Ulfric said that He challenged Torygg in the traditional way, and he accepted it. Now all you Imperial fanatics on this thread can please show me a lore regarding to Nordic traditions indicating that using the Thu'um is considered cheating?
Had Torygg used the Thu'um to kill Ulfric would you view him as a murderer? Or would you view this mighty High King as a strong hero over his victory?
No one has ever said Ulfric cheated. Nordic Tradition is not law. Many who call the duel dishonorable is because Ulfric shouted at the High King in a duel. It was through magic was Ulfric able to defeat Torygg, not through the blade. Nordic culture is heavily surrounding that of a warrior code, honor in battle. Also it isn't about being Imperial fanatics, this topic was about Nords and their views on why half of Skyrim claims murder. From an Imperial standpoint, Ulfric could have given Torygg a little scratch and we'd cut off his head. Thu'um or no Thu'um doesn't matter to the Imperials, we were discussing why many Nords would see it as dishonorable.
It isn't exactly honorable to defeat someone using the Thu'um, especially those who don't have the ability to defend against it. Ulfric's entire "How can a King defend Skyrim when he can't defend himself" is hardly fitting when you're nearly torn to pieces by the Thu'um.
Though we could say the exact same thing against Ulfric, how can he hope to defend Skyrim when he gets captured and standing near an execution block so easily. Torygg faced Ulfric fearlessly, to discredit him further is an insult. Torygg may have been new to being High King but he faced Ulfric like any true Nord.
Are the Greybeards part of the Nordic tradition? Do they make up all the rules? Thu'um for normal mortals are not meant for worship but a tool to use during battle. Paarthurnax taught Gormlaith Golden-Hilt, Hakon One-Eye and Felldir the Old to use the tongue, not to worship him but to to turn the tide in the Dragon War.
No Raijin... Greybeards aren't a part of Nordic tradition... they're Elvish. Of course they're part of Nordic tradition. Paarthurnax taught the Mortals and the Goddess Kyne gifted them with the ability to use the Thu'um.
The Way of the Voice deems that the Thu'um is to be used for the glory of Gods not the glory of Man. The Thu'um can be used in battle but in times of true need, not selfish ambitions.
The way of the voice was founded after massive defeat. How does tradition become tradition? It happens over time.
A long-established custom or belief that has been passed on in this way.
The Way of the Voice occurred during the First Era. It became tradition. While it doesn't mean it is the only tradition since the voice is very old and goes before the Greybeards. Many years have passed since Tiber Septim was General Talos. That type of Thu'um is forbidden. The Greybeards are greatly respected, considering they were used to broker a truce between the Stormcloaks and Imperials, they must have some sway.
It would have only been insulting to the Greybeards, I don't think every Nord knows about the Way of the Voice. The problem people may have is that it wasn't considered honorable, be like a gun to a knife fight.
Nords value honor in battle. Key word,
honor.
"If they had their way, you'd do nothing but sit up on their mountain with them and talk to the sky, or whatever it is they do. The Greybeards are so afraid of power that they won't use it. Think about it. Have they tried to stop the civil war, or done anything about Alduin? No. And they're afraid of you, of your power. Trust me, there's no need to be afraid. Think of Tiber Septim. Do you think he'd have founded the Empire if he'd listened to the Greybeards?" - Delphine
The Greybeards do not force the Dragonborn onto the path of the Way of the Voice. I also believe there is a reference somewhere that the Greybeards sent Talos south into Cyrodiil on his path to rule Tamriel. While that could be myth, it is certainly clear that the Greybeards do not force the way of the voice onto those with the Dragon blood.
Is there actually anything Nordic you even support? You have claimed in many posts about defending tradition, except you're basically against everything Nordic.
The use of Thu'um by the Nords predates the Greybeards and Jurgen Windcaller. The Tongues were traditionally taught to use it in warfare and the fact that Tiber Septim used it and was revered by the Nords runs counter to the notion that Jurgen Windcaller's way is the only way respected by the Nords.
The Greybeards seem to be detached from the world. I don't think every Nord seems to know all that much about Greybeards anymore. They respect them greatly but very few are allowed inside their temple.
I would say Nords seem to revere the Thu'um which they wouldn't have been able to use or even see for quite sometime before Tiber Septim used it. The way of the voice would have been the standard for a long time until Tiber Septim came along, that seeing it first hand would appear quite amazing to them.
I've found when I shout in game, they reference the Greybeards to shouting. "Like the Greybeards on their mountain!" Or something like that, they respect the Greybeards but I don't think every Nord is instructed in the Way of the Voice or even know too much about it. The Greybeards live in solitude on their mountain.
