Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

Whiterun isn't a "win win" for Ulfric, he could very well bypass it and focus his efforts in taking the other imperial holds, specially given how The Empire is not as overzealous to have Whiterun on their side as much as Ulfric is, the latter simply won't tolerate dissenters, he wants to be High King at any cost and he will be damn sure that not a single Jarl opposes him, that is really the only reason why Ulfric wants to invade Whiterun and remove Balgruuf as Jarl.

Aside from that, anyone has the right to claim neutrality, which is exactly what Balgruuf did throughout the Civil War, unlike Ulfric, he was actually more interested in doing his job as ruler of a hold and provide and care for his citizens' well-being.

In other words:

This dude for High King of Skyrim !

It very much was a win win. And he could have very well bypassed it. That is not in question. Balgruuf makes it very clear he is displeased with Ulfric if questioned. I don't remember the exact quotes so forgive inaccuracies!

 

[DrunkenMage]

It very much was a win win. And he could have very well bypassed it. That is not in question. Balgruuf makes it very clear he is displeased with Ulfric if questioned. I don't remember the exact quotes so forgive inaccuracies!

Many Jarls are displeased with Ulfric. Even a Stormcloak supporting Jarl, who says that while she supports the Stormcloaks, she has little faith in Ulfric himself.

Galmar: "The Jarls are upset. They don't all support you."
Ulfric: "Damn the Jarls."

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

Many Jarls are displeased with Ulfric. Even a Stormcloak supporting Jarl, who says that while she supports the Stormcloaks, she has little faith in Ulfric himself.

Galmar: "The Jarls are upset. They don't all support you."
Ulfric: "Damn the Jarls."

They call it a Civil War for a reason

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

No man has ever been completely popular while fulfilling his agenda.

 

[feliciano182]

They call it a Civil War for a reason

Yeah but the fact that he conveniently dismisses what is essentially The Moot is telling of who he really is, when things suit him and are great for him, like the ability to murder the High King, then he is being a "true nord", but when the jarls jeopardize his claim as ruler of Skyrim, then The Moot sucks.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

Yeah but the fact that he conveniently dismisses what is essentially The Moot is telling of who he really is, when things suit him and are great for him, like the ability to murder the High King, then he is being a "true nord", but when The Moot, another important tradition in Skyrim, jeopardizes his claim for the governance of the Skyrim, then The Moot sucks.

That would suck for anyone. Before the Civil War it was a sorta even vote though. And most of those words were words of confidence to a friend, as a drunk man calls out his government.

 

[DrunkenMage]

They call it a Civil War for a reason

Many people forget that it is a Civil war. They believe it is Nords vs Imperials, that pushing out the Imperials is what Nords want. Except fail to realise more than half of the 'Imperial' soldiers you see walking around are Nords. The Legion does not seek occupation, after the battle for Whiterun the Legionnaires leave, their only goal was to defend not control. Ulfric himself forced Whiterun to support the Empire.

Funny how Ulfric likes to talk of the moot in his speech, but only once he controls it and has the Jarls on a leash.

Galmar: "I still say you should take them all out like you did Deadking Torygg."
Ulfric: "Torygg was merely a message to the other Jarls. Whoever we replace them with will need the support of our armies."

He is saying there that the Jarls will need his army to rule, if they go against him in the moot they will lose the support of his army. Ulfric is the one holding back the Moot until his army controls the land.

Galmar: "The Jarls are upset. They don't all support you."
Ulfric: "Damn the Jarls."
Galmar: "They demand the Moot."
Ulfric: "And damn the Moot! We should risk letting those milkdrinkers put Torygg's woman on the throne?
She'll hand Skyrim over to the elves on a silver plate."

Damn the Moot he says... which is an ancient Nordic tradition, doesn't he fight to bring back Nordic tradition and try to pretend he is using the moot.

Ulfric: "But more than that, it was you who fought for Skyrim, for our right to fight our own battles... To return to our glory and traditions, to determine our own future!"

Ulfric: "And it is for these reasons that I cannot accept the mantle of "High King." Not until the Moot declares that title should adorn my shoulders will I accept it."

Ulfric: "How'd I do?"
Galmar: "Eh, not so bad. Nice touch about the High King."
Ulfric: "Thank you, I thought so, too."
Galmar: "It's a foregone conclusion, you know."
Ulfric: "Oh, I know."

Ulfric only cares about tradition when it suits him.

 

[feliciano182]

The Legion does not seek occupation, after the battle for Whiterun the Legionnaires leave, their only goal was to defend not control. Ulfric himself forced Whiterun to support the Empire.

Is this true though ? Doesn't Quentin Cipius remain in Dragonsreach ?

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

Many people forget that it is a Civil war. They believe it is Nords vs Imperials, that pushing out the Imperials is what Nords want. Except fail to realise more than half of the 'Imperial' soldiers you see walking around are Nords. The Legion does not seek occupation, after the battle for Whiterun the Legionnaires leave, their only goal was to defend not control. Ulfric himself forced Whiterun to support the Empire.

Funny how Ulfric likes to talk of the moot in his speech, but only once he controls it and has the Jarls on a leash.

Galmar: "I still say you should take them all out like you did Deadking Torygg."
Ulfric: "Torygg was merely a message to the other Jarls. Whoever we replace them with will need the support of our armies."

He is saying there that the Jarls will need his army to rule, if they go against him in the moot they will lose the support of his army. Ulfric is the one holding back the Moot until his army controls the land.

Galmar: "The Jarls are upset. They don't all support you."
Ulfric: "Damn the Jarls."
Galmar: "They demand the Moot."
Ulfric: "And damn the Moot! We should risk letting those milkdrinkers put Torygg's woman on the throne?
She'll hand Skyrim over to the elves on a silver plate."

