• Welcome to Skyrim Forums! Register now to participate using the 'Sign Up' button on the right. You may now register with your Facebook or Steam account!

Gowsh

Old Fart
I'm not sure what it was about Elsif, but I got the impression of quiet strength.

Perhaps it was the posture and her calm, dignified dialog.

Evidence suggests otherwise, though. She clearly couldn't say "Boo!" to General Tullius.

Did she have much of a role in the negotiations to carve up Skyrim? I don't recall.

I do know that I displayed the Amulet of Mara for her on a couple occasions with no success.

Too soon? ;)
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
I find Elisif the only Jarl not corrupted by politics, she does care very deeply for the people. Her inexperience is what makes her great, she isn't like the others who are great liars. When I visited her for the first time she was going to dispatch an entire Legion to scour the hills and secure Dragonsbridge on pure speculation and superstition because one of those under her rule was worried. Her court advised her a more different approach is perhaps better since Nords are indeed very superstitious, but the gesture she portrayed was noted.

I don't think the strong in combat should always rule, there is more to strength than the strength of your arm. Great fighters don't make the best leaders. Some dislike her because they believe Tullius controls everything, Tullius isn't planning on staying in Skyrim forever, Legate Rikke is the only one who deals with the more political side after the civil war when she is put in charge of assisting the new Jarls. I much rather Legate Rikke than Galmar controlling half the Jarls of Skyrim.

I still don't see how many would see her as a Thalmor puppet, the Empire is certainly not a Thalmor puppet. Never met a puppet master seeking to destroy a puppet because the puppet is a threat. The only puppets I ever see are the Stormcloaks, completely unaware they're aiding the Thalmor plans, unaware they themselves are being given indirect Thalmor aid. The Empire are just pretending everything is all fine and dandy with the Thalmor, while they prepare for war.

"Most of the Legion is tied down on the border with the Aldmeri Dominion. The Emperor can't afford to risk weakening Cyrodiil's defenses. From the Imperial City, our war here is just a sideshow. An interlude before the main event against the Thalmor resumes." - General Tullius

Elisif is and will be a fine leader, certainly much better than Ulfric and his great plan to attack the Thalmor with no real idea of how to get there, with a bunch of magic hating people up against an all magic using army.
Axes vs the best archers in all of Tamriel, fireballs & lightning. Least the Legion employ battlemages. At least under Elisif's rule skyrim maintains more Nordic tradition, Ulfric's rule seems to disregard Nordic customs that date back to the first era so he can be High King. The Pact of Chieftains which certainly won't be of any use since Ulfric has Galmar to keep the Jarls in line, "Heh. Ulfric's put me in charge of keeping an eye on the new Jarls. You know, make sure they're generally following orders." - Galmar

So the real question comes down to, Rikke or Galmar.

"The General's put me in charge of assisting the new governments. I may understand things here in Skyrim better than the General, but I'm a soldier at heart, not a politician. But I'll do my best. This is the land of my birth, the land that shaped me. I'm proud to have any part in making it strong again." - Rikke

"Heh. Ulfric's put me in charge of keeping an eye on the new Jarls. You know, make sure they're generally following orders. Can't say I'm looking forward to that. But, I'll also be training men and women for their new armies. The Empire might send over a few Legionnaires to make sure we're serious, and of course, we'll be taking the fight to the elves soon enough. We'll need trained, disciplined and creative warriors ready for all that." - Galmar

Though under Ulfric's rule you can kill for a title then, going to see many High Kings and Jarls come and go. Don't want to pay your bounty? Kill the Jarl and become Jarl. Don't like the tax? Kill the King and become King. The Nord bandit's of Skyrim are going to love this. I think Tullius was right, without the Legion, Skyrim would fall into lawlessness and barbarism.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
Nope, it was murder.

First, imperial law does not allow for jarls to duel each other for positions of power, to kill a a Jarl is high treason, which is sentenced with death by decapitation, as we've all been witness to.

