Do the Divines exist?

[PoisonPen]

We've been told since Daggerfall that the imperial gods don't get involved in mortal affairs. Unlike the Daedra, who show up at the drop of their name and start raining dogs on people, the Aedra take a no-hands approach even to their most fervent worshippers. In Morrowind we get to meet the Tribunal, who have the power of gods, and they have never met the Aedra. In Oblivion, worshippers at the Daedra shrines complain that they tried the temples, and they were useless -- as opposed, presumably, to the Daedra, who are always running contests or hiding ancient artifacts behind bushes or chatting amiably with anyone who wanders by. It's gotten me to wondering whether the gods exist at all.

Okay, we have a few pieces of evidence for the gods. Their wayshrines seem to work in the Cyrodiil. Their idols in Skyrim and Morrowind cure disease and give blessings.

Spoiler

And in Morrowind we meet Wolf, an avatar of Talos.

But we already know that the Daedra exist, and that they like to mess with mortals. Is it possible that the "gods" are actually just the Daedra? Consider, the Daedra gain power from worship. By becoming their own competition, the Daedra corner the market: even if you don't worship the Daedra, you worship the Daedra. And it's exactly the sort of sadistic trick the Daedra like to pull. It could easily be the Daedra empowering all the wayshrines and temples and priests of the Aedra, snickering up their sleeves as they pull another one over the stupid mortals.

Do we actually get evidence of the imperial gods' existence anywhere in any canon source?

 

[VarynD33]

I think you have an interesting theory, but yes the 9 Divines do exist in the Elder scrolls series. Like you said, the amulets and shrines DO give you blessings. In Oblivion though, they talk about the Amulet of Kings, a necklace that was said to be forged from Akatosh's own blood and given to St Alessia long ago. Only blood relatives of Alessia could wear the amulet, and it has been passed down through generations of the Septims. In Oblivion, Martin Septim (Uriel VII's son) crushes the amulet which binded his blood with the gods and transforms himself into the avatar of Akatosh, a golden flaming dragon. In this form he battled Mehrunes Dagon and sealed him away in Oblivion forever.
I think that the divines don't usually communicate with mortals physically, but through dreams and stuff like that.
Hope that helped!

​

 

[Mr1cammando]

As a player who has only ever fully played Skyrim, I've always considered the Divines indisputable. For example, if the Divines were not real, why go to all the trouble of giving yourself an alternate ego who stands against everything you exist to do, when you could have said, "Worship me or be burned into crispy Argonian steak."?

 

[Stereofanic]

Alduin is firstborn of Akatosh who also proved real at the end of oblivion

 

[Mr1cammando]

Alduin is firstborn of Akatosh who also proved real at the end of oblivion

That claim was never proven, it was more of a claim to power from Alduin. However, should it prove true, who was Alduins mother?

Plot twist.

 

[bulbaquil]

Yes. Mankar Camoran lied. The evidence is an Oblivion spoiler and will be marked as such.

Spoiler

Evidence: If the Aedra did not exist, then the ritual used to get into Mankar Camoran's Paradise, which required the blood of an (Aedric) god as well as one of a Daedra, would not have worked. It did work, therefore the Aedra exist. Q.E.D.

Incidentally, as the god whose blood was used happened to be Talos, this also has the side effect of proving the Thalmor wrong.

 

[TheDovahkiin]

Wasn't the Oblivion Crisis ended when Akatosh assumed his Avatar and defeated one of the Daedra?

 

[TuGaWaR]

OP has a point. The 'Gods' are there, but they may not be 'Gods'.

I don't think the question is if the Nine exist, rather are the gods or not. As OP pointed out, it's entirely possible that the Devines are just Daedra.

 

[Stereofanic]

That claim was never proven, it was more of a claim to power from Alduin. However, should it prove true, who was Alduins mother?

Plot twist.

Mother? If Akatosh is a god who says a mother is needed, he could simply create a living being such as Alduin.

Anyway the oblivion ending proves he is indeed real, and besides i'm sure there is more evidence, i just cant think of it

 

[Stereofanic]

Wasn't the Oblivion Crisis ended when Akatosh assumed his Avatar and defeated one of the Daedra?