Damn the Moot he says... which is an ancient Nordic tradition, doesn't he fight to bring back Nordic tradition and try to pretend he is using the moot.

Ulfric: "But more than that, it was you who fought for Skyrim, for our right to fight our own battles... To return to our glory and traditions, to determine our own future!"

Ulfric: "And it is for these reasons that I cannot accept the mantle of "High King." Not until the Moot declares that title should adorn my shoulders will I accept it."

Ulfric: "How'd I do?"
Galmar: "Eh, not so bad. Nice touch about the High King."
Ulfric: "Thank you, I thought so, too."
Galmar: "It's a foregone conclusion, you know."
Ulfric: "Oh, I know."

Ulfric only cares about tradition when it suits him.

I never denied it was a battle for control on the Stormcloak side. That is kind of the main goal! Take control of Skyrim from the EMPIRE. Many revolutions were not supported by the majority. Also, he is trying to bring back the ancient traditions and improve upon them. He used them to get the ball rolling. He is cunning, as I said. You said yourself old traditions were bad, so why bother with that line? His most likely intention is to change them.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Is this true though ? Doesn't Quentin Cipius remain in Dragonsreach ?

He remains but his soldiers leave.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

He remains but his soldiers leave.

That fact is irrelevant as Balgruuf sides with them so they are garunteed at least indirect control and support.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I never denied it was a battle for control on the Stormcloak side. That is kind of the main goal! Take control of Skyrim from the EMPIRE. Many revolutions were not supported by the majority. Also, he is trying to bring back the ancient traditions and improve upon them. He used them to get the ball rolling. He is cunning, as I said. You said yourself old traditions were bad, so why bother with that line? His most likely intention is to change them.

Except that after a Stormcloak take over it only is better for Nords, other races no. Many are faced with running out of business and will have to leave. The alchemist in Whiterun who has lived in Skyrim for 20 or more years will have to close down because of her race.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

Except that after a Stormcloak take over it only is better for Nords, other races no. Many are faced with running out of business and will have to leave. The alchemist in Whiterun who has lived in Skyrim for 20 or more years will have to close down because of her race.

That is no garuntee! I apologize if she does get kicked out if you fight on the SC side, I have never played their perspective out...

 

[DrunkenMage]

That fact is irrelevant as Balgruuf sides with them so they are garunteed at least indirect control and support.

It is very relevant as Balgruuf sides with them after facing attack, the fact the Legionnaires leave instead of taking over very much shows the Legions intentions. There could be many reasons he remains, he could be overseeing the repair of Whiterun from the damage which the Empire would no doubt pay for.

Balgruuf: "The outer walls are strong. If we can hold them there..."
Quentin: "They have catapults."
Balgruuf: "Damnit. Where'd they get catapults? The city walls are already falling apart as it is."
Quentin: "My scouts tell me they're loading them with fire."
Balgruuf: "So, he wants to take my city, walls intact."
Quentin: "The men will be fighting in flames."
Balgruuf: "My men are fearless. It's the Imperial milk drinkers I'm worried about."
Quentin: "If you prefer I took my men and left..."
Balgruuf: "No. Of course not. Just - don't let me down Cipius. We'll need to set up water brigades to combat the flames."
Quentin: "Already taken care of."
Balgruuf: "You Imperials are efficient, I'll give you that. How long until they arrive?"

 

[DrunkenMage]

That is no garuntee! I apologize if she does get kicked out if you fight on the SC side, I have never played their perspective out...

They don't buy from her because of her race. They think she'll poison them, so she talks about closing down and moving back to Cyrodiil.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

They don't buy from her because of her race. They think she'll poison them, so she talks about closing down and moving back to Cyrodiil.

THAT'S BULLSHI*. NOT ON MY WATCH! But like I said, it is no garuntee.

 

[DrunkenMage]

THAT'S BULLSHI*. NOT ON MY WATCH! But like I said, it is no garuntee.

The lady at the forge in Whiterun next to the gate, is getting limited business because of her race also. If she wasn't married to the Nord she'd have no business. "I do less business than I used to. The Stormcloaks don't like buying from anyone that isn't a Nord. If I wasn't married to Ulfberth, I'd be out of business.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

The lady at the forge in Whiterun next to the gate, is getting limited business because of her race also. If she wasn't married to the Nord she'd have no business. "I do less business than I used to. The Stormcloaks don't like buying from anyone that isn't a Nord. If I wasn't married to Ulfberth, I'd be out of business.

If I remembered how to make the angry face, I would be making it!!! IF ULFRIC DISAPPOINT ME HE DIES. But I'm not counting him out yet. Nothing is certain, and for now he is tolerant of it, but a few black eyes can fix his racist problems.

 

[DrunkenMage]

If I remembered how to make the angry face, I would be making it!!! IF ULFRIC DISAPPOINT ME HE DIES. But I'm not counting him out yet. Nothing is certain, and for now he is tolerant of it, but a few black eyes can fix his racist problems.

Not counting their dislike for Mages, use of magic and they hate the College of Winterhold.

I'd really love to see the Stormcloak army attack the Aldmeri Dominion who are magic users... it'd be a slaughter. At least the Legion employs Battlemages.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

Not counting their dislike for Mages, use of magic and they hate the College of Winterhold.

I'd really love to see the Stormcloak army attack the Aldmeri Dominion who are magic users... it'd be a slaughter. At least the Legion employs Battlemages.

Hopefully in a future dlc we can influence more aspects about the future events. I'd love to set the record straight with the SC atm... but so far this is the only point you have been able to stump me on