Second, Ulfric didn't go to Solitude to prove his worth as ruler of Skyrim by engaging Torygg in a lawful duel, he came with the intention of killing him to further his agenda, that's called malice aforethought.
As for Elisif, I like her, she's more mature than her age would seem to imply, but she clearly is reserved about matters of war, which is why she prefers to support herself on Tullius.

I would like to know where you're getting this information from because my sources indicates nothing like that.

Why would Torygg accepted Ulfrics duel if it was indeed against the law in the first place? Why didn't he just ordered his guards to arrest Ulfric on sight for breaking the law? Instead he went on and fought Ulfric, even know he had little to no chances at winning.... not sure if he could even defeat a small sized mudcrab. Torygg got what he truly deserved.. too bad he went to Sovngarde instead of Oblivion.

Generally speaking Elisif is a very nice NPC.. I give her props for that... But shes no High Queen material IMO. She should stick with being a Jarl for the next couple of decades to gain the experience and leadership that is needed to be High Queen. As of right now shes dumb... not realizing that theirs a blood sucking vampire right inside of her court that can kill her at any point, Her staffs acknowledges that theirs clearly something wrong with the Court wizard, which includes the jailers. Her steward does most of the work, and more importantly her Thanes and her personal chef has zero respect for her.

I'm sure the Thalmor has great appreciation for this woman... after all they can butter her up with lavish parties such as this one.
Elisif3_zps3ba004ab.jpg

Elisif2_zps2e02ddf7.jpg

Elisifparty_zps5fe381d1.jpg


Like what Ulfric said: "And damn the Moot! We should risk letting those milkdrinkers put Thorryg's woman on the throne? She'll hand Skyrim over to the elves on a silver plate."

He was indeed correct on that.
 

-Mir-

Professional milk-drinker
Slightly OT, sorry.

Have you noticed that, when you sit on the empty throne in Markarth, YOU become a "slouchybutt?"

I was ashamed of my char. :oops:
Yeah, I know! I test out every empty throne I see and if I end up "sitting like a jarl" I promptly get up in disgust and vow to never sit there again! xD
 

-Mir-

Professional milk-drinker
too bad he went to Sovngarde instead of Oblivion.
I agree with you that she definitely needs more experience before being anything like High Queen, but OOOOOH, dontcha think that's a bit harsh? :O
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
I would like to know where you're getting this information from because my sources indicates nothing like that.

Why would Torygg accepted Ulfrics duel if it was indeed against the law in the first place? Why didn't he just ordered his guards to arrest Ulfric on sight for breaking the law? Instead he went on and fought Ulfric, even know he had little to no chances at winning.... not sure if he could even defeat a small sized mudcrab. Torygg got what he truly deserved.. too bad he went to Sovngarde instead of Oblivion.

Generally speaking Elisif is a very nice NPC.. I give her props for that... But shes no High Queen material IMO. She should stick with being a Jarl for the next couple of decades to gain the experience and leadership that is needed to be High Queen. As of right now shes dumb... not realizing that theirs a blood sucking vampire right inside of her court that can kill her at any point, Her staffs acknowledges that theirs clearly something wrong with the Court wizard, which includes the jailers. Her steward does most of the work, and more importantly her Thanes and her personal chef has zero respect for her.

I'm sure the Thalmor has great appreciation for this woman... after all they can butter her up with lavish parties such as this one.
Elisif3_zps3ba004ab.jpg

Elisif2_zps2e02ddf7.jpg

Elisifparty_zps5fe381d1.jpg


Like what Ulfric said: "And damn the Moot! We should risk letting those milkdrinkers put Thorryg's woman on the throne? She'll hand Skyrim over to the elves on a silver plate."

He was indeed correct on that.

With that Thalmor bitch staring at me, I would be all smiles and love also. I'm sure she was advised on what she is and is not allowed to say at these parties to not in any way breach the Treaty while the Empire is not ready for war.
 

Docta Corvina

Well-Known Member
With that Thalmor bitch staring at me, I would be all smiles and love also. I'm sure she was advised on what she is and is not allowed to say at these parties to not in any way breach the Treaty while the Empire is not ready for war.

^ Pretty much THIS.

