Sexual violence redux

[Stephen Daidalus]

In a recent thread that discussed victim blaming, offensive protesting, and the role of men in combating sexual violence, some women were enraged by the idea that they might need male assistance in confronting issues of violence against physically more vulnerable people.

I asserted, in a very blunt and exaggerated way, that the proper response to a man with a sign that told women they deserved to be raped was a fist in the face. Most people disagreed, sometimes vehemently so. I'm not generally an advocate of violence, so I get that response. On the other hand, I do not believe that ignoring such protests or ignoring any such speech in daily life is at all a useful response. I don't think I communicated that very adroitly, to say the least. But this video does a good job of it. It's a 19 minute long TED talk, but worth watching.

"In the end, what will hurt the most is not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." -- Martin Luther King

 

[Mookie]

In a recent thread that discussed victim blaming, offensive protesting, and the role of men in combating sexual violence, some women were enraged by the idea that they might need male assistance in confronting issues of violence against physically more vulnerable people.

I asserted, in a very blunt and exaggerated way, that the proper response to a man with a sign that told women they deserved to be raped was a fist in the face. Most people disagreed, sometimes vehemently so. I'm not generally an advocate of violence, so I get that response. On the other hand, I do not believe that ignoring such protests or ignoring any such speech in daily life is at all a useful response. I don't think I communicated that very adroitly, to say the least. But this video does a good job of it. It's a 19 minute long TED talk, but worth watching.

"In the end, what will hurt the most is not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends." -- Martin Luther King

Why is that a proper response?

 

[Stephen Daidalus]

Why is that a proper response?

It's more of a tongue-in-cheek response. The question that was posed in the thread was, "Do women who dress provocatively deserve to be raped?" The answer to that question is so utterly obvious that you cannot really take the question seriously. As a result, I don't think you should take the answers literally either.

 

[Mookie]

It's more of a tongue-in-cheek response. The question that was posed in the thread was, "Do women who dress provocatively deserve to be raped?" The answer to that question is so utterly obvious that you cannot really take the question seriously. As a result, I don't think you should take the answers literally either.

So why open up a new thread then?

 

[Stephen Daidalus]

So why open up a new thread then?

To reframe the question in a less patently offensive way, and thereby open up the possibility for more mature and civilized discussion of the issues.

Mostly, I hoped people would actually take the time to watch the video and discuss that.

 

[Docta Corvina]

Interesting video. I really liked that he took the time to emphasize that the problem of violence (sexual et al.) is a problem facing men as victims also. I feel like that aspect often gets glossed over and unfortunately so. I think placing emphasis on the fact that it's a problem that affects both genders adversely is a smart and honest approach. And I think that given enough time, it will bear out positive change.

 

[Stephen Daidalus]

Interesting video. I really liked that he took the time to emphasize that the problem of violence (sexual et al.) is a problem facing men as victims also. I feel like that aspect often gets glossed over and unfortunately so. I think placing emphasis on the fact that it's a problem that affects both genders adversely is a smart and honest approach. And I think that given enough time, it will bear out positive change.

However, I don't think time is enough, as we see that despite all the advances in gender equality, sexual violence -- mostly perpetrated by men -- remains unabated. It takes a bit more of an aggressive stance, I think. Not a violent stance (I see how unpopular that is). But a strong one.

 

[Docta Corvina]

However, I don't think time is enough, as we see that despite all the advances in gender equality, sexual violence -- mostly perpetrated by men -- remains unabated. It takes a bit more of an aggressive stance, I think. Not a violent stance (I see how unpopular that is). But a strong one.

It's true that time is not enough in such things. Hell, even after all of these years with the Jim Crow era in the rear view mirror here in the States, there's still racism and racist violence. Barack Obama is hardly proof of a post-racist world (LOL, btw). If anything, the sentiments are louder than they have ever been in recent memory.

It will take more than time. It will take a stronger stance, yes. Navigating such a stance/response may well be the quandary.

 

[OrexxerO]

Please watch this video. It is talking about rape and why its so bad and should not be in games like killing is with such prevalence. I think it has relevance to this topic overall and this guy puts it very well.

Barack Obama is hardly proof of a post-racist world (LOL, btw). If anything, the sentiments are louder than they have ever been in recent memory.

Nowadays your a racist if you don't agree with obama some people claim.


http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/5972-Rape-vs-Murder

 

[Docta Corvina]

Nowadays your a racist if you don't agree with obama some people claim.

Erm, I think that's equally stupid, to be honest. To say that we can't disagree with someone because of their race is just...mind-boggling.

But I also don't think that means that there's no longer such a thing as racism or race-based objection to Obama on the part of some people, though. It is a real thing. But no, I agree, dissension does not equal racial hatred. Nor should it.

 

[Stephen Daidalus]

Please watch this video. It is talking about rape and why its so bad and should not be in games like killing is with such prevalence. I think it has relevance to this topic overall and this guy puts it very well.



Nowadays your a racist if you don't agree with obama some people claim.


http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/5972-Rape-vs-Murder

Excellent video.

"Nobody blames a murder victim for having too much life, while there are plenty of folks willing to blame a rape victim for having too much sex."

 

[OrexxerO]

Erm, I think that's equally stupid, to be honest. To say that we can't agree with someone because of their race is just...mind-boggling.

