there comes a time... We are never quite prepared for so many to die. Oh, we do expect the occasional empty chair. A salute to fallen comrades. But this war goes on and on and the men die and the price gets ever higher. We are prepared to lose some of us, but we are never prepared to lose all of us. And there is the great trap General."

 

[Adam Belmont]

So Hammerfell are cowards also?

What is the personality of a Nord woman? Just curious on that one.

I don't get your point. Hammerfell is free from the Empire exactly because they didn't agreed with the White-Gold Concordat, then they fought the Dominion and won. Hammerfell is free from the two scums of Tamriel. They are a fine example of how not be a coward!
Not only nord women but men, are strong-will characters and value honor, glory and family. I see her as a "imperialized nord".

 

[DrunkenMage]

I don't get your point. Hammerfell is free from the Empire exactly because they didn't agreed with the White-Gold Concordat, then they fought the Dominion and won. Hammerfell is free from the two scums of Tamriel. They are a fine example of how not be a coward!
Not only nord women but men, are strong-will characters and value honor, glory and family. I see her as a "imperialized nord".

Hammerfell formed a treaty with the Thalmor, which left their country devastated, because they fought on.
'In the end, the heroic Redguards fought the Aldmeri Dominion to a standstill, although the war lasted for five more years and left southern Hammerfell devastated.' - The Great War

'But the Redguards should not forget the great sacrifice of Imperial blood - Breton, Nord, and Cyrodilic - at the Battle of the Red Ring that weakened the Dominion enough to allow the eventual Second Treaty of Stros M'kai in 4E 180 and the withdrawal of Aldmeri forces from Hammerfell.' - The Great War

The Empire did the exact same thing, they rejected the treaty, fought and defeated the Aldmeri Dominion army in Cyrodiil, completely wiped them all out, they got a treaty with the Thalmor for a cease fire. Yet they're cowards and Hammerfell aren't?

Honor, glory and family? She is none of those? She doesn't have honor? Glory? Glory in what? War? There's no glory in war. It's just something they tell soldiers so they'll risk their lives." - Brunwulf Free-Winter. Value family? Did she not love her husband.

Ulfric doesn't have those traits either, not until his death. Unless of course murdering women and children old enough to carry a sword because they didn't aid you is to be honorable. Every official who worked for the Forsworn was put to the sword, even after they had surrendered. Native women were tortured to give up names of Forsworn fighters who had fled the city or were in the hills of the Reach. Anyone who lived in the city, Forsworn and Nord alike, were executed if they had not fought with Ulfric and his men when they breached the gates. "You are with us, or you are against Skyrim" was the message on Ulfric's lips as he ordered the deaths of shopkeepers, farmers, the elderly, and any child old enough to lift a sword that had failed in the call to fight with him. - Bear of Markarth

 

[Docta Corvina]

Not to mention, I think a fair number of Nord Legionnaires would strongly disagree that they don't value honor, glory and family simply because they honor their ties and vows to the Empire, which they believe is not mutually exclusive to those for their homeland.

I don't see Elisif especially failing in these things, myself.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Not to mention, I think a fair number of Nord Legionnaires would strongly disagree that they don't honor, glory and family simply because they honor their ties and vows to the Empire, which they believe is not mutually exclusive to those for their homeland.

I don't see Elisif especially failing in the things, myself.

Honor in keeping their word also, Ulfric's word is meaningless. He broke an undying oath. The so called true Nords never go back on their words and oaths. Elisif however has never broken her word. She is more Nord than the so called True Sons and Daughters of Skyrim. Just because she doesn't step on the battlefield doesn't make her any less of a leader. She is very strong in her own way.

 

[feliciano182]

I don't see Elisif especially failing in these things, myself.

The jury is out in matters like these.

IF that "High King" or "War With The Thalmor" DLC does come, it would be great to put her to the test and really see if she can do the job, as far as we know, The Empire is left with little choice in regards to who could become High King.