Let's just think for a moment what could have happened had Elisif been telling the Thalmor agents, "Bitch, I should cut you!" whenever she encountered them. Yeah, it might have been funny to watch. But the repercussions? Yeah, not so glorious.

All warfare is based on deception...this never fails to be true.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
^ Pretty much THIS.

Let's just think for a moment what could have happened had Elisif been telling the Thalmor agents, "Bitch, I should cut you!" whenever she encountered them. Yeah, it might have been funny to watch. But the repercussions? Yeah, not so glorious.

All warfare is based on deception...this never fails to be true.

A student of Sun Tzu, guess you might be more of a challenge in warfare on Rome than I suspected :p
 

Adam Belmont

Active Member
I don't see Elisif being deceptive in those pics, I see her licking the Thalmor boots. I don't think she's someone who is trying to gain the trust of the Thalmor Ambassador to put a knife in her back (figuratively speaking or literal) . Just like the Empire, she fears the Thalmor and will do anything to keep them in good mood. In my point of view, that's a coward's act.
 

LucasNL

Member
Why would Torygg accepted Ulfrics duel if it was indeed against the law in the first place? Why didn't he just ordered his guards to arrest Ulfric on sight for breaking the law? Instead he went on and fought Ulfric, even know he had little to no chances at winning.... not sure if he could even defeat a small sized mudcrab. Torygg got what he truly deserved.. too bad he went to Sovngarde instead of Oblivion.

He was indeed correct on that.

Go to the blue palace and talk to the court wizard Sybille Stentor, you will get this conversation:

Dragonborn: Were you there when high king Torygg died?

Sybille: I was, to my shame. the whole court was in attendance. I've seen much in my time, but that was a gruesome day.

Dragonborn: How did it happen?

Sybille: Ulfric showed up at the gates of solitude requesting an audience. We thought he was here to ask Toryyg to declare independence. By the time we realized Ulfric was here to challenge Torygg... it was already too late.

Dragonborn: Why was it too late?

Sybille: By nord custom, once the challenge was issued in court, Torygg had no choice than to accept. Had he not, Ulfric would have had cause to call a new moot and a new vote for high king. Torygg had some martial training, of course, but it mattered little that day. When Ulfric's lips parted, when he unleashed the power of the Thu'um... That shout, that ancient and terrible tongue... Ripped Torygg asunder.

Dragonborn: Why was Torygg killed?

Sybille: Because Ulfric needed a symbol. Someone he could defeat that represented the empire, the white-gold concordat, the banning of Talos worship. Torygg's father Istlod had held skyrim together for nearly twenty-five years. When he died, Torygg became that symbol.

Dragonborn: So the war started when Istlod died?

Sybille: No. Even after Istlod died, the moot voted to make Torygg high king of skyrim. But Ulfric was at that moot, continually talking about Skyrim's independence in ways just shy of treason. I don't think Ulfric knew how much Torygg respected him for that. If Ulfric had asked Torygg to directly stand up, to declare independance. Torygg might have done it.

Dragonborn: Why didn't Torygg ever declare independence?

Sybille: Because the dominion is a sleeping beast that skyrim can not slay alone. Because many nords are part of the imperial army even now. Because the food and resources we get from the empire are important for our people. Because even if we can't openly worship him, Talos the god was once Tiber Septim the man, and this is his empire. And Torygg wasn't ready to let that fall apart.



To all the stormcloak supporters: Skyrim needs the empire and the empire needs Skyrim. When the empire is weakened and without the nords to aid the legionnaires in battle, the Dominion can win the war with a hand on their back and two fingers in their nose. If you want to openly worship Talos again; join the imperial legion, help
the empire regain their strength, fight for the empire and win the war against aldmeri Dominion, go to a Talos shrine, live happily ever after.
 

Docta Corvina

Well-Known Member
I would never claim that Elisif is a war strategist by any stretch - it's certainly not her area of expertise. My point is that even she knows that she has to keep up "appearances", keep up the diplomatic visage, much in the way that Tullius very grudgingly does. Visible, palpable Imperial anger toward the Thalmor would only bolster the latter's cause, and now is not the time. I'm not a huge fan of Elisif generally speaking, but I give her enough credit to believe that she's doing what she thinks she must for her people at the current time. Who knows, maybe she is totally vapid and easily led by shiny things. But I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. For now.