Yeah, it is equally stupid, while there still are "racist" people in this country, and by racist in this country (the U.S.) that inadvertantly means your white and hate other races usually. We have a huge double standard where say, a Black person can call a white person racial slurs and it really means nothing, but yet, a white person says "I'm a racist asshole who doesn't understand boundaries, respect, or basic human decency and I need help" all hell breaks loose. The pendulum kind of swung far after the civil rights movements...too far. We have all black colleges, a magazine for black people called "ebony magazine" what if I created a "ivory" magazine? RACIST! . Trust me, this exists. Ironically its racist for minorities to presume that if your white, your racist.....oh this country.

 

[Stephen Daidalus]

Yeah, it is equally stupid, while there still are "racist" people in this country, and by racist in this country (the U.S.) that inadvertantly means your white and hate other races usually. We have a huge double standard where say, a Black person can call a white person racial slurs and it really means nothing, but yet, a white person says "I'm a racist asshole who doesn't understand boundaries, respect, or basic human decency and I need help" all hell breaks loose. The pendulum kind of swung far after the civil rights movements...too far. We have all black colleges, a magazine for black people called "ebony magazine" what if I created a "ivory" magazine? RACIST! . Trust me, this exists. Ironically its racist for minorities to presume that if your white, your racist.....oh this country.

Some members of all races exhibit racism. Just as some members of all sexes exhibit sexism.

However, that does not diminish the fact that when members of the dominant and most privileged race or sex exhibit racism or sexism, the effects are that much more devastating simply because they have so much more power. Therefore, we tend to focus on those more, and in my opinion, rightly so.

 

[OrexxerO]

Understood Stephen, but the white race in the United States has long since ceased to be the "dominant" and "most privileged" in the U.S.. Yet my race still carries the stigma of being the only "racist" in the U.S.. I realize every race has racism, but in the U.S. only whites are capable of it it really seems like. And nowdays when our president is part African American, plenty of highly paid U.S. athletes are African American or other races for that matter, its time to let that go. Im not racist at all, yet I bet some people of other races would auto-stereotype me as racist simply for being white.

 

[Stephen Daidalus]

Understood Stephen, but the white race in the United States has long since ceased to be the "dominant" and "most privileged" in the U.S..

I respectfully but strongly disagree.

"As of 2009, the median weekly wage for African American and Hispanic workers was about 65 percent and 61 percent that of White workers, respectively."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_wage_gap_in_the_United_States

"Four percent of U.S. black males were in jail or prison last year, compared to 1.7 percent of Hispanic males and .7 percent of white males. In other words, black males were locked up at almost six times the rate of their white counterparts."

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5009270&page=1

"African Americans currently make up about 13% of the US population, but have historically been underrepresented in Congress. In the 111th Congress, 42 members (9.5%) of the House were African American. As of 2010, there was one African-American serving in the Senate."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Members_of_the_111th_United_States_Congress

 

[OrexxerO]

Im not talking necessarily about the "statistics" of it. Im talking about the active culture here. Although I do understand and have seen those numbers Stephen what is causing them? Because it really isn't white "racism" and persecution of people anymore.....white people are terrified of getting sued because they may turn people away even if they were racist and wanted to.

 

[Stephen Daidalus]

Im not talking necessarily about the "statistics" of it. Im talking about the active culture here. Although I do understand and have seen those numbers Stephen what is causing them? Because it really isn't white "racism" and persecution of people anymore.....white people are terrified of getting sued because they may turn people away even if they were racist and wanted to.

Really? You believe that? You, who have no experience of being black, are willing to say that such things aren't happening? How can you know?

What other explanation do you have for those stats that doesn't posit that black people are somehow not as skilled, not as capable of being educated, not as intelligent, not as capable of not committing crimes as white people?

 

[OrexxerO]

Really? You believe that? You, who have no experience of being black, are willing to say that such things aren't happening? How can you know?

Because if such things were happening so much, why is our media, which jumps on that kind of thing constantly, not be reporting it? Fox new sure, but what about the ultra-liberal news agencies? I am not seeing it, and it would be reported the hell out of I would think, why wouldn't it be? And I can tell you I have ran into situations where a Black guy has totally antagonized me and basically hoped I said something racist because its so much worse for a white person to then a Black guy towards a white guy.

What other explanation do you have for those stats that doesn't posit that black people are somehow not as skilled, not as educated, not as intelligent, not as capable of not committing crimes as white people?

I don't know, I was sincerely asking. As I don't think its active white racism causing it anymore. In the past? Oh yes, no doubt, now? I think thats just a excuse to say.

 

[Stephen Daidalus]

Because if such things were happening so much, why is our media, which jumps on that kind of thing constantly, not be reporting it? Fox new sure, but what about the ultra-liberal news agencies? I am not seeing it, and it would be reported the hell out of I would think, why wouldn't it be? And I can tell you I have ran into situations where a Black guy has totally antagonized me and basically hoped I said something racist because its so much worse for a white person to then a Black guy towards a white guy.

Why isn't it reported? Because it is so immensely difficult to PROVE it. And if you can't prove it, asserting it in specific instances is libel. Libel suits against media are nasty. They really need to avoid them.

I don't know, I was sincerely asking. As I don't think its active white racism causing it anymore. In the past? Oh yes, no doubt, now? I think thats just a excuse to say.

Well, I think perhaps it would be useful to ask and investigate rather than assume, don't you? Because if it's not systemic racism, what is it?

Surely you care. And if you care, it's important to find out.

 

[OrexxerO]

I would submit that at least in some areas, (like los angeles) a prime reason why more African American men are in jail then white men is because in black communities (in LA as an example) gangs are a big part of their culture, specifically the bloods and crypts, most men at least in LA that are black are probably in jail on a drug or gang related charge.....where as while there are gangs with white members (white supremacists and all that) its not quite as ingrained in the white culture overall I would say....not in the U.S. at least.