Of course, we don't know how this mechanic could work, but it's almost assuredly a contest between Elisif and Balgruuf.

 

[Adam Belmont]

Hammerfell formed a treaty with the Thalmor, which left their country devastated, because they fought on.
'In the end, the heroic Redguards fought the Aldmeri Dominion to a standstill, although the war lasted for five more years and left southern Hammerfell devastated.' - The Great War

'But the Redguards should not forget the great sacrifice of Imperial blood - Breton, Nord, and Cyrodilic - at the Battle of the Red Ring that weakened the Dominion enough to allow the eventual Second Treaty of Stros M'kai in 4E 180 and the withdrawal of Aldmeri forces from Hammerfell.' - The Great War

The Empire did the exact same thing, they rejected the treaty, fought and defeated the Aldmeri Dominion army in Cyrodiil, completely wiped them all out, they got a treaty with the Thalmor for a cease fire. Yet they're cowards and Hammerfell aren't?

Honor, glory and family? She is none of those? She doesn't have honor? Glory? Glory in what? War? There's no glory in war. It's just something they tell soldiers so they'll risk their lives." - Brunwulf Free-Winter. Value family? Did she not love her husband.

Ulfric doesn't have those traits either, not until his death. Unless of course murdering women and children old enough to carry a sword because they didn't aid you is to be honorable. Every official who worked for the Forsworn was put to the sword, even after they had surrendered. Native women were tortured to give up names of Forsworn fighters who had fled the city or were in the hills of the Reach. Anyone who lived in the city, Forsworn and Nord alike, were executed if they had not fought with Ulfric and his men when they breached the gates. "You are with us, or you are against Skyrim" was the message on Ulfric's lips as he ordered the deaths of shopkeepers, farmers, the elderly, and any child old enough to lift a sword that had failed in the call to fight with him. - Bear of Markarth

The diference between the treaty of Stros M'kai and the White-Gold Concordat is huge: The pact the Dominion made with Hammerfell was a loss for the Dominion only, but the White-Gold Concordat was a loss for the Empire, the only thing the empire achieved is a defer of their destruction.
About glory and honor, I don't have arguments for that, she's not a warrior, I can't say she's a coward in battle, but she surely isn't strong willed because who commands her court is Falk Firebeard or Gen. Tullius, as I said on my very first post, she's only a puppet.

Now tell me, in all my posts, where did I said I support the Stormcloaks? I don't know why are you talking about Ulfric here, I admire him for his courage to confront the Empire and the Thalmor but that's it, his reasons to be the high king aren't admirable.

 

[Raijin]

Honor in keeping their word also, Ulfric's word is meaningless. He broke an undying oath. The so called true Nords never go back on their words and oaths. Elisif however has never broken her word. She is more Nord than the so called True Sons and Daughters of Skyrim. Just because she doesn't step on the battlefield doesn't make her any less of a leader. She is very strong in her own way.

You keep mentioning Honor and keeping their word... If the Empire had true honor why would they shun their very own founder to the ground? To Ban Talos just like that? The Empire is Talos. If anything the Emperor showed his dishonor to Talos. The disbandment of the Blades was the last straw. I blame the Empire for turning this once great organization into what they are now. A couple of douche bags. This is what you get for "serving" the Emperor. You get plops on.

Having battlefield experience would help Elisif to become a better leader. I don't like the idea of the possibility of her being one of those damsel in distress type of queens... where everyone has to protect her all the time. I want her to be able to protect herself. I want her to fight for her country. I want her to be a true Nord.

As of now I would rather see Brina Merilis becoming the next High Queen of Skyrim than Elisif.

 

[DrunkenMage]

You keep mentioning Honor and keeping their word... If the Empire had true honor why would they shun their very own founder to the ground? To Ban Talos just like that? The Empire is Talos. If anything the Emperor showed his dishonor to Talos. The disbandment of the Blades was the last straw. I blame the Empire for turning this once great organization into what they are now. A couple of douche bags. This is what you get for "serving" the Emperor. You get pl*** on.