The Empire as a whole, I think, is another matter as far as using a deceptive strategy against the Thalmor. But that's an entirely different thread. I don't wish to derail here. ;)
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
I don't see Elisif being deceptive in those pics, I see her licking the Thalmor boots. I don't think she's someone who is trying to gain the trust of the Thalmor Ambassador to put a knife in her back (figuratively speaking or literal) . Just like the Empire, she fears the Thalmor and will do anything to keep them in good mood. In my point of view, that's a coward's act.

The Thalmor should be something to be feared. They are extremely powerful and control a massive Empire of their own. How she acts at the Thalmor party is to be expected, you have to pretend to play nice at those functions, you can't act in a way that the Thalmor can use against you, the treaty is more important than an insult. So the Empire puts on the pretend smile, sometimes Tullius will be there and he will say that he would refuse but he doesn't want to breach the treaty in anyway. Thousands died for that treaty, thousands will die if that treaty is broken before the Empire is ready for war. "Most of the Legion is tied down on the border with the Aldmeri Dominion. The Emperor can't afford to risk weakening Cyrodiil's defenses. From the Imperial City, our war here is just a sideshow. An interlude before the main event against the Thalmor resumes."

Like what Ulfric said: "And damn the Moot! We should risk letting those milkdrinkers put Thorryg's woman on the throne? She'll hand Skyrim over to the elves on a silver plate."

He was indeed correct on that.

Elisif can hardly hand over Skyrim to the elves when it is the Empire that is keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim, so Ulfric is incorrect about that, geography come into play on both accounts. Ulfric and his Stormcloaks can't even reach the Aldmeri Dominion.
400px-TamrielMap.jpg
 

Finnsson

Prince of Denmark
Docta Corvina said:
But that's an entirely different thread. I don't wish to derail here. ;)

Let the Elisif appreciation continue then.

tumblr_m99t8rt6l91rdvujmo1_500.jpg

Sweet baby Talos, what happened to her fairness?!
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Oh good I can post again. Wasn't letting me for ages, bloody poem kept appearing.

To be honest I don't think it really matters if Elisif has no idea what she is doing, every Hold in Skyrim is largely independent... they probably pay the High Queen tax and swear fealty. Skyrim's government is more the Pact of Chieftains than the 'True High King' there hasn't been a true High King since the days of King Borgas of Winterhold, the last of the Ysgramor line of Kings. When he died and a civil war known as the War of Succession tore apart everything the Nords had, because a Moot decision wasn't liked. Fifty years of warfare between themselves, you would think Galmar and Ulfric should read their own history before telling you to read history.
 

Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
I agree with you that she definitely needs more experience before being anything like High Queen, but OOOOOH, dontcha think that's a bit harsh? :O

Not harsh at all. Sovngarde are suppose to be a place for true warriors like Legate Rikke, Galmar and Ulfric. Theirs no place for weaken down Kings who went down so easy. I mean come on.

With that Thalmor bitch staring at me, I would be all smiles and love also. I'm sure she was advised on what she is and is not allowed to say at these parties to not in any way breach the Treaty while the Empire is not ready for war.

Theirs no evidence indicating that she was advised by General Tullius what she should and should not say at the party. As of right now theirs just not enough evidence to back it up.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Theirs no evidence indicating that she was advised by General Tullius what she should and should not say at the party. As of right now theirs just not enough evidence to back it up.

No one mentioned General Tullius? She has her own Court, she is the Jarl of Solitude, she is going to a Thalmor party not to battle, though in politics I suppose that is battle. But the only advice I can see Tullius giving her is if she wants to know warfare tactics.

Stewards advise their Jarls. The evidence on that is well in every Hold, you see Stewards offering advice.

General Tullius = The Legion. The Legion = The Military. Stop confusing Empire with Legion. That is like saying the Mayor of New York gets advice from the General of the Army on what to do at a party.
 
Top