Yes, my point

 

[Steadyeddie211]

We've been told since Daggerfall that the imperial gods don't get involved in mortal affairs. Unlike the Daedra, who show up at the drop of their name and start raining dogs on people, the Aedra take a no-hands approach even to their most fervent worshippers. In Morrowind we get to meet the Tribunal, who have the power of gods, and they have never met the Aedra. In Oblivion, worshippers at the Daedra shrines complain that they tried the temples, and they were useless -- as opposed, presumably, to the Daedra, who are always running contests or hiding ancient artifacts behind bushes or chatting amiably with anyone who wanders by. It's gotten me to wondering whether the gods exist at all.

Okay, we have a few pieces of evidence for the gods. Their wayshrines seem to work in the Cyrodiil. Their idols in Skyrim and Morrowind cure disease and give blessings.

Spoiler

And in Morrowind we meet Wolf, an avatar of Talos.

But we already know that the Daedra exist, and that they like to mess with mortals. Is it possible that the "gods" are actually just the Daedra? Consider, the Daedra gain power from worship. By becoming their own competition, the Daedra corner the market: even if you don't worship the Daedra, you worship the Daedra. And it's exactly the sort of sadistic trick the Daedra like to pull. It could easily be the Daedra empowering all the wayshrines and temples and priests of the Aedra, snickering up their sleeves as they pull another one over the stupid mortals.

Do we actually get evidence of the imperial gods' existence anywhere in any canon source?

Your question reminds me a lot of real life religion. I'm seeing a lot of parallels between the Divines and God from Christianity, the Daedra and Demons. They all match up with each other as their behavior is very similar. However, there is far more proof in the Elder Scrolls fiction that the gods do exist than there is proof in actual religion. Other people before me have already shown you the evidence that the gods are existent in the Elder Scrolls universe. Even if the Divine are actually Daedra playing as gods, which could explain why Meridia seems to behave godly from what I've seen of her, they are still to be considered gods because they're worshiped as such. Very interesting though.

 

[Writes-Many-Posts]

Don't forget about Florentius Baenius, his talking with Arkay may be very questionable, but he comes across a lot of information that had to be reached through unconventional methods. Their amulets have respective powers, but the shrines aren't valid since the Daedra also have those. But you can also consider the different perspectives about the Aedra and Daedra, many of them are evil, while for example Mara, Dibella or Kynareth defend a good perspective love, dibellan arts, good fortune, while Daedra act mostly to command mortals like their mindless minions (Vaermina was a good example of this, but Boethiah said exactly the opposite)

 

[Mr1cammando]

The Daedra making up the Aedra seems pretty unlikely, but that's what the Daedra want us to think.

 

[Nord Warrior]

Has anybody played the DLC on Oblivion where you become a knight of the 9?. Nuff said.

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

There's actually a theory in lore that Meridia is a minor Aedra that was cast out for consorting with Daedric beings.

 

[LotusEater]

There's actually a theory in lore that Meridia is a minor Aedra that was cast out for consorting with Daedric beings.

Funny you say that. Meridia never felt Daedric to me. Even on my first playthrough I thought that. The name doesn't even sound Daedric to me, if that makes any sense.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

Funny you say that. Meridia never felt Daedric to me. Even on my first playthrough I thought that. The name doesn't even sound Daedric to me, if that makes any sense.

And she's one bossy beeatch too!

 

[LotusEater]

And she's one bossy beeatch too!

Ya. I like her. She's about the only Daedric anything I would be proud to serve.

 

[Daelon DuLac]

Ya. I like her. She's about the only Daedric anything I would be proud to serve.

At least she doesn't keep bothering you. Do the dead, get the sword and leave it at that. No threats, no backlash, no pain and no murders (well, other than the necromancer, of course - but he had it comin').

 

[FullmetalHeart20]

At least she doesn't keep bothering you. Do the dead, get the sword and leave it at that. No threats, no backlash, no pain and no murders (well, other than the necromancer, of course - but he had it comin').

Really, I prefer Azura. You literally put your soul in her hands, and she rewards your faith ^_^
This is kinda off topic. Isn't it?