Having battlefield experience would help Elisif to become a better leader. I don't like the idea of the possibility of her being one of those damsel in distress type of queens... where everyone has to protect her all the time. I want her to be able to protect herself. I want her to fight for her country. I want her to be a true Nord.

As of now I would rather see Brina Merilis becoming the next High Queen of Skyrim than Elisif.

I won't go on about the Empire since this is about Elisif, so I don't want to lose topic focus.

How does having battlefield experience make a better leader? Being good at killing doesn't make you a leader, not unless you're a warlord or a tyrant conqueror. She is Elisif the Fair, Jarl of Solitude, not some battlefield General, not some blood lusting Tyrant. The fact you believe experience in battle makes a leader worries me, there is more to leadership than knowing how to kill.

 

[Raijin]

Ulfric doesn't have those traits either, not until his death. Unless of course murdering women and children old enough to carry a sword because they didn't aid you is to be honorable. Every official who worked for the Forsworn was put to the sword, even after they had surrendered. Native women were tortured to give up names of Forsworn fighters who had fled the city or were in the hills of the Reach. Anyone who lived in the city, Forsworn and Nord alike, were executed if they had not fought with Ulfric and his men when they breached the gates. "You are with us, or you are against Skyrim" was the message on Ulfric's lips as he ordered the deaths of shopkeepers, farmers, the elderly, and any child old enough to lift a sword that had failed in the call to fight with him. - Bear of Markarth

It's truly unfortunate that on that day children and women who were old enough to carry a sword were killed in the invasion of the city... which we all have Igmund to thank by the way Don't ever forget who hired Ulfric and his men to invade Markarth The fact is once a child gets his or her hands on a weapon they instantly become dangerous. They're carrying an object that is meant to kill people. While is sad... It's all fair game if they were coming at Ulfric and his men with their weapons drawn out in an aggressive way.

 

[jarif]

she does flirt with you.... free pussy with the high queen

 

[DrunkenMage]

It's truly unfortunate that on that day children and women who were old enough to carry a sword were killed in the invasion of the city... which we all have Igmund to thank by the way Don't ever forget who hired Ulfric and his men to invade Markarth The fact is once a child gets his or her hands on a weapon they instantly become dangerous. They're carrying an object that is meant to kill people. While is sad... It's all fair game if they were coming at Ulfric and his men with their weapons drawn out in an aggressive way.

They weren't holding swords, they were killed because they didn't pick up weapons. Igmund I do not like, but how was anyone to really know what Ulfric would do.

 

[Raijin]

I won't go on about the Empire since this is about Elisif, so I don't want to lose topic focus.

How does having battlefield experience make a better leader? Being good at killing doesn't make you a leader, not unless you're a warlord or a tyrant conqueror. She is Elisif the Fair, Jarl of Solitude, not some battlefield General, not some blood lusting Tyrant. The fact you believe experience in battle makes a leader worries me, there is more to leadership than knowing how to kill.

Are you serious? Experience is what makes you a better leader. Elisif is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to young to have this kind of responsibility under her shoulders. You can't just go from A to Z at such short amount of time. She recently became the Jarl... now shes going to be the Queen? That's an intensive moment right there. Skyrim needs experience, not a novice. Skyrim needs someone with high intelligence to rule. Unfortunately Elisif doesn't quite have this trait yet to be High Queen. Brina Merilis is much suitable for High queen than Elisif


Skyrim needs a leader very much like High King Foltest in the wicher 2

 

[Raijin]

They weren't holding swords, they were killed because they didn't pick up weapons. Igmund I do not like, but how was anyone to really know what Ulfric would do.

How do you know that they weren't holding swords?

 

[Rand Althor]

she does flirt with you.... free pussy with the high queen

That's hot.

 

[Rand Althor]

How do you know that they weren't holding swords?

How do you